Clusterheadaches.com Message Board


    
      
        Clusterheadaches.com Message Board
        (http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi)
      

        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies >> Follow-up on previoius low testosterone topic
        
(Message started by: Squanto on Jul 27^th, 2006, 4:05pm)

Title: Follow-up on previoius low testosterone topic
Post by Squanto on Jul 27^th, 2006, 4:05pm

Back in June (06) there was a topic/thread on this board about an abstract of an article in Headache ( Journal of ...) regarding a study in which several patients with CH and low testosterone were treated with testosterone supplements and their headaches improved.
http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=meds;action=display;num=1149779192

I'm seriously considering paying the $40+ bucks to get the complete article (not just the abstract. )

A couple of guys wrote here that they were going to talk to their Neuro's about it. I've discussed this with an endocrinologist who is reluctant to jump in without more info.

Has anyone here?
1) read the full article
2) had any benefit from testosterone supplementation?

Comments? Discussion?

TIA
Squanto

Title: Re: Follow-up on previoius low testosterone topic
Post by Bob_Johnson on Jul 27^th, 2006, 4:45pm

Usually--your public library can get the full article for free or $5-10. Take the citation to them and ask.

Title: Re: Follow-up on previoius low testosterone topic
Post by mr.c on Jul 28^th, 2006, 10:49am

Men that are bald/balding (I prefer the term "Scalp Gifted") have higher levels of testosterone than their "Hair Gifted" brothers.

CH sufferers have less testosterone than their PF brothers.

Okay, I am balding and a CH sufferer.

Man, talk about your double whammy! >:(

Title: Re: Follow-up on previoius low testosterone topic
Post by floridian on Jul 28^th, 2006, 11:09am

on 07/28/06 at 10:49:40, mr.c wrote:

Actually, male pattern baldness is associated with high levels of a break down product of testosterone (DHT). Testosterone itself is not to blame, and not everyone converts lots of testosterone to DHT ... some people just don't know what to do with their excess hormones. 8)

Title: Re: Follow-up on previoius low testosterone topic
Post by Squanto on Jul 28^th, 2006, 4:56pm

I "bit the bullet" and paid for a copy of the "Headache Journal" article.
(Damn, it frosts me to have to pay for something that used to be free.)

Anyway, I'm still digesting the contents and have passed a copy along to my endocrinologist friend.

So far, my perusal suggests that some folks (there were only 9 subjects in the test group) responded quickly to injections of testosterone by either reverting from chronic to episodic or having remissions. A couple of others couldn't tolerate the hormone for various reasons. If testosterone replacement is a short course dosage or will be required for the long haul isn't totally clear to me.

I sure seems to me, that the adverse effects of other CH treatment modailities, for example lithium, Imitrex, and dopimax, etc (except maybe for O2) are on a par with or worse than potential adverse effects of short course testosterone.

Since delivery pf my order for another grow kit from Amazing Nature got intercepted and confiscated by Customs, I'm looking for alternatives to the alternatives. (Oh yeah, before you ask, I've tried the seeds. They don't work for me)

I'll stay in touch.
Squanto

Title: Re: Follow-up on previoius low testosterone topic
Post by JJA on Jul 28^th, 2006, 9:13pm

on 07/28/06 at 16:56:36, Squanto wrote:

Sorry Squanto. I just lost my online access to journals about a month ago. No one should have to live this way.

on 07/28/06 at 16:56:36, Squanto wrote:

Since delivery pf my order for another grow kit from Amazing Nature got intercepted and confiscated by Customs, I'm looking for alternatives to the alternatives. (Oh yeah, before you ask, I've tried the seeds. They don't work for me)

I'll stay in touch.
Squanto

Is there a reason that you were ordering from outside the US? (I assume you're in the US based on your profile.) A warrant is required to search US mail, but anything is game if it crosses the border. Therefore ordering from US companies is preferable. I know Psylocybe Fanaticus was busted, but I think there are still other US spore sources. It's been a while since I investigated so maybe things have changed.

I know of many people that have had contraband nabbed by customs, never to have another visit from law enforcement. (I've never heard of a follow up visit.) However, if you're afraid to try again for fear BIG BROTHER is watching, I can't say I blame you.

STOP THE DRUG WAR!

Jesse

Title: Re: Follow-up on previoius low testosterone topic
Post by CHTom on Jul 29^th, 2006, 1:39am

My testosterone levels are normal and I still have chronic CH.

Title: Re: Follow-up on previoius low testosterone topic
Post by Squanto on Jul 29^th, 2006, 9:24am

1) about the p. cubensis grow kit.
I bought (and re-ordered) from Amazing Nature (a company in the Netherlands) because the grow-kit seemed to be the easiest way to jump into fungi growing. The grow-kit is all inclusive. All I had to do with it was: open the package, dampen the brick with sterile water, put it in a protected place and watch the little buggers grow. It was a little more complicated than that - but not much.
When I used up my first "crop," (by the way, I had what I consider an encouraging response, headache-wise, to the active ingredient of the 'shrooms) I looked into all the other options (getting spores, making or getting growth media etc.) When everything was added up, it seemed to me that it would cost about the same in the time and money to get another kit. I knew that there was a chance that the package might not make it through custioms. But since the first kit made it through without any problem - I figured the odds were in my favor. I lost the bet. So be it. I'm really not worried about a "knock on my door" as result of the confiscation. Maybe I should be - but I'm not.

2) about the testosterone:
From my reading of the complete article (not just the abstract) it's clear that the authors are NOT suggesting that every CH sufferer has lower than normal testosterone. Or would respond to testosterone replacement.
In this preliminary study, they selected subjects who were refactory (had failed to respond satisfactorily) to other "traditional" treatements (Verapamil, triptans, Lithium, DHE, etc.) and also had testosterone levels that were "low normal" or "lower than normal." They measured other products of the hypothalmus (i.e. FSH, LH, etc.) The other hormones tested apparently were normal.

Just like some CH sufferers can drink alcohol and some can smoke while these are strong triggers in others - I suspect that some folks with CH will be found to have "normal" testosterone. And supplementation/replacement won't make any difference.

This research may lead to a better understanding of the pathophysiology of some, if not all, of our headaches. The article suggests that the low testosterone finding, response to replacement and so on, may be related to melatonin production/metabolism. It appears that is one of the threads they are following.

I guess that none of the 9 subjects of the study are visitors to this board. I was kinda hoping that maybe one of them would chime in here.

Well, let's press on. Some solutions are out there somewhere.
Squanto

Title: Re: Follow-up on previoius low testosterone topic
Post by unsolved1 on Jul 30^th, 2006, 2:28pm

My testosterone levels were in the low-normal range. After my neuro did a little investigating, he decided to give me a 100 mg IM dose of testosterone. I just had it a few days ago. Can't tell if it has helped or not. I've had a whole host of other drugs which I know helps temporarly. (Including DHE, Histamine, and Solu Medol). Not sure if I'll ever know if it helped, unless my clusters never return ;) (wishful thinking)

UNsolved

Title: Re: Follow-up on previoius low testosterone topic
Post by Squanto on Jul 30^th, 2006, 7:29pm

More info from Dr Stillman's article:

The article spells out the dosage regimen for the 9 CH sufferers in the study.
One (male) was treated with 250 mg IM testosterone every 10 days.
Three (males) were treated with 100 mg IM testosterone. One for only one dose, one was dosed every 10 days, two were dosed every 14 days
One (male) was treated with 5 mg testosterone patches.
The article does not include how many doses the subjects received (except for the guy who got only one shot.)
The two females were treated with a estrogen/testosterone combination.

It is interesting to note that one patient refused any testosterone treatment (article didn't say why), one couldn't tolerate the patch because of nausea/vomiting, and another was headache free after one 100 mg dose but didn't come back for further treatment.

There was also one male whose testosterone level was 409 (that's well above normal) who was the one who's headache went away after one dose and who didn't come back for anymore treatment. It's not said why this guy was even in the group. Maybe as a "control?"

Several of the subjects were on significant "cocktails" of medications. If they were taken off their other CH treatments before the testosterone was given isn't clear.

Obviously, a larger group and more "standardized" treatment regimen would help elucidate this CH treatment.

Because of this article, I've started taking melatonin again. I took melatonin for several weeks last year without any noticable benefit. The article suggests that a testosterone-melatonin combination might be the way to go. If my doctor and I decide to try the testosterone, I'll have a leg up.

Squanto.