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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies >> psilocybin theory
        
(Message started by: youngmichael on Oct 3^rd, 2006, 7:23pm)

Title: psilocybin theory
Post by youngmichael on Oct 3^rd, 2006, 7:23pm

Okay, so not much is known about why cluster headaches seem to be aborted and even prevented with psilocybin and other indole ring halucinogens.....so let me offer up a theory, and pose a question. Please understand, before I begin, that I want a cure...period.

So what I am suggesting is that the curative effects of psilocybin may in fact be caused by something other than a chemical process. During my last cycle at about this time last year I took two doses of psilocybin, and there was a marked change in my headaches. They didn't go right away...but it was the shortest cycle in the last 6 years. This could have been a result of any number of things, so I'm not totally convinced that the cycle was aborted due to the drugs.

After the initial 2 small doses, I dosed again.....let's call this one a "BIG" dose. I have to admit, these were partially for my impending cycle and also out of a growing curiosity with the "other benefits" I experienced.

With my 3rd experience, I took 7 dried grams in the privacy of my home....alone with nothing but my thoughts to keep me company. It was the single most incredible and scary experience of my life, and I was utterly changed forever. I realised on an experiential level the way in which I had been attaching to the material world and suffering because of it.....it was akin to Kensho in zen i think, an awakening. Psilocybin has a way of stripping the ego away for a time it seems. According to Mckenna, "psycadelics force the maturation process by disolving boundaries", and I believe that is exactly what happened.

So, what if this kind of maturation heals the body. Deepak Chopra says, "You can free yourself from aging by reinterpreting your body and by grasping the link between belief and biology". Is it a stretch to say that a person that loves their life and feels great is going to live more healthfully...possibly free of clusters?

Lately I have been meditating almost daily, and I feel so calm and at peace as a result.......and I've been thinking. I really wonder if any clusterheads meditate daily. So, if anyone out there does meditate every day and still suffers from clusters, I would really be interested to hear from you. The reason I ask is that it appears to me like psilocybin and meditation are both good at stripping the ego and dealing with the "true self". If my theory about psychadelics is at all right it would make sense that meditation would help as well.

Thanks for reading. I hope to hear from anyone who has anything to add. :)

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by vig on Oct 3^rd, 2006, 7:55pm

as long as it's working, GREAT!!!!

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by Redd715 on Oct 3^rd, 2006, 9:36pm

I'll have to say, that the last year has been a rough raod for me with this therapy. Not sure if it has been just a particularly bad CH year, or if my timing has been off on my doses. No one ever really knows. I had a very welcome streach of 20 days PF, and I antisipate more after this recent dose.

Clusterbusters was and is the only method that has given me any measureable freedom from this hell, without the side effects of mainstreem meds.

Please keep us posted.

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by BikerBob on Oct 4^th, 2006, 3:02am

Interesting theory...

It is both a chemical process and a maturation process...

Triptans (sumatriptan, zolmatriptan, etc.) are synthesized indole-ring compounds very similar to psilocybin, but with the hallucinogenic inducing effects stripped out. That's why triptans can abort a CH attack but not a CH episode or chronic CH condition.

See the indole-ring foundations of sumatriptan and psilocybin?

Sumatriptan:
http://static.flickr.com/86/260448168_dcd72298b2_m.jpg

Psilocybin:
http://static.flickr.com/122/260448169_94de173bbc_m.jpg

Although very similar, sumatriptan is more dangerous than psilocybin.

The maturation process is a bit more difficult to explain:

http://www.rinf.com/columnists/news/entheogen-awakening-the-divine-within

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2006/08/04/notes080406.DTL

BB

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by BB on Oct 4^th, 2006, 8:09am

With psychedelic effects of chemicals such as psilocybin or LSD ( same chemical structures ) the outcomes depend a lot of how stable and already mature the person using it is. Using it the wrong way or in an unstable person can cause disastrous effects.

Triptans, Sansert, Deseril, Ergotamins, Dihydergot etc ... were all derivatives from LSD which was accidentally found by Dr Albert Hoffmann in 1938.

LSD was used extensively in the medical field in the 50s and 60s to treat all sorts of medical illnesses from schizophrenia to bipolar with a lot of success. However, in the hands of Dr Tim Leary, it was slowly turned into a drug of abuse which saw Dr Leary being bannished from a professor position and stripped of his medical registration.

LSD was then outlawed as its psychedelic effects were getting out of hand when used by the wrong person.

The effects were found to be profoundly "soul finding" to some and lead to a better life, yet could cause manic episodes and suicides in others.

There seems to be some links between conditions such as bipolar, schizophrenia and clusters as medications for one appear to work for another. Yet no one knows exactly how they work.

It may be related to the functions of the hypothalamus which controls many hormones and neurotransmitters, many of those are involved in creating and maintaining human emotions such as adrenaline, dopamine, serotonin and melatonin.

In clusters, apart from the anatomical effects such as droopy eyelid and trigeminal pain, there are more subtled changes in the sufferers bodily functions including appetite, sleeping patterns and even emotions.

The changes in emotions are more subtled, ranging from depression to anxiety to anger to frustration ..., and I believe that not all the changes are related purely to pain or lack of sleep.

There is evidence to actual personality changes in a cluster person especially during a cycle. What I have noticed and observed is that how much or how big is this change depends on how mature and emotionally stable the person is normally outside of cluster.

Extremely interesting areas for research and the searches continue...

Annette

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by Bob P on Oct 4^th, 2006, 9:48am

Quote:

Triptans (sumatriptan, zolmatriptan, etc.) are synthesized indole-ring compounds very similar to psilocybin, but with the hallucinogenic inducing effects stripped out. That's why triptans can abort a CH attack but not a CH episode or chronic CH condition.

So we have discovered that the hallucinogenic part of the compund is what aborts cycles?

Quote:

Triptans, Sansert, Deseril, Ergotamins, Dihydergot etc ... were all derivatives from LSD which was accidentally found by Dr Albert Hoffmann in 1938.

Ergotamine isn't a derivative of LSD. Ergotamine was first formulated in 1918 by A. Stoll.

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by kcopelin on Oct 4^th, 2006, 10:12am

Youngmichael,
Never stop questioning,probing, there are mysteries unfound still.
Your question seemed to be: "Do any clusterheads meditate daily and yet still suffer?"
I pray deeply everyday. Having practiced meditation in the past, I can tell you that the prayer state is even deeper. Have been having my daily time with God for a few years. Some days I get distraced by waves and wind and the voices of all who "need" me, but mostly, I go to that place where my full relaxed focus is on the One who created me. This is not the "thanks for this food Lord" hastily muttered before eating.
So I reach the state induced by meditation through prayer daily. Now the second, and more difficult, part of your question. "and still suffer".
I do not suffer. I have chronic CHs that are daily-with no pain free days in months (19). But I choose not to suffer. Not anymore. Nor am I some passive victim of my biology. I have a dodgy hypothalumus but God didn't put me here to wallow in that, He doesn't make mistakes. So, I am a victor. Everyday I deal with this condition, and still get something done that makes even one person smile, that inspires, encourages, that strengthens, that educates, that brings glory to God-that is a good day. And every day that I've spent too much time sucking O2, or complaining about my pain, and bringing worry and stress to the ones I love...well there's always tomorrow, there's always grace and there is always forgiveness and there is always faith.
Hope this addressed at least part of your question.
Be well my friends, and don't forget the miracles all around you.
PFDAN
kathy

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by BB on Oct 4^th, 2006, 10:41am

on 10/04/06 at 09:48:36, Bob P wrote:

Ergotamine isn't a derivative of LSD. Ergotamine was first formulated in 1918 by A. Stoll.

Thank you very much , my mistake.

Ergotamine is from ergot, and LSD is also from ergot, which is a fungus grown on rye.

Annette

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by BB on Oct 4^th, 2006, 10:44am

on 10/04/06 at 10:12:49, kcopelin wrote:

So, I am a victor. Everyday I deal with this condition, and still get something done that makes even one person smile, that inspires, encourages, that strengthens, that educates, that brings glory to God-that is a good day. And every day that I've spent too much time sucking O2, or complaining about my pain, and bringing worry and stress to the ones I love...well there's always tomorrow, there's always grace and there is always forgiveness and there is always faith.

PFDAN
kathy

That is absolutely beautiful Kathy ! Love it ! :-*

Annette

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by rickyshot on Oct 4^th, 2006, 2:28pm

What a great thread. I find it profound. I too use seeds and shrooms and for the first time have hope. This cycle has been completely different and short with little hits that were taken care of quickly.

I would not use 7 grams I am too chicken but on a difficult day I ate a 5 gram chocolate shroom and did not have any effects whatsoever except the pain dissolved and it has been five days since with no ch but a minor migraine in my ear. I suffer chronic complicated migraines and they are harder to bust than the ch for me but they are responding to the LSD.

I pray daily and have faith in God. Why I am not 'healed" I don't know but HIs grace is sufficient for me. I quote that scripture a lot when in cycle and the one Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him.

When I was young I never thought I would be taking LSD for sure. Never say never. I never used any illegal drug of any kind. I won't get into the diatribe and politrics of drugs , economy, ethics and legalities but suffice to say God created everything and there are medicinal purposes for every herb etc. Yes some could be dangerous in the wrong hands and abused but there will always be a population who will abuse anything for a high or other purposes. You can't throw out the baby with the bathwater. I do believe answers are out there. There are answers for everything but sometimes we don't like the fact we have to do the work. We want a quick fix.

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by BikerBob on Oct 4^th, 2006, 4:09pm

on 10/04/06 at 08:09:53, Annette wrote:

Using it the wrong way or in an unstable person can cause disastrous effects.

The effects were found to be profoundly "soul finding" to some and lead to a better life, yet could cause manic episodes and suicides in others.

What is your source on information about disastrous effects and suicides related to LSD? I've read that of the tens of thousands of people who have used LSD, there has been one death, a suicide at Esalen in the 1960s.

BB

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by seasonalboomer on Oct 4^th, 2006, 4:13pm

you guys are going to confuse me if you get into an argument.
BB will be posting and signing as Annette, her quotes will appear to be from Annette but being argued against by BB, or BikerBob.........

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by Margi on Oct 4^th, 2006, 4:14pm

THANK you Scott!! I thought I was the only one scratching my head here. First we have two Kings of Pain, now we've got two BB's. What next? Two Jonny's?

I think you're pretty safe with 'seasonalbloomer' though...I gotta tell ya, that's a weird ass name, man - I doubt there would ever be two people who could come up with it. ;)

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by BikerBob on Oct 4^th, 2006, 4:21pm

on 10/04/06 at 16:13:02, seasonalboomer wrote:

you guys are going to confuse me if you get into an argument.
BB will be posting and signing as Annette, her quotes will appear to be from Annette but being argued against by BB, or BikerBob.........

Get used to it. I was BB first and won't change my signature because several parts of clusterbusters.com were written by and attributed to BB (BikerBob).

BB

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by youngmichael on Oct 4^th, 2006, 4:28pm

Thank you all for your responses.

Redd715: That's very true. I mean, I only took meds once and the side effects were so bad that I swore I wouldn't do it again. With psilocybin, and possiblely these other hallucinogens, there are minimal if any side effects what-so-ever at the sub dose. That's pretty amazing if you ask me.

Biker Bob: It makes a lot of sense to me that it would be a combination.....which makes me think that we have an astounding argument for more research.

By the way, those links were great. I would like to see the full documentary.

Kathy: I really appreciate your post. It is so inspiring to hear from someone with CH who is so optimistic and empowered. Thank you so much.

Oh and the prayer, that's great. If anyone else does, please post. I didn't think of it at the time, but i think it is very relevant to my question.

Thanks all.

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by Jonny on Oct 4^th, 2006, 4:30pm

on 10/04/06 at 16:14:33, Margi wrote:

What next? Two Jonny's?

I can assure you that will never ever happen....LOL ;;D

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by Margi on Oct 4^th, 2006, 4:33pm

on 10/04/06 at 16:30:28, Jonny wrote:

I can assure you that will never ever happen....LOL ;;D

LMAO I'm betting you're right. ;)

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by Jonny on Oct 4^th, 2006, 4:39pm

on 10/04/06 at 16:33:39, Margi wrote:

LMAO I'm betting you're right. ;)

I figured you would say "Thank God, ones enough"....LOL ;;D

Sorry for the highjack, folks....Carry on ;)

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by Margi on Oct 4^th, 2006, 4:48pm

on 10/04/06 at 16:39:14, Jonny wrote:

I figured you would say "Thank God, ones enough"....LOL ;;D

LOL Isn't the backspace key a wonderful thing? :D

You're right - sorry for the hijack - couldn't resist ragging on Jonny.

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by thebbz on Oct 4^th, 2006, 9:10pm

;;D
You all can dig this. My name is John Bebee. I have signed off as BB. I have done this my whole life. I changed it to jb out of respect for my friend Biker Bob. BB is my name. Now for the first name, John,Johnny,Jonny. One is enough. [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif]
And now back to your positions.
jb ;)

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by BB on Oct 4^th, 2006, 9:56pm

on 10/04/06 at 16:09:30, BikerBob wrote:

Hi BikerBob,

The source is from the publication " LSD - my problem child " by Dr Hoffmann.

Regarding suicide, I believe that there has been only one reported as directely caused by LSD. The main problem with LSD causing it to be banned was that it became an abused hallucinogen with deemed dangerous psychotic effects.

Regarding the name, I have always signed as Annette and not BB. When I registered, the user name BB was available.

Bob and I are not having an arguement, Bob is just trying to make my posts more clear and accurate, for which I thank him very much.

Annette

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by BikerBob on Oct 4^th, 2006, 10:58pm

Hi Annette,

I read Hoffman's book too. First you say LSD causes disastrous effects and suicides, then you agree with me that there has only been one. Now you say LSD has "deemed dangerous psychotic effects". What is your evidence of dangerous psychotic effects and what percentage of LSD users experience them?

Some of your comments remind me of the 1936 film Reefer Madness...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reefer_Madness

BB

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by Jonny on Oct 4^th, 2006, 11:03pm

on 10/04/06 at 22:58:17, BikerBob wrote:

Now you say LSD has "deemed dangerous psychotic effects".

It dont?

Wheres your proof it dont? ;)

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by Pinkfloyd on Oct 5^th, 2006, 2:01am

on 10/04/06 at 23:03:42, Jonny wrote:

Wheres your proof it dont? ;)

I was going to say, all the ex-hippies from the 60s that are now running giant corporations, or in politics.....and then figured those aren't very good references :(

BoB

BTW< Ricky...just so not to confuse.....LSD and psilocybin from mushrooms, although both psychedelics, are not the same thing. Similar, but different.
Happy to hear of your (and the other's) recent success.

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by BB on Oct 5^th, 2006, 2:17am

on 10/04/06 at 22:58:17, BikerBob wrote:

Hi BikerBob

You have read Hoffmans book and you dont think that LSD has disatrous psychotic effects if used in the wrong way by the wrong hand ?

Are you saying that LSD is a safe drug to be used by all?

You are entitled to whatever point of view you so choose and I respect that. My view is that LSD is an amazing substance with a lot of potentials but it can cause a lot of damage if used wrongly for the wrong reasons.

This the link to Hoffmans book :

http://www.psychedelic-library.org/child.htm

Anyone interested may read and decide for themselves.

Painfree wishes to all.

Annette

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by LeeS on Oct 5^th, 2006, 7:14am

Interesting theory Youngmichael. I think that it's mainly the medicinal effects of the active constituents within alternative medication that cause efficacy, but it makes intuitive sense to me that something else is happening that no one really knows about. As you say, there is an astounding argument for more research here.

on 10/04/06 at 08:09:53, BB wrote:

... were all derivatives from LSD which was accidentally found by Dr Albert Hoffmann in 1938.

Hi Annette :)
Please note that LSD wasn't strictly found by accident:

Quote:

Time and again I hear or read that LSD was discovered by accident. This is only partly true. LSD came into being within a systematic research program, and the "accident" did not occur until much later: when LSD was already five years old, I happened to experience its unforeseeable effects in my own body—or rather, in my own mind.
Source: LSD — My Problem Child: Albert Hofmann

I've had many an interesting debate as to the dangers of LSD and other entheogens, so here's one I prepared earlier (with help from others):

Quote:

It appears that the chief concern of the established medical profession in respect of the alternative treatment focuses on the potential long term adverse effects that these medications may have, particularly in terms of increased psychosis; however, it appears that no empirical evidence is available to confirm these concerns. Indeed, all available evidence suggests this not to be the case.

The second largest epidemiological study of LSD's contribution to mental illness was conducted in the early 1960s and reviewed a compilation of therapy studies including 44 psychiatric doctors representing almost 5,000 patients and 25,000 uses of LSD or mescaline ingested in controlled psychotherapy sessions. The researchers found the risk of psychosis lasting longer than 48 hours to be less than one half of one percent.

A larger study performed a decade later involving 49,500 psychedelic-assisted therapy sessions revealed like results of less than one percent. Similar results arose again more recently in 1998 when a medical team conducted a comprehensive review of 34 years of psychedelic research and concluded, "At present the literature tentatively suggests that there are few, if any, long term neuropsychological deficits attributable to long-term use."

In addition, the U.S. Army, which began extensive investigation into the effects of LSD on its soldiers in 1955, concluded "There has not been a single case of residual ill effect. Study of the prolific scientific literature on LSD-25 and personal communication between U.S. Army Chemical Corps personnel and other researchers in this field have failed to disclose an authentic instance of irreversible change being produced in normal humans by the drug."

Source: James Joseph: Psychedelic Perceptions

However, I think it's definitely worth reiterating and stressing here that these alternative treatments are not deemed suitable for all people. See:

http://www.clusterbusters.com/warning.htm

All the best with your quest Youngmichael.

-Lee

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by kcopelin on Oct 5^th, 2006, 7:53am

LSD, used recreationally, by someone who is psychologically unstable can have long term effects. I have a friend (this is not an urban legend) who still resides in the state hospital in Columbia SC some 25 years after his last trip. He calls my brother-who still lives in SC-, occassionally and babbles about the yellow submarine. He never came down. Wasn't "bad" acid, he already had a diagnosable mental illness called schizophrenia. The LSD merely made his disease much less treatable.
The brain...the mind....the line between the two. Fascinating stuff. Still, LSD and other hallucinogens (IMHO) should be used responsibly.
This thread is informative, and I very much appreciate the fact that people are disagreeing without being disagreeable. A mark of maturity and respect. Thanks.
PFDAN
kathy

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by Bob P on Oct 5^th, 2006, 11:13am

Quote:

ABSTRACTLysergic acid diethylamide (LSD) is considered as the primary drug of hallucinogen class. This is the first study to report on the effect of LSD abuse on ultra structure and electron transport chain enzyme activities of sperms of LSD users which aimed
to investigate the relationship between the sperm motility and mitochondrial electron transport chain enzymes activities in LSD users. The results showed that semen samples of LSD users (n = 15) have significantly lower sperm motility and lower activities of complexes I, II, III, IV and citrate synthase as compared with those of controls. Moreover, a direct and positive correlation was found in the whole population studied between spermatozoa motility and all the mitochondrial electron transport chain enzymes activities assayed (complexes I, II III, and IV). In addition, the ultra structure study of sperms revealed that LSD mainly induces degenerated mitochondrial sheath with large cytoplasmic droplets. In conclusion, LSD impairs sperm motility through its direct toxic effect on sperm mitochondria leading to decreased
mitochondrial energy production.

Looks like it'll give ya some slow swimmers though!

Quote:

Long-term effects
Some LSD users experience "flashbacks". They usually involve visual hallucinations from past acid trips, but can involve other senses like taste, smell, and touch. These flashbacks generally last a few seconds or minutes.
For people with psychological problems, LSD use can result in prolonged psychotic states.
Although rare, there have been reports of visual disturbances such as prolonged after-images caused by LSD.
Deaths from LSD overdose have never been reported. However, LSD has been implicated in suicides, accidental deaths, murders, and
self-inflicted wounds.
Some chronic heavy users of LSD show apathy, lack interest in the future, and are easily frustrated.
People who use drugs often can develop serious personal problems. Using drugs can become more important than family and friends. They may continue using even when their job or schoolwork is suffering, or when they run into financial, spiritual, or legal problems.
Young people who use drugs heavily may not learn how to solve problems, handle their emotions, and become mature, responsible adults.
When used by pregnant women, LSD may cause birth defects or miscarriages.

Quote:

A "bad trip" can be very upsetting with reactions lasting days.Users may feel depressed, disorientated and anxious. LSD can trigger acute mental illness.Flashbacks can also occur years later, with a return of the altered mental state in the absence of the drug. Tolerance develops but not physical dependency.With larger doses there is a risk of convulsions, coma, heart failure and death (110 deaths from LSD in the US in 1991). Another cause of death is accidents as a result of users misunderstanding what is going on - climbing out of a window to fly or "swimming" across a busy road for example.

This is from Globalfuture.com. Not sure where they get their facts.

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by youngmichael on Oct 5^th, 2006, 1:51pm

(110 deaths from LSD in the US in 1991).........I doubt this very much....

Erowid says there are only two deaths ever attributed to LSD.
http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_media2.shtml

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by Pinkfloyd on Oct 5^th, 2006, 11:25pm

on 10/05/06 at 11:13:28, Bob P wrote:

Looks like it'll give ya some slow swimmers though!
.

Maybe I should visit the Planned Parenthood site and seek out support?

on 10/05/06 at 11:13:28, Bob P wrote:

This is from Globalfuture.com. Not sure where they get their facts.

These facts? :-X

I believe this is a transcipt of an 1881 speech by Mary Hunt in front of the Women’s Christian Temperance Union. It was misquoted because the word "scotch" was mistakenly substituted with the initials LSD, which were the initials of Mary Hunt's estranged lesbian lover.
The transcript was being updated for a new D.A.R.E. program called "Government and Other Friends."

I got this info from Dennis Hastert's page in D.C. He can be trusted.

Bobw

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by Bob P on Oct 6^th, 2006, 12:11pm

Quote:

(110 deaths from LSD in the US in 1991).........I doubt this very much....

Erowid says there are only two deaths ever attributed to LSD.

You have read between the bias. Erowid is a drug site and references LSD overdose deaths.
The other site is an anti-drug site and references all deaths related to LSD.

At the doses recommended for treating CH you would probably not see either of these.

What I find interesting is the "flashback" effects of LSD which can happen long after taking the drug and the long term CH effects some get from LSD. Same mechanism?

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by youngmichael on Oct 6^th, 2006, 1:13pm

Okay, fair enough. But I thought psilocybin was the drug of choice for treating clusters, not LSD.

As far as psilocybin goes, there are no flashbacks, and it passes through the body more cleanly than alcohol from what I have heard. So I doubt there are any significant long term effects....I could of course be wrong, though.

BTW, "...and the long term CH effects some get from LSD."......what do you mean by this, Bob?

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by pattik on Oct 6^th, 2006, 2:57pm

on 10/06/06 at 13:13:07, youngmichael wrote:

Okay, fair enough. But I thought psilocybin was the drug of choice for treating clusters, not LSD.

It is, but the anecdotal evidence gathered so far from the Harvard researchers show that LSD is actually more effective that psilcybin.

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by tommyD on Oct 6^th, 2006, 10:07pm

LSD has long been thought to be the most effective of the tryptamines against clusters, but others - psilocybin and LSA - are recommended for practical and legal reasons.

As for the much over-hyped LSD flashbacks - they do happen, but (a) not very often and (b) they’re nothing to get too excited about. Those who experience them say they are not particularly upsetting or bothersome - generally just a pattern in the carpet or breathing draperies for a few seconds.

Are acid flashbacks and long-term cluster prevention related as to mechanism? Who knows how any of this works? They are very different kinds of phenomena. It seems to take a larger dose to cause the flashbacks, but in both cases, the phenomena persist/recur long after the LSD is metabolized out of the system.

-tommyD

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by pike on Oct 8^th, 2006, 6:36pm

Quote:

psilocybin and LSA - are recommended for practical and legal reasons.

I'm very curious: when talking about LSA, are we talking about Morning Glory seeds ? They're sold in every gardencentre around the country :-) But they need to be prepared correctly ofcourse. Or are we talking about some chemical form of LSA ?

curious,
*pike

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by andrewjb on Oct 8^th, 2006, 7:21pm

:). thanks for all the news, great to see free easy debate. thanks for all the knowledge.

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by nani on Oct 8^th, 2006, 9:08pm

on 10/08/06 at 18:36:03, pike wrote:

I'm very curious: when talking about LSA, are we talking about Morning Glory seeds ?

Read all about it here (look at the top right and read the LSA FAQs:
www.clusterbusters.com

Morning glory seeds are not the best choice, and NEVER use seeds that you can buy at garden centers...they're treated with nasty chemicals.
pain free wishes, nani

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by Chuffy on Oct 12^th, 2006, 6:07am

If anyone is interested I have just come out of an 8 week cluster period treating it with 1.5g of Cubensis every two weeks, I had no headaches to speak of apart from the ones I always seem to get the day after dosing. These were however so mild that I treated them with Red Bull and/or O2.

I love this stuff, it's changed my life, and funnily enough I haven't felt the urge jump off any buildings, as like a duck, if I thought I could fly, I'd take off from the ground first to check it out . ;)

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by Pinkfloyd on Oct 12^th, 2006, 12:49pm

on 10/12/06 at 06:07:27, Chuffy wrote:

If anyone is interested I have just come out of an 8 week cluster period treating it with 1.5g of Cubensis every two weeks,

Always interested Chuffy...thanks for the update.

It always baffled me...if someone thought they could fly...why walk up stairs to find out? ;;D

be well, stay well,
Bobw

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by Flash on Oct 12^th, 2006, 1:00pm

I'm guessing the 110 deaths involved some fairly tenuous linkage. If you took stats of road traffic fatalities and explored how many of the victims had ingested coffee within 6 months prior to the accident, then you could draw a unhealthy correlation between coffee and road deaths. But lets face it that would be crap too!

The people jumping out of buildings myth is drawn from 2 sources:

1) PCP. A reputed side effect of Angel Dust is believing that one had been invested with superhuman powers. I have no idea whether this is true or not, but if so then it's likely that press reports and secondhand news have accidentally attributed this to LSD.

2) The was a female student, can't remember her name, who commited suicide in the 1960s by jumping out her window. Her parents refused to believe that she was just another teenage suicide and were adamnet that something else must have cause her death. They blamed LSD because it makes people hallucinate so obviously that would cause someone to think they could fly... I mean stands to reason doesn't it? The toxiclogy report was negative for LSD. Her friends claimed no knowledge of her ever having taken LSD. The only people adament that she had taken LSD were the parents, and surely they'd be the last people to know. IMO it's more likely that her parents were the cause of the tragedy and that she'd never so much as glanced at LSD...

All this is from memory, but I'm sure someone can dig up the full story using Google.

As for flashbacks, my guess is that they a mythical. I've never had any, but I'll bet there's a few people who have NEVER taken any LSD that have experienced the same phenomenom. It's a side effect of having a brain.

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by BikerBob on Oct 12^th, 2006, 2:36pm

on 10/12/06 at 13:00:52, Flash wrote:

2) The was a female student, can't remember her name, who commited suicide in the 1960s by jumping out her window. Her parents refused to believe that she was just another teenage suicide and were adamnet that something else must have cause her death. They blamed LSD because it makes people hallucinate so obviously that would cause someone to think they could fly... I mean stands to reason doesn't it? The toxiclogy report was negative for LSD. Her friends claimed no knowledge of her ever having taken LSD. The only people adament that she had taken LSD were the parents, and surely they'd be the last people to know. IMO it's more likely that her parents were the cause of the tragedy and that she'd never so much as glanced at LSD...

All this is from memory, but I'm sure someone can dig up the full story using Google.

That was Art Linkletter's daughter. Here's the full story...

http://www.snopes.com/horrors/drugs/linkletter.asp

BB

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by Bob P on Oct 12^th, 2006, 5:29pm

100 isn't such a big number and it wouldn't surprise me at all to have that many trippin' people die in one year in the US. Heck, how many idiots get a snoot full of booze and get behind the wheel of a car each year only to kill themself and probably some innocent fool along with them. No surprise that 100 heads may do the same thing.

The main thing is that the dose for CH is probably no where what these people took ( if the number is right).

Hey Flash.

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by Flash on Oct 12^th, 2006, 6:51pm

Don't get me wrong though, a bad trip is a truel awful experience, and I've had a couple! Reckon I'd be much more likely to die of heart failure than jumping though LMAO! Provided the dose is kept at level 1 or less then the chances of a bad trip are very remote, unless the person is prone to REALLY bad panic attacks.

My trip mantra is:

I have nothing to fear but fear itself.

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by Carl1958 on Oct 14^th, 2006, 12:59am

on 10/12/06 at 06:07:27, Chuffy wrote:

like a duck, if I thought I could fly, I'd take off from the ground first to check it out . ;)

;;D ;;D ;;D..I have often wondered why I have never seen a Duck up a tree... ;;D ;;D

This will be my second christmas without the Beast joining me for the festivities...I was a Chronic sufferer...The Beast has graised me with his presence for the past 18 years...For me personally, meeting, & talking to sufferers who had chosen to treat there CH with Psilocybin, was the best thing that has ever happened to me.
Now I am not suppose to say this but, God I do enjoy the treatment, ;;D far more than I enjoyed 800mg of Verapamil each, & every day, & countless Imigran/Trex injections...

Over here in the UK we have our beloved National Health Service (NHS)
In 2004/2005 the cost for me as a patient to our beloved NHS was in access of £2'800, & thats not including Oxygen...

The cost to our beloved NHS for my treatment for the year 2005/2006 has been Zero...

The cost to me personally has been £12.00...

I think the drug companies should be made to wear a mask...Dick Turpin did. ;)

As for me....Well, I'm off to buy a hand Glider...Just in case.. ;)

CArl... 8)

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by youngmichael on Oct 16^th, 2006, 5:54pm

So far there hasn't been one person to respond and say they are a daily meditator and have ch. I find that very interesting. Not that I am drawing any conclusions just yet, but it makes me excited, that's for sure.

Here's what is going on with me...I have for the last two weeks felt the "effects"of the cycle that should be happening right now, but no headaches yet. The effects, just in case it is different for everyone, are that my sleeping patterns are different....i wake up during the night, remember more of my dreams, wake up earlier than usuall....I also have a tenseness, irritation, nervousness when i wake....this is the feeling i get right before a headache usually comes(it feels kinda like my heart is beating faster)....my skin is dryer than usual..I'm more thirsty....etc. 10 minutes after I wake I sit on my chair and meditate for 1/2 and hour. After I am done meditating the above feelings are gone, usually almost entirely. I then go about my day and I feel the symptoms throughout the day to a lesser degree than a normal cycle, and no headache comes. Some days I meditate at night for 1/2 an hour as well. I don't know how the next few months of my life will play out, but I really hope they are as painfree as right now.

Good luck everyone. PF wishes.

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by Flounder on Oct 18^th, 2006, 2:42pm

on 10/16/06 at 17:54:39, youngmichael wrote:

So far there hasn't been one person to respond and say they are a daily meditator and have ch. I find that very interesting. Not that I am drawing any conclusions just yet, but it makes me excited

I'm a daily masturbater and I have Cluster Headaches ;)

on 10/16/06 at 17:54:39, youngmichael wrote:

it makes me excited

Me too.

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by LeLimey on Oct 18^th, 2006, 2:48pm

::) Flounder you're going straight to hell - and here was me thinking I wouldn't know anyone!

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by nani on Oct 18^th, 2006, 2:59pm

on 10/18/06 at 14:42:03, Flounder wrote:

I'm a daily masturbater and I have Cluster Headaches ;)

Me too.

Rotflmao... you don't say much, buddy...but what you do say really packs a punch. [smiley=laugh.gif]
hugs, nani

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by pattik on Oct 18^th, 2006, 3:41pm

Flounder, dontchaknow that will make you go blind? 8)

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by Pinkfloyd on Oct 18^th, 2006, 9:35pm

on 10/18/06 at 14:59:34, nani wrote:

Rotflmao... you don't say much, buddy...but what you do say really packs a punch. [smiley=laugh.gif]
hugs, nani

How do you know what he's packin? :-*

Bobw

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by Linda_Howell on Oct 18^th, 2006, 9:46pm

Quote:

and here was me thinking I wouldn't know anyone!

Nope. I'm gonna be meeting you at the gates with a cold glass of Guiness Helen.

Title: Re: psilocybin theory
Post by dennisoc on Oct 20^th, 2006, 2:48am

if i haven't hit any bumps in the road lately...did all the roads get fixed? am i just luckily missing the bumps? have i been blessed by a higher power...and saved from bumps? maybe i'm still hitting bumps butt have become so spiritually advanced that i have risen above the material world and no longer feel the adverse effect commonly known as "bumps" on that lower plane of existence.

I applaud you youngmichael for yer vision quest. all of the light is there.

i don't believe that all of any "medicine's" curative powers can be fully understood using only physical science's measuring tools. i don't expect Ueli to agree with me.

if that were true then all of life's pains and problems would be solved if we just "knew more"....there must be "love" for that to become realized.

the fact that the clusterbuster methods are working for so many clusterheads is a testament to their right path...exactly how?...fuck if i know!

wage peace...instigate a smile
den

PS: hey... should clusterbusters be in the "Tips" thread?....it only took a few years for it to make it here....maybe she oughta start a website? 8)