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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies >> Sleep Meds
        
(Message started by: I Cant Dance on Apr 22^nd, 2006, 1:41am)

Title: Sleep Meds
Post by I Cant Dance on Apr 22^nd, 2006, 1:41am

Maybe I haven't found the thread yet, but I was wondering about sleep meds such as ambien. Has anybody used these, and do they help with the nightime hell?

Title: Re: Sleep Meds
Post by RichardN on Apr 22^nd, 2006, 2:45am

Have you tried Melatonin (OTC) yet? Seems to help many with the night hits. 6-9mg 30-45 min before bedtime can reduce the frequency/intensity of the night attacks. Can make you groggy . . . . don't let that scare you . . . tis normal.

Do you have 02 to abort?

Be Safe, PFDANs

Richard

Title: Re: Sleep Meds
Post by Jasmyn on Apr 22^nd, 2006, 3:24am

I can't answer on ambien, as I've never used it. Richard is right about the Melatonin. My problem is that I'm an insomniac, has always been. Melatonin does not make you sleepy but it does seem to give a good deep sleep, when you are able to fall asleep.

I use normison to actually fall asleep, it works well, does not give you a hangover in the mornings but it is addictive.

Since I've started using the Melatonin and Normison together, I have not had one night of waking up with a hit. This is good for me although I do not want to advocate the use of addictive meds.

But... I'm not giving my Normison up ;)

Title: Re: Sleep Meds
Post by thomas on Apr 22^nd, 2006, 10:27am

My wife used ambien for a while for apnea, but it helped her some with her ch, melatonin did not work for her. Trazadone has really helped her sleep through the night. Melatonin worked for me for the last 3 years, but now has quit working, and I am literally crushed by that fact.

Title: Re: Sleep Meds
Post by I Cant Dance on Apr 22^nd, 2006, 11:12am

I am using melatonin, currently 12mg just before I attempt to go to sleep. Have seen no change after 2-3 weeks of use.

I was just curious about the sleep med as no one seems to mention anything but the melatonin.

As for the o2 question...does not help. I was using an "off the shelf" rebreather, waaiting for my clustermasx to get here to see if it helps.

Title: Re: Sleep Meds
Post by E-Double on Apr 22^nd, 2006, 1:02pm

Dr.'s @ NECH are recommending Roseram for sleep issues due to clusters.

It works a bit different neurochemically than ambien and is showing some benefit.

I think clinical trials will be occuring soon.

Title: Re: Sleep Meds
Post by marlinsfan on Apr 22^nd, 2006, 8:21pm

I've used LUnesta, doesn't do crap for CH. Melatonin is great, so is valerian root extract.

Title: Re: Sleep Meds
Post by Mattrf on Apr 27^th, 2006, 5:44pm

Ambien seem to only work for a couple hours then wares off.
My wife go seroquel, I made the mistake of taking a 100 Ml one at about 9:00 at night and had a hell of a time getting up in the morning at 5:30 AM and felt like I needed a nap until like 10:00. If you want one very serious sleeping pill that’s the one. They normally start you off at much smaller pills then this, if I take a half of one I am not near as bad in the morning. I need to add as well my CH hits me during the day not night so don’t know if you would be able to sleep through a hit but I have tried to wake my wife on these things and it is next to imposable.

Title: Re: Sleep Meds
Post by Kris_in_SJ on Apr 27^th, 2006, 7:56pm

Last cycle, I added 25mg of Benedryl to my 9mg Melatonin bedtime cocktail. Really seemed to help me last longer through the night.

During past cycles I've tried Halcion, Xanax, Valium and Dalmane to help sleep - no good!

Sorry I can't be of much help. My feeling is that giving it a try ain't gonna hurt you any!

Hugs,

Kris

Title: Re: Sleep Meds
Post by Garys_Girl on Apr 28^th, 2006, 12:11pm

Gary has suffered insomnia for years.

Ambien worked once or twice, but it leaves him in a hell of a horrible mood the next day. Hasn't taken it since this cycle started, so don't know how it affects CH.

Lunesta doesn't do anything for him.

Restoril helped - but restoril isn't for long-term use (it's a valium like thing). Haven't used it for months, so don't know how it works with CH. But it sure helped with the insonmia without the terrible mood the next day of ambien or kolonopin.

Kolonopin (clonzepam) is an anti-anxiety medication. Before we knew hubby had CH, he used Kolonopin from time to time. Be careful, it's addictive. Interestingly, I found one I'd hidden (for emergencies). He took it two weeks ago. It appeared to block his CH attacks that afternoon. He passed out that night, and slept pretty much through the night. He hates taking the Kolonpin though, because like ambien, it leaves him in a hell of a mood the next day.

Trazodone has worked quite well. It's an old-generation anti-depressant that is used primarily for help sleeping given it's tranquilizing effect. Start with 50mg, you may work your way up to 150mg. It was very helpful for hubby. Haven't tried it since this cycle started, but many anti-depressents seem to help with the CH, so may be a good route to consider (and you get the added benefit of it being an anti-depressant).

Seroquel is used for bipolar disorder and for treating certain forms of schitzophrenia. It may have a tranquilizer-type effect, I don't know.

Good luck, and keep us posted.

Laurie

Title: Re: Sleep Meds
Post by Gator on Apr 28^th, 2006, 1:53pm

I haven't had any luck with sleep meds. Mostly because they just don't work for me. Have tried Tylenol PM, Melatonin, Melatonin/Benadryl combo, Halcion, Ambien, Temazapam, Sonata, even up to 400mg of Seroquel. When my body decides it's going into insomniac mode, I'm just awake until my body can't take any more. Usually, the bouts only last 2 or 3 days. My longest with no sleep was 5 days - crashed hard about halfway through the 6th day. Not a fun time.

Title: Re: Sleep Meds
Post by Mattrf on Apr 28^th, 2006, 2:02pm

Gator you should see what your doctor says about seroquel I know Garys_Girl said bipolar and certain forms of schitzophrenia but I tell you what the stuff could knock out a horse, when my wife takes a 200 she slurs her words so bad I can’t understand a word she says and I have to dam near carry her to bed if she waits to long, witch she does almost every time. Lol
She got these from her shrink to help her sleep and I know when I take a 200 it knocks me out, just hope the house doesn’t catch fire when I take one or I’m doomed.

Title: Re: Sleep Meds
Post by Gator on Apr 28^th, 2006, 5:08pm

Reread my post, Matt. I did try Seroquel. I started out on a low dose and for the first few days, I slept, but my body quickly adapted and overcame and I was back to staying awake, so I upped the dose. Kept up this routine through 300 mg and when I got to where 300mg wasn't making me sleep I upped it to 400mg with no effect. The doc decided not to up the dose any further.

Seroquel is an atypical anti-psychotic medication and is primarily used as Laurie mentioned, but some doctors do use it as a sleep aid in situations where regular sleeping meds do not work.

I do have to disclaim here that my body does not process meds like normal people. Most meds I take give me neither effect nor side effect, even at higher than normal doses, which is why I have yet to find a preventative that works for my CH. It's a bitch getting numb for surgery. I about punched out a dentist when I was in the Air Force. It took twice the normal amount for her to be able to pull my wisdom teeth. I would have probably caused great physical harm to the doctor who performed my carpal tunnel surgery if my arms were not strapped down. He started to cut and I told him it hurt. He said, "No, you are just feeling pressure." I told him that I knew the difference between pressure and pain and that his incision fucking hurt. He shot me again with more local and waited for it to take effect. When he continued to cut, I still felt pain, but not as bad. He said he could not give me any more anesthetic. Since he had already started, I told him to finish. I was given something to bite down on and had a nurse at my head to help hold me down if necessary. She just stood there looking at me and crying and apologizing under her breath.

Title: Re: Sleep Meds
Post by PV on Apr 28^th, 2006, 6:06pm

No luck here with sleep meds.
I tried Melatonin for a 1 week, no change - still 3 times up a night.
After 5 days I had the feeling Melatonin triggered an attack (had one 30 min after); same happened next day.

then I stopped taking it and slept through the first night in 3 weeks.

So, I don't know, but good luck!

Title: Re: Sleep Meds
Post by I Cant Dance on Apr 28^th, 2006, 6:53pm

Gator,

So far am am with you my friend. Meds do not seem to work for me. I do have some side effects though, and sometimes the meds have the opposite effect they are supposed to have. My nickname should be mr 1%, because I seem to be in the category of side effects and symptoms the effect 1% of users...lol.

Title: Re: Sleep Meds
Post by Garys_Girl on Apr 29^th, 2006, 10:11pm

I Can't Dance:

Found a really interesting article that might apply to you. I think it applies to my husband. It's called "delayed sleep phase disorder" or DSPS. I have no idea what your sleep cycle is like, and I'm sure the CH affects it, but you may want to consider going to a sleep center.

And given that it is currently believed that the "source" of CH is the suprachiasmatic nucleus in the hypothalamus, which controls our bodies' circadian rhythms, it isn't surprising that so many with CH have sleep problems apart from the CH.

Here's descriptions of DSPS (1st is very "layman," second is written by doctors): http://sleepdisorders.about.com/library/weekly/aa082001a.htm
http://www.emedicine.com/neuro/topic655.htm

Sleeping pills are ineffective on people with DSPS and alcohol simply makes you restless:

http://www.tc.cc.tx.us/~mstorey/thacker.html

Melatonin figures heavily in treating many sleep disorders, and it appears that something called 5-HTP has been found to be more effective than melatonin (I don't know if 5-htp is a supplement or what):

http://www.holisticonline.com/Remedies/Sleep/sleep_ins_melatonin-and-5HTP.htm

However, the amount of melatonin one takes is hugely important in in working effectively. A study conducted by MIT and founded by the NIH found that it is most effective when taken in VERY SMALL AMOUNTS - not 10mg, not 5mg (some melatonin supplements), and not 3mg (most melatonin supplements), the most effective amount is 0.025 (0.3)mg (I guess buy the 3mg, get a pill cutter, and cut it into 10ths?):

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2001/melatonin-1017.html

People with low levels of melatonin (probably many CH sufferers) can be helped by taking larger doses, but because melatonin is a hormone and works in conjunction with other things in our bodies to regulate lots of things, apparently long term use can result in high blood pressure, so its use in combination with any other drugs really ought to be discussed with a pharmacist or physician.

Lastly, but not least, I believe you asked about nicotine affecting the biologic clock (circadian rhythm).

The second artle link (above) notes in the "Clinical" section that "Amphetamines, caffeine, SSRI antidepressants, steroids, nicotine, theophylline, and clonidine can also affect sleep."

But here's a more specific link to an study on that (nicotine administered orally in high doses to mice resulted in no circadian rhythm:

http://www.ihop-net.org/UniPub/iHOP/pm/698524.html?pmid=8750924

Bottom-line: if sleeping pills don't work or just make you restless, try the melatonin again at MUCH lower doses - and it can take a few weeks (the study was conducted over four weeks). Either way, work with your doctor, and consider a sleep study at a sleep center.

Laurie

P.S. Sorry the post is so long