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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies >> Water
        
(Message started by: Elecourt on Feb 2^nd, 2006, 4:21am)

Title: Water
Post by Elecourt on Feb 2^nd, 2006, 4:21am

Hi, I discovered the "water treatment" on your site and and I was wandering if anyone knows the way it works ? The point is I started it about three days ago, and luck or not my attacks are less painfull and also I went down from 8 a day to two a day.
Last night I even had one and surprisingly it went away with two glasses of water.
So if anyone could tell me some more about water, I'd be gratefull.

Title: Re: Water
Post by Jenny G on Feb 2^nd, 2006, 2:43pm

I just started a medication (unrealted to headaches) that makes me extremely thirsty, therefore I have been drinking tons of water (with ice). When I start to get really parched, I can feel shadows coming on, so I just drink, drink.

This has made a signifigant impact on the kip level, they are much more "bearable" if you want to call it that.

The one day I was away from my water, they were awful. I noticed that when the creature wakes me at night, I am thirsty, so I drink a large glass of water and the bastards seem to never hit their full potential or duration. Although, it is still early into my cycle....

Title: Can't add much other than ...
Post by Richr8 on Feb 2^nd, 2006, 3:48pm

... I learned about it here recently also, and things have just seemed to improve slightly. Every little bit helps. The easiest way to lose a pond is to find sixteen ways to lose an ounce. I am glad you are getting some relief.
Lots of great advice and support here.
Rich

Title: Re: Can't add much other than ...
Post by Margi on Feb 2^nd, 2006, 4:08pm

on 02/02/06 at 15:48:09, Richr8 wrote:

The easiest way to lose a pound is to find sixteen ways to lose an ounce.

LMAO that's got to be about the best description of this ~~science~~ practice of cluster treatments we all use, that I've ever seen! Good one! :)

My husband had success with the water treatment when it was first brought to the old ch.com board in 1998. It totally ended a cycle for him. But never did again in entirety. However, he still does use the water water water treatment when he first goes into cycle and he says it does make his hits easier to take. Now that he's sworn completely off conventional meds for the next cycle, I'm sure he'll get more religious about the water treatment. (His doc told him not to do it when he was on lithium and then, verapamil, for fear it would wash all the meds out of his system. It's a LOT of water to drink and not real easy to accomplish!)

Thanks, Jonny, for letting me know about this thread. :-*

Title: Re: Water
Post by tommyD on Feb 2^nd, 2006, 7:41pm

Staying well hydrated, though not necessarily to the water X3 extent, seems to help keep the shadows and minor hits away for me. And water X3 helped me break up a cycle some years ago.

I also picked up a trick - the cold water chug - it sometimes works:

At the first sign of an attack drink down a full quart of cold water as quickly as you comfortably can. Try to get it all down within a couple of minutes. It seems to help if you swallow so the water washes down the back of your throat.

I have had this knock out an attack in five to ten minutes. But it doesn’t always work. And it’s not recommended for situations without easy access to facilities.

I suspect (who knows?) it is the cold, not the water, that does the trick. Last kip 5 (slapback from a shroom dose) I had, I hit it with the cold water chug and then stood on the concrete basement floor in bare feet. The beast was gone in 5 minutes, but I shivered for 15 minutes and peed for 20.

And I liked it.

-tommyD

Title: Re: Water
Post by jmorgan52 on Feb 3^rd, 2006, 2:44am

Shoot me if you like, but I think that maybe the reason the water treatment works for some people is that it helps to flush the toxins out of your system by unblocking all the crap stuck in your colon that is poisoning you and causing your hypothalmus to go wonky.

Ueli won't believe this ;;D

Title: Re: Water
Post by sandie99 on Feb 3^rd, 2006, 3:56am

I'm a keen water drinker. Always have. So I'm so happy to read that it has helped with ch. For me, though, water treatment didn't work. But that fact doesn't keep me from drinking lots of water! ;)

PF days & nights to all,
Sanna

Title: Re: Water
Post by CHTom on Feb 3^rd, 2006, 2:29pm

on 02/03/06 at 02:44:30, jmorgan52 wrote:

Could work, depending upon where your brain is located
:)

Title: Re: Water
Post by Richr8 on Feb 3^rd, 2006, 2:43pm

[smiley=laugh.gif]

Title: Re: Water
Post by Guiseppi on Feb 3^rd, 2006, 3:40pm

To Jmorgan, as little as science actually seems to understand the body, it won't suprise me if we learn 10 years from now that cluster headaches were caused entirely from wearing underwear that's too tight!!! Until then, throw out every idea you've got, all are free to take or ignore whatever they read! PF days and nites to all.

Guiseppi

Title: Re: Water
Post by Margi on Feb 3^rd, 2006, 4:51pm

actually, the water treatment was originally brought to us by a doctor who lived in South Africa who just happened to be a cluster sufferer himself. He believed the reason why this treatment works for some is that it changes the salts balance in your system. I dunno. I'm just the messenger when it comes to the water treatment. Doc Jerry never did come back here after he posted his findings. I'm hoping that means he's enjoying remission now.

Title: Re: Water
Post by tommyD on Feb 3^rd, 2006, 11:24pm

Well I meant I thought the cold water chug worked as an abortive due to the cold; chilling the head from the inside and redirecting blood to deal with all that cold water in your gut.

Keeping well hydrated may indeed have to due with salt balance. When dealing with the leftovers from the alternative treatment, I find that getting a little dehydrated is an invitation to the hard shadows

And I find that salt also brings on the shadows and minor hits. A little salt is no problem, but a bowl of chips or canned soup is asking for it.

-tommyD

Title: Re: Water
Post by jmorgan52 on Feb 4^th, 2006, 2:50am

I am sticking by my theories relating to a "clean" body equals a healthy body!

The more I research the detox and colonic cleansing the more I realise the strong link between the colon and the hypothalmus. The hypothalmus controls just about everything in the human body, from our moods to our heartbeat to our digestive system.

This needs proper nourishment, and the colon is key to this. If it contains years of hard acummulated waste that is festering away in our sewage system this affects every single organ, gland and lymph system.

The connection is pretty clear to me.

As to why water/detox etc does not help everyone clear the system (colon), I am beginning to think it depends on just how clogged the individual colon is. For some it may be very clogged, leading to all sort of ailments to tiredness, overweight, cancer, and the evil headaches.

And Tom - just because th ebrain is not close to the colon does not mean our digestive and waste management system does not equally feed or poison the whole of the body depending on what it contains.

John

Title: Re: Water
Post by JonB on Feb 4^th, 2006, 7:06am

Well, most doctors kind of smirk or scoff when I tell them about water treatment.
I have found that large amounts of cold water/ice water can have an abortive effect. However, I have never found that large amounts of water throughout the day will act as a preventive.
My theory on why it works as an abortive is not so far fetched in my view.....
Cluster are caused -at least in part- by ballooning blood vessels. Thus, blood pressure comes into play as a factor. I believe putting a large amount of cold water into the stomach will cause a sudden change in BP.

Just my thoughts.

Jon

Title: Re: Water
Post by CHTom on Feb 4^th, 2006, 11:59am

on 02/04/06 at 02:50:19, jmorgan52 wrote:

You are right-I think that Ex-Lax would do wonders for CH pain-clean colon, here I come!

Title: Re: Water
Post by chewy on Feb 4^th, 2006, 12:08pm

Quote:

As to why water/detox etc does not help everyone clear the system (colon), I am beginning to think it depends on just how clogged the individual colon is.

Your so off base that your not even in the ball park. I hope a newbie looking for some help and relief isn't paying attention to your ridiculous theories.

Title: Re: Water
Post by jmorgan52 on Feb 4^th, 2006, 1:19pm

Tom - your narrow minded brain is obviously much closer to your arse than you think.

I have suffered from CH for most of my 54 years. I have spent most of my adult life searching for a cure, and the best thing that I found in about the mid nineties was the Imigran Injection. It was the first and and still is th eonly thing I have ever found to abort a full blown cluster HA.

Since coming to this board several years I have been looking for something to PREVENT the attacks in the first place. I have tried all the preventatives discussed on this board over the year to no effect.

About 4 years ago I was at a health trade fair when a big CH hit me. I had been in cycle for about 2 months and was at the end of my rope. Fortunately I had the inj kit with me so I "shot up" and 10 mins later I was ok again.

I looked at all sorts of "headache cures" being punted - everything from Shiatsu massagers to electrical muscle stimulators. I came across a guy who was promoting a detox drink who said it would fix my headaches within days, which I thoght was total bullshit. My wife said I had nothing to lose as the first weeks supply was free! I followed the instructions to the letter regarding diet for the week - nothing but lots of fresh water and this drink daily and only fresh fruit and vegetables to eat. Nothing else.

On around day 2 I started with an intense headache that was very different from CH, it was all over my head and neck. This lasted for about 3 or 4 days and I somehow toughed it out. I also shit an enourmous amount of vile stuff over these 5 days. The next day the headache was gone and I had no more CH for about 18 months.

The next cycle was around Christmas/New Year 2 years ago. I felt I couldn't do the detox over the festive season especially as I had visitors so I used 1/2 shots of trex inj (thanks to this site!). I started the detox on around the 3rd Jan and went through the same detox HA, but not so much shitting :) the CH stopped in about the same time frame and I have been HA free since then.

But.... I have no illusions that I am "cured" so I have been looking at ways to remain drug free for the rest of my life.

As to your stupid comments about newbies, you are so far off the mark, not me. What I am trying to promote is safe (YES SAFE!) which is more than I can say for all the drugs I pumped over the years to try and fix this damn CH.

If you are so cynical then reaearch the subject before you shoot from the hip. I for one am tired of waiting for the Goadsbys of the world (I am not knocking the good work they are doing) to pronounce a cure or even a confirm reason for this affliction we suffer from.

One thing is for sure - IT IS NOT A DISEASE!

My firm belief is that what you put into your body (and cannot illiminate properly) causes the many problems and illnesses humans suffer from.

wake up to this and maybe some progress will be made.

John

Title: Re: Water
Post by CHTom on Feb 4^th, 2006, 1:32pm

Did you mean "illuminate" or "eliminate"? If it is the latter, mornings will be a real trip :o! Now back to the Ex Lax.

Title: Re: Water
Post by BobG on Feb 4^th, 2006, 1:57pm

Hey John, you're making this up as you go along, right? [smiley=laugh.gif]

on 02/03/06 at 02:44:30, jmorgan52 wrote:

flush the toxins out of your system by unblocking all the crap stuck in your colon that is poisoning you and causing your hypothalmus to go wonky.

Your hypothalamus was 'wonky' when you were born.

on 02/03/06 at 02:44:30, jmorgan52 wrote:

Ueli won't believe this

Neither will BobG

P.S.
My trigeminal nerve is in no way connected to my waste management system.

And, P.P.S.
And a clogged sewer system did not cause me to be plump. Too many double cheeseburgers, pizzas, Reese’s pieces, Cokes, cake, cookies and any other junk food I can stuff into my pie hole made me that way. I’m down to 270 pounds now. That is merely plump. I used to be fat though.....last week.

modified to add:
Oops, sorry to hijack the water subject. I'll go drink some now
in my coffee.

Title: Re: Water
Post by Jasmyn on Feb 4^th, 2006, 7:09pm

As it is so hot here in Mozambique we drink about 6 -8 litres(about 1.7 gallons) of water a day. Quite a lot of salts are lost due to perspiration and obviously flushing our systems with water.

We do not take salt tablets when we start cramping but just up our salt intake in food. I found that eating too salty foods like seafood, especially my favourite anchovy pizza, really brings on the beast, a major trigger.

But, I also noted that I do not get hit more or less with these amounts of water. O, by the way, my colon is flushed everyday - grandma believed a healthy body is a vessel for a healthy mind (boy was she wrong ;;D).

What I did find was that if you swirl ice cold water around in your mouth and then swallow it, it helps with the intensity and sometimes abort an attack when caught in time.

Title: Re: Water
Post by jon019 on Feb 6^th, 2006, 12:08am

Hello All,

Lots of theories here. No one knows, so I have one too.

Excessive salt is a problem for me re CH. Have been drinking LOTS of water for years now. Seems to help and has added benefits for other problems I have.( I would caution that while too much water is probably better than not enough, keep your doc informed as it could have unintended side effects).

Whether it is altering the salt/electroyte balance in me and that is somehow helpful I couldn't say. Possibly is affecting blood pressure or blood thickness (every time I have a blood draw the tech comments on the thinness and surmises-you must drink lots of water) to my benefit.

That said, I note that several people have commented on aborting or diminishing hits by immediate water chugging. That's great and I encourage whatever works for you. The theory part is this. The human body is a marvelous machine and stasis is the norm and dang hard to change. Rapid water consumption upon onset is just not going to change your body chemistry in anything like enough time to affect a ch. However, rapid swallowing may just affect the physiology of a hit. (Personally, I can't swallow during a hit as I drool like a bulldog and it hurts to swallow). Or maybe it's the COLD water along with the swallowing that does the trick (ice cream works for some). Or maybe its the change in blood flow to the stomach in response to ingestion.

Point is, and I'll say it again, nobody knows. But it is fascinating to think about and worth more study. I still firmly believe that the answer doesn't have to be more drugs, and research doesn't have to be concentrated ONLY on new drugs. Water, the right way and the right time? Think about it.

Regards

Jon

Title: Re: Water
Post by Margi on Feb 6^th, 2006, 10:33am

Tom, for what it's worth - I think you're right about the cold and it's abortive properties. Cold reduces swelling, thereby reducing pain.

I also think there is merit to colon cleansing, just for overall health. I believe that, when in cycle, a clusterhead's sensitivities are heightened and if you can improve your general overall health, then the sensitivities aren't going to be so much of a problem (maybe foods that were once a "trigger" won't be if you're system isn't clogged?) I don't believe that colon cleansing is a cluster cure, don't get me wrong, but I think your body will work better after this kind of maintenance. I also don't think the water treatment is a cluster cure but, again, it can make things easier.

my two cents, anyway. :)

Title: Re: Water
Post by CHTom on Feb 6^th, 2006, 12:18pm

I find it difficult to believe that intelligent people still believe in "colon cleansing". Unless you have some sort of disease, your colon cleans itself quite nicely, thank you, when you defecate. The idea of using colonics or laxatives to "clean" your colon and thus keep you healthy is 18th century, or earlier, medicine that is nonsense and has no basis in medical fact. Should we return to the concept of the body containing "humors" (I think that there were 7 of them) and return to bleeding ourselves to rid the body of "poisons" and restore the "balance" of the "humors"? To suggest that the colon is somehow connected to the hypothalamus and that by using a purgative or enemas to induce more than normal defecation is total nonsense. Their are people who are laxative junkies and one of the reasons often given for the excessive use of laxatives is to keep that old colon clean. Unless your head is up your ass, there is no connection between the brain and the colon that will effect cluster headaches or any other brain disorder. Shit all you want, but your CH will not get any better and you will have a sore ass to contend with as well (and you may become a laxative junkie-oy, the shame!). Now where did I put those leaches? :P

Title: Re: Water
Post by Margi on Feb 6^th, 2006, 1:14pm

LOL, CHTom, you've obviously never done a cleanse. I believe the word 'vile' was used in this thread as a description of what is cleansed when you're doing one. That's a very good adjective in this regard.
While I agree with you (as I said) that I believe this has little to do with a cluster cure, I don't see much wrong with a little housecleaning now and then, especially considering all the preservatives and sticky stuff (that does NOT eliminate itself with 100% efficiency) contained in our western diet.
You might want to try a cleanse sometime, actually. You sound a little constipated.

Title: Re: Water
Post by CHTom on Feb 6^th, 2006, 1:26pm

Well, people do sometimes tell me that I'm full of shit [smiley=laugh.gif]

Title: Re: Water
Post by pattik on Feb 6^th, 2006, 1:48pm

on 02/06/06 at 12:18:49, CHTom wrote:

Unless your head is up your ass, there is no connection between the brain and the colon that will effect cluster headaches or any other brain disorder.

[smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif]

Good one! Although I agree with you, I am also interested in the enteric nevous system--who knows, maybe the two brains are more connected than we think, but I don't in any way think that colonics are going to improve any connection.
http://www.hosppract.com/issues/1999/07/gershon.htm

Title: Re: Water
Post by Margi on Feb 6^th, 2006, 2:15pm

on 02/06/06 at 13:26:02, CHTom wrote:

Well, people do sometimes tell me that I'm full of shit [smiley=laugh.gif]

LMAO see, now, I was too polite to put it that way.
But I did think it quietly to myself, though. ;)

Title: Re: Water
Post by LeLimey on Feb 6^th, 2006, 2:18pm

Thank you Margi for saving me from myself! ;)

Title: Re: Water
Post by Margi on Feb 6^th, 2006, 2:28pm

LOL I saw you online there, Helen, and figured I might be able beat you to the punch. Your posts are always much more eloquent than mine so, please feel free. The floor is yours, my dear. :)

Title: Re: Water
Post by jmorgan52 on Feb 9^th, 2006, 4:00am

Tom - Just for the record, being as you like the shit talk so much :

You keep on about laxatives, but I never once mentioned laxatives, I have never used them, I don'y recommend them and I also don't agree with their use as they can serious create dependance on them for shitting. You need to use your good strong colon muscles to shit properl!y

Also for your information - Constipation is not just about straining for a shit or not being able to shit. You can be constipated and still produce shit. This new shit squeezes past any small gaps in any colon blockages which may be small or large and come out the end as both runny or solid matter.

My own (fairly short) personal experience of the colonic was that the first time I went, the warm water was not able to pass the first "bend" in the colon on my left hand side until quite a few times of filling up. I was then massaged in the area and eventually that blockage cleared and masses and masses of shit them came out.

Then it was able to fill up to the next bend on my right hand side and nothing could then persuade it to pass this point and I was getting tired by then from the cramps.

I then started to eat a mixture of sunflower seeds, oat bran, linseeds and sesame seeds all ground up in a coffee grinder with fresh fruit and yoghurt for breakfast for a week for more roughage.

My shitting was much easier than previously.

I went back for the next session a week later and they passed the first bend quite easily and then came to the same blockage as before on my right hand side. After several "fills" and more massaging this blockage came free and more vile nasty deep black shit came streaming out, then the water came out clean on the next fill.

I felt like I had done lots of stomach muscle exercises after each visit. The filling up is done under gravity so no "pressure" is applied. No force filling takes place! The filling does stretch the colon slightly (back to it's normal shape and diameter which is a good thing as it exercises the muscles used to normally pass the shit.

My shitting them became really easy. Just sit and shit! Soon after each meal and clean as a whistle.

I went a third time after 2 months as they recommended to get the colon to retain it's proper shape and it took a only a very slight effort to get past the 1st and 2nd bend but was much easier than the previous visits. I have been recommed to vist again in 6 months and then once a year to help maintain the correct colon shape for healthy shitting.

The colon unfortunately has several natural bends, which can become kinks and then blockages due to various possible reasons - maybe too much sitting, bad posture, idleness, poor diet, who knows for sure.

The bad press on colonics and your "18th century viewpoint" and the quackery sites all seem to be claiming that this practice is harmful because a few people may have died or been seriously ill due to perforated colons. I do not dispute that there may be some risk but.... If you are going to do this then go to a reputable medical clinic and don't just trust anyone or use a "home kit". If you are having serious bowel problems anyway then don't do this treatment without discussing it with your doctor (or maybe they are all as closed minded in the USA as Tom is?)

If you don't believe your digestive and waste system is responsible for your health and brain function the you are a total idiot. Just consume anything harmful like rotten food and see how your quickly your body reacts as it tries to get rid of the poison, sometimes without success.

This may not be the cure for CH, but the detox is working for me and I see this as the next step for more rapid detox and will keep on doing it. The detox diet alone may not be enough fo rsome people to get the benefit I got. This is now my preventative of choice and I am sticking with it until it proves me wrong.

I have weighed up the risks, and the benefits to me personally far outweight them. CH is not an option for me, and neither is having to used massive quantities of imigran injections, prednisone, etc etc.

Keep on taking the drugs if you want but I think I have found something that works for me and feel strongly that I should share this info with others so they can make their own choice.

John

Title: Re: Water
Post by Dragnlance on Feb 9^th, 2006, 11:21am

I have no idea how you can put icewater into your body when having a full blown ch. That would KILL me! I need HOT, or at least room temp water. I never could figure out how people could use cold packs.. UGGGGG!!!

Title: Re: Water
Post by CHTom on Feb 9^th, 2006, 2:50pm

The colon and the intestines are SUPPOSED to be "bent" as we have several feet of them and they won't fit if they were straight. If you want to waste your time and money getting them "straightened out" every few months, go at it-sounds like you are going to Dr. Quack. If what you say is true, then those of us who have not had your "treatment" should surely be dying or in the hospital what with all of that old waste just sitting around in our digestive system and filling our bodies with poisons. My last-question on this subject is what type of personality disorder do you have-anal retentive or anal expulsive or a combination of both?

Title: Re: Water
Post by jmorgan52 on Feb 9^th, 2006, 3:26pm

Hi Tom

Of course there are bends in the colon this is unfortunate as the can cause blockages - just like a water house that has not been carefully coiled up after use.

I not sure you really deserve a response and I can see you are not convinced. You do sound very constipated.

Go back to your cave and then go f..k yourself