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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies >> ARGENINE (Nitric Oxide)
        
(Message started by: jocojo on Sep 28^th, 2006, 8:30am)

Title: ARGENINE (Nitric Oxide)
Post by jocojo on Sep 28^th, 2006, 8:30am

My son and I suffer from CH terribly. I used 02 daily before the onset of an episode with great results. Actually stop them all together. We tried 02 with my son and it was just a little too cumbersome for him and he stopped treatment but his episodes were getting worse and even daily so we started him on a ARGENINE supplementation and he has not had an episode in three weeks. He is a young kid and so he takes only 500mg in the morning. Adults can use 1-3grams per day. Do not take Argenine if you have a CH take it every day at the same time before you get a CH.

Argenine is a Nitric Oxide (NO) donnor and so it breaks down in the body as NO. Google it or Yahoo it (whichever) for more information. VERY VERY GOOD FOR YOU AND DOES SOME AMAZING THINGS!!

Title: Re: ARGENINE (Nitric Oxide)
Post by chopmyheadoff on Sep 28^th, 2006, 9:32am

[smiley=huh.gif] [smiley=huh.gif] [smiley=huh.gif]

but nitrous oxide is one of the most reliable triggers for cluster headache.

but that is NO2

whats with that ??? bb ?

Title: Re: ARGENINE (Nitric Oxide)
Post by nani on Sep 28^th, 2006, 10:19am

I think you mean, nitroglycerin, choppy.
I thought nitrous oxide was the "laughing gas" one gets at the dentist. It's available in tablets? Does it make you giggly?
Confused....
jocojo, is there any risk for children using this?

Title: Re: ARGENINE (Nitric Oxide)
Post by jocojo on Sep 28^th, 2006, 11:17am

"Arginine is a precursor of nitric oxide, which causes blood vessel relaxation (vasodilation). Preliminary evidence suggests that arginine may be useful in the treatment of medical conditions that are improved by vasodilation, such as angina, atherosclerosis, coronary artery disease, erectile dysfunction, heart failure, intermittent claudication/peripheral vascular disease, and vascular headache. Arginine also stimulates protein synthesis and has been studied for wound healing, bodybuilding, enhancement of sperm production (spermatogenesis), and prevention of wasting in people with critical illness." MAYOCLINIC.COM

There is a great book called "Arginine Solution"

Everyone in my family is in Arginine including my parents. My wife (not a headache suferer) claims being less tired at the end of the day. My father (85yo) lowered his blood pressure for the first time in over 40 years, his doctor told him to keep taking it. He was also in medication for dizziness and since he has been taken out of that medication. My mother whiich has varicose veins all over her legs and cannot remain standing late in the afternoons claims that she has almost no pain and remains standing all day long.

NO keeps your arteries plyable and soft and thus it prevents sudden vasodilatation or constrictions of the veins. I know that it will not work for everyone but it is worth a try. Read the book if at all possible.

Title: Re: ARGENINE (Nitric Oxide)
Post by pattik on Sep 28^th, 2006, 12:16pm

on 09/28/06 at 11:17:17, jocojo wrote:

Preliminary evidence suggests that arginine may be useful in the treatment of medical conditions that are improved by vasodilation, such as angina, atherosclerosis, coronary artery disease, erectile dysfunction, heart failure, intermittent claudication/peripheral vascular disease, and vascular headache.

You won't be able to sell vasodilation to CH'ers. That's just what we're trying to avoid.
::)

Title: Re: ARGENINE (Nitric Oxide)
Post by Margi on Sep 28^th, 2006, 1:50pm

um....oxygen is a vasodilator isn't it? It's the triptans that are the vasoconstrictors.....

???

I've actually talked to another clusterhead who had success with laughing gas. Much the same result as straight oxygen.

Title: Re: ARGENINE (Nitric Oxide)
Post by Mr. Happy on Sep 28^th, 2006, 2:00pm

Sakai and Meyer (1979) have shown that marked cerebral vasoconstriction results from the administration of 100 percent oxygen during cluster headache attacks.

http://www.clusterheadaches.com/about.html

Title: Re: ARGENINE (Nitric Oxide)
Post by Margi on Sep 28^th, 2006, 3:49pm

oh ok. Thanks, Mr. Happy. I stand corrected.

See? Even an old dog can still learn new tricks around here! :)

Title: Re: ARGENINE (Nitric Oxide)
Post by tommyD on Sep 28^th, 2006, 4:22pm

This stuff sounds like a trigger.

Quote:

The Mayo Clinic thinks vasodilators are treatments for vascular headache?

-tommyD

Title: Re: ARGENINE (Nitric Oxide)
Post by Bob P on Sep 28^th, 2006, 7:10pm

The example given in that same Mayo article is:

Quote:

"Preliminary studies suggest that adding arginine to ibuprofen therapy may decrease migraine headache pain."

Title: Re: ARGENINE (Nitric Oxide)
Post by no-one on Sep 28^th, 2006, 7:19pm

"You won't be able to sell vasodilation to CH'ers. That's just what we're trying to avoid. "

"The Mayo Clinic thinks vasodilators are treatments for vascular headache? "

However,From Rxlist.com-Verapamil- "
1. Relaxation and prevention of coronary artery spasm: Calan dilates the main coronary arteries and coronary arterioles, both in normal and ischemic regions, and is a potent inhibitor of coronary artery spasm, whether spontaneous or ergonovine-induced. This property increases myocardial oxygen delivery in patients with coronary artery spasm and is responsible for the effectiveness of Calan in vasospastic (Prinzmetal’s or variant) as well as unstable angina at rest. Whether this effect plays any role in classical effort angina is not clear, but studies of exercise tolerance have not shown an increase in the maximum exercise rate–pressure product, a widely accepted measure of oxygen utilization. This suggests that, in general, relief of spasm or dilation of coronary arteries is not an important factor in classical angina."

Calcium channels are known to be related to other pain
dissorders,for example CP http://www.painonline.com/mt-archives/2005/03/calcium_ion_cha.html

It is my opinion that perhaps the effectiveness of
Verapamil has more to do with the electrical aspects
of calcium ions than the effects it has on blood presure
or vascular diolation or constriction.

from Rxlist.com-verapamil-"Arrhythmia: Electrical activity through the AV node depends, to a significant degree, upon calcium influx through the slow channel. By decreasing the influx of calcium, Calan prolongs the effective refractory period within the AV node and slows AV conduction in a rate-related manner. This property accounts for the ability of Calan to slow the ventricular rate in patients with chronic atrial flutter or atrial fibrillation."

Title: Re: ARGENINE (Nitric Oxide)
Post by chopmyheadoff on Sep 29^th, 2006, 6:21am

on 09/28/06 at 10:19:05, nani wrote:

my bad :-[ :P

Title: Re: ARGENINE (Nitric Oxide)
Post by BB on Sep 29^th, 2006, 10:30am

Arginine is an amino acid which can be converted into nitric oxide, which has many functions including one of neurotransmitter.

In the brain it can affect blood vessels with both dilatation and constriction and appear to help general brain circulation.

However, it has many other effects on the body, some on hormones ( increase growth hormones and testosterone ) , some on fat absorption ( reduce fat absorption ) , some on protein ( muscle building ) etc therefore one needs to be cautious on the dosage and with children.

It has never been recommended as treatment for any type of headaches due to its other complex effects on the rest of the body.

I would be very cautious about using it in a child.

http://www.primev.com/Arginine.htm

Annette

Title: Re: ARGENINE (Nitric Oxide)
Post by BB on Sep 29^th, 2006, 7:20pm

Looking further into Arginine showed that the Mayo Clinic does NOT recommend its use at all , especially for heedaches. They mentioned migraine but not cluster. Even then they said its not proven. Also their studies found that most of the effects of arginine on claimed "miracles" have not been proven.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/l-arginine/NS_patient-arginine

They also stated there clearly that most people get enough natural arginine from food and do not need supplement.

They also advised against giving it to children under the age of 18 due to side effects.

Its looks like the ones who take them regularly are body builders and those who want sexual performance enhancers.

Please think twice about giving it to your son.

Annette

Title: Re: ARGENINE (Nitric Oxide)
Post by floridian on Oct 10^th, 2006, 1:34pm

The research on clusters and arginine is interesting. They have not tested it to see if it prevents or aborts.

One theory is that too much arginine activity causes the nitric oxide that shoots up with a cluster, and there is a study that proves that. But the most recent study found that arginine metabolism itself was NOT ramped up in clusterheads. So either it is or isn't arginine's fault - take your pick.

While nitroglycerin is a pretty good trigger because it is so quickly converted to nitric oxide, arginine might not have the same effect if it is converted slowly. Maybe instead of being a dependable trigger, it would just gently ramp up the intensity of hits. Or maybe it would prevent.

For lots of metabolic pathways, it is a Chinese-finger trap - something can be just the opposite of what a person expects. Alcohol also leads to a quick increase in nitric oxide, and a quick reduction in blood pressure. But almost everyone that has more than 2 drinks of alcohol per day has high blood pressure and depleted nitric oxide capacity.

Maybe the Same thing with histamine? Histamine in small spikes seems to be associated with clusters, and antihistamines seem to help. As does a massive IV infusion of histamine, which may desensitize a person to the effects of little spikes??

Wish I had more info - no way of telling what it does given the studies on file.

Quote:

Cephalalgia. 2003 Jul;23(6):407-13.

Nitric oxide pathway and response to nitroglycerin in cluster headache patients: plasma nitrite and citrulline levels.

* Costa A,
* Ravaglia S,
* Sances G,
* Antonaci F,
* Pucci E,
* Nappi G.

University Centre for Adaptive Disorders and Headache, University of Pavia, Institute of Neurology IRCCS C. Mondino, Pavia, Italy. alfcosta@libero.it

Nitric oxide (NO) may participate in the mechanisms underlying vascular headaches, such as migraine and cluster headache (CH), by triggering neurogenic inflammation and activation of fibres conveying nociceptive inputs to the trigeminal ganglion. Similarly to migraine, the administration of the NO donor glyceryltrinitrate (GTN) to CH patients is a known model of inducing spontaneous-like attacks. We carried out a GTN test (0.9 mg, sublingually) in 18 patients with episodic CH in active phase and 12 controls. The plasma levels of NO metabolite nitrites (NO2-), after conversion of nitrates to NO2-, were measured spectrophotometrically at baseline, at the maximum intensity of the induced response (or 45 min after GTN in controls), and 120 min after GTN administration. The basal plasma levels of L-citrulline were also assayed in patients and controls using high-performance liquid chromatography. Basal NO2- levels, similar in GTN-responsive patients and controls (48.3 +/- 10.6 and 44.6 +/- 9.5 micromol/l, respectively) were found to be increased significantly at pain peak in patients (76.1 +/- 10.2 micromol/l) and after 45 min in controls (78.2 +/- 9.6 micromol/l) (P < 0.01 vs. respective baseline values), but not after 120 min, without differences between groups. L-citrulline levels in basal conditions showed no differences between groups (patients 64.8 +/- 11.7, controls 67.3 +/- 10.8 micromol/l). These data do not support the presence of a basal hyperactivity of the L-arginine-NO pathway in CH patients. Increased NO production may be of importance in the mechanisms leading to CH attacks, but other factors are likely to render CH patients hyperresponsive to NO, and ultimately to cause the occurrence of pain and associated features.

PMID: 12807519 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Title: Re: ARGENINE (Nitric Oxide)
Post by Charlotte on Oct 12^th, 2006, 11:14pm

on 09/28/06 at 19:19:25, no-one wrote:

Thank you, no-one. I really was wondering about the dilation causing more pain, and it makes sense that the decrease of calcium ions conducting electrical impulses might decrease pain.

Charlotte