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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies >> Question for litium users and others
        
(Message started by: FramCire on Oct 20th, 2006, 6:39pm)
Title: Question for litium users and others
Post by FramCire on Oct 20th, 2006, 6:39pm
I am up to 600mg (2x300mg daily) and the severity of the Headaches are lower but the pain in my jaw that accompanies it doesn't seem to be much less.  Has anyone else had this where the HA pain is reduced but the nerve pain in jaw isn't effected.

I had 2 ONBs and now I know they were working for a little over a week as each time I thought something else was working util thge ONb wore off.

I think Ill be at 900 (2x300 at evening meal and 1x300 mornign meal) soon if this keeps up.

Sadly I have found that vicodin helps the jaw pain a bit but I really want to avoid taking it too much.
Title: Re: Question for litium users and others
Post by Guiseppi on Oct 20th, 2006, 8:07pm
I take 1200 mg lithium a day, I'm male, 46, weigh 190. Lithium either stops the headache, or doesn't. It doesn't lessen the headches, it's an all or nothing deal for me. I get the jaw pain with my headaches but with the lithium on board I get neither the headache or the jaw pain. Might need to kick the dosage up. I assume you are doing the blood draws as it's important to monitor your lithium levels. Wishing you pain free times ahead.

Guiseppi
Title: Re: Question for litium users and others
Post by FramCire on Oct 20th, 2006, 9:29pm

on 10/20/06 at 20:07:41, Guiseppi wrote:
I take 1200 mg lithium a day, I'm male, 46, weigh 190. Lithium either stops the headache, or doesn't. It doesn't lessen the headches, it's an all or nothing deal for me. I get the jaw pain with my headaches but with the lithium on board I get neither the headache or the jaw pain. Might need to kick the dosage up. I assume you are doing the blood draws as it's important to monitor your lithium levels. Wishing you pain free times ahead.

Guiseppi


Just drew my first blood Tuesday.  I think we'll be bumping it up next week to 900.

Is it all or nothing for everyone else??
Title: Re: Question for litium users and others
Post by Mr. Happy on Oct 20th, 2006, 10:06pm

on 10/20/06 at 21:29:41, FramCire wrote:
Is it all or nothing for everyone else??

There was a good take on Lithium Pulsing (http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=medsarchive2005;action=display;num=1105293621) a while ago. It's something to read.

What's an ONB?
Hap
Title: Re: Question for litium users and others
Post by Not4Hire on Oct 20th, 2006, 10:21pm
...occipital nerve block... ya putz

ya poseur...

ya pfisherman...

ya.... (ain't nobody stickin' shit in my head but ME...)

...resume forward motion: all ahead full...
Title: Re: Question for litium users and others
Post by FramCire on Oct 21st, 2006, 10:21am

on 10/20/06 at 22:21:58, Not4Hire wrote:
...occipital nerve block... ya putz

ya poseur...

ya pfisherman...

ya.... (ain't nobody stickin' shit in my head but ME...)

...resume forward motion: all ahead full...




I have got 14 days of much reduced pain thanks to 2 ONBs done by a pain management Dr I trust.

I hate needles of any kind but this was well worth it.
Title: Re: Question for litium users and others
Post by burnt-toast on Oct 22nd, 2006, 8:23am
300mg of Lithium Carbonate provided my first break after an initial two years of constant attacks.  

After that first short break, Lithimum Carbonate alone was no longer effective and we added Verapamil to the mix.  I'm now @ 1200mg Lithium Carbonate and 720mg Verapamil daily.

The combination does not prevent attacks.  It only reduces frequency and severity.  Skipping a dose and recently attempting to cut back proved their value in helping manage my symptoms.  In my case an attack is an attack with pain in all the common places.  

For whatever reason this combination sometimes looses the battle to CH.  A two week Prednisone taper once and sometimes twice a year is necessary when this occurs and attacks usually return to managable levels.      

The nerve pain in your jaw may be symptoms of CH attacks or possibly something else if it's a constant problem.  You weren't specific but if the pain is constant you may want to have a neuro. look into it as a problem that may be unrelated to your CH.  

Best wishes,

Tom
Title: Re: Question for litium users and others
Post by FramCire on Oct 22nd, 2006, 9:01am

on 10/22/06 at 08:23:55, burnt-toast wrote:
300mg of Lithium Carbonate provided my first break after an initial two years of constant attacks.  

After that first short break, Lithimum Carbonate alone was no longer effective and we added Verapamil to the mix.  I'm now @ 1200mg Lithium Carbonate and 720mg Verapamil daily.

The combination does not prevent attacks.  It only reduces frequency and severity.  Skipping a dose and recently attempting to cut back proved their value in helping manage my symptoms.  In my case an attack is an attack with pain in all the common places.  

For whatever reason this combination sometimes looses the battle to CH.  A two week Prednisone taper once and sometimes twice a year is necessary when this occurs and attacks usually return to managable levels.      

The nerve pain in your jaw may be symptoms of CH attacks or possibly something else if it's a constant problem.  You weren't specific but if the pain is constant you may want to have a neuro. look into it as a problem that may be unrelated to your CH.  

Best wishes,

Tom



Tom,

You may want to talk to your pharmasist or doctor.  My doctor said there is a possible problem taking verap with lithium.  He tapered me off of verapamil when he gave me the lithium (I am at 300 twice a day).  I am not an expert but my doctor is a headache specialist and he perscribes lithium and verap (not at the same time I guess) quite a bit for clusters.

The jaw pain only comes with a headache, so I am fairly certain it is related.  I am not saying that is 100%, but when the headache is gone, so is the jaw pain.

THANK YOU ALL for your input.
Title: Re: Question for litium users and others
Post by burnt-toast on Oct 22nd, 2006, 10:34am
Lithium Carbonate and Verapamil are (as Jonny correctly puts it) the chronic's cocktail.

This combo is common and I found no warnings about combining them when researching these meds. before agreeing to take them.  

However, both are dangerous drugs and periodic blood levels/liver function testing is required.  My guess is that any of the numerous combos we are prescribed can be troublesome and new information is always surfacing.  I'll look into potential drug interactions of this combo again.  

Research, and risk vs. reward decisions are what we are unfortunately stuck with at the present time.

Best wishes,

Tom

     
Title: Re: Question for litium users and others
Post by nani on Oct 22nd, 2006, 11:23am

on 10/22/06 at 10:34:48, burnt-toast wrote:
Lithium Carbonate and Verapamil are (as Jonny correctly puts it) the chronic's cocktail.

This combo is common and I found no warnings about combining them when researching these meds. before agreeing to take them.  

However, both are dangerous drugs and periodic blood levels/liver function testing is required.  My guess is that any of the numerous combos we are prescribed can be troublesome and new information is always surfacing.  I'll look into potential drug interactions of this combo again.  

Research, and risk vs. reward decisions are what we are unfortunately stuck with at the present time.

Best wishes,

Tom


Ditto. Lith and verap are used quite often. I had a really hard time with lithium, and couldn't get over 300 mgs a day though. Even at that low dose, the combo helped me a little, for a while, anyway.
Title: Re: Question for litium users and others
Post by BB on Oct 22nd, 2006, 12:59pm

Verapamil and Lithium are fine to be used together, but like anything else, they work for some and not for others or they work some times and then stop all of the sudden.

My husband was put on this combo but had to stop the Lithium due to shakiness , not just tremor, but actual shaking of the hands, most annoying !

Others have had excellent results with it.

Annette
Title: Re: Question for litium users and others
Post by Pinkfloyd on Oct 22nd, 2006, 1:36pm

on 10/22/06 at 12:59:42, BB wrote:
Verapamil and Lithium are fine to be used together,
Annette


There are some possible problems with the two being used together. Verapamil can have a significant effect on smooth muscle organs and adding anything the the mix per se, can have increased effects.
Verapamil also reduces lithium serum levels and can have a drastic effect in lithium therapy. Sometimes, increasing, sometimes decreasing the effectiveness of the lithium dose. So....lithium levels should be monitored much more closely when combined with verapamil.


on 10/22/06 at 12:59:42, BB wrote:
My husband was put on this combo but had to stop the Lithium due to shakiness , not just tremor, but actual shaking of the hands, most annoying !
Annette


Was possibly/probably caused by the verapamil increasing the effects of the lithium. Reducing the verapamil dose may have helped this "lithium" problem.

On the other hand (no pun intended) it may not have been as annoying, had he placed his hands in the right places.. ;-)
One man's annoyance can be another's pleasure ;-)

All in all though, it IS an effective mix for many...especially chronics and for many, not a problem. Whatever floats your boat, but, there can be problems as with anything else and people need to be careful. Especially one's with other underlying health problems (heart, liver etc)

Bobw
Title: Re: Question for litium users and others
Post by FramCire on Oct 22nd, 2006, 2:49pm
Thanks for the expertise in responce to my "warning" about verap and lithium.  I guess any decent doctor will be checking blood levels (my doc checked lithium level and thyroid function) when on lithium and/or verapomil anyway.

And thanks for the insight on lithium.  I am up to 600mg and I get the feeling when I call in next week, he'll bump it up to 900.
Title: Re: Question for litium users and others
Post by FramCire on Oct 24th, 2006, 8:06pm
I had a pain free day!!!!!!  Holy (*@##)'n crap.

I was going to ask about upping the lithium today but I had 24 hours PF and then got a VERY VERY light shadow.  Since then zip.

Anyway, I don't care what happens tonight.  Last 24 hours were awesome!!!!  Yes, I do care but 1 PF day has really helped my spirits.  Thank you lithium (if that's you)

Thanks to everyone!!!

Eric
Title: Re: Question for litium users and others
Post by E-Double on Oct 24th, 2006, 8:31pm
[smiley=thumb.gif]
Title: Re: Question for litium users and others
Post by BB on Oct 24th, 2006, 8:42pm

Thats wonderful news Framcire,

Many more to come and keep comming ...

So happy for ya  :)

Annette
Title: Re: Question for litium users and others
Post by burnt-toast on Oct 26th, 2006, 5:31am
Glad to hear the good news.  Amazing what a PF day can do for us.

Tom


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