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Title: Mushrooms Post by spidey426 on Jun 12th, 2006, 9:16pm Hey guys.. I'm new around here, new to the CH scene in general.. I've stumbled upon some info regarding mushrooms being a method to get you out of a cycle.. is this true? has anyone ever experimented with this? What kind of results has anyone had? I'm tempted to give it a shot myself.. i'm tempted to give anything a shot at this point.. anyways.. just looking for some feedback on the subject, and I will also post my results with it after wednesday when I'll be giving it a shot myself.. thanks: ) pain free wishes |
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Title: Re: Mushrooms Post by Redd715 on Jun 12th, 2006, 9:21pm www.clusterbusters.com Here is where you can get a lot of info on this method. edit to add: have you by chance gotten a proper Dx yet? |
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Title: Re: Mushrooms Post by eyes_afire on Jun 12th, 2006, 9:46pm Here's the actual link: http://www.clusterbusters.com/ The website was started by several people from this message board who have success with it. --- Steve |
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Title: Re: Mushrooms Post by spidey426 on Jun 13th, 2006, 2:12am Yeah, that's actually where I saw the info about the mushrooms.. I really couldn't find any info about their findings though.. so I was just curious what results some of you have had if you'd tried it. I'm still going to try it on Wednesday, but I am scared to death.. if mushrooms are something that can heighten your senses, what if I got a CH at some point after taking the mushrooms? Would it be, the worst pain known to man--and then some? That's a scary thought: ) |
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Title: Re: Mushrooms Post by Flash on Jun 13th, 2006, 6:34am IMHO mushrooms (and associated substances like RC seeds, LSD etc) are the only truely effective means of terminating a CH episode or breaking a chronic cycle. Please be aware that they are not effective against 'troll-varient CH' though... Follow the instructions very carefully. Personally I find that mushrooms can also abort an alcohol induced attack, and the chances of experiencing a CH attack whilst on shrooms is very slim. Most of those that have treated their CH with shrooms (somewhere in the region of 200 people) no longer visit this message board - they don't need to. |
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Title: Re: Mushrooms Post by nani on Jun 13th, 2006, 9:53am There are still some of us who still visit the board. ;) Clusterbusters has worked better for me than any other med or treatment that I've tried. Like Flash said, follow the instructions. You probably won't have an attack during the treatment, but prepare yourself for some post dose hits. Have oxygen (or your non-med abortive of choice) handy. Good luck and keep us posted. pain free wishes, nani (a former chronic who broke a 5 year cycle) |
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Title: Re: Mushrooms Post by Bob P on Jun 13th, 2006, 12:52pm Hey Flash! How the heck ya doin'? Did I ever tell you that at my high school, Granada Hills High School, we were called the "Highlanders" or "Scots" for short. Our colors were Kelley green and white. The yearbook was called the Tartan. We're more alike than even you realize. |
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Title: Re: Mushrooms Post by Katherinecm on Jun 13th, 2006, 3:56pm on 06/13/06 at 06:34:18, Flash wrote:
This may be a stupid question, but what is a "troll-varient" CH? Katy |
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Title: Re: Mushrooms Post by tommyD on Jun 13th, 2006, 4:05pm Quote:
That would be the variety of CH that trolls don't really have. -tommyD |
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Title: Re: Mushrooms Post by tommyD on Jun 13th, 2006, 4:18pm Quote:
Other than troll variants, real episodics see a success rate of about 75 to 80 percent, and about 60 to 70 percent of real chronics see significant relief. Understand this is a very unscientific count based on reports collected on this and other Internet message boards. Flash thinks the success rate is higher, Bob P suspects it might be lower. Pleae don't get them started :-) The tough part of this treatment is getting clean of some favorite CH drugs - triptans like Imitrex, Prednisone and some others. But it works like a charm (for me, anyway). -tommyD |
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Title: Re: Mushrooms Post by Chillrmn1 on Jun 13th, 2006, 4:59pm ClusterBuster Therapy....... on 06/13/06 at 16:18:24, tommyD wrote:
Me too. Bob |
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Title: Re: Mushrooms Post by youngmichael on Jun 13th, 2006, 6:29pm My last cycle started in October, I think, of last year. I was well into the cycle when I took my first dose. I definitely noticed a change in the headaches, but they didn't seem to be getting better. I tried another dose 2 weeks later. The headaches went away about a month after my second dose...I'm not sure if the mushrooms are what caused the disappearance of the headaches, but one thing is for sure. It was the shortest and least severe cycle in the last 6 years. I will let you know how this year goes. I just dosed over the weekend and I intend to do so before October when I expect the next cycle to come. I am hoping that this will be my first year in 6 without a cycle. |
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Title: Re: Mushrooms Post by Beastfodder on Jun 14th, 2006, 12:05pm Nothing but good to say about clusterbusters, both the people and practice. My past two cycles were aborted, for the first time, last year's all but stopped as soon as it arrived. All the info you need is there on the website. Like you the prospect of getting hit whilst dosing was truly terrifying, now it's the first thing I do when getting hit along with the O2. Just noticed that it's Wednesday - best of luck for later in the day, finger's crossed for you. |
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Title: Re: Mushrooms Post by spidey426 on Jun 14th, 2006, 1:05pm Thanks: ) Gonna be giving it a shot in a few hours.. and yeah, I'm still terrified of getting a hit while on them.. mainly because I have no abortive or anything. I'm a non-insured clusterhead.. hence that is why i'm trying all the non-prescription methods I can find.. I'll be posting my mushroom results in the next few days.. pfw to all |
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Title: Re: Mushrooms Post by brewcrew on Jun 14th, 2006, 3:27pm on 06/13/06 at 02:12:29, spidey426 wrote:
I long for the day that this treatment will be cleared by the FDA and I can give it a try. I can tell you this - I took this "treatment" about a half dozen times in my early 20's, for recreational purposes. CH didn't become a part of my life until I was 31. Coincidence? Maybe. |
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Title: Re: Mushrooms Post by nani on Jun 14th, 2006, 3:49pm Good luck, Spidey. Just so you know, psilocybin acts as both an abortive and a prevent. A small piece under my tongue will abort a hit in minutes. So, free your mind of any fear, and go into this with the right attitude. I warned you about the post dose hits because it's not unusual to get hit kinda hard the following day. It means the psilocybin is "doing" something. (Others have a much better way to explain that, LOL) You may want to try to have a Red Bull around, just in case. You never know, it may work again. Bill, you may want to ask Pinkfloyd about tests. I think that it's unusal for employers to test for psychedelics, and even if they do, it's out of your system very quickly. |
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Title: Re: Mushrooms Post by lashultz on Jun 14th, 2006, 4:17pm I need more info on this. I asked my nuero about mushrooms and he said it was the same as steroids, only help temp. This must still be a big help. I am trying to get a better job (hopefully it is better) and need to know if this is tested for. lashultz |
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Title: Re: Mushrooms Post by Katherinecm on Jun 14th, 2006, 4:45pm on 06/14/06 at 16:17:15, lashultz wrote:
Go to http://www.clusterbusters.com/ and read everything. That will answer many of your questions. |
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Title: Re: Mushrooms Post by Beastfodder on Jun 14th, 2006, 5:01pm I'm sure I'll be corrected if wrong - but the odds of being screened for psychedellics are v.small - it's not standard practice. Pot and coke are the most likely tests and you've only got a few days where there's any chance of returning a positive test... Wonder it any any triptans would return a false positive on drug tests due to the structural similarities of the molecules/active ingredients? |
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Title: Re: Mushrooms Post by brewcrew on Jun 14th, 2006, 5:12pm "v. small" isn't good enough. Still too much of a risk, especially when you have a wife and son who are dependant on your income. Until "v. small" becomes "nonexistent," I'll pass. |
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Title: Re: Mushrooms Post by Pinkfloyd on Jun 14th, 2006, 6:43pm on 06/13/06 at 02:12:29, spidey426 wrote:
The Effects of Psilocybin and LSD on Cluster Headache: A Series of 53 Cases (Presentation at the US National Headache Foundation's 3rd Annual Headache Research Summit, Febr. 2006) R. Andrew Sewell, MD; John H. Halpern, MD Objective: To describe the use of psilocybin and lysergic acid diethylamide (LSD) for treatment of cluster headache. Design: Patients were questioned about their use of psilocybin and LSD to treat their cluster headaches. Of 383 patients identified, 53 consented to interviews and provided medical records, thus qualifying for our primary analysis. An additional 147 respondents provided quantifiable information on use of psilocybin to terminate cluster periods, but failed to provide medical records or declined to be contacted; these individuals were included in a secondary analysis only. Patient Selection: We included all respondents who 1) reported cluster headaches, 2) had attempted to treat their headaches with either psilocybin or LSD, 3) agreed to be contacted for evaluation by telephone or e-mail, and 4) allowed us to obtain copies of their medical records. Main Outcome Measures: For abortive treatment, a subjective rating of "effective" - causing termination of a cluster attack in less than 20 minutes - or "ineffective". For prophylactic treatment, a subjective report of "effective" – causing total remission of the cluster period, "partially effective" – causing diminishment of cluster attack frequency or intensity, or "ineffective" – no change noted. For remission extension, subjective report of "effective" – a delayed or missed cluster period, or "ineffective" – a subsequent cluster period at the expected time. Results: Of the 53 participants in the primary analysis, 52 had used psilocybin and nine had used LSD to treat their cluster headaches. Twenty-two (85%) of 26 psilocybin users reported that psilocybin had aborted attacks; 25 (52%) of 48 psilocybin users and seven (88%) of 8 LSD users reported termination of at least one cluster period; and 18 (95%) of 19 psilocybin users and four (80%) of five LSD users reported extension of their remission period. Twenty-two (42%) psilocybin users and two (22%) LSD users experienced therapeutic effects with sub-hallucinogenic doses. In the secondary analysis, 76 (52%) of the 147 respondents reported that psilocybin terminated at least one cluster period. Conclusions: Our observations suggest that psilocybin and LSD may be effective in treating cluster attacks, possibly by a mechanism that is unrelated to their hallucinogenic properties. This report should not be misinterpreted as an endorsement of the use of illegal substances for self-treatment of cluster headache. Quelle: Syllabus, National Headache Foundation's 3rd Annual Headache Research Summit |
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Title: Re: Mushrooms Post by Pinkfloyd on Jun 14th, 2006, 6:57pm on 06/14/06 at 16:17:15, lashultz wrote:
Well, it's about as far from steroids as you can get. Ask him to check out www.clusterbusters.com and read the Scientific Information page. Print out the report on the 53 subject case study of Dr. Sewell's that I posted above, and... Then give him this link: http://www.clusterbusters.com/convention.htm Tell him I'll waive his registration fee ;-) Bobw |
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Title: Re: Mushrooms Post by mynm156 on Jun 14th, 2006, 7:07pm on 06/13/06 at 06:34:18, Flash wrote:
Hey Flash nice of you to stop by brother! Come around more often. |
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Title: Re: Mushrooms Post by Flash on Jun 15th, 2006, 5:12am On drug tests... I really wouldn't let this stop you. The chances of getting caught can easily be reduced down to zero. Here (again) is all the information that you need to know: There are several different methods of testing for drugs: urine blood hair Of these urine is the most accurate and the least expensive. Drugs dissappear from the blood stream much quicker than the metabolites are cleared from the urine. Hair tests are only really useful when testing for cannabis, the hair test is also considered to be borderline a breach of human rights. The ONLY test that is applicable to (could be used to detect) hallucinogenics is the urine test. The urine test is by far the most common test used by employers. To the best of my knowledge blood and/or hair tests have only ever been employed by the military and criminal justice organisations. So if you are tested at work then it will certainly be a urine test. There are 2 types of test that can be performed on urine: EMIT - cheap and may produce false positives in up to 60% of samples GCMS - 20x as expensive as EMIT but extremely accurate It is standard practice to employ the cheaper EMIT test to narrow down the samples before using the GCMS test on any that came up positive on EMIT. The EMIT test is so unreliable that failing the EMIT test could not be used as grounds for dismissal. Hence the more expensive GCMS test. Now for the good news... 1) The EMIT test is NOT capable of detecing hallucinogenics. In order to be caught you'd first have to fail the EMIT test. Provided that you do not take any other medications, either OTC or prescription, and do not eat any poppy seed buns beforehand, and have not been drinking alcohol, then you are VERY likely to PASS the EMIT test, and will therefore not be subjected to a GCMS test. 2) Hallucinogenic drugs are not considered to be commonly used or abused, so these is little point in testing for them. Hallucinogenic drugs do not form part of the standard GCMS drugs test. Your employer would have to SPECIFICALLY request the lab to test for these. The test for hallucinogenics is NOT even offered as an extra! REPEAT - THE EMPLOYER MUST SPECIFICALLY REQUEST THIS TEST. 3) Hallucinogenic drugs are generally metabolised within 3 days. BUT the level of metabolites drops below the detectable threshold within 36 hours of ingestion. Note this is the detecable threshold - the truth is that even around threshold levels it would be virtually impossible to get a conclusive result. So if someone took shrooms on Friday evening then they would be COMPETELY UNDETECTABLE to a GCMS test by Monday morning. 4) Better still the doses used to treat CH are generally smaller than the doses used recreationally - this makes them even harder to detect. LSD is particular is used in such tiny doses that it is virtually impossible to detect even when it's levels are at their highest, typically the CH busting dose is between 12 and 60 mcgs - that's MICROGRAMS or if you prefer 12 millionths of a gram, which equates to 0.0000000006g of detecable metabolites per piss (when levels are at their HIGHEST)... A granule of sugar weights approx 0.01g!!! Not much substance there then. This test is really designed to detect a 0.5g of coke or speed, or 0.125g of cannabis!!! Even if they did somehow succeed in detecting the 0.0000000006g of LSD you'd easily get off by claiming contamination of the equipment. 5) In the worst case scenario, it is still possible to beat the test with a little prior planning. The solution is simply to dilute the sample. This is achieved by drinking excess water prior to the test. Here's the full guide to beating the test: a) The first piss of the morning will contain the highest levels of metabolites, so make sure you pee before you reach work. b) Diluted samples can be detected in 3 ways: i) Colour, they look washed out. ii) Acidity, they are not acidic enough. iii) They do not contain enough creatine. So in order to dilute the sample, you would require to drink lots of something acidic which contained creatine and was a yellow colour. This can be achieved by mixing water, vitamin B complex tablets, lemon juice, and creatine monohydrate (available as a dietry suppliment from body bulding type outlets). Mix up 4 litres of this relatively harmless substance and drink 500ml every hour. You'll probably need to fo to the bathroom a lot, but if they call a random drugs test they you WILL pass the emit part of the test... c) ...provided you avoid anything that might cause a false positive. Especially alcohol, poppy seed buns, ibuprofen, and amoxycillin (an antibiotic that EMIT detects as cocaine). In fact it is recommended to avoid all OTC and prescription meds. Please note that this is all about spoofing and passing the EMIT test, a diluted sample would be picked up on the GCMS, but it simply won't get that far! *** So to summarise. Someone ingesting hallucinogenics on a Friday night WILL PASS even the most stringent drugs test by Monday morning. There risk is ZERO. Hallucinogenics are typically only/best taken once a week in order to treat CH anyway. On top of this it is EXTREMELY UNLIKELY that the hallucinogenics would even form part of the test. |
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Title: Re: Mushrooms Post by Flash on Jun 15th, 2006, 5:13am Worst case scenario, someone in a job that involved working 7 days a week could easily employ the spoofing technique. Spoofing is 100% effective for hallucinogenics, even if the employer specifically requested that the lab test for them. Now lets look at what it would take to get caught... In theroy, someone ingesting a high dose of mushrooms on a Monday morning, whilst at work, and then being tested that same day, and not employing the spoofing technique. You would also have to fail the EMIT test, so therefore it would be best to eat some poppy seeds, take some alcohol, and load up on medications. In addition to this your employer would have to specifically request that the lab test for hallucinogenic drugs, and would have to be willing to pay extra for this. And finally all those poppy seed rolls, and medications would throw up such massive spikes (in the wrong places), that the little blip of psilocybin would likely go unnoticed, or be near enough invisible to the naked eye. Phew - not easy is it??? *** I strongly suggest that for peace of mind, anyone considering trying this first spends an hour on google verifying all this information. |
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Title: Re: Mushrooms Post by Chillrmn1 on Jun 15th, 2006, 5:58am on 06/14/06 at 15:27:31, brewcrew wrote:
Yes, my sentiments also. I, and am sure others, only want a treatment that is effective in treating our CH without harmful side effects, let alone a cure. I'll speak for myself here....the prescription pharmaceuticals I've taken were either ineffective or risked harmful side effects such as trex with the associated risks to the heart and rebounds I would experience for example. After many years of living with the misery of this damn CH disease I've finally found something that allows me to live my life without the intense pain, etc., caused by CH. It's a decision one must make on their own and regardless which decision the individual makes it should be respected. I feel very fortunate to have found the ClusterBuster treatment for it has allowed me to live a more normal and less painful life without harmful side effects. And I truly hope this treatment or some other will be approved so all CH sufferers can find relief without having to go thru the anxieties regarding legalities of the medication. Bob |
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Title: Re: Mushrooms Post by Poli on Jun 15th, 2006, 2:36pm Bravo Flash. Good research. I'm another proud and successful clusterbuster. Saludos Poli |
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Title: Re: Mushrooms Post by brewcrew on Jun 15th, 2006, 3:28pm Yes, excellent research, Flash. I can't thank you enough. If, one day, I can confirm your findings re: how long it stays in your system, I can plan some vacation time around a treatment. Much of your writing still has that tiny level of uncertainty about risk levels. I don't hold you responsible for that - it's just the way it is. But as long as there is the slightest risk (and keep in mind that I work for a company regulated by both the DOT and the FAA, so we're ALL subject to random testing), I have to take a pass. Again, thank you for your diligent research. This has helped a lot. |
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Title: Re: Mushrooms Post by Charlotte on Jun 15th, 2006, 3:43pm I run in and out of the court house during the day on my job, so I am waiting until I retire to try anything that is currently illigal in the state of CA. Per Nani's helpful advice, I'm using kudzu and it is helping, although I am still chronic and still struggling. However, when I was a young adult, around 1968-70, I tried mescaline & lsd a few times and they did not produce any entertaining effects. They didn't effect me in any way I could tell. Do you think that was because ch does something to our personal chemistry? Charlotte |
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Title: Re: Mushrooms Post by Kingjames1 on Jun 15th, 2006, 5:47pm Charlotte- If they didn't affect you, you were taking some bogus stuff, or you are one wild chick! Do you often giggle, clench your teeth, and say "oh, wowwww" alot? At least, that's what I heard the experience was like back in the day ;;D |
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Title: Re: Mushrooms Post by vig on Jun 15th, 2006, 8:17pm a tip of the hat to Flash thank you! I owe ya, BIG time |
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Title: Re: Mushrooms Post by Flash on Jun 16th, 2006, 7:11am On drug testing for shrooms: http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_testing.shtml On LSD testing: http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_testing.shtml On drug testing in general: http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/testing/testing.shtml *** Those of you worried about legalities might instead try some of these: http://www.allsalvia.co.uk/cluster_headaches.htm http://remedyfind.com/rem.asp?ID=21263 http://psychoactiveherbs.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=128 http://www.clusterbusters.com/faqlsa.htm RC seeds are legal in many places. The active ingredient is LSA which again is active in very small quantities and therefore difficult to test for. http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsa/lsa_dose.shtml http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsa/lsa_testing.shtml Hope this also helps. EDIT: should also mention that regular exercise is useful in ridding the body of metabolites as it increases the bodies metabolism. So as part of a "get the drugs out of my system ASAP" (as in, over the course of the weekend, or a vacation) type strategy: Do not eat anything in advance, so that dose lands on an empty stomach. Take dose as early as possible on last day of work. Say 1800 Friday for example. Psychoactive effects should persist for approx 4 hours. Drink some water. Eat a regular meal. Go to bed at regular time. Get up in the morning and immediately visit the bathroom and pee. Drink some water. Eat some breakfast cereal, and drink some strong coffee. Wait approx 1 hour then go for 2-3 mile brisk walk. Eat meals at regular intervals with a cup of strong coffee. Drink slightly more water than usual throughout the day. 1700 go for another 2-3 mile brisk walk. Repeat on the Sunday. If possible take another day off and repeat the same process. FIRST DAY BACK AT WORK - GO FOR THE PISS (very important), BUT... DO NOT EAT BREAKFAST, DO NOT DRINK COFFEE, and DO NOT TAKE EXERCISE. Drink slightly more water than usual OR go for the full spoofing thing with lots of water, lemon juice, vitamin B complex, and creatine. Repeat max 1 more day, by then you really should be back to normal. The science behind this is that you speed up you metabolism to rid as much drug from your system as possible, then slow it down again just prior to the test in order to reduce the quantity of metabolites that it is shedding. The combination of breakfast, caffiene, water, and exercise can increase you metabolism by up to 20 fold. So 2 days of this should shed the equivalent of a weeks worth of metabolites, give or take. And remember that the vast majority are going to leave you body within the first 24 hours anyway... Sweating during the exercise will also offload a few extra metabolites before they hit the urinary tract. |
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Title: Re: Mushrooms Post by brewcrew on Jun 16th, 2006, 8:58am on 06/16/06 at 07:11:50, Flash wrote:
Flash - This is never optional. ;;D Thanks again! Bill |
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Title: Re: Mushrooms Post by lashultz on Jun 16th, 2006, 10:23pm I looked at the clusterbusters web site and noticed that you were giving away a booklet by Lawrence Robbins. This is the doctor that told me that mushrooms were the same as steriods, only providing temp. relief. Now I am really confussed. I will see Mr. Robbins at the end of July and ask again. Maybe he has changed his mind on this subject. Are you still going to waive his registration fee? lashultz |
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Title: Re: Mushrooms Post by Pinkfloyd on Jun 17th, 2006, 1:35am on 06/16/06 at 22:23:55, lashultz wrote:
Well...if he knew what he was talking about, I'd be selling them instead of giving them away.[smiley=laugh.gif] Just kidding....Larry, .... REALLY. ;;D I've known Dr. Robbins for years and greatly respect his knowledge of clusters and headaches in general. His book(s) are full of great information. If you come to the Clusterbusters conference, you might see him in mid-july instead of waiting for the end of the month. He's trying to clear his schedule for me. If he doesn't make it, at least his booklet will. He has done a great amount of work, advancing the treatments of cluster headache. As to his knowledge of the psilocybin treatment, I can't speak for him or how he chooses to explain what he understands it to be, to his patients. Many doctors are cautious about making comments that may be taken as promoting the use of schedule 1 drugs, regardless of thier beliefs about their usefulness. I expect that may change drastically for many doctors come mid-july when the article comes out in Neurology and following the conference. His registration fee as waived long ago. Bobw |
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Title: Re: Mushrooms Post by lashultz on Jun 17th, 2006, 10:09am I agree with everything that you said about Dr. Robbins. You are probably right that he has to be careful about avocading illegal subtances. I also will try and make it to your conference. Thanks for the information. lashultz |
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Title: Re: Mushrooms Post by Chuffy on Jun 19th, 2006, 7:23am Hi Spidey, Check out my post http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=meds;action=display;num=1143032172 See if that helps at all. As you can see it works for me ;) Cheers Rob |
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