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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies >> My experiences with busting (bloggity)
        
(Message started by: rickyshot on Aug 11th, 2006, 7:54am)
Title: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by rickyshot on Aug 11th, 2006, 7:54am
Well folks today is D day. I will take my first dose of Hawaian Baby woodrose seeds tonite. I am staring off with two seeds. I am detoxed. I was allowed to take my siebellium a preventative and my syntrhoid. I am also allowed Advil or tylenol. Last week I started shadowing in my right eye and drank red bull each day for that. On Tuesday I got a migraine level four and aborted it with red bull. So far no hits of CH but my right eye is hurting today a shadow. I do not feel I am going into my cycle yet though. So that is where I stand on the status of CH. A good time to start dosing till see if it will ward off my expected cycle anytime between SEpt and Nove. If the cycle comes I am hoping for a better or improved one and abortive relief along with my O2.
I am in a good frame of mind , hopeful and excited. Sam my son will babysit me tonite for my first dose. I will take the recommended dose of skullcap mixed with orange juice 3 hours before. I will have some fruit fours hours before dosing, Can't eat 3 hours after dosing either. Maybe I will lose some weight in the process ;;D
Well family cheers. I will let y'all know how it went tomorrow.
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by LeLimey on Aug 11th, 2006, 9:26am
Good luck Ricky I'm sure you'll be fine!
I generally dose in the mornings, it works better for me. I then have lots I can do to keep busy during the day and I've never had any post dose hits that way.
Dosing in the evening I found I was sitting contemplating everything going on whether it could be related or not and I was just thinking too much!
I'm up to day ten of PF time and I'm looking forward to having you join me  ;;D
Anything you want, you know where we all are
Helen
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by rickyshot on Aug 11th, 2006, 9:31am
I work during the day so I want to see how I react ie sleepy. Can't feel worse than post dosing of Imitrex though . Or Prednisonde running around like a mad woman wanting to shoot someone. lol. I have worked through the craziest of symptoms and feeling more than like crapy. Anytime I take a new med or in this case a substance I start in the eves or weekends to see how things go. I plan to walk 15 k tomorrow morning and Sunday am too
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by rickyshot on Aug 11th, 2006, 9:34am
and Oh yeah who can forget that infamous week of Topamax when I nearly threw myself out the window at work and My gf came from half way across town to get me and my boss came running . They sat with me till the feeling passed and I went home with my gf who babysat me for the rest of the day. My neuro promptly told me to quit cold turkey. He was sad that I had a psychotic reaction from it because it was helping prevent headaches. Could not do anything else and was useless but no headaches sigh.......
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by pattik on Aug 11th, 2006, 9:50am
Good luck, Ricky.  For me a good time to dose was mid-afternoon.  I don't think it really matters as long as you do it on an empty stomach.  Here's hoping this will stop an episode before it starts.  ;)

Patti
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by Carl1958 on Aug 11th, 2006, 10:00am
Good luck Ricky.... ;)

Walk in the park mate....As us Brits say.

Be well.
CArl. 8)
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by kcopelin on Aug 11th, 2006, 10:18am
Ricky I am so rooting for ya.  I really pray this does the job!  Keep us posted, okay?

PFDAN,
kathy
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by nani on Aug 11th, 2006, 11:32am
Go, girl! Keeping my fingers crossed for ya! Be sure to keep us posted.
hugs and pf wishes, nani
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by Sandy_C on Aug 11th, 2006, 12:19pm
Good luck, GF!  I've got fingers and toes crossed for you.  Keep us posted.

Sandy
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by rickyshot on Aug 11th, 2006, 8:37pm
I just dosed at 8:00 and in five minutes I felt "something" very mellow and colors are a little brighter. I think I got the equivalent of two seeds. I had a hard time getting the goodies out the husks so I did three seeds. I feel just slightly nauseous but really it is nothing compared to other meds I have taken. Wow my eye pain went away. This is great. Just the beginning. I expect a very long "trip" and very mellow. I am listening to good reggae music. If this is it I could work under these conditions. I am not fuzzy, confused or sleepy yet. Not fucked up at all after the first 1/2 hour. BTW I took my skullcap 20 min before dosing as recommended.
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by pattik on Aug 11th, 2006, 8:55pm
[smiley=thumb.gif]  An update in real time....wonderful (hummming "I can see clearly now..." ;;D
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by LeLimey on Aug 11th, 2006, 9:24pm
Its amazing isn't it Ricky? You expect to "feel" something but you don't and then you wonder what you were so worried about.. at least I did!
I felt like the worlds biggest steamin' great jessie for having been so afraid of it and that feeling of "emptiness" with no pain.. well I was going to say what I think it's better than but best not eh?!  ;) ;;D
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by Carl1958 on Aug 12th, 2006, 6:02am

on 08/11/06 at 20:37:32, rickyshot wrote:
I just dosed at 8:00 and in five minutes I felt "something" very mellow

I am listening to good reggae music.  


Hello Ricky,
                I would be interested to know if you had any feelings of warmth/heat at the back of your head please.


Also next time try a good DVD.
Shiney sides best.  ;)

ATB.
CArl.
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by Sandy_C on Aug 12th, 2006, 9:45am
Isn't feeling mellow so..so.. well, "mellow" .   :)  Keep us posted - my crossed fingers and toes are starting to cramp up!   ;;D

Hugs

Sandy
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by kcopelin on Aug 12th, 2006, 11:23am
All right Ricky!   How'd it go, good night?  PF?  Sleep good?  Inquiring minds want to know?  I hope and pray that you  are totally pain free right now, and too blissed out to post ;;D
kathy
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by kissmyglass on Aug 12th, 2006, 4:14pm
Good Luck!!
:-* :-*

Kev
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by Sandy_C on Aug 13th, 2006, 8:26am
Ricky???  Where are you????

Please post to us and let us know how you're doing.

We love you!

Sandy
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by nani on Aug 13th, 2006, 12:59pm
Yes, Ricky...update please! I hope that you're out having a great time, because your head feels so good.  :D
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by rickyshot on Aug 13th, 2006, 2:17pm
Good Sunday afternoon. Well I had a very good "trip". No side effects whatsoever. Just mellow like 2-3 drinks. I felt no heat on my neck or head or anything else. My sons were with me and read the info on clusterbusters. My oldest son is very smart and digested the info right away and was explaing what was happening to me as he used to smoke MJ and once took LSD. They were playing TV and videos on the computer. I was a little giddy but after awhile it was too much stimulation for me and I went to bed at midnite. Got up Saturday  morning and felt great and no "hangover" effect. I took the Vit C as recommended and went for my four hour training walk. Well Shit don't you know during my walk I get a migraine level 5. I slammed a red bull and it subsided a little. I finished the walk and went home and it ramped up again for the next 12 hours :'( :'( It was migraine not CH as I would lay down and it was hours. I suffer both and I KNOW the difference. I feel no episode coming at all yet as it is too early still for my CH. Well not too bore you as this is a CH board but my migraines are from hell that is all you have to know and could go on for days to weeks. I took 3 motrin another red bull, no relief. Finally slept a few hours. Woke up still with it and went back to bed at midnite again. I took an extra siebiellim my preventative which I am still allowed to take when busting and this maked me more "drunk" than busting. I woke up feeling groggy but after an hour it subsided and so far no head pain, just a slight migriane shadow.

So here is the thing. I plan to give this therapy six months hook or crook to see how if at all it affects migraine for which I am chronic and my episode of CH. Will the episode be delayed? Will it be shorter, more bearable?. Will this abort some hits>

Questions: Friday was my dose. Is the fifth day counted as Wednesday or Thursday. I will dose again.
If I get a breakthrough headache between doses can I put some of the powder under my tongue to try to abort. I know I can't dose again within five days. Should I ramp up my next dose to four seeds. I did three.
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by Sandy_C on Aug 13th, 2006, 5:38pm

on 08/13/06 at 14:17:37, rickyshot wrote:
Questions: Friday was my dose. Is the fifth day counted as Wednesday or Thursday. I will dose again.
If I get a breakthrough headache between doses can I put some of the powder under my tongue to try to abort. I know I can't dose again within five days. Should I ramp up my next dose to four seeds. I did three.


Wednesday night.  Don't know about ramping up the dose, though, check with the clusterbuster gurus.

Check your PM's

Love ya

Sandy
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by rickyshot on Aug 14th, 2006, 9:13am
Well it is Monday am and I am feeling OK. A little groggy from the Siebeillim. I am hoping for a good day.
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by javi_spain on Aug 14th, 2006, 10:12am
Migraine AND Cluster...  :(

Good luck Ricky.
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by rickyshot on Aug 14th, 2006, 10:57am
Oh and I have added Taurine to my arsenal. 500 mg three times a day. The red bull is expensive and so are those other energy drinks. Plus the caffeine in the red bull might give rebound headaches. I will use that for a headache or hit.  ONe month supply of Taurine 10.00. One red bull 3.99. You do the math.
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by nani on Aug 14th, 2006, 11:02am
Ricky, I think you should ask Flo about mixing Taurine with your calcium channel blocker. He says you shouldn't mix taurine and verap, the same reasoning might apply to the Siebeillim. Especially since your BP is normally low. pf wishes and fingers crossed, nani
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by kissmyglass on Aug 14th, 2006, 11:15am

on 08/14/06 at 09:13:32, rickyshot wrote:
Well it is Monday am and I am feeling OK. A little groggy from the Siebeillim.  


I think it's less the Siebeillim and more talking someones phone to death at all hours of the night  ;;D
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by kcopelin on Aug 14th, 2006, 11:24am
Aw Ricky, CH and migraines...that sucks.  Do keep trying the clusterbusters for CH-at least you can kick CH butt.  Still praying the very best pain free times for you friend!
Kathy
P.S. I also got the taurine tabs-am taking 2 a day but think I might go up to 3-they really are cheaper than the energy drinks!
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by Pinkfloyd on Aug 14th, 2006, 11:31am

on 08/13/06 at 14:17:37, rickyshot wrote:
So here is the thing. I plan to give this therapy six months hook or crook to see how if at all it affects migraine for which I am chronic and my episode of CH. Will the episode be delayed? Will it be shorter, more bearable?. Will this abort some hits>


Hi Ricky,
The answers to all the above are: Hopefully. You have the odds in your favor.
I have always been of the opinion that people that are migraine-prone can have their migraines triggered by clusters and vice-versa. We have very little information on how LSA will affect migraines.
I do believe though that cutting back on the numbers of clusters, and the amounts of medications we all end up using, will help the migraine situation, even if LSA itself doesn't. JMHO.


on 08/13/06 at 14:17:37, rickyshot wrote:
Questions: Friday was my dose. Is the fifth day counted as Wednesday or Thursday. I will dose again.
If I get a breakthrough headache between doses can I put some of the powder under my tongue to try to abort. I know I can't dose again within five days. Should I ramp up my next dose to four seeds. I did three.


Friday night to Wednesday night would be the 5 day period. People need to remember, that the SPUT method IS a dose. It "seems" that these interum small doses may not interfere with the larger doses as much as with psilocybin but, again, we have less data to date.
The difference between the RCs and the HBWR seeds is their potency. Its easier to put a "little" powder from RCs under your tongue, than a "little" powder from HBWR. A full dose of HBWR IS just a little powder. So...if you use this method to abort a bad cluster, be careful.

If you can abort any breakthroughs between now and your next dose by using either 02, or ginger, or the Taurine, I would suggest you do that. It'll provide more of that "shock" to the system when you do another full dose. If you need the SPUTs.....go for it. It's something you'll be the best to judge. Alot will depend on how long the cluster attacks will now be compared to before, and how intense. Its one thing if you can banish the pain in 10 minutes with a method other than Sputting.

I would not increase the dose based upon your description of how things went on your first. At least not at this point. This may change based upon your need or lack of need, for interum SPUTS.

I still believe in the 5 day break, even for the seeds, if possible, for many reasons. But that is something some people have had to work their way toward. OTOH, this 5 day period is a minimum. It sometimes takes that long to see all the benefits the dose may have had. If you find yourself quietly deep in a book wednesday night and suddenly realize you haven't had any pain in three days...do not run for the HBWR seeds. Go back to the book ;-)

Good luck. Thanks for the detailed reports.
Bobw
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by nani on Aug 14th, 2006, 11:32am

on 08/14/06 at 11:24:00, kcopelin wrote:
Do keep trying the clusterbusters for CH-at least you can kick CH butt.  


Actually, kathy, CB can also be very effective for migraines as well.
edited to add: well, at least psilocybin is. (thanks, Bob) My sister and my daughter use it to abort migraines. So far, neither has tried it as a prevent.
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by rickyshot on Aug 14th, 2006, 1:17pm
Pink You have been very helpful. I forgot about the ginger powder. Can I use fresh ginger and make a strong tea instead of the powder?

So in spite of my breakthrough migraine on Saturday I will not dose again for a month unless I get another headache. I will do the same dose. I am keeping a diary.

Funny you mention ch causing migraines. I have always had both so it is the chicken or egg thing. When in cycle for ch I don't know if I am coming or going Now the migraines can get quite nasty leading to hospitalization because of paralysis and/or just really not being able to walk or function. If it gets to that can I go back to DHE after a five day or more period of busting and then detox from the DHE to start busing all over again? The DHE has given me long periods of feeling good but it is a powerful drug and I worry. I would like for busting to work, It would be so much better.

Thanks all for your support and concerns.
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by rickyshot on Aug 14th, 2006, 1:21pm

on 08/14/06 at 11:15:25, kissmyglass wrote:
I think it's less the Siebeillim and more talking someones phone to death at all hours of the night  ;;D


And it was worth it.  ;)
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by Sandy_C on Aug 14th, 2006, 5:30pm
Somehow I've missed the ginger powder treatment since I started with the seeds.  You use it as an interim help?  How is it supposed to be taken?  Can someone point me to a link so I can read up?

Thanks

Sandy
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by Pinkfloyd on Aug 14th, 2006, 7:02pm

on 08/14/06 at 17:30:16, Sandy_C wrote:
 You use it as an interim help?  How is it supposed to be taken?  Can someone point me to a link so I can read up?


http://www.clusterbusters.com/faq.html#4

scroll down to section 4.1.6.4 Ginger

cheers,
Bobw
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by Pinkfloyd on Aug 14th, 2006, 7:16pm

on 08/14/06 at 13:17:33, rickyshot wrote:
Pink You have been very helpful. I forgot about the ginger powder. Can I use fresh ginger and make a strong tea instead of the powder?


What I know about Ginger can be found on the link I supplied on the post above.....and from reruns of Gilligan's Island.


on 08/14/06 at 13:17:33, rickyshot wrote:
Now the migraines can get quite nasty leading to hospitalization because of paralysis and/or just really not being able to walk or function.  


Were you ever diagnosed with BAM or discussed this with your doctor?


on 08/14/06 at 13:17:33, rickyshot wrote:
If it gets to that can I go back to DHE after a five day or more period of busting and then detox from the DHE to start busing all over again?  


Hopefully you won't need that but if you do, and it works....you should do what works.
You shouldn't have to decide between treating your clusters more effectively at the expense of making treatment of your migraines worse.

Bobw
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by javi_spain on Aug 15th, 2006, 5:09am

on 08/14/06 at 11:32:42, nani wrote:
Actually, kathy, CB can also be very effective for migraines as well.
edited to add: well, at least psilocybin is. (thanks, Bob) My sister and my daughter use it to abort migraines. So far, neither has tried it as a prevent.


For what is worth: Dr. House (the medical maverick of the TV drama) used LSD in one chapter to treat his own  nytroglycerin-induced migraine.

For the fans: This happened in the episode "Distractions"

Cuddy: "Hey, did you drop acid?"
House: "Why would I do that?"
Cuddy: "To annoy me, or maybe because you're miserable, or... because you... want to self-destruct. Pick one."
House: "How about because LSD acts on serotonin receptors in the brain which can stop a migraine in its tracks? I'm just saying that's also a possibility. How did you know about it?"


When I saw this on the telly it immediately brought clusterbusters to mind.

Regards
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by Sandy_C on Aug 15th, 2006, 8:21am
Thanks for the ginger link, Bob.  I completely forgot about using ginger.  I'll give it a try when I get home tonight!

Sandy
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by rickyshot on Aug 15th, 2006, 8:38am
Well Tues and I feel alright this am but it is early. Last night my right eye was hurting at a level 3 again. It pain, pokes and tears and itches in the corner and burns all at the same time. This eye thing was a new developement for me last year and they ruled out temporal arteritus. Also that is the first time in 22 years it went to my right side which does not produce bad headaches but crazy other symptoms as mentioned above. It is sort of like an occular migraine. I consider it a type of shadow of things to come so I think I will do another dose tomorrow eve if I still shadow today..
I gotta go look for some ginger powder . I think I will go to the bulk store to get it.

At least at present I am PF and not shadowing.
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by rickyshot on Aug 15th, 2006, 8:45am
Pink I never got the offical dx of BAM but I am sure I have that as well. I had a TIA four years ago directly linked to migraine activity that was going on for two weeks. I was hemiplegic for hours and lost speech (not the first time that happened) and when "recovered" my face on the right side and right arm was numb and my speech was slurred for rive days. I made full recovery but I walk slower than I used to and my right side is weaker only noticeable to me when I do weights at the gym. Use to be stronger. I understand there is no treatment for BAM . I do take baby aspirin each day.
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by rickyshot on Aug 15th, 2006, 9:38am
OK. Talked too soon. I got the eye thing going on again. It will stay all day. What the hell is it? My neuro thinks is was a form of my complicated migraine. I can function go to the gym etc. No other symptoms. I will get the ginger tonite. Since my neuro thinks this is part of migraine I will bust again tomorrow.
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by LeLimey on Aug 15th, 2006, 9:54am
Rcky there are treatments for BAM. The one thing you shouldn't use though are triptans as they can be hugely dangerous with BAM.
Anyway meds that do work are tri-cyclic antidepressants TCA's) such as amitriptylene and nortriptylene, beta-blockers such as propranalol, calcium channel blockers such as verapamil, and anti-convulsants like Depakote for instance.
You do have options for and with BAM, don't suffer if you don't need to!
Just be aware while busting to be careful of what you mix together and always seek advice ok?
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by Margi on Aug 15th, 2006, 10:26am

on 08/14/06 at 11:32:42, nani wrote:
My sister and my daughter use it to abort migraines. So far, neither has tried it as a prevent.


I have, unwittingingly.  Just grinding up the shrooms for the tea for Mike years ago, kept my migraines at bay for six months.  Apparently, I absorbed enough through my fingertips to do the trick.  
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by rickyshot on Aug 15th, 2006, 11:14am
I have taken amytriptaline before. Nothing. I have taken verap and my pressure gets too low. I run 90/60 normally. I cannot take depkote, neurontin they did nothing. I cannot take topomax as I had a psychotic reaction from it. My preventative is Siebellium which is a calcium channel blocker but does not lower blood pressure. For aborting migraines I use to take a litany of triptans which sometime worked more often not. I would end up in ER for IV meds .

Now DHE was my friend. It felt like battery acid going in and I would get a couple a bad breakthrough headaches but then weeks to months of PF times. Problem is it is a heavy duty med and I am worried. That is why I am trying busting.

For aborting CH I would take oxygen, Imitrex or ER for solumedrol and DHE.

Heart disease runs straight through my family. I worry about these meds and my heart. I am 52.

i am quite a case because not only am I a bad one , not many drugs have worked and some have caused absolute problems.

Now I know I have spoken extensively about migraines and this is a CH board. But I am not in cycle yet and am due between sept and Nove. It will be interesting to see what happens while busting with the CH. Being episodic I wait in fear and horror. That is nutz. Nothing like having the migraines and ch at the same time.  >:(
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by rickyshot on Aug 15th, 2006, 11:16am
Oh God Margi You give me hope.............

I am glad I am getting so much response to this thread. Y'all are great.
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by Pinkfloyd on Aug 15th, 2006, 4:06pm
Hi Ricky,
I'm glad you've investigated BAM. Sorry you have the symptoms you have but I just wanted to make sure you were aware.

Don't worry about the migraine police...just use BAM and they won't know we're talking about migraines.  ;;D
A couple of BAM BAMs and they'll be fantacizing about Wilma Flintstone and become all discombobulated.


Yes, there are BAM treatments available, not that they work for everyone or even a majority. Even more seriously in complicated cases like this, the contraindications are as important, or more so, then the indications. (as Helen pointed out)


You are one complicated lady, eh!!  ;)

be well,
Bobw
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by rickyshot on Aug 15th, 2006, 7:13pm
Yes my neuro said I was one of the worst cases he ever saw. He must love me for research. It is sad because I wonder how my life would have been without so much pain and suffering. My eye pain went away this am and I feel great so I won't bust tomorrow. I will leave shadows alone. I will bust next month or if a real ha or bad symptoms come along. Usually when my eye acts up that spells trouble a coming. I am curious to see if that one dose is affecting all of this. Outside of Saturday from hell I am doing very good. I wonder if busting brings on a couple of breakthroughs for me like the DHE did and then complete bliss. Please God............
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by rickyshot on Aug 16th, 2006, 8:47am
Good Wednesday morning. I am PF and no eye thingie or shadows. Oh bliss............I could not get to the store last eve so this eve I am definitely going for the ginger powder. You know all this shit is expensive when it adds up. Besides my preventative which is covered by my insurance and my O2 is covered too all the supplements, Magnesium, B vits, Taurine, ginger powder and HBRW seeds really add up. OK the seeds and ginger are dirt cheap but the other shit hoo boy. In the old days I would have been finished. I had no insurance or money (I was homeless remember?) and the first 10 years of this I was mostly uncontrolled and violent with it all. A nightmare.

Just musing here........I am grateful to God for the ability to get what I need now, my new home and finding y'all with some answers.
Title: Re: My experiences with busting (bloggity)
Post by Sandy_C on Aug 16th, 2006, 10:56am
Everything I have is still crossed for you Ricky.  I'm glad you're feeling good today - and praying that every day just keeps on getting better!  I'm so sorry that you are having so much trouble with your migraines - let's hope the busting defeats them too.

I think my Friday rc seeds may have stopped my cycle - the verdict is still out.  It took a few days for the symptoms to back down - and yesterday and today I have no symptoms at all anymore.  Maybe this busting stuff has a lot of merit!

Hugs to you and hang in there.

Sandy


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