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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies >> Spine Check Up
        
(Message started by: dallasny on Feb 6^th, 2006, 6:39pm)

Title: Spine Check Up
Post by dallasny on Feb 6^th, 2006, 6:39pm

I have suffered from Clusters since I was 31. I am now 39. At first they lasted 12 weeks and were annual. Then they started lasting 18-24 weeks and only went away for 2-3 months at a time. then in january 2003 My left leg and hand went numb, (during a cycle) My MRI showed a ruptered disc crushing my spine. One week later I had emergency fusion surgery. To my surprise the numbness and clusters immediately went away. 18 Awesome months went by. Then, the numbness came back, and so did the clusters. The Fusion never took and made two more discs bulge into the spine. My second surgery was in march 2005, they removed three discs and inserted a bone and titanium plate to hold it all in place. Immediately the numbness and clusters were gone. The doctors insist there is no connection. To me I hope there is. To be rid of the Clusters, it would be worth asking the doctor for an MRI of the cervical spine. Good luck and I hope this helps. May all your clusters be few or far between!!!!!

Title: Another spinal observation
Post by Richr8 on Feb 6^th, 2006, 6:46pm

Sorry to hear of your plight, but I thought this an intersting correlation. I am episodic and have cycled every October for the last fourtenn years with the exception of last June when I received an injury to my cervical spine. During recovery from that injury, I was doubly blessed with my first Summertime cluster episode ever. Go figure.

Title: Re: Spine Check Up
Post by pfunk on Feb 6^th, 2006, 9:03pm

It's strange that I came upon this today because I've been thinking about his for a long time. I' been suffering from these Ha's for as lon as I can remember. I was hit by a car when I was 3 years old. The car struck me in the back of the neck. I had to walk and talk and did not even remember my own parents when I cam out of the coma three weeks later. Anyway, Mom says I started having the HAs when I was @7. They would stop evry year from Oct. to Jun. episode free. Until a year and a half ago when they stopped and I thought they were gon for good so I went back to college again. ANd they came back again. 3-4 time a day. But that' not realy what matters here. The doctors have run CT scans and MRIs of evry part of my body except my neck even though they know I had neck injuries in the accident and regardless of the fact that I tell them that I have huge amounts of pain in my neck even when I am not having a headache. Thank you for posting this b/c I got a docs appt. manana and I and definitely going to push for more in depth look at my neck and spine. A wish of many more PF days ahead for you.

Pfunk ;)

Title: Re: Spine Check Up
Post by chewy on Feb 6^th, 2006, 10:52pm

I think of clusters a lot like I think of alcoholism. Its just sitting there waiting to be triggered. With an alcoholic its alcohol. With CH its some sort of trauma.

Not for all but in some cases.

Title: Re: Spine Check Up
Post by Mr. Happy on Feb 6^th, 2006, 11:53pm

on 02/06/06 at 22:52:34, chewy wrote:

With CH its some sort of trauma.
Not for all but in some cases.

Well, yeah......if trauma was the issue, why'd it take two decades before it kicked in, once every three years, like clockwork (here)? Got no answers.

Danged inconvenient.
RJ

Title: Re: Spine Check Up
Post by sandie99 on Feb 7^th, 2006, 3:26am

Hmm... Can't recall any trauma. Still, clusters begun in fall 2001.

I do think that it's good that we try to figure out this thing, though. Who knows, maybe one day ch, too, can be explained.

Best wishes & PF time to all,
Sanna

Title: Re: Spine Check Up
Post by marlinsfan on Feb 7^th, 2006, 10:24am

If disk herniations and impingement on the nerves cause clusters, why are some of us episodic? Why do our cycles end, and the herniation stays? I say no connection.

My last cycle started 5 days AFTER a disk nucleoplasty procedure in L5/S1 and L4/L5, both were herniated. I'd had pain down my leg for the better part of 2 cluster-PF years. The procedure significantly reduced the pain down my leg, but the cycle (coincidentally?) started right after I got off the Vicadin.

I now have C6/C7 disk herniation in my neck. In december, the pain down my arm was unbelievable (still not as bad as the cluster headache, though). I've had now 2 epidural steroid injections there. Got rid of the arm pain, and still cycle free.

For me, no connection.

Title: Re: Spine Check Up
Post by FramCire on Feb 7^th, 2006, 11:13am

Just to add my story, my first cycle began in September of 2004. Ended 6 weeks later and the very next day I started having shooting pain down my arm. I had surgery in December replacing 2 disks (w/ fusion) and recovery took me almost 11 months. The DAY after my first PF day from the surgery, I started my current cycle (mid/late November).

Anyway, the fusion is healed finally and the pain was gone, but the CHs returned the very next day.

Hey, at least I have had 2 PF days in the last 17 months or so. (however the bulk of it was arm pain (from disk) which was MUCH more managable than CH pain, so I can't complain)

Title: Re: Spine Check Up
Post by Bob_Johnson on Feb 7^th, 2006, 1:42pm

I'm not saying this article applies directly to you but suggesting that I'd like to run your situation by a good headache specialist. Just sometimes the unexpected is waiting to be discovered.
------
Headache. 1992 Nov;32(10):504-6.

Cluster headache following head injury: a case report and review of the literature.

Turkewitz LJ, Wirth O, Dawson GA, Casaly JS.

Midwest Center for Head-Pain Management, Troy, Ohio 45373.

A relation between head trauma and cluster headache is frequently described in the literature. The percentage of cluster patients with a history of head injury is approximately 16.5 when several large studies are reviewed. The present paper reports another case where there is close proximity between head injury and the onset of cluster headache. A review of the literature attempts to document the supposition that there is indeed a causal or precipitous role for head injury in cluster cephalgia pathogenesis.

Publication Types:
Case Reports
Review
Review of Reported Cases

PMID: 1468909

Title: Re: Spine Check Up
Post by Chip80 on Mar 10^th, 2006, 3:27pm

I am convinced that trauma to the head and/or nerves that branch out of the spine to the neck/shoulder area can trigger CH.

I never had CH until a year after a bicycle racing accident where I landed on my head and right shoulder at 30+ mph. I had much nerve damage to my right shoulder and shoulder blade (caused a winging scapula). Concussion with a closed head injury and short term memory loss. The helmet saved my life.

Here's my theory, as it applies to my injury and CH.

As my shoulder healed, lots of scar tissue formed around the various nerves that branch out of the neck area into the shoulder and under the shoulder blade. If I strain my shoulder/neck muscles the nerves also get irritated since they are now intertwined with scar tissue (which by the way is very inflexible) and a CH will be triggered. I can actually trace from the source of the pain up the nerve at the right side base of my neck which then results in (as my doctor put it) referred pain in the trigeminal nerve branches around my right eye.

I never had CH before my accident, so i supposed it's conceivable that the head injury could also have contributed to CHs starting. In addition to strains to my right shoulder, alcohol, and purfume will always trigger a CH - never did before the accident.

As long as I keep my shoulders, back and chest muscles in top shape from exercising (I use a Bowflex), I can usually prevent shoulder/neck strains. However, I got lazy, stopped the Bowflex for a year and paid the price when I strained my shoulder from moving furniture in January. My CH's subsided in the middle of Feb and I've been back at the Bowflex since then.

Title: Re: Spine Check Up
Post by Richr8 on Mar 10^th, 2006, 4:13pm

on 02/07/06 at 10:24:19, marlinsfan wrote:

I now have C6/C7 disk herniation in my neck. In december, the pain down my arm was unbelievable (still not as bad as the cluster headache, though). I've had now 2 epidural steroid injections there. Got rid of the arm pain, and still cycle free.
For me, no connection.

Quite interesting. I was going through a similar event with my spine, C3/C4 arm pain etc., when my rogue summer CH bout started. Prior to this event, they all began in the fall. I was receiving physical therapy for my spine at the time with little result. I then began my pred taper for CH, within three days my neck was fine, thank heavens. The doc said it was most likely due to the prednisone. If he would have given me steroids for my neck, would that have averted that bout? This crap is way too complicated.

Title: Re: Spine Check Up
Post by mynm156 on Mar 10^th, 2006, 10:44pm

on 02/06/06 at 18:39:25, dallasny wrote:

To be rid of the Clusters, it would be worth asking the doctor for an MRI of the cervical spine. Good luck and I hope this helps. May all your clusters be few or far between!!!!!

Dude you cant have an MRI anymore because of the Titanium. At best you might get paralyzed at worst It will get ripped right out of you. M is for MAGNETIC!

So Dont even ask.

Title: Re: Spine Check Up
Post by chewy on Mar 11^th, 2006, 9:13am

I am not saying trauma "causes" clusters. I'm saying it may "trigger" clusters.

I've been episodic for 30 years with no trauma so I cant point to that as a trigger, but something as simple as a long drive will trigger.

If a long drive can trigger then I'm pretty sure trauma can to. Repairing the trauma may very well eliminate a trigger.

Title: Re: Spine Check Up
Post by mynm156 on Mar 11^th, 2006, 12:17pm

"I am not saying trauma "causes" clusters. I'm saying it may "trigger" clusters."

I would say sure I bet there are more than a couple of us that started having these after a traumatic event. I am not one of them but I would not rule it out. Might be worth a thread.

Title: Re: Spine Check Up
Post by kcopelin on Mar 12^th, 2006, 7:09am

Hmmm.There does seem to be some neck involvement in my CH-but haven't had any injuries that I am aware of. Tried chiro and massage therapy becasue of this and after three visits a week for 3 months the headaches stopped. ::)Right on schedule. By, hey I helped put braces on that nice young chiros daughter so it was worth it. All my MRI's and CT scans have been as normal as can be expected.
However, I'm with Chewy on this-everyones got a trigger. Mine-relaxation, too much sleep, alcohol and seasonal changes.
PFDAN
kathy

Title: Re: Spine Check Up
Post by Melissa on Mar 12^th, 2006, 8:46am

Mine started a couple months after I had whiplash...so yeah, I'd say it triggered mine off.

Title: Re: Spine Check Up
Post by Lizzie2 on Mar 12^th, 2006, 9:11am

on 03/11/06 at 12:17:08, mynm156 wrote:

Might be worth a thread.

If you look back, there are actually several threads polling such a thing. :)

They've also begun to look at other triggers - one that was more recently studied was heavy to exposure to second hand smoke during childhood.

Sometimes we're just walking genetic time-bombs waiting for the switch to flip. What happens after that is another story - how the switch is flipped doesn't necessarily point to episodic, chronic, and other specifics to clusters - but the fact that many people suffered head trauma or other similar events prior to having CH perhaps does indicate that these things flip the switch, and then our brain and genetics do the rest.

I have at least 3 different type of headache disorders and one of those is a never-ending migraine, so it took me quite awhile to sort out what symptoms went with different headache types. For awhile I felt like 'headache soup' LOL With the help of BillyJ and other great people here, I finally was able to gather what symptom went with what headache type instead of lumping it all together.

Seems my CH almost came from CPH that morphed sometime back in 2003. I startedd having shorter lasting, stabbing headaches up to 40 times a day in the fall of that year. It was weird because it seemed they were there, and I knew they were terribly painful, but what really caught me was the ones that attacked when I was out on the ice skating because I'd be inventing new moves to avoid total crashes. In the beginning, it seemed they came and went fairly quickly, with a few here and there that lasted about 90 minutes or so. As time went on, the shorter ones left and the longer ones stayed and actually hit on an exact schedule every night for a long time...about 6 times a night.

The 'head trauma' for me was a bad fall at the ice rink. I was practicing edges and had basically hardly pushed off to start and lost my balance. Knew better than to fall backwards, but I didn't think to rotate - even now, it still seems like it took a lifetime to go from upright to breaking my fall with the back of my head and neck. Hearing that crack. Nothing broke. One girl told me later that I didn't even make a noise - all anyone could hear was the awful crack of my fall.

I remember thinking , "Get off the ice, y ou idiot...Nice going..." I rolled over and it seemed like the ice was on the ceiling and everything was spinning - all I heard was this ringing noise and I felt sick to my stomach - eveyrthing was blurry. I collapsed down and my coach skated over to me and said "Don't move." She and another girl laid me down and I remember Dena (my coach) having her hand under the back of my head. Other skaters were taking off their coats. The funniest thing was having Dena call for an ice pack - I kept thinking, "I'm already ON ice!"

I remember a cop got there first. He practically fell coming out onto the ice, and as he got over next to me, he looked down and said, "Are you hurt?" I wanted to say, "No I just felt like lying down and making an ice angel you idiot - OF COURSE I'm HURT!" Then the paramedics came and too almost fell getting out to me! haha I remember the one medic asking me if the neck collar was uncomfortable and then saying, "Good, that's how it should be." LOL They left my skates on.

Once I got to Mount Nittany Med Ctr however - good Lord what a crock. I was strapped to the backboard and my cell phone, bag, etc were totally out of reach. After about 30 mintes, this woman from housekeeping came over to mop the floor and said, "Oh nobody's seen you yet have they! I'll go say something!" World class rural medicine at its finest....

They ended up diagnosing it as a bad neck sprain and a minor concussion. They did give me demerol or something, which y ou're not supposed to give to people who have head injuries. I remember the world was still spinning when I walked out to the waiting room later to meet my roommate, and I ended up throwing up for hours at home later - but none of my roommates even checked on me! Responsible college kids... ::)

I did have to go to PT and I was forced to take a week off the ice - the accident happened on a Wednesday, and I was back on the ice the following Wednesday. :) On Friday and Monday during class time, I sat behind the boards and my coach brought her demonstrations for our class right next to the boards so I could learn too. Couldn't keep me away for long!

And that's the long version of my CH "trigger"....at least as I remember it. :)

Carrie :)

Title: Re: Spine Check Up
Post by mynm156 on Mar 12^th, 2006, 8:05pm

Interesting.

Title: Re: Spine Check Up
Post by cootie on Mar 21^st, 2006, 11:25pm

Brad's ch started soon after sumone dropped a hammer onto his head from the roof of a garage. He was helpin install onea them big old heavy satillites and was just startin to climb the ladder when the other guys hammer slipped that was already on the roof. Never had them before that.........matter fact he rarely even had a headache cept for a hangover or two. Knock knock knockin on Bradley's head Pam