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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies >> Anyone tried seeds with Adverse reaction?
        
(Message started by: Garys_Girl on Apr 23^rd, 2006, 5:11pm)

Title: Anyone tried seeds with Adverse reaction?
Post by Garys_Girl on Apr 23^rd, 2006, 5:11pm

At the cluster buster's site it's pretty clear that if alternatives are going to be considered, the highest rate of success is with psilocybin then seeds.

But due to legal issues, amount of time, etc. I'm assuming some people decide to start with seeds.

I know that while psilocybin/seeds has/have a pretty high success rate in busting (and preventing) cycles, has anyone ever had an adverse reaction, especially with seeds? Not where the seeds didn't have any effect, but where they made the clusters worse?

Thanks for your input,

Laurie

Title: Re: Anyone tried seeds with Adverse reaction?
Post by MJ on Apr 24^th, 2006, 2:30am

Laurie

I was suffering with 8-12 k10 1.5-2 hour CH hits a day, believe me when I say nothing could have made them worse.

I went the RC seed routine and had no real adverse effects. Nothing that would stop me from functioning properly aside from the cluster headaches. I used the RC seeds as both a preventive and an abortive.

If you have read and try to follow the CB plan and cautions there should'nt be any issues.

Following are personal opinions
I do think there is a point with the seeds that an increased dosage does no good at all.
But I also think that you must find the dose that works for you. There is a point of not enough and too much LSA regarding CH in other words.

The only noticeable adverse effect for me was being sleepy at a continuous low dosage. I would nod off at a moments notice if I let myself. But I was not fully following the cluster buster advice at that time.

RC seeds are the only treatment that has ever been truly effective for me. Sadly it took 30 years of suffering to find them and another month or so of experimenting to get it right.

Start with the reccomended dose and If you find that even a little benefit is found do not be afraid to experiment "a little". Thats my personal opinion.

The Cluster buster folks seem more than willing to help with questions.

One other thing, if he is hesitant at all I would reccomend taking an hour before bed and if they work he will sleep like a baby with a low dose of seeds (to me less than 12 RC seeds).
The site suggests starting with 4.

Title: Re: Anyone tried seeds with Adverse reaction?
Post by floridian on Apr 24^th, 2006, 9:58am

Seeds (at a higher dose) can cause vasoconstriction, nausea, and dizzyness/perceptional distortion. This is usually seen when teenage kids consume a massive dose for recreational purposes. At low doses (Sputnik), it is much less likely, but could possibly be a rare problem, especially if one had heart or blood pressure issues. But I think a very low dose is less likely to have adverse effects than a normal dose of imitrex, and has the potential to shut the pain off for weeks or months, not just shut a headache down for a few hours. Good that you are asking; read, read, read and make an informed decision.

Title: Re: Anyone tried seeds with Adverse reaction?
Post by ArCane on Apr 24^th, 2006, 10:45am

The CB treatment is the only thing I have found that will actually break my cycle and give me 100% relief. I would suggest finding your right dose and sticking with it. I have found that I need to get to the "light" tripping level in order to get maximum releif. This is the only reaction that I get from em, but it is not unpleasant or anything. I have noticed that if I am in cycle and take a dose, I will get hit about 8-24 hours after that and then will go PF until my next dose. I chalk it up to the beast having his final death roll. These post dose hits are mild and are easily taken care of with oxygen. Hope this helps. Good luck!

Title: Re: Anyone tried seeds with Adverse reaction?
Post by JJA on Apr 24^th, 2006, 11:07am

It is not uncommon to have a few days of increased headache activity after dosing, only to have the headaches get better afterward.

I do recall in one of the many clusterbuster arguments here, that someone thought clusterbusters made them go chronic. I don't remember who it was...(anyone vouch for this?) I think it was probably a coincidence, but.... Most people find that things get much better.

In my case, I have suffered about 20 headaches in the past 3 years. A quick estimate predicts that I would have suffered about 1000+ headaches in this time without clusterbusters. I went through the worst, longest and most frequent cycles prior to trying 'busters. Since then, I seem to be skipping expected cycles without needing to dose, but that's probably a coincidence too.

Edit: BTW both my experience and the "turning chronic anecdote" are with psilocybin, not seeds.

Jesse

Title: Re: Anyone tried seeds with Adverse reaction?
Post by Bob P on Apr 24^th, 2006, 11:20am

Quote:

I do recall in one of the many clusterbuster arguments here, that someone thought clusterbusters made them go chronic. I don't remember who it was...(

I think it was Jayne.

Quote:

8-12 k10 1.5-2 hour CH hits a day

12 each 2 hr. K10's a day is rough!

Title: Re: Anyone tried seeds with Adverse reaction?
Post by Garys_Girl on Apr 25^th, 2006, 12:19pm

Thank you SO MUCH for all the input!

Laurie

Title: Re: Anyone tried seeds with Adverse reaction?
Post by Flash on Apr 25^th, 2006, 1:01pm

on 04/24/06 at 11:20:06, Bob P wrote:

I think it was Jayne.

12 each 2 hr. K10's a day is rough!

I have some knowledge of this. If you check the archives then it becomes apparent that whatever substance Jayne was sold (by a street dealer) then it certainly was not psilocybe mushrooms or LSD. Neither the appearence nor effects of the substance was in any way consistent with indole ring alkaloids.

From what I can recall she may well have ingested a low dose of fly agaric mushroom.

***

I have also posted some adverse effects in the past during the decade that I experimented treating CH with hallucinogenics. I did experience a temp worsening of the condition on two occasions.

During those episodes I ingested a much lower than normal dose. The brought a brief period of partial relief lasting 24-48 hours. Then the headaches became more intense, longer lasting, and more frequent. At their worst the were lasting 3 hours each at K10 with 6 occuring back to back. This exceptionally rough period endured for 4 full days. On day 5 my head was very tender, and the flesh painful to touch, plus I was still experiencing heavy shadows all day long. On day 6 things improved and the shadows receded. By day 7 I was completely PF and in a remission that held for a period of months. The episode terminated after 1 week which is at least 3 weeks ahead of schedule.

Both instances of this were pretty much identical. The second time was in April 2003 and that remission has held to this day without any maintenance dosing. Pior to starting the treatment my cycle was 1 month headaches then 6 months PF.

For anyone interested the dose ingested to achieve this unpleasantness was what is considered a threshold dose, meaning less than level 1. The actual material ingested was 6 Liberty Cap mushrooms roughly equivalent to 0.5g.d.c.

***

If you have any problem with this (a virtual certainty), then trawl through the archives for the old posts on both Jayne's experience and both of mine.

Title: Re: Anyone tried seeds with Adverse reaction?
Post by Bob P on Apr 25^th, 2006, 1:11pm

Hi Flash. How's it hangin'?

Title: Re: Anyone tried seeds with Adverse reaction?
Post by MJ on Apr 26^th, 2006, 12:37am

Good to see you post again Flash.

Still appreciate your help in figuring out my RC treatments.

MJ