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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies >> Beets
        
(Message started by: starlight on Sep 9^th, 2006, 4:05pm)

Title: Beets
Post by starlight on Sep 9^th, 2006, 4:05pm

Some talk about eating beets to battle clusters came up in the "Alcohol and Drug Addict" thread.
I figured I would try it--can't hurt. Figure as long as I am still stuck in cycle might as well experiment.
Anyway, yesterday I made roasted beets--and ate 3 large beets (not delicious but hey). Anyway, I am making absolutely no claims just wanted to report that last night was completely pain free. The night preceding that I had 3 headaches at 2:30, 4:30, and 6:30 and then just got up cause they woulda kept coming (every 2 hours). Now the "problem" is is that I have been having sporadic pain free nights--between 8/27 and 9/9 I have had 4 sporadic pain free nights--the other 9 of the nights multiple headaches. I do not ever have several pain free nights in a row at this point in cycle. So folks I will keep this up and if I see a pattern--multiple pain free nights I will post that. Indeed though last night--post beet eating was pain free.
Love to hear if anyone else does this experiment what results they get.

Title: Re: Beets
Post by Charlotte on Sep 9^th, 2006, 4:29pm

I was going to say "Go, Girl", but I just realized I don't know your gender - so Go, Go, Go!!!

I'm so glad you had a pf night. I'm hoping you have another pf night.

Did the threat\d you read say quanitty or frequency of consumption or what the ingredeient might be.

Excupe th typign todya.

Looking forward to more beet reports.

Charlotte

Title: Re: Beets
Post by starlight on Sep 9^th, 2006, 4:49pm

Hey Charlotte!

Actually I made an oops--the beet discussion was in the Alcoholics and Drug Addicts thread where Zone Diet was also discussed. I will edit my post to say that--I got the threads mixed up. There was no quantity or frequenty mentioned, so I just took a guess. I will keep eating 3 a day--alreaady did it today. But the ingredient that is supposed to help is the red pigment called the "betalains". I will definitely keep people posted if it keeps on working! Pain free DAN to you, Starlight

Title: Re: Beets
Post by Jonny on Sep 9^th, 2006, 4:59pm

I guess its an it, Char

No gender ::)

Title: Re: Beets
Post by E-Double on Sep 9^th, 2006, 5:00pm

MAybe I should stop eating beets.
I have them nearly everyday on a salad for lunch.

Who knows it may have made me gone from episodic to chronic.

I will also eliminate cucumbers and romaine lettuce and stop shaving.

If ya know me then you realize I'm j/k.

There is no way in hell I will give up beets ;)

Glad ya had a break :-*

Title: Re: Beets
Post by Charlotte on Sep 9^th, 2006, 5:02pm

Jonny, I thought you were going to say we were all goig to turn red from eating beats. lol

Title: Re: Beets
Post by starlight on Sep 9^th, 2006, 5:24pm

Johnny,

I thought I already cleared up my gender with you in the last go-round. But if you'd rather I remain such an enigma to you--then by all means return me to gender neutral status. I will stop reading this thread (b/c I don't have time to hash this out again Johnny) and repost in a week if I have luck with this experiment.

Title: Re: Beets
Post by nani on Sep 9^th, 2006, 5:26pm

Weren't the beets used for Epstein-Barr virus and not clusters? I wonder why they'd help? Hmm...

Title: Re: Beets
Post by Jonny on Sep 9^th, 2006, 5:27pm

Sorry, Char asked a question (sort of) and you failed to see it.

My bad

Title: Re: Beets
Post by starlight on Sep 9^th, 2006, 5:32pm

Nani--

It's something with the neuroimmune hypothesis where the behavior of the immune system in clusterheads is intereacting with their neurological system. (from what I understand--somebody else may be able to explain better)--higher levels of Epstein Barr antibodies found in clusterheads. So I was guessing it to be that the beets might calm down the immune system? Course I could be wrong here but I think that might be the effect.

Johnny--I fixed my registration so now gender is shown. My bad--I was in a hurry when I first filled it out.

Title: Re: Beets
Post by starlight on Sep 9^th, 2006, 5:35pm

Johnny,

Sorry I wasn't trying to evade Char's question--she asked a couple other questions and I was trying to write a response and just forgot to say that I am female. My bad. Sorry. Simmer down.

Title: Re: Beets
Post by starlight on Sep 9^th, 2006, 5:48pm

Nani--

I had done a search on internet and found in a few places that it says beets are good for headaches so don't know if maybe they have some other healing type affect with headaches? It says in different places they are supposed to be good for the blood and good for treating headaches. Trying to tap into earth medicine :)
PFDAN, Star

Title: Re: Beets
Post by starlight on Sep 9^th, 2006, 6:00pm

To anyone interested--I just looked on net and I guess beets have something called TMG that helps with brain chemicals. Hey, God must have put these things that taste so bad on earth to help heal something right? :) :)
Anyway, will post in about a week.

Title: Re: Beets
Post by Katherinecm on Sep 9^th, 2006, 6:32pm

I am NOT advocating this site or supplement, but found this when I did a search:

TMG (Tri Methyl Glycine)
http://www.nutricraze.com/TMG-Tri-Methyl-Glycine-p-JR-080.html

"Jarrow TMG (Tri Methyl Glycine)(120 Tabs)
Trimethylglycine
TMG 500 contains Trimethylglycine (TMG) extracted from sugar beets. TMG is also known as anhydrous betaine. TMG is a highly effective donor of methyl groups and is a powerful reducer of homocysteine to biologically safe methionine.

Homocysteine is a toxic transient metabolite of methionine and is a significant heart risk factor. Homocysteine is reduced back to biologically safe methionine by methyl groups donated by TMG and enzymes that require Folic Acid, B12 and methyl groups or back to cysteine by B6.

Methylation is inhibited by inadequately functioning key enzymes, excessive protein and fat intake, poor diet, inadequate intake of methyl groups, coffee, alcohol or by smoking.

Ingredients:

Trimethylglycine (Anhydrous Betaine) 500 mg

Suggestions:

Take 1 to 2 tablets daily with a meal, or as directed by your qualified health consultant."

When I did a search of homocysteine and headache I found a lot of info about migraines and pain thresholds... I'll keep reading!

Title: Re: Beets
Post by paulc on Sep 9^th, 2006, 7:04pm

If you eat too many beets at one sitting it can turn your urine red...so don't get scared if this happens.

Title: Re: Beets
Post by Katherinecm on Sep 9^th, 2006, 7:43pm

From http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=14759642

Implications for hyperhomocysteinemia: not homocysteine but its oxidized forms strongly inhibit neuronal network activity.

Gortz P, Hoinkes A, Fleischer W, Otto F, Schwahn B, Wendel U, Siebler M.

Department of Neurology, Heinrich-Heine University, Dusseldorf, Germany.

Severe hyperhomocysteinemia (50-200 microM) often presents itself with acute neuronal dysfunction including seizures and psychosis. Its moderate form (15-50 microM) is associated with cognitive impairment and dementia. We investigated the neuropharmacological effects of homocysteine and its oxidized forms, homocysteinesulfinic acid (HCSA) and homocysteic acid (HCA), on neuronal network function utilizing dissociated cortical neurons from embryonic Wistar rats on microelectrode arrays. All substances inhibited dose-dependently and reversibly spontaneous neuronal network activity within seconds: L-HCSA and L-HCA blocked spontaneous spike rate (SSR) significantly at very low concentrations, with an IC50 of 1.9 and 1.3 microM, respectively; whereas the dose-response curve of D,L-homocysteine revealed an IC50 of 401 microM. These effects were antagonized by 2-amino-5-phosphonovaleric acid (APV) pointing to the NMDA receptor as mediator of this fast and reversible inhibition of network activity. We conclude that a neuronal dysfunction observed in hyperhomocysteinemia is likely due to HCSA and HCA since effective concentrations of homocysteine are not reached in patients.

PMID: 14759642 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

I wonder if reducing homocysteine and its oxidized forms is part of why B-vitamins help some people?

Title: Re: Beets
Post by paulc on Sep 9^th, 2006, 8:08pm

Impressive article, Katherine, but it had to do with psyhcotic behavior and not CH-CH is not mentioned anywhere in the article.

Beets have now become the latest fad on the site for helping CH, as well as B vitamins. While beets taste good, there is no evidence out there that they help CH (real medical evidence). Eat them if you will, no harm done, but don't expect your CH to get better. At least your post attempts to make a scientific connection and maybe will get us away from the "masterbation" nonsense that was the "possible cure" of the week last week. Keep trying and thanks for looking for a rational, scientific approach to helping CH sufferers. Good job!

Title: Re: Beets
Post by brewcrew on Sep 9^th, 2006, 8:17pm

on 09/09/06 at 20:08:28, paulc wrote:

Regarding our resident research expert and his apparent unwillingness to accept the fact that many important scientific discoveries were made utterly by accident:

For the benefit of new people, paulc is our resident troll. He serves no purpose except to confuse, obfuscate and distress posters while providing a wealth of misinformation of his own.

The best response to him is no response. All we do is inform people as best we can that his posts are unsound.

Title: Re: Beets
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Sep 9^th, 2006, 8:28pm

on 09/08/06 at 21:58:25, Jonny wrote:

Seems kinda funny that two people show up spelling my name the wrong way (But exactlly the same wrong way), what say you, B?

Could it be that this is a one in a million chance that this happen?

Not on your fucking life!!!!

Im on my game, Opie!!!! 8)

on 09/08/06 at 22:23:02, Jonny wrote:

All I know is sitting on the castle wall and a knowledge of the archives will always put dudes like you to rest.

;;D [smiley=laugh.gif]
You are right. Archives prove you wrong every time.

Now I am resting. Laughing (at you) and resting. ::)

;;D [smiley=laugh.gif]

Title: Re: Beets
Post by paulc on Sep 9^th, 2006, 9:15pm

on 09/09/06 at 20:17:49, brewcrew wrote:

I am willing to accept that the article made no mention of CH. I am also willing to accept that you and many others do no research regarding the questions that I-and others-pose but instead respond with ignorance and childish name calling. Go ahead and eat beets, they are good for you but have nothing to do with CH; also join the jerk off club-if you can't tell that the guy who first posted that has a serious psychiatric problem, then you are dumber than I thought that you were. How many times to you whack off a day? If you brought up that thread to a group of qualified neurologists you would be laughed off the stage (and possibly committed). Of course, doctors know nothing about CH and we should only listen to those on this board.

Title: Re: Beets
Post by Katherinecm on Sep 9^th, 2006, 9:48pm

OMG... the point of the article wasn't about CH directly. But indirectly- the point is that homocysteine inhibits neurons. I found it in a site about homocysteine and migraine.

Granted, it's an indirect link, but it might be one reason why people have noticed improvement in CH when they eat beets or any other food that lowers homocysteine levels, such as b-vitamins, and other veggies or shellfish.

Homocysteine is also very influential in heart disease, which does have a correlation with CH.

Title: Re: Beets
Post by starlight on Sep 9^th, 2006, 10:14pm

Katherine,

Thanks for doing that research that you did and posting it. Any beet agenda aside, I think it's super smart what you are doing, very rational, and also very interesting
and I'm all for it cause I'd love to see someone someday make the final connection
to bust open the secret of these HAs. More power to you! Star

Title: Re: Beets
Post by chewy on Sep 9^th, 2006, 11:11pm

For the benefit of new people paulc is our resident troll. He serves no purpose except to confuse, obfuscate and distress posters while providing a wealth of misinformation of his own.

The best response to him is no response. All we do is inform people as best we can that his posts are unsound.

Title: Re: Beets
Post by kcopelin on Sep 9^th, 2006, 11:35pm

Katherine,
I really DON'T like beets...never have....but I do take a B supplement and drink energy drinks loaded with B vits so there certainly could be a connection. Keep digging sister, that's what we're about-if you've ever spent any time with a group of clusterheads you had to be impressed with our thirst for commonalities-left handed, color blind, smoking.....the list goes on-but in the long run-we survivors are more likely to come up with the missing link to the cure than all the neurologist.
PFDAN
Kathy

Title: Re: Beets
Post by starlight on Sep 10^th, 2006, 11:04am

Hey guys and gals--

Figured I would report:

Last night, damn, I did get 2 headaches at 4:00 am and 7:00 am after eating 3 beets. So right now all I can say is it is not hurting any, possibly helping, but definitely not necessarily. Very confusing when you have sporadic pain free nights b/c the natural instinct is to start asking WHAT did I do differently that day? What did I eat that day, etc.? And also, other people ask me that "Well, what did you do differently that day (when I get a painfree night). AND I ask myself, if my hypothalamus/brain can get it right one night here and there why not all the time? (Could be the weather I am starting to think.) Well, I certainly hope some others have some luck with the experiment!!!
Also I don't mind trying new things cause as Kcopelin said, I think maybe it will be one of us with the clusters to finally hit on something (as people seem to have with mushrooms, etc. and other things).
PFDAN to you all, Star

Title: Re: Beets
Post by kcopelin on Sep 10^th, 2006, 11:26am

Star,
I don't know...beets to me are like....spinach to my son. produces gag response. ::)Keep us posted, okay.
kathy

Title: Re: Beets
Post by Charlotte on Sep 10^th, 2006, 12:36pm

on 09/09/06 at 23:35:04, kcopelin wrote:

This is the most responsive & generous group of people I've ever met, in person or virtual.

Charlotte

Title: Re: Beets
Post by Katherinecm on Sep 10^th, 2006, 12:43pm

Thanks everyone, I will keep digging. I'm getting slammed today- the rain I think, as well as possibly rebounds from experimenting with Amerge as a preventative recently.

Beets have a chemical in them that gives them the "earthy" taste. I think they taste and smell like dirt. Apparently there are genetic engineers working to get varieties without the dirty taste, but I have no idea how long that will take. Hopefully they won't find that there are healing qualities to that chemical.

I have noticed fresh boiled beets taste much better than canned. You can boil the leaves like spinach too, and they are slightly more tolerable than the root. Haven't tried juicing yet (yuck!).

Title: Re: Beets
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Sep 10^th, 2006, 12:59pm

Pickled beets are yummy!!
B$

Title: Re: Beets
Post by alleyoop on Sep 10^th, 2006, 5:20pm

Beetroot contains a complex mixture of betalain pigments. However, the characteristic purple-red-violet colour of beetroot is mainly derived from a betacyanin pigment called betanin. Betanin was first discovered in around 1920, while a crystalline form of betanin dye was produced in the 1960s. Up to 200 mg of betanin is typically found in one beetroot. It normally occurs at much higher levels in the roots of red beetroot than other betacyanin pigments. Like all betacyanins, betanin is metabolically derived from a molecule called 3,4-dihydroxyphenylalanine (L-DOPA). Betanin is formed from two L-DOPA molecules. The first undergoes a change to form betalamic acid. The second L-DOPA molecule is changed to cyclo-DOPA glucoside (CDG), which condenses with betalamic acid to produce betanidin. A minor change in structure converts betanidin to betanin. Other minor biochemical modifications give rise to other betacyanin pigments.

More on betalains...

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Stephen_Nottingham/beetroot6.htm

.........alley

Title: Re: Beets
Post by starlight on Sep 10^th, 2006, 10:21pm

Hey Alleyoop!

Thanks for posting that info! I read through the whole thing--it was very interesting! Amazing all the different medicinal properties to be found in this one thing. Thanks! Star