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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies >> LSA RC seed Question
        
(Message started by: daver on Aug 10^th, 2006, 7:32pm)

Title: LSA RC seed Question
Post by daver on Aug 10^th, 2006, 7:32pm

Hi all...

Am taking the plunge with RC seeds and have a couple of questions which I hope can be resolved.

I have Rivea corymbosa seeds but they have also been called Mexican Morning Glory...I have seen that some websites state that Morning Glory seeds are different than RC seeds... does anyone know if there is a difference between RC seeds and Mexcan Morning Glory?

I am also a bit confused regarding whether to crush the whole seed or try to husk them, from CBusters I gather that with RC seeds the whole thing can be crushed and consumed.

The last Q. is about dosage, again I have seen 5-8 seeds to start and have also read 15-20. This is a radical difference so I want to be sure. 5-8 is my guess but the 15-20 confused me.

Any help is much appreciated.

D.

Title: Re: LSA RC seed Question
Post by Katherinecm on Aug 10^th, 2006, 8:17pm

Ugh, don't you hate it when you type out a long reply and your computer crashes?

I have no idea on the Mexican Morning Glory question- I'd take a close look at photos of RC seeds and make sure they match what you have- Morning Glory seeds have far less LSA and far more toxins, and I'd hate for you to write off something that might work for you because you have the wrong thing.

On how many seeds to start with: the idea is that you want to find the smallest number of seeds that will work well for you. Larger doses don't work any better than the smallest effective dose, and because we are experimenting on ourselves we want to be as safe as possible. Not to mention, it's a waste of money to take too many.

To my knowledge no one has overdosed on RC seeds or had anything worse than a stomachache as a side effect. However, morning glory seeds ARE related, and it wasn't too long ago I was reading some news story on fark.com about high school kids overdosing on morning glory seeds: apparently they are such a potent vasoconstrictor that too much can cause tissue death in the extremities that lead to amputation. So clearly, the most responsible thing to do is to find the lowest effective dose to start with.

However, there have been some irresponsible people (like me) who are chronic and figured from reading posts about it that the most effective lowest dose for most people appears to be approximately 15 seeds. Being arguably stupid and unquestionably desperate, I started there to see if RC seeds would have ANY effect at all. I wasn't interested in wasting weeks if they didn't work. Dumb? Possibly. I found out pretty quickly they would have some effect, however I have had some questionable results since then. I think this is because my second order of seeds was bad.

Oh, btw, a few people have had much better luck taking the seeds more often: as much as twice a day, in smaller doses, or even using 2-3 powdered seeds sublingually as an abortive when they get hit. You may want to search the boards for RC seed posts to get some ideas.

Hope that helps...

Modified to add: I crush the seeds with some pliers then grind them in an electric spice grinder/coffee mill that I ONLY use for RC seeds- crushing them first seems to make them grind finer. You can then soak the powdered seeds. I swallow the seeds after soaking too, although some people don't. The ones that need hulled are HBWR seeds.

Title: Re: LSA RC seed Question
Post by MJ on Aug 10^th, 2006, 10:11pm

on 08/10/06 at 19:32:35, daver wrote:

I have Rivea corymbosa seeds but they have also been called Mexican Morning Glory...I have seen that some websites state that Morning Glory seeds are different than RC seeds... does anyone know if there is a difference between RC seeds and Mexcan Morning Glory?

I am also a bit confused regarding whether to crush the whole seed or try to husk them, from CBusters I gather that with RC seeds the whole thing can be crushed and consumed.

The last Q. is about dosage, again I have seen 5-8 seeds to start and have also read 15-20. This is a radical difference so I want to be sure. 5-8 is my guess but the 15-20 confused me.

Any help is much appreciated.

D.

Where did you buy them?

Rivea corymbosa or ololiugui seeds are a close relative of morning glory.

Morning glory are very small seeds. one ounce yields about 750 seeds with many varieties and are sold by weight.
http://www.iamshaman.com/eshop/10Expand.asp?ProductUID=1839&ProductCode=MGB-1OZ

RC seeds are usually sold by the count and a 2 inch sguare would yield about 100 RC seeds.

http://www.iamshaman.com/eshop/10Expand.asp?ProductUID=1852&ProductCode=RVC-50

RC Seeds should be crushed and soaked and you can consume the works.

Its highly reccomended that you begin with the minimal dosage of 4-8 seeds stated by cluster busters. http://www.clusterbusters.com/faqlsa.htm This will allow you to test your tolerance and be aware if any adverse effects may occur.

What works for one may not be the same for another.
Remember we are not dosing under properly prescribed medical methods for Cluster headaches. Most of what we hear on the seeds is just personal experience.

Any more questions just ask.

Best of luck to you and keep us posted.

Title: Re: LSA RC seed Question
Post by Katherinecm on Aug 10^th, 2006, 10:43pm

on 08/10/06 at 22:11:24, MJ wrote:

Where did you buy them?

...

The bad ones came from Iamshaman. The ones that worked came from an ebay seller named zanedrake33.

Title: Re: LSA RC seed Question
Post by Pinkfloyd on Aug 10^th, 2006, 11:48pm

Good job on the advice people! ;;D

Bobw

Title: Re: LSA RC seed Question
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Aug 10^th, 2006, 11:58pm

on 08/10/06 at 23:48:45, Pinkfloyd wrote:

Good job on the advice people! ;;D

Bobw

We have a great prof, Bob.
Thank you!!
B$

Title: Re: LSA RC seed Question
Post by daver2 on Aug 11^th, 2006, 10:52am

Thank you all for your responses...I love this site!

From all of your replies, it would appear that based on size I do have the proper RC seeds.

I ground 5 of them up last night, soaked them and consumed (husks and all...ty again for the advice). Passed my normal 9:00pm CH with only some slight shadows, nothing concrete but a slight threat.

Went to bed around 10:30 feeling fine, really didn't feel any noticeable effects the whole evening except for the lack of CH :)

woke about 12:30 which is when i would typically get woken up with a pretty nasty CH but was delighted to find my head was clear and feeling great. I had some trouble sleeping throught the night, I think I was mentally monitoring the status of my head!

Woke up this morning feeling great, also missed my regular "good morning! CH", so things are generally looking good. As I write this i have very faint possible shadow but nothing that alarms me.

Fingers are crossed that this might work for me to break my cycle (I'm early days with this cycle so I'm hoping it's not 'set' yet and will be easier to break). In hindsight I think I would have taken more, 8-10 myabe, we'll see if I have to dose again in the next little bit.

I have done the shroom therapy, and it worked quite well for me, but I find them very hard to procure which makes them impractical for proper maintenance. and the taste was starting to kill me...lol.

Any advice on timing for next dose, maintenance, etc...?

Thanks again to everyone for your help, it was truly invaluable. Fingers are crossed.

D.

Title: Re: LSA RC seed Question
Post by daver2 on Aug 11^th, 2006, 10:54am

Almost forgot....

I got them a store called The Sacred Seed here in Toronto, I didn't want to wait for shipping.

D.

Title: Re: LSA RC seed Question
Post by nani on Aug 11^th, 2006, 11:17am

on 08/11/06 at 10:52:58, daver2 wrote:

Any advice on timing for next dose, maintenance, etc...?

You'll probably want to wait at least 5 days, D. Although, it's more important to judge this by the level of activity you're feeling. If it comes back, then dose. If it doesn't... wait until it does.
pf wishes, nani

Title: Re: LSA RC seed Question
Post by rickyshot on Aug 11^th, 2006, 11:29am

Yes Nani. That is how I plan to dose. No symptoms no dose except for every three month maintainence (Oh please God let that happen) or every five days as needed

Title: Re: LSA RC seed Question
Post by daver2 on Aug 11^th, 2006, 11:35am

Nani, thanks for your reply.

Is the reason for the 5 days similar to the one for shrooms, or if symptoms persist can the frequency be sooner...or are we not sure yet?

D.

Title: Re: LSA RC seed Question
Post by nani on Aug 11^th, 2006, 11:40am

Well, the theory behind waiting 5 days is based on the fact that dosing more often will affect the efficacy. Hallucinogenics become useless (even recreationally) if you take them too often. This is also why they are "counter addictive"...you just can't use too much, because it stops doing anything. (There are so many people here who could explain this better, LOL)
Some people have tried dosing a little bit everyday, but their results were not very good. 5 days seems to be just about right.
Are you set up with abortives in the meantime? Oxygen, Red Bull, etc?

Title: Re: LSA RC seed Question
Post by kcopelin on Aug 11^th, 2006, 6:38pm

Not meant to infer anything here, but the two times I have ordered HBWR from iamshaman more were burnt/dead/inert than not. Gave up on the whole deal. Will get rc seeds from someplace else.
k

Title: Re: LSA RC seed Question
Post by MJ on Aug 12^th, 2006, 3:06am

Dosing question.

on 08/11/06 at 11:40:35, nani wrote:

Well, the theory behind waiting 5 days is based on the fact that dosing more often will affect the efficacy. Hallucinogenics become useless (even recreationally) if you take them too often. This is also why they are "counter addictive"...you just can't use too much, because it stops doing anything.

Some people have tried dosing a little bit everyday, but their results were not very good. 5 days seems to be just about right.

From the U.S. DEA referencing LSD
" tolerance to the drug develops rapidly if used daily, rendering its repeated ingestion useless, and cannot be overcome by ingestion of increased dosages."

Is there a difference with LSA? I'm not sure.

Nanis earlier post - "You'll probably want to wait at least 5 days, D. Although, it's more important to judge this by the level of activity you're feeling. If it comes back, then dose. If it doesn't... wait until it does." makes perfect sense.

In other words if you dont need it dont take it.

I did dose with RC seeds on a twice daily and continuous basis for a period of 7 days with a low and decreasing dosage while trying to bust a very nasty, well set, but normal episode.
I did this only because a single dosing for me only partially relieved my CH and as soon as a single dose wore off I was right back where I started.
This method results worked exceptionally well for me and let me join the pain free society, but I am certainly not reccomending it for anyone. Just an opposing view for Nani ;)

Hopefully Daver the one dose will do the job.

Title: Re: LSA RC seed Question
Post by Sandy_C on Aug 12^th, 2006, 10:02am

I've been dosing with rc seeds once a month for the past several months as a maintenance/preventative program in the hopes of completely avoiding my next cycle. I got my seeds from Iamshaman. I began with 11 seeds (can't remember exactly why that number?), and never felt anything what so ever. Since I was not in cycle, I had no way of knowing if they were going to do anything at all to stop my next cycle. About two weeks ago, I re-ordered from Iamshaman.

Well, yesterday, I started with shadows, ice picks and a sagging eyelid. Last night I did my usual 11 seeds, and WOW - there was a big difference in my reactions. Within 15 minutes I felt light-headed, real "floaty", and as though not all of my oars were in the water. Not at all uncomfortable or unpleasant - just "floaty". Fell asleep on the couch very early, woke up thirsty still floating, got some water and went to bed. This morning, still a little shaky - again nothing unpleasant. Eyelid is pretty much back in place, no ice picks, but still light shadowing. Obviously, either the first batch was bad, or there is a major difference in batches??? Cause this batch seems to be pretty darned good.

I've drunk about a whole pot of strong black coffee, and right now I'm sipping on a Red Bull, and have got the shakes from an overdose of caffeine I'm sure.

I'm in a holding pattern now waiting to see what's next. If this is my cycle starting I'll dose again in 5 days, if things settle back down, I won't.

I'll keep you posted.

Sandy

Title: Re: LSA RC seed Question
Post by kcopelin on Aug 12^th, 2006, 11:18am

Aw Sandy, sorry your getting hit at all. Hope these RC seeds do the trick...I got some really dead HBRW seeds from that particular supplier and will get my RC seeds somewhere else. Sounds like you got an active batch-hope it totally kicks butt!
PFDAN
Kathy

Title: Re: LSA RC seed Question
Post by Sandy_C on Aug 13^th, 2006, 8:42am

This morning is better. Only very light shadows. Sipping my third cup of coffee, and the Red Bull is chillin in the fridge. We even went over to a friend's house last night and I tempted the beast with a couple of lite beers - nothing ;;D. - just shadows. Hopefully this is just a phantom and not the beginning of my cycle, but so far, so good (she says VERY hopefully)

Sandy

Title: Re: LSA RC seed Question
Post by Garys_Girl on Aug 13^th, 2006, 7:06pm

Helpful tip from friends at CB:

When you plan to dose, take the seeds you plan to dose with and float them in water before you crush them for use. If they sink - they're viable. If they float, they're not. Use the sinkers. Don't float them until you're ready to use them.

Laurie

Title: Re: LSA RC seed Question
Post by tommyD on Aug 13^th, 2006, 8:44pm

Quote:

When you plan to dose, take the seeds you plan to dose with and float them in water before you crush them for use. If they sink - they're viable. If they float, they're not. Use the sinkers. Don't float them until you're ready to use them.

I would say that’s more an experiment than a tip.

It’s an old gardener’s trick to float seeds in water and plant the ones that sink as the ones more likely to be viable, that is, to sprout. The experiment is to see if this trick can be used to judge the potency (LSA content) of the seeds, speculating that fresher seeds are likely to be moister and denser and thus more likely to sink than older, drier seeds. So far, we don’t know if the float trick works for potency.

-tommyD

Title: Re: LSA RC seed Question
Post by Garys_Girl on Aug 14^th, 2006, 4:39pm

Thanks for the clarification. :)

Just an FYI - we did try HBWR seeds. They seemed to do nothing but make Gary throw up. He had terrible hits afterwards. At first we thought post-dose hits - but then it seemed it was just the cycle continuing as there was no distinguishable change in pattern.

We tried the floater test with the rest of the seeds we had just the other day. They all floated. I think they were old (definitely VERY dry) - and it sure seems like they had no potency.

Not scientific, not definitive to be sure - but going forward we're working on the assumption that there is a relationship between viability and potentcy.