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Title: Detoxifying Post by TheDude on Aug 25th, 2006, 1:21pm OK, here’s something my wife stumbled upon. Detoxifying. The concept is that your blood is overloaded with toxins to a level that are triggering the headaches. Willing to try anything (once), I went on a De-Tox diet which restricted my intake of sugars, primarily. In addition, I found some treatments (mainly herbal) to clean the colon, the liver, and the blood. If interested, I'll list what I used, but basically, all "herbal" suppliments are pretty much the same and are my first choice. The results have been either amazing or coincidental. Within a week, I was attack free. I may get a slight ache in my left temple on an occasion, but it’s very weak and lasts only about 5 minutes. Sometimes I’ll take three Advil’s which I’m not sure does anything, or not. But who cares so long as that creature from “Alien” isn’t trying to bust out of my head anymore. I've been three weeks free as of the date of this post. So, here’s something new to try. I hope it works for y’all. |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by Garys_Girl on Aug 25th, 2006, 1:38pm Glad it worked for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We'd love to know what you took, what you cut out of the diet, and how long you were on these products/diet. Great news for you - and thanks for the info! Laurie |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by jmorgan52 on Aug 26th, 2006, 12:16pm Glad you discovered this method Dude. I have been advocating strongly on this board for the past 3 years that a detox diet will always break my CH cycle, and prevent a full blown cycle from starting if I catch it in the early stages. I have broken 2 full blown cluster cycles using this method and prevented at least another 2 from taking hold in the early stages using this method. Unfortunately most board members don't seem to take it seriously and have been flaming my posts for years. Recently Rocklobster reported that he broke his CH cycle with a week long fast. Bit more drastic than my method but it worked for him. My own version consists of a herbal drink and eating only fresh fruit, fresh veg and drinking only water for a week. Within 5 days my cycle stops, although I get a nasty toxic headache that lasts for up to 5 days when detoxing. This might not work for everyone but it is definately worth a try, costs next to nothing and does not involve drugs - legal or other wise 8) Hope it lasts for you John |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by TheDude on Aug 26th, 2006, 6:21pm Garys_Girl and jmorgan52 ::) As this is my first attempt at the Detoxifying method, I can’t say for sure this is the means to the end. But, this is the most normal I’ve felt in over two months. :) My “diet” consists of sugar busting. Nothing with added sugar. If I have anything sweetened, it’s with Splenda and that’s limited. Little to no sodium. For supplements I take three capsules of PoopDoctor (available online at PoopDoctor.com) and three capsules of Cardio Chelate with EDTA (available at most Natural Food Stores like Sprouts or Whole Foods) in the morning before a small breakfast. Mid afternoon, I have a cup of Detox Tea (Triple Leaf). That’s it. If you try it, I hope you get great results as I apparently did. |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by paulc on Aug 26th, 2006, 7:10pm Dude: you take something called "PoopDoctor"? What the hell is that? [smiley=huh.gif] |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by TheDude on Aug 26th, 2006, 8:16pm [smiley=laugh.gif] PoopDoctor is an all natural supplement that flushes your intestines and colon. It helps dissolve trapped particles that can add to toxins your blood, and flush them out of you. It’s the most through and complete supplement of this kind we’ve been able to find. ::) Also, I made a mistake on the URL. It’s PoopDoc.com. TheDude |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by paulc on Aug 26th, 2006, 11:10pm I wish you success, but it seems as if you are practicing 17th century medicine. |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by jmorgan52 on Aug 27th, 2006, 4:32am well Dutchman thanks for the perfect example of the lack of open mindedness to this method that I mentioned in my first response. "17th century" medicine or not - it works for me. For your info I also do colonic irrigation. It is faster and more effective than any other poop doctor ;;D John |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by Jonny on Aug 27th, 2006, 4:49am on 08/27/06 at 04:32:17, jmorgan52 wrote:
:o :o :o |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by Bob P on Aug 27th, 2006, 6:47am Poopdoc = $40/bottle Expensive SHIT! |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by georgej on Aug 27th, 2006, 10:31am on 08/27/06 at 04:32:17, jmorgan52 wrote:
Not particularly desiring to be labeled "closed-minded" here (heaven forbid), but--umm--the headache's on the other end. ;) Regards, George |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by Charlotte on Aug 27th, 2006, 10:42am on 08/27/06 at 06:47:13, Bob P wrote:
any on-line herbal company like PapaNature can offer you alternatives that are less expensive. Charlotte |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by Garys_Girl on Aug 27th, 2006, 2:05pm Thanks for the info, Dude. And John, I'm glad you've been able to bust the cycles so easily. Just an FYI: fasting and detoxifying via herbal cleansers and enemas (or colonic irrigation) is 20th/21st century science, not 17th century. As a vegetarian in high school and college, I had to struggle to find organic foods and had to constantly explain the "healthy" argument over and over. Now almost every supermarket has an organic section and every pharmacy has an extensive herbal supplements section. And the health benefits of colonic irrigation are so well known that almost all high-end spas offer wheat grass enemas. The benefits of antioxidants are now not just well-know, but clinically proven. And if you don't know the benefits of whole grains and unprocessed foods vs. white bread, white rice, and white sugar, then you are living in the dark ages. An adult that has lived on a traditional meat-eating diet as opposed to a whole grain, vegetarian diet is carrying up to 10 pounds of crap, literally, collected in the pockets/folds of your colon. The detoxifying method of busting CH cycles here may not work for some to bust the cycles, but they are certainly a healthy practice for any adult to use at least once a year. Laurie |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by BobG on Aug 27th, 2006, 2:46pm on 08/27/06 at 14:05:49, Garys_Girl wrote:
10 pounds? Holy batpoop, Laurie! Do you mean 10 ounces? 10 pounds of crap would cause your colon to fall outa your butt. |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by Garys_Girl on Aug 27th, 2006, 3:01pm No, I mean 10 pounds. Talk to any GI specialist. Or any coroner. Just like the waste that travels through the pipes in your home and then through sewers, the waste in our bodies also builds up. It's called impacted waste. And remember - it's hiding in your system at 98.6 degrees. It not only impairs the ability of your colon to function, it creates toxins and poisons that are then released back into your blood stream. There is already research out there that links this problem to headaches. So it is entirely possible that part of a headache problem does need to be treated at the other end. Laurie |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by rhino on Aug 27th, 2006, 6:53pm Now have I got this correct,, after eating my pork chops I guzzel a bottle of poopdokter and it gets rid of my headaches.. :P |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by paulc on Aug 27th, 2006, 7:39pm on 08/27/06 at 18:53:01, rhino wrote:
"THAT'S THE TICKET!" [smiley=laugh.gif] |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by paulc on Aug 27th, 2006, 11:42pm The opening scene of "Macbeth", with the 3 witches, has a good receipe [smiley=laugh.gif] |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by sevim on Aug 28th, 2006, 6:00am didnt quite get the methot for detoxifying. Still got English problem but my husband suffers pain in his stomach all the time he cant eat most of the thing would you able to mail me what you have use PS: Most of you may not know but do Stool test and you will find out all the bad bacterias causing you pain |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by jmorgan52 on Aug 28th, 2006, 6:21am Not sure I agree with the 10 pounds of crap but... The first ever colonic I had last year I weighed myself before and after and did not see that much difference, maybe 2 pounds, but what was significant, to me at least, was the fact that although I have never suffered from any noticeable bowel "movement problems" there were 2 bad blockages about 1/3 and 2/3 into my colon that took 2 treatments about a week apart to clear. The matter that came out at these points was black and hard and I felt "crampy" during the treatment. This means that my "normal movements" had to squeeze by this hard matter for years maybe. I have been twice since then at 6 month intervals and the matter that came out each time was soft and with no blockages and no cramp. The cost here is about US$30 per 45 min treatment (costs less than 1 imigran injection) which is quite reasonable I think and worth it if it helps me feel better and reduces the risk of colon cancer and maybe headaches. As for me busting CH "so easily" that's a bit of a joke! I am 54 now and have had CH and Migraines since I can remember and it took me until about 10 years ago when I discovered (very expensive) imigran injections, to find anything to abort my 2-4 daily each 2-4 hour long 2-3 month CH cycles. I just had to suffer them. When I was offered a detox product out of the blue 3 years ago I was halfway through my cycle and was at the end of my rope stage. I had nothing to lose so I tried it. I ate onlt fruit and veg and water. It made me much worse for the first 3 or 4 days when I had a constant kip 8+ headache the whole time, but I stuck it out and woke up on day 5 feeling wonderful and did not have another headache of any sort for the next year. I actually continued this detox for a total of 4 weeks and lots of other small benefits started to be seen. I lost 10kgs My dry scalp and dandruff disapperared My regular aching knees, back and hands stopped aching I had more energy etc I slacked off eventually (this lifestyle is not easy to keep up) and the following year my CH cycle started again over Christmas. No matter what, you cannot do this detox over Christmas with house visitors so I was back on 1/2 imitran injs again for 2 weeks and the on 2nd Jan started the same detox with the exact same results as before. I have never had a CH since then. I now start a week long detox about every 6 months (I started one today) as I have had quite a few minor headaches in the past few weeks and have been plucking up the willpower to do it again. It is not that easy :-/ And paulc & co; grow up - this is serious stuff! We are trying to help people here. If you are really looking to stop your CH then give this method a try instead of making stupid comments. John |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by paulc on Aug 28th, 2006, 3:14pm If a person has "toxins" in their blood, they would show up if a blood test was done. The idea of "detoxifying" the body by various diets, supplements, etc. is ancient; while a "detoxifying diet" will not harm someone, unless taken to extremes, it will not affect cluster headaches. I think that it is safe to say that all of the neurologists and other physicians who are experts in cluster headaches, have never recommended such diets as a cure for CH nor as a way of minimizing the pain. They also all agree that the hypothalamus is the area of the body that is the cause of CH, but the exact reason that a malfunctioning hypothalamus causes CH is not yet known, but I have never read a paper claiming that their is a link between what is in your colon and CH. "Cleaning the colon", which does a good job on its own, is unnecessary. If the colon and the digestive tract are not functioning correctly, medical testing will reveal the cause-be it piles(sp), a tumor or other illness. There is no link between the colon and the hypothalamus nor is there a link between the colon and CH. Anecdotal "evidence", which is what has been presented on this post, needs to be proven scientifically. I would suggest that all of those who claim that taking purgatives has helped or "cured" their CH bring their evidence to a competent neuologist and get their opinion-perhaps even sending a letter to Dr. Goadsby and see what he says. Waste does not accumulate in the digestive tract for very long-it is replaced daily by new waste. I urge those new sufferers-and old timers-to check out colonic cleansing with their neurologist before embarking upon it. As I wrote earlier, going on one of these diets will not do any harm in the short term, but it is possible to become addicted to laxatives and that can cause some serious medical problems. There is a clinic in Mexico that claims that it can "cure" cancer through colonic cleansing and they charge a fortune. One of the most famous people to go there was the late, great Steve McQueen; he had cancer and was told that nothing could be done for him, so he went, paid and died. The clinic is still in business and making money and the people with untreatable cancer still pay and die; the ones who have been "cured" never had cancer, according to their American doctors, but the clinic's doctors did their tests and confirmed cancer and then "cured" it. Be careful folks...and I should have written this before I made my other, sarcastic remarks, for which I apologize. My last words on this are get diagnosed by a neurologist who knows about CH and if you are diagnosed as having CH (I am chronic), ask your docs opinion about colonic cleansing with regards to CH and please don't ignore other forms of treatment that might be offered. We suffer enough, both from the illness and the prejudice from non-CH people, which we have all been through, without causing ourselves more suffering by using unproven treatments which may raise our hopes only to find them dashed. |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by jmorgan52 on Aug 28th, 2006, 4:29pm Yeh yeh - heard it all before Paul. This is the standard argument response I have had with others on the board for years. I also never stated that toxins were in the blood either so a blood test may show nothing. I also never stated that there was a link between the colon and CH - I just said I did it to aid my own detox. I bust my previous 2 CH cycles using my version of the Detox diet without the colonic. So did Rocklobster and so it seems did the Dude. And I have never used laxatives. In fact the colonic experts decry the use of them! I also never claimed colonics would cure cancer, but it might well prevent it. So whether you think this is a bunch of crap - well that's just your view, but it works for at least 3 of us. I have emailed Dr Goadsby at least 3 times on this subject over the years but have never been given a reply to date. And just because we have found that this works has nothing to do with what medical science agrees with or disagrees with. It works for me and I am just so grateful to have discovered this totally drug free method of busting my CH with a diet and willpower And apologies accepted. Just be more open minded and don't be bogged down with the medical and pharmaceutical profession, a lot of them are just after your money. Lots of other non-medical ways of getting relief are talked about openly here and I doubt many doctors would agree with some of the methods that work to relieve our pain. John |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by Kevin_M on Aug 28th, 2006, 4:49pm on 08/28/06 at 16:29:42, jmorgan52 wrote:
It just could be possible the same could be said also for organic and herbal supplement suppliers. on 08/27/06 at 14:05:49, Garys_Girl wrote:
Stay open-minded. |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by Garys_Girl on Aug 28th, 2006, 6:29pm John: Sorry to hear you've suffered for so long. Let me rephrase that post. Glad to hear you've found an alternative method that works for you and has other added health benefits as opposed to health risks. As to the comments about impacted waste, surely you've heard of diverticulitis? Because it is so prevalent and so well documented, it is easy to illustrate the point. Fom emedicine.com (http://www.emedicine.com/radio/topic183.htm): "Diverticulitis is inflammation in and around a diverticulum. The cause of diverticulitis is probably mechanical. The stagnation of nonsterile inspissated fecal material, termed a fecalith, within the diverticulum may compromise the blood supply to the thin-walled sac and render it susceptible to invasion by colonic bacteria, causing inflammatory erosion of the mucosal lining with perforation. This sequence of events can involve perforation into the colonic wall, with the formation of an intramural abscess. However, perforation usually occurs into the pericolic fat, leading to fibrinous exudate, abscess formation, local adhesions, or peritonitis. Most patients develop sealed-off abscesses or contained sinus tracts and fistulas.... Other potential complications include bowel obstruction and peritonitis. Frequency: * In the US: Diverticular disease is the most common colon disease in Western nations. In the West, colonic diverticula occur in 5% of the population by the time individuals are aged 40 years. They affect 33-50% of the population older than 50 years and more than 50% of the population older than 80 years." I bolded the part that would refer to what could be called impacted waste. It is discussed specifically in relation to diverticulitis here, but this clearly indicates that western science has identified that nonsterile, "inspissated" (thickened - therefore not new and fresh) fecal material can be present in the colon. There is a "plain english" discussion in Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diverticulitis To address the issue of toxins, "Doctor Colins states, " when the colon becomes burdened with an accumulation of waste material: impacted feces, bacteria, fungi, viruses, parasites, and dead cellular material, the result is termed - bowel toxemia - . This condition causes inflammation and swelling of the bowel surface, and can lead to a host of other health problems. Normal absorption of nutrients, secretory functions, and normal muscular function of the colon are disrupted. Irregular and inefficient bowel movement is the result, further surppressing recovery and encouraging other problems." "Bowel toxemia and improper digestion can cause a buildup in the intestines of pathological bacteria, viruses, and fermented and putrefactive gases that become dangerous to the body and can lead to other illnesses." http://www.liferesearchuniversal.com/colon.html Also, "Three types of toxins may be present in the intestinal tract. These are as follows: 1. PUTREFACTION – caused by the spoilage of protein. Guanidine, histamine and other organic toxins may be formed as a result of bacterial action. 2. RANCIDITY – caused by the spoilage of fats. This may occur either locally or from the ingestion of rancid fats. The end product of rancidity is peroxides which are harsh irritants. 3. FERMENTATION – caused by the production of gas by bacterial action. Carbohydrates are primarily concerned. Nitrogen is the principal component of intestinal gas. A certain amount of intestinal gas (flatulence) is to be expected in normal persons." http://www.positivehealth.com/permit/Articles/Colon%20Health/rod3.htm Even I did not suggest a connection between CH and excess waste in the colon, however, the claims by just about every "colon hydrotherapist" on the net that sluggish colons can cause and/or exacerbate arthritis and some headaches (among other things) would seem to be supported by potential toxins that can be created in the intestinal tract. The fact is, no one knows what the mechanism of action is that causes the dysfunction of the hypothalamus that then results in cluster headaches. Discussing any treatment, including fasting or detoxifying, with one's Doctor is always a good idea. I'm not sure that a neurologist is the best Doc with which to discuss these issues as they specialize in the brain and nervous system, not the GI system. This is both the wonder and the problem with western medicine. The specialization has resulted in fabulous treatments for many diseases; however, it has also dissociated the body into parts, sometimes overlooking the interaction between those parts. Laurie |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by TheDude on Aug 28th, 2006, 6:32pm To all my friends on this post, thank you for the stimulating responses. :) I really appreciate every response whether positive or negative. The pattern I see is that there is a degree of personal uniqueness in each case which one could conclude that no one treatment is a one size fits all, in every occurrence. My personal 20+ years of trial and error has made the same conclusion. The main point to this wonderful website is that no response or opinion is wrong. It’s to provide possibilities and support. We all share this mysterious condition with some similarity and some uniqueness. We, as suffers and the medical and herbal communities, can not isolate what actually causes these monsters, or why. One reason could be that no one thing does. It could be a combination of elements or circumstances that react to each individual’s condition at that particular time. Thusly, what worked last time may not necessarily give the same relief the next time (sound familiar?). Or, what helped at the start of the cycle quit helping a couple of weeks later. 8) Thusly, we come together at this wonderful site to read what other people are doing that we haven’t tried and to give that a try to see if it works. If it does, fantastic!! If not, we try something else, right? If one treatment works time after time for you, great! I wish that were me, but it’s not. So I browse this site to find a possibility I haven’t tried and try it. ::) I do not preach that my way is only path to relief. It’s not. It’s just one of many paths available. It may be a path one never saw. It may be a good path. It may be a path that yields no relief. It’s an option. And what you may find that works this session, may not work next time. But we don’t give up, do we? :D Thank you again and keep those cards and letters coming! :-* The Dude ;) |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by Garys_Girl on Aug 28th, 2006, 6:34pm As to the other issues brought up, on 08/28/06 at 15:14:42, paulc wrote:
Actually, unless looking for specific toxins, what would be seen is an elevated white blood cell count. And if the problem is diverticulitis, unless the diverticulum has burst, the only detection would be through a stool sample, CT Scan or colonoscopy. on 08/28/06 at 15:14:42, paulc wrote:
Actually, as John pointed out, it has helped at least three people with clusters, and none of them used any method that seems particularly extreme. on 08/28/06 at 15:14:42, paulc wrote:
Recommending that people try detoxing or fasting to bust a cycle is hardly asking people to ignore other methods of treatment. The whole point of this board is for people to exchange ideas; for people who have tried something that works for them to share those things. Kudzu, melatonin, taurine, Red Bull, seeds with LSA or Psilocybin mushrooms are hardly things recommended by western medicine docs - but people discovered something that worked, shared that information, and as more and more people try them, large percentages of people are finding that they help alleviate the attacks or bust the cycles. In the case of seeds and magic mushrooms, the results were so startling that they did become the object of scientific study - a study that was conducted scientifically enough and a study that was successful enough to merit publication in a peer review journal for neurologists by neurologists. Who knows? Maybe the problem will turn out to be a specific histimine that is created in the intestine, and all the meds or herbs that people have been taking simply address the process in a different phase of its process. Of course, I'm not being entirely serious - but I don't dismiss the idea as completely out of the question, either. ...And just because one quack says they can cure colon cancer with enemas or whatever doesn't mean that maintaining a healthy colon won't help prevent colon cancer. It is the 2nd leading cause of cancer in the U.S. (http://www.colon-cancer-digestion-health-zone.com/colon-cancer.html) None of the three people who have had success with detoxing/fasting have claimed they've found a cure. They've simply said "this worked for me - give it a try if you want to." Feel free not to give it a try. Part of what I was pointing out, however, is that there are many other benefits to giving it a try, whether it affects one's CH or not. on 08/28/06 at 16:49:00, Kevin_M wrote:
Laurie |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by TheDude on Aug 28th, 2006, 6:43pm Laurie, Nice write up and nice use of reference material. :D Appreciate the input. The Dude |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by BB on Aug 28th, 2006, 7:05pm on 08/26/06 at 18:21:24, TheDude wrote:
I am all for detox but I would like to know whats in the capsules that you are taking and how they work to detox. I have seen people detox with eating only fresh food and veges and drinking water, that I can understand. Do you know whats in these capsules and the mechanism by which they work to clean the liver/blood and colon out? and what sort of side effects or long term effects that they may have? Annette |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by Kevin_M on Aug 28th, 2006, 7:31pm on 08/28/06 at 16:49:00, Kevin_M wrote:
on 08/28/06 at 18:34:10, Garys_Girl wrote:
I believe it would be John's statement you would like to correct from "lot" to "some". It is his word "just" that I thought showed a bias of opinion because money is always factor, but pharma companies have extensive "research" costs to recover, which I thought was less of a factor in the margins of herbal and organic supplier's price. |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by jmorgan52 on Aug 29th, 2006, 3:05am Hi Laurie Glad to have your support and you write so well! I myself have some difficulties in the area of putting my point of view across without pissing some people off - my choice of words like "lots" and "Just" etc, might not always be the best choice, but there you have it, you sometimes have to read between the lines with me. I said that yesterday I started a detox. For your information I am drinking one and a half litres per day for the next week, a mixture of water and BePure (a Detox aid), which consists of: Concentrated Juice of Prune, Apple, Grape, Orange, Carrot, Lemon and Wheat germ oil, Juniper extract, with Fenugreek, Cumin, Cloves, Star Anis and Caraway. None of the ingredients sounds at all harmful or extreme to me. They are all nice fruity and spicy things which we normally eat and drink. The BePure costs me about US$8 for a weeks supply - not too bad, and it tastes really good! It also helps you drink the correct amount of fluid a day. Yesterday I ate a banana, and apple, an orange, and strawberries for breakfast. Lots of Thick Vegetable soup for lunch and a large vegetable stir-fry for dinner. I will do the same today and for the rest of the week. Yesterday evening I felt tired and a bit headachy in the afternoon and evening (and also a bit irritable). As I write this my head feels a bit muzzy. I expect this to continue for a few more days, then the usual feeling I get by the end of a week is a surge of energy and a clear head. It is almost worth doing the Detox just for this. I went for a colonic last Friday in preparation so I am "all clean" inside, although my therapist said my colon was in pretty good shape this time around. No more black hard stuff and no blockages, no cramps. In fact it was quite a nice, pleasant experience in a perverse sort of way :o I asked her about the supplements like "poop doctor" and she said that while she could not recommend them, they probably contain stuff to thicken and bulk up the poo to make it pass through the colon to cause the colon muscles to work harder. She also said that a colonic cleansing is like a good workout for lazy colon muscles, and after a few treatments they will begin to work again as nature intended. I am sure Laurie could put this better than me ;;D Good luck to anyone who is going to try this Detox (with or without colonics). If it works (which it may or may not for you?) you will wish you had tried it years ago. As you will have noticed I am a strong proponent of something that has kept me sane these past 3 years after 40 odd years of the Beast. John |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by Katherinecm on Aug 31st, 2006, 11:27pm First, I want to state that I DO NOT believe the pseudoscience that is stamped on the back of most of those herbal bottles. Those people are likely only trying to make money. However, there may be some scientific evidence that food can get caught up in the intestines. The author of Inside the Human Body took a colon on Oprah and showed what happens when a person doesn't eat enough fiber: http://www.oprah.com/health/yourbody/slide/slide_yourbody_inside_13.jhtml The doctor showed a colon and stated that food gets caught in crevaces. And there is increasing evidence that much more of the immune system than we thought is seated in the intestines, as well as viruses that attack the intestines such as HIV. Granted, these are preliminary studies, but so far the theory seems to be holding true that the majority of our immune system rests in our intestines. So while "cleaning out" the gut with a temporary high-fiber diet and herbal flush might seem completely wacky (probably due to the nutcake nonscientific marketing that goes along with it) it's really not that big of a leap to figure that your intestines may get cleaned out, your immune system rallies, your blood pressure drops because of your temporary low sugar-low sodium-low calorie high nutrient diet (with lots of magnesium from fresh produce and little calcium to block it). Reduced calorie diets have been shown to reduce inflammation. So have many fruits and vegetables. Lets think about this: temporarily removing unknown food triggers? check reducing blood pressure? check reducing inflammation? check adding magnesium and other nutrients? check possibly improving immune system? check If you're episodic those things in combination might just be enough to shock your system into ending a cycle. It didn't work for me, but it seems way more reasonable to me than some "scientific" treatments like, for example, deep brain stimulation... (no offense to the very helpful people who have helped me make some decisions about DBS... it's just not worth the risk for me at this time). And to be fair, I take a lot of very toxic drugs and didn't stop taking them for the period of the fast, so I might try it again at some point... |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by jmorgan52 on Sep 1st, 2006, 3:05am Sorry the fast didn't work for you Kathrine, but as you said you continued to take some toxic drugs during your fast. Also the fast seems a bit radical to me and maybe it releases to much toxins too quickly. My method is much gentler. I am epsodic and thankfully my detox method seems to work well for me. I am not in cycle but as you see from my posts on this subject I have been feeling headachy for several weeks now which is usually a precursor to a cycle starting in another month or so. I started my detox on Monday morning and have been very strict with what I eat and drink, not felt deprived of food yet (I think the water and the pleasant detox drink help here). I do the fruit/veg/water diet along with my detox drink (it may be BS but if I "think" it helps, then it helps if you know what I mean). Progress to date: Monday - Easy going all day, except for th eeffort required to drink all that water. Developed a slight HA and was a bit irritable in the evening. Peed a lot, urine clear. Tues - Woke up with a mild HA which persisted all day. Very irritable. Peed a lot, urine clear. Weds - Nasty HA all day and night. Felt lousy all day and close to stopping the detox [smiley=huh.gif] Peed a lot, urine starting to look orange. Thurs - HA subsided a lot, just a very mild muzzy head but felt very calm all day. Peeing frequency slowed down a bit thankfully. Noticed that although I was drinking maybe 3 litres of fluid a day my urine was a very dark orange/brown colour and it really stank a lot! Started a mild craving for something sweet late last night but resisted and ate some more fruit. Friday - woke up with a clear head and feel pretty good. Still no real hunger pangs. Lost 2kgs since Monday am. Nothing really radical to report but I do feel better than I have for some time. If I do this same thing when in cycle then it is hell for the first 5 days. John |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by TheDude on Sep 1st, 2006, 10:59am :P I apologize for the slow response. I do a fair amount of business travel which takes me out of the loop for periods of time. As you can imagine, being a ClusterHead sometimes affects traveling. Having an attack at 30,000 feet, sucks. :'( All of you have been terrific in your responses. Lots of great feedback, references, and stimulating ideas. :) Face it, if we all believed the same, there’d be one religion, one store, one movie, no need to improve, one way to have sex……………boring!!!! :-/ So, what makes what I do work? Beats me. Like I said, I tried it and either because of the detoxifying or coincidence, my attacks backed off. I’m happy, relieved, can sit in a window seat at 30,000, and can’t complain. To better explain what, what I take does, here are the links to the websites. www.poopdoc.com (for the colon cleaner that also helps dissolve trapped matter) http://www.mrm-usa.com/proddetail.php?prod=31010-0 (for help in keeping my blood oxygenated and flowing and clean) http://www.drnatura.com/?ovchn=GGL&ovcpn=Google&ovcrn=detox+tea&ovtac=PPC (for more interesting info on colon health and detoxing) And remember, just because this appeared to work for me, doesn’t mean the shoe will fit you. But you never know until you try. That’s what we’re trying to do here. Give possibilities and support. Good luck, my friends, The Dude :-* |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by paulc on Sep 1st, 2006, 11:32am I just read the "PoopDoctor" website...sheesh! The guy starts out telling about how his wife died of breast cancer and how somehow that guided him to formulate "PoopDoctor"-no tie in there. He never mentions what is in "PoopDoctor" but makes outrageous claims about how wonderful it is...no scientific study to back him up. He tells us that we are all carrying around about 10 pounds(!) of impacted fecal matter in us at all times and that the poisons in this are reabsorbed back into the body (mentions that John Wayne had 40 lbs. of poop in his intestines when he died-don't see the connection). He never says what "PoopDoctor" contains but I got the impression that if we all didn't run out and mail him $39 and change for a bottle of the stuff we would probably all die soon from the "parasites" that are in our 10 llbs. of impacted poop-amazing that there hasn't been lots of news about huge numbers of Americans dying due to impacted poop. Take the stuff if you wish, but as far as I'm concerned, this guy is selling nothing but some sort of laxative and charging a lot for it. As I wrote earlier, not only is there no medical backup for his outrageous claims (except one from someone who works in a doctor's office-a real expert!), but he never says what "PoopDoctor" consists of. I'll save my $39 and if I ever can't "poop", I'll go out and buy some Ex-Lax. Maybe those of you on the diet should try it without "PoopDoctor" and see what kind of results you get. I guess the 99.9% of us who don't use the stuff are going to die soon...so eat, drink and be merry! Sheesh! |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by Katherinecm on Sep 1st, 2006, 4:29pm on 09/01/06 at 11:32:18, paulc wrote:
;;D LOL I agree about trying the diet without the herbs... |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by TheDude on Sep 5th, 2006, 10:52pm Ex-Lax, Magnesium Citrate, a water bottle with an anal probe, corn cob…….whatever floats your boat. [smiley=laugh.gif] You don’t like or believe in herbs, fine. I actually prefer the type you smoke, but that’s another website. ;) Whatever you choose to try, I wish you all the success I had using herbs, “PoopDoctor”, Detox Tea, Cardio Chelate, and sugar busting. ;;D The Dude 8) |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by TheDude on Sep 13th, 2006, 5:36pm OK, update time. [smiley=laugh.gif] 2 weeks of dieting and detox. Finished with “PoopDoctor” and Cardio Chelate. Still have a cup of detox tea daily (besides, it tastes pretty good). Still sugar and sodium busting. Still no alcohol. :-/ No killer headaches. [smiley=sayyes.gif] Just a couple of sinus congested aches on my left side. Very, very minor pain. [smiley=thumbsup.gif] Didn’t stop me a bit. A snort of “4 Way Nasal Spray” and a couple of “Advil” took care it. I feel normal, but still cautious. Are these results because of the detox and dieting? Rather coincidental that I’ve risen from the pits of hell to not fearing the Reaper since, isn’t it? :D This has apparently worked for me. If you’ve tried the rest and still haven’t gotten relief, give Detoxifying a try. What have you got to lose, right? ;) The Dude [smiley=cool2.gif] |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by BlueMeanie on Sep 13th, 2006, 7:02pm on 09/01/06 at 10:59:12, TheDude wrote:
Just curious, why would you NOT use the poop doctor to see if it is coincidence ? |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by TheDude on Sep 15th, 2006, 4:16pm on 09/13/06 at 19:02:36, BlueMeanie wrote:
Maybe next time I will, just to see. ;) The Dude [smiley=cool2.gif] |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by kcopelin on Sep 15th, 2006, 8:00pm I don't know, maybe it's just me, but having a colonic treatment sounds...gross. I mean, oh you know, "Hi, I'm Kathy and I seem to be full of sh*t. Can you help?" kathy |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by jmorgan52 on Sep 16th, 2006, 7:49am Kathy Trust me a colonic is just fine. It all really sounds much worse than it is. The person doing the treatment should be fully medically qualified to do it. They do it all day long. I would have thought that women especially have to subject themselves to much more embarrasing things in life like Gyni exams or childbirth or even just having to deal with a period. Cleaning the colon is done in a very respectful way and is far less embarrasing than a guy going for a rectal prostate exam, and usually feels no more uncomfortable than having a really good shit [smiley=laugh.gif] Trust me on this - if you try it one of 2 things are likely to happen. 1 - If the contents of your colon are soft and moist as they should be if your diet and function is good thenit will be a breeze and you will then have peace of mind that your colon is clean and healthy. 2 - If you have any faecal impaction (really solid hard hard matter) you will maybe have some mild to serious blockages in which case you may get some cramping until the blockages are cleared which could take 2 or more sessions depending how hard the impaction is. If this is the case there is a strong likelihood that you may get a nasty detox headache for a day or so following the treatment. And you will be amazed how much better your visits to the loo for no2's will be after the cleansing. :) John |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by Charlotte on Sep 16th, 2006, 8:54am on 08/31/06 at 23:27:05, Katherinecm wrote:
Katy, I know you do your homework. I never read the bottles. I have books on drug/herb interactions (a decade out of date on drugs), nutritional living, healthy healing, back to eden, anything I can check out, buy, or borrow. Anything can help. Anything can harm. It's such a crap shoot. Even things that work, one time it works, one time it doesn't. Sh.t! Plus it seems that drugs go in & out of popularity with the medical community, depending on what articals are published in their update information sources. To be fair, it is good for me when my dr reads an artical on hemicrania continua, even though I don't fit that category either. on 09/15/06 at 20:00:58, kcopelin wrote:
lol. rotflmfao. Are we ready to form "FULL OF SHIT ANONYMOUS"? Thursday at 7:00 p.m. is good for me. Charlotte |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by Katherinecm on Sep 16th, 2006, 10:11am on 09/16/06 at 08:54:21, Charlotte wrote:
I got the idea that those herbal detoxifiers are a bad idea from reading various websites on how they work and comparing the literature they come with to known medical information. Most of them, even the herbal ones, are nothing more than laxatives, fiber and diuretics. For the quickest route to information on this, check quackwatch.com and the FDA's site for lawsuits regarding various "detox" products. Then the other day I read this: "To think that we can buy herbs that detoxify us is also an illusion. Herbs do not detoxify. They merely are a source of nutrients or natural drugs. For example, they do not detoxify the liver or kidney when they increase urinary output. Diuretic is the name given to a drug that can increase urine flow. When a drug functions as a diuretic it does so because of its ability to block or poison the ability of the cells that line the kidney's collecting ducts to reclaim fluid. When a natural herbal diuretic is taken, it works via the same mechanism. Instead of accurately reffering to it as a diuretic, it's proponents call it a kidney strengthener or detoxicant. Obviously, the profit motive encourages such claims made for many so-called "healing" substances. It is attractive to think we can buy good health in a bottle, but unfortunately it is not that easy." --Joel Furman, MD Now Dr Furman might be controversial in that he does agree with the concept that nutrition and toxins DO influence health, but he thinks we should be able to take care of that in harder ways- such as drinking more water, limiting processed foods, eating lots of raw and cooked vegetables, an assortment of fruits, whole grains, beans, and limiting meat to one 3 1/2 oz serving every other day. If you need an additional detox, he suggests a supervised water fast, and has a book out about why that is the medically prefferred method of detoxification, but should only be done after a few months of healthy eating. His reccomendations, minus the fasting, are also very close to those given in Eat, Drink and Be Healthy: The Harvard Medical School Guide to Healthy Eating by Walter Willett M.D., and P.J. Skerrett. The book outlines how to tell nutritional truth from psuedoscience, why nutrient studies oftentimes conflict with previous ones, and what our best knowns and guesses are regarding nutrition now. |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by jmorgan52 on Sep 16th, 2006, 10:53am on 09/16/06 at 10:11:11, Katherinecm wrote:
Katherine - I don't personally use the "herbal remedies" to detox. The so called "detox drink" I use to aid my process is fruit and spice based and yes it has some bullshit on the bottle, but it contains nothing remotely harmful, tastes good, makes you take on enough liquid, and costs less than a can of coke per day. As I have said before "if I believe it helps me, then it does". I definately do not subscribe to using diretics or laxatives. As you can see I have no problem with colonic cleansing - but not by using such things as POOP Dr :o I reckon they are hit and miss, whereas a proper colonic totally empties the colon and also excercises the colon muscles at the same time while making sure it takes on its correct shape. Much like a long thin balloon that might be full of little kinks that are removed by filling it up with air (or water). This is only my personal opinion of course and you may choose to disagree. My version of the detox sounds much like your statement above: "drinking more water, limiting processed foods, eating lots of raw and cooked vegetables, an assortment of fruits, whole grains, beans, and limiting meat to one 3 1/2 oz serving every other day." Except that for the first week at least, I eat ONLY lots of raw and cooked vegetables, an assortment of fruits and lots of water. I start to re-introduce some meat and fish and occasional red meat in the 2nd week. This is vastly different form my "normal" diet which contains just about every food and drink type known to man (but not much processed or junk food) 8) After 6 months of eating "normally" I find myself feeling bloated, get heartburn quite often (I was getting through Rennies like sweets and have not taken one now for 3 weeks), and start getting regular headaches. I have decided that from now on I am restricting bread, pasta, pastry and sugar from my "normal diet as I know it disagrees with me and I believe it contributes to my CH problem. The craving is the hardest part! anyway enough rambling for now...... John |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by jmorgan52 on Sep 16th, 2006, 2:59pm I just came across this post on Detox that I started in Sept 2002. I was a relative newbie back then 8) http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=medsarchive;action=print;num=1032443027 I was told to come back to this subject in 3 years time if I was still painfree, then I could start to call it my "cure" Well it's been 4 years since I posted and 4/12 years since I first did a detox to break my CH cycle, and I have been CH free apart from a 10 day cycle which I had over xmas/new year 2005 when I had relaxed from watching my diet every 6 months or so >:( Anyway I am still not ready to say it is a cure, but... 4 and a 1/2 years ain't bad hey? John |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by TheDude on Sep 18th, 2006, 6:26pm There is no herb, drug, or concoction that is a detoxifier. There are some that aid the process of detoxifying by helping your system expel material that hold onto toxins. Detoxifying comes from being aware of what you eat, drink, and are merry with, and the amounts we take in. That old saying, “garbage in, garbage out” or “you are what you eat”? Are more than just sayings. Society has evolved to instant gratification. We have no time. We want it now. Sorry, got to run. Thusly the need for food, fast and thusly the creation of fast food. Unfortunately, with convenience came the absence of proper nutrition and a new word emerged from the depths, “Supersize”. [smiley=moonwiggle.gif] We have become an obese society and being so, have developed medical conditions and allergies that are unique to our society. From Plato to Heinemann to Einstein, there are no absolutes in human involvement as there are as many variables as there are individuals to debate it. You will never not experience an accident because you do not control all the variables that can exist. What does this have to do with being a CH’er? Just the fact that no one means of treatment is the “absolute” treatment. Some reject the idea of trying herbs. Some reject the idea of using chemicals. Neither is right. Neither is wrong. It is a preference. The given attribute of having freedom of will and the freedom of choice. “Can’t we all just get along”? No, we can’t. We tolerate each other, to a point. [smiley=referee.gif] Thank you for listening. Tomorrow we’ll discus, “why is rain wet”. ::) The Dude [smiley=cool2.gif] |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by TheDude on Oct 10th, 2006, 11:43am Final update of this series. [smiley=winkkiss.gif] It has now been 43 days since my initial detoxifying. No headaches!! [smiley=sayyes.gif] I’ve started to slowly add some items I’ve restricted from my diet and no adverse results. [smiley=bow.gif] I also lost four pounds during this process, so there’s a side benefit. ;;D I have adopted an awareness of what I’m eating as an attempt to detour any future attacks. I’m still sugar busting as I feel it was a major component to my session. I look for products with Splenda instead of added sugars. Also, lower sodium products and no MSG. More white meat and green veggies. Once again I’m not stating this is a cure or the treatment of treatments. Just something I tried and appears to have had a positive result. It may work for you, it may not. You never know until you try and with these monsters, some of us are willing to try most anything, once. ::) I wish you the best of success in whichever treatment brings you relief. I’ll stop by from time to time to see how things are going. [smiley=bloos.gif] The Dude [smiley=cool2.gif] |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by andrewjb on Oct 10th, 2006, 8:25pm :). rave on "TheDude". andrew. |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by kcopelin on Oct 10th, 2006, 11:10pm I stopped counting the number of times BS or crap was used in this thread. [smiley=laugh.gif] Listen folks, on all sides of this issue, I got nothing against y'all trying anything you want. If a change in diet beats the beast-go for it! If spending large amounts of money on herbal or western medicinal products helps-go for it. If drinking water, energy drinks, gatorade, green tea, coffee, or jose cuervo helps, go for it. I try to eat healthy, I take meds that help lessen CH, and my colon probably is full of ...stuff. Still ain't gonna catch me goin to some professional and asking for a high colonic...sorry....childbirth was not that embarassing... However, I might try the low sugar/no sugar, lots of fresh vegies and fruit and lots of water . Sounds pretty healthy and harmless enough. Peace y'all, PFDAN kathy |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by jmorgan52 on Oct 11th, 2006, 4:09am Don't be such a baby Kathy ;) Anyway a colonic is pretty much optional, but is really no more embarrasing or uncomfortable than taking a shit, albeit with someone watching :-[ Anyway a detox is more about what you DON'T eat. Just ADDING water, fruit and veg will not really help. You need to cut out EVERYTHING ELSE for at least a week. Adding herbs or suppliments is probably also optional but again if you BELIEVE it will help it probably will. Fasting might even work better? If you are up to it that is. This is not BS or CRAP and it has worked for me for the past 4 and a 1/2 years. It may or may not work for you, but you will never know unless you try it will you? Or would you prefer to continue with the CH rather than give this a shot? What have you got to lose? When I was suffering badly I was ready to try just about anything to get rid of the pain as long as it was safe. The only thing in 40 years that has worked to stop a CH was imigran injections. And I tried all the other drugs the docs gave me (a very long list). The only thing in 40 years that has worked to BREAK a CH cycle is this detox method. Go figure. John |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by kcopelin on Oct 11th, 2006, 9:35am John, I wasn't calling this BS or crap-just commenting on the numjber of times those words were used. And yes, I will cut out everything else. A total fast? Can I still have strong coffe-black? kathy |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by jmorgan52 on Oct 12th, 2006, 2:18am Hi Kathy At least then you are open to the idea about detox as a method of breaking a cycle then? :) Fasting is way too hard for me. I doubt I could get past the first day :P I found that drinking my choice of "detox aid drink" sold here in SA as BePure, which contains spices and fruit extracts helped me to curb my appetite for the start of the detox so that I was not really hungry that much when I was just eating fruit and veg And anyway, Coffee is forbidden on a detox :'( John |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by rickyshot on Oct 12th, 2006, 11:51am There may be connections to the colon and various headaches but not neurological events such as strokes, TIA's, Migraines and ch which are not just headaches but events of which a killer headache is the primary symptom. I wish people would get it. Have tried the "detox's" full of shit in more than one way. I do like to do liver detox's after a cycle and have been on meds. I do think because we take a lot of meds even the natural ones like busting messes with our systems that a good liver and colon cleanse may be helpful with that. I do believe in eating healthy to avoid inflammation etc which contributes to our conditions but sorry not the cause of it. Inflammation is one of the symptoms. I blow up when in cycle no matter what I do. Yes the hypothalmus sounds like the best theory and I am sticking with that. Unfortunately there is not enough research in the cause of ch so we are stuck with migraine meds. I have said it before and said it again. CH and migraines are neurological events not just bad headaches. Too many snake oils out there. Poop dr indeed......... Talk about getting the shitty deal. ......... |
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Title: Re: Detoxifying Post by TheDude on Oct 12th, 2006, 11:55am I concur with John and a few others in their interpretations of “Detox”. In a nutshell, it is what you do and do not put into your body. Primarily, it’s an awareness that, for instance, too many Quarter Pounders w/ cheese may not be the best nutritional value you could be ingesting. Not that you can’t have a Quarter Pounder now and then. Just be aware of what you’re ingesting in relationship to everything else. It’s more a balance, of what you eat as to not overload on a particular venue (like all red meat, all the time). “Cleansing”, or the fun and favorite “Colonic Clean”, is when you know or suspect that you’ve lost track of what you’re ingesting and know or suspect you’ve been binge eating an unbalanced diet. You might want to flush any possibilities out of you to start clean. Kathy, sweetheart, you’re right. Some on this thread have stated that this methodology is “BS” and/or crap. As you’ve seen all throughout this site, some people take a difference in belief or methodology personally. They do not seem to realize that just because you do not believe in something does not mean you have to tear it down. I do not believe in Religion as a means to be a better person. I don’t tear into Religion as some scam humanly invented to be influential and controlling over the weak. For some people, religion is a benefit and some administrators do believe they are doing good. Good for them! Live and let live. For the majority, they’re not impeding on or threatening anyone’s personal rights or beliefs. And between you and me, even during my cleansing and detoxing, I drank strong, black coffee. I just cut back a bit (sorry, John). The Dude [smiley=cool2.gif] |
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