Clusterheadaches.com Message Board


    
      
        Clusterheadaches.com Message Board
        (http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi)
      

        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies >> clove cigarettes and red bull
        
(Message started by: lgodm on Oct 23^rd, 2006, 11:22pm)

Title: clove cigarettes and red bull
Post by lgodm on Oct 23^rd, 2006, 11:22pm

Hi,

I am currently in cycle (for a year it has been exactly every two months, 7-10 days, always at 7 PM, next at about 11 PM and towards the end 2 PM).

This cycle I have now successfully prevented two days worth of attacks by immediately drinking half a red bull and smoking a djarum clove cigarette.

I think I've read elsewhere that cigarettes are bad for CH sufferers. I don't know if it's because of the type of cigarette I am smoking...
Any thoughts? If anyone else decides to try this odd combination please let me know!

Title: Re: clove cigarettes and red bull
Post by andrewjb on Oct 23^rd, 2006, 11:26pm

:). hello igodm, ied try almost anythin but not red bull. too many chemicles. andrew.

Title: Re: clove cigarettes and red bull
Post by floridian on Oct 24^th, 2006, 12:02pm

Clove is a good local anaesthetic - dentists once used it to numb the teeth and gums. Not sure if that is having an effect here - could be.

Eugenol in cloves is an calcium channel blocker, and also works on the potassium channels. Definitely avoid drinking pure clove oil - it is toxic in those doses.

Title: Re: clove cigarettes and red bull
Post by Linda_Howell on Oct 24^th, 2006, 12:10pm

Quote:

I think I've read elsewhere that cigarettes are bad for CH sufferers.

Cigarettes are bad for ANYONE, if you talking about being a trigger for CH? Then no, it isn't, or at least that is the general consensus.

One of these days I AM going to stop smoking.. :-/

Title: Re: clove cigarettes and red bull
Post by seasonalboomer on Oct 24^th, 2006, 12:23pm

if that's getting you through, good on you!

smoking is no worse for CH'ers than anyone else. and no better either!

Title: Re: clove cigarettes and red bull
Post by Redd715 on Oct 24^th, 2006, 12:57pm

on 10/24/06 at 12:02:12, floridian wrote:

Clove is a good local anaesthetic - dentists once used it to numb the teeth and gums. Not sure if that is having an effect here - could be.

Eugenol in cloves is an calcium channel blocker, and also works on the potassium channels. Definitely avoid drinking pure clove oil - it is toxic in those doses.

I was a single full time Mom, full time college student in the middle of a bitter divorce when a fellow student introduced me to Sampwerna (sp) clove cigsduring my first round of "finals" exams when I was wound up tighter than a two dollar watch. I was told they has a calming effect.

I found that indeed they did have a calming effect, and i'm curious if the properties of cloves, when smoked, acts sort of like a central nervous system calming agent, much as the oil acts to numb nerves when applied directly?

I hadn't smoked them in years but I had been having a few real stressful weeks at work and there is a smoke shop just down the way from the office, so I picked up a pack and indeed, when I was feeling very stressed out it did once again have the same calming effect.

I'd wager a guess that for those of us who already smoke, it may help to curb in the anxiety over the CH. Do I think it would be a preventive or abortive? Can't say for anyone else, but I saw no connection with actual hits or shadows at all. Only a noticable improvement in overall anxiety levels.

Title: Re: clove cigarettes and red bull
Post by floridian on Oct 24^th, 2006, 2:51pm

Some Chai teas have cloves in them, and you can always add extra - I would suggest building up to 1/8 tsp. or 1/4 of cloves per cup, maybe 3 cups a day maximum.

http://earthnotes.tripod.com/clove.htm

Title: Re: clove cigarettes and red bull
Post by Redd715 on Oct 24^th, 2006, 4:19pm

on 10/24/06 at 14:51:17, floridian wrote:

Flo,

Would you think my theory of the smoked clove oils having a sort of mild central nervous system sedative effect holds any merit, or is it simply more likely the power of suggestion?

Title: Re: clove cigarettes and red bull
Post by floridian on Oct 24^th, 2006, 5:10pm

Could be - I did some preliminary digging and found a few references to eugenol/cloves and anxiety - it wasn't strong evidence, but it hasn't been scrutinized.

Title: Re: clove cigarettes and red bull
Post by Beastfodder on Oct 25^th, 2006, 8:12am

Oh my God - clove cigarettes it's years since I smoked one.

D'you still get the random snap crackles and pops when inhaling them?

Red Bull's something I've taken too this cycle as well. After all the O2 you need a drink to get rid of the dry mouth. Seemed to help, but it's not that useful since most of my hits are nocturnal.

Shall really have to hook up some water for my O2 tank sometime soon...

Title: Re: clove cigarettes and red bull
Post by Carl_D on Oct 27^th, 2006, 6:54am

I can't do Red Bull due to the Verapamil, but will be getting a pack of Bali Hi clove cigs today.

Peace, and thanks for the tip.
Carl D

Title: Re: clove cigarettes and red bull
Post by kcopelin on Oct 27^th, 2006, 7:44pm

Ya know, clove cigs could be just the thing I need to calm my butt down AND stop smoking. Gonna give it a try...can't hurt (much)-
Thanks for the tip!!!
kathy

Title: Re: clove cigarettes and red bull
Post by Redd715 on Oct 27^th, 2006, 10:26pm

Please report back if you experience anything. It's not mind numbing, no altered state of conciousness. LOL

As I said, all I've found was an anxiety relieveing effect.

Title: Re: clove cigarettes and red bull
Post by kcopelin on Oct 28^th, 2006, 3:48am

So, I stopped at the local store to purchase some clove cigs. Guy behind the counter says-you know about these doncha? I said-heard they might have a calming effect and help headaches. He said-no I mean the bleeding lung thing. I said:

http://bestsmileys.com/scared/3.gif

I think I'll pass on this one

PFDAN
kathy

Title: Re: clove cigarettes and red bull
Post by BigCoffinHunter on Oct 30^th, 2006, 1:06pm

Is there actually any evidence for that, or is that just something that 'everyone knows', which usually means it's false?

Title: Re: clove cigarettes and red bull
Post by kcopelin on Oct 30^th, 2006, 8:05pm

I don't know...the research I did indicated that they are "worse" for you than regular cigarettes-but nothing about bleeding lungs...
I'm rethinking it-pretty sure one or two wouldn't hurt
kathy

Title: Re: clove cigarettes and red bull
Post by Redd715 on Oct 30^th, 2006, 10:35pm

I wouldn't recommend switching brands or anything... [smiley=laugh.gif]

All I've ever bought them for was to have one occasionaly throughout the day if I'm really stressed, instead of my normal Misty Menthol. Maybe 3-4 a day.

Title: Re: clove cigarettes and red bull
Post by floridian on Oct 30^th, 2006, 11:26pm

Like mint/menthol, cloves are anaesthetic. So a person could inhale deeper and feel less of the burn.

This was the only article that sounded anything like the bloody lungs warning. Clove in tea probably doesn't have that side effect.

Quote:

: JAMA. 1988 Dec 23-30;260(24):3641-4. Links
Evaluation of the health hazard of clove cigarettes. Council on Scientific Affairs.

[No authors listed]

Resolution 43 (1987 Annual Meeting), adopted by the House of Delegates, resolved that the American Medical Association study the dangers associated with clove cigarettes, that policy recommendations regarding regulation of clove and other tobacco additives be developed, and that this information be made available to physicians and the public. Clove cigarettes are tobacco products. They therefore possess all the hazards associated with smoking all-tobacco cigarettes. In addition, inhaling clove cigarette smoke has been associated with severe lung injury in a few susceptible individuals with prodromal respiratory infection. Some individuals with normal respiratory tracts have apparently suffered aspiration pneumonitis as the result of a diminished gag reflex induced by a local anesthetic action of eugenol (the active component of cloves), which is volatilized into the smoke. The American Medical Association has an existing policy vigorously opposing the use of any tobacco product; no exemption from this policy is made for clove-containing cigarettes.

PMID: 3057254 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Title: Re: clove cigarettes and red bull
Post by kcopelin on Oct 31^st, 2006, 9:30am

Thanks Floridian...are you a professional researcher? Seriously, I'm pretty good at finding info, but you are the "bomb" as they say. Thanks!
kathy