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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies >> DON'T MIX TRIPTANS!! It MAY KILL YOU!! (nt)
        
(Message started by: Nosferatu on Jan 22^nd, 2006, 1:32am)

Title: DON'T MIX TRIPTANS!! It MAY KILL YOU!! (nt)
Post by Nosferatu on Jan 22^nd, 2006, 1:32am

Title: Thanks for Sharing (nt)
Post by Mr. Happy on Jan 22^nd, 2006, 3:09am

(Just how do you modify a No Text response?)

Title: Re: DON'T MIX TRIPTANS!! It MAY KILL YOU!! (nt)
Post by FramCire on Jan 22^nd, 2006, 3:13pm

Honestly, this is one of the most important posts on this board. I never knew this and my Dr gave me a bunch of samples and didn't warn me about this. While I knew never to take more than 2 doses in 24 hours (that was my Dr.s/pharmasists directions), they never told me not to mix triptans.

I love this place because it honestly could have saved my life.

Title: Re: DON'T MIX TRIPTANS!! It MAY KILL YOU!! (nt)
Post by brewcrew on Jan 22^nd, 2006, 4:56pm

on 01/22/06 at 15:13:07, FramCire wrote:

At the same time, most of the people on this board are not doctors, so do take what they say with a grain of salt.

Here's another thing to take with a grain of salt (since I'm not a doctor, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night) - my neuro has told me that it's fine for me to mix triptans. I am an otherwise healthy 45-yr-old male with no history of heart disease. I take Amerge twice a day along with my other preventatives when I'm in cycle, and take Maxalt to abort when necessary. In two on-and-off (mostly off) years of doing this, no problems.

Bill

Title: Re: DON'T MIX TRIPTANS!! It MAY KILL YOU!! (nt)
Post by Bec on Jan 22^nd, 2006, 8:09pm

Bill

I am not a Dr or do I play one on TV. But....
Taking and mixing triptans is drangerous. I am very gald you have had no problems doing that. We do have someone on the board that did it and has some major problems. I hope they chime in and explain what happed to them when they did.
I have been to 3 of the top Neuro's and was told never to mix them. I do not understand why your Dr told you it was ok.
PF wishes
bec

Title: Re: DON'T MIX TRIPTANS!! It MAY KILL YOU!! (nt)
Post by catlind on Jan 22^nd, 2006, 9:13pm

Roxy mixed triptans. She has NO history of heart disease. A very healthy 40ish woman who is very physically active and in very good health. She took a zomig nasal, and she did a shot of imitrex, 1/3 shot, shortly after that.

I am the one who called the ambulance and had to sit with her in the hospital while we waited to find out if she had in fact had a heart attack. I'm the one who had to call her husband and tell him. If YOU wish to mix triptans Bill, then that is your choice, but even suggesting it could be acceptable is not a wise thing to do on these boards. People get very desperate, and that then results in a very scarey situation for more than yourself. Roxy was lucky, she suffered no damage, but I will tell you that she came as close as one can come and then still walk away.

Do NOT MIX triptans.

Cat

Title: Re: DON'T MIX TRIPTANS!! It MAY KILL YOU!! (nt)
Post by chewy on Jan 22^nd, 2006, 9:16pm

Quote:

so do take what they say with a grain of salt.

Then why, prey tell Brewcrew, are you here reading the boards?

Title: Re: DON'T MIX TRIPTANS!! It MAY KILL YOU!! (nt)
Post by brewcrew on Jan 22^nd, 2006, 9:48pm

on 01/22/06 at 21:16:13, chewy wrote:

Then why, prey tell Brewcrew, are you here reading the boards?

If you have a problem with me being here, by all means, I encourage you to notify a moderator immediately.

Is taking medical advice from someone who is not licensed to give it something we should swallow hook, line and sinker? Or should we consider all angles and then make up our own minds (i.e., taking it with a grain of salt)?

I apologize if you felt insulted. I do not apologize for the advice I gave. For some people, it is apparently safe. If you don't know which category you fall into, you should assume it's not safe and consult with your doctor. Is that better?

Bill

Title: Re: DON'T MIX TRIPTANS!! It MAY KILL YOU!! (nt)
Post by catlind on Jan 23^rd, 2006, 8:29am

Bill no one is saying take this information hook line and sinker.

When it comes to triptans, we've had enough people have some very bad experiences, near fatal, that makes it worth begging people desperate from pain not to go that road.

There are many who have said collectively and even individually in some cases, that we know more than the doctors. I've heard that said by well published researcher in the cluster field to a room full of people.

I've worked with a few of the doctors that are top in the country on a professional level with regards to clusters. The only safe advice is not to mix triptans. Many people do mix them, and amerge is a common one, but that doesn't make it a safe thing to advocate in any fashion when you are dealing with people that would often take death over this miserable insidious pain.

Our objective is not to see people gamble with triptans when we say do NOT mix them. If your doc has said it's safe, check again with your pharmacist.

Doctors regularly prescribe medications that cannot be used together or shouldn't be used in a patient for other reasons without fully knowing what the drug is capable of. Case in point is a prescription to me for flexoril and ultram. I DO have a cardiac condition, and have had it since age 16, and you are NOT supposed to take a flexoril, a muscle relaxer with heart conditions. It doesn't make my doc any less competent at treating illness, her specialty isn't pharmaceuticals. I always research drugs on my own, and ask the pharmacist if I have questions.

It's not about wanting people to swallow medical advice from non licensed persons, it's about knowing how desperate this blasted affliction leaves people, and they will try anything, ANYTHING to rid themselves of the pain.

Cat

Title: Re: DON'T MIX TRIPTANS!! It MAY KILL YOU!! (nt)
Post by brewcrew on Jan 23^rd, 2006, 9:27am

on 01/23/06 at 08:29:18, catlind wrote:

Many people do mix them, and amerge is a common one, but that doesn't make it a safe thing to advocate in any fashion when you are dealing with people that would often take death over this miserable insidious pain.

Cat,

Nowhere have I advocated this practice. I have merely stated that it is safe for some. Therefore, it is inaccurate to state that it should not be done. I will agree wholeheartedly that it is ill-advised to do so before consulting your doctor, but it is downright disingenuous to state that it should not be done.

I understand the desire of people on this board to be safe rather than sorry. I am the same way. I was hesitant to mix them before my neuro gave me the green light.

It works for me. It works for some others. It doesn't work for all. Please don't accuse me of advocating something when, indeed, I do not.

Bill

Title: Re: DON'T MIX TRIPTANS!! It MAY KILL YOU!! (nt)
Post by catlind on Jan 23^rd, 2006, 9:45am

Bill it was not my intention to accuse you of anything. I do apologize if that was the interpretation.

That is precisely why it's best to not to suggest even that it is safe for 'some'. The words on the internet take on the meaning of the reader. I do not want to suggest you shouldn't tell people what you are doing, I just don't believe it's advisable to even suggest it might be safe for some.

Posting that you are taking amerge and maxalt within a given 24 hour period on the advice of your neuro is one thing, saying that doing so is safe for 'some' can and will and has been interpreted by others as if it's safe for them it's safe for me, I don't have heart conditions etc. so I can do it too.

I'm not trying to accuse you of anything, I'm not trying to tell you not to post what you are doing, I'm just trying to explain that even using the terms safe for some can and will be taken as ok for me for many who won't talk to their doctors.

The rule of thumb here has become, for good reason, do NOT mix triptans. Because of the incidents with members here, we steer clear of even suggesting it may be safe for some but talk to your doctor first, as many will not wait to hear back from their doctors, they'll take matters into their own hands first.

Out of curiousity, have you asked the pharmacist about the potential for interactions with the 2? I'm not asking so I can say "I told you so" or any other hidden agenda, I am asking in an effort to be sure you have gotten all the facts from all possible sources. You don't have to even post a yes or no to the question, just be sure, for your own safety, that you have gotten the information from a source that is far better versed in pharmaceuticals than most if not all doctors. Discussions with some of the leading docs in the field, all well published and highly recognized docs, have indicated that mixing triptans is an absolute no-no and that pharmacists can give a better description of the interactions.

I have worked closely with Dr.'s Sheftell, Rapoport, Tepper and Researcher and Neurologist Dr. Marcelo Bigal, as well as others in the field. As the chair of the Advocacy Team for OUCH I would be remiss in giving any other advice than to NOT mix the triptans.

It may be a case of symantics, however, that simple statement of it's safe for some, has historically proven that people will mix without talking to their doctors and pharmacists.

This is not a personal attack or attempt to pin you in a corner as 'wrong'. It's about the desperation of many who will take even the slightest encouragement and run with it without seeking medical advice.

Cat

Title: Re: DON'T MIX TRIPTANS!! It MAY KILL YOU!! (nt)
Post by TxBasslady on Jan 23^rd, 2006, 10:15am

on 01/23/06 at 09:45:07, catlind wrote:

It may be a case of symantics, however, that simple statement of it's safe for some, has historically proven that people will mix without talking to their doctors and pharmacists.

This is not a personal attack or attempt to pin you in a corner as 'wrong'. It's about the desperation of many who will take even the slightest encouragement and run with it without seeking medical advice.

Cat speaks from experience. As Cat and Tracey (Roxy) were driving on I-95.....many miles away from home, Tracey and Cat realized that Tracey had mixed the Trex and Zomig. Tracey suffered life threatning symptoms, and Cat stopped in the middle of I-95 and called 911. EMT's thought Tracey was in the middle of a heart attack.

They were there....on I-95, because they were driving to a meeting with the doctors at NECH. Needless to say, the docs from NECH were adamant about their recomendations to NOT mix triptans. Tracey's husband was in West Va, working. Greg busted his ass to get to the hospital.....scared to death of what he would find when he got there.

Because of the reaction of her heart to the mix of triptans, Tracey was left with no options to treat her chronic CH.

Yep, we're not medical docs....but personal experiences and some of the bad shit that happens from mixing, seems to stay etched in our minds.

Therefore, most folks here will always suggest to not mix. As individuals, we do realize that not all meds work the same for all sufferers. Reactions to these meds are also different. Long term use of triptans such as Imitrex just may cause some type of heart problems that we are not even aware of. We may think we have a healthy heart....but sometimes, in the mix of things, we find out different.

Better to be safe......than sorry.

Jean

Title: Re: DON'T MIX TRIPTANS!! It MAY KILL YOU!! (nt)
Post by brewcrew on Jan 23^rd, 2006, 11:04am

Doesn't anybody understand what I'm saying? Yes, better safe than sorry. Don't mix until you've consulted with your doctor. I'll even throw in your pharmacist (to keep Cat happy). But don't leave it at "don't mix triptans. Period." It's completely unfair to those for whom it works.

Title: Re: DON'T MIX TRIPTANS!! It MAY KILL YOU!! (nt)
Post by E-Double on Jan 23^rd, 2006, 11:46am

There are pleanty of people for whom it works.

The big disclaimer is that it has potentially lethal side-effects.

Sipperstien over at Jefferson wanted to do certain clinical trials ( I was reading about migraine....)
and wouldn't conduct it because of the risk.

I think it comes down to so many being desperate and the what if factor.

All pamphlets say not to mix.
I had a fairly bif time doctor tell me it was ok. He told me that 2 hours should suffice when I wanted to switch from zomig to trex.
I preferred not to.
I think I even asked here if it was ok @ the 22 hour mark for me to go ahead and abort....Desperate but didn't want to take the chance as this was when I still a rookie to meds and didnt have O2.

I think with everything there is always risk.
Period!
I have a perfectly strong heart yet I am detoxing not so much to try an alternative, despite getting whacked around the clock but to not have my heart exposed to verapamil for any longer. I don't want to take a chance on the future.

Thanks,

Eric

My choice. It's all the same

Title: Re: DON'T MIX TRIPTANS!! It MAY KILL YOU!! (nt)
Post by catlind on Jan 23^rd, 2006, 12:06pm

Bill I do understand what you are saying. Yes it is highly effective for some, and that's great. Obviously all actions should be consulted with your doctor and/or pharmacist.

The point I am trying to make is that many many people here are at the end of the desperation rope, and seeing the words safe for some as a general post of information will cause them to become the some without consulting a doctor.

If you've never been that desperate, I am thrilled for you. There are some here who are not well versed with CH yet, and some that are absolutely suicidal and desperate. They are the ones that even seeing it's ok for some will be a potential tragedy.

If it works for you that's terrific, and there is nothing wrong with posting that it is what you do and that it works for you and you are doing so with your doctors approval, however I will never condone saying it is safe for some because of what I've witnessed and the very desperate nature of many sufferers.

Cat

Title: Re: DON'T MIX TRIPTANS!! It MAY KILL YOU!! (nt)
Post by brewcrew on Jan 23^rd, 2006, 12:39pm

Then I guess we will have to agree to disagree on what is, essentially, a semantic issue. I appreciate you wanting to protect those who may be temporarily not of sound mind and being driven by the need to eliminate their blinding pain. Yes, I have been there and never want to go back. Fortunately, I have found a way to keep my pain at "managable" levels. For that I am thankful.

Bill

Title: Re: DON'T MIX TRIPTANS!! It MAY KILL YOU!! (nt)
Post by catlind on Jan 23^rd, 2006, 12:50pm

Hopefully there will be a day when our pain is dealt with on a level far more effective than 'manageable'. And in a way that is safe for all who suffer.

That's a goal I hope we can agree on.

Cat

Title: Re: DON'T MIX TRIPTANS!! It MAY KILL YOU!! (nt)
Post by brewcrew on Jan 23^rd, 2006, 12:54pm

on 01/23/06 at 12:50:34, catlind wrote:

Hopefully there will be a day when our pain is dealt with on a level far more effective than 'manageable'. And in a way that is safe for all who suffer.

That's a goal I hope we can agree on.

Cat

Absolutely.

Title: Re: DON'T MIX TRIPTANS!! It MAY KILL YOU!! (nt)
Post by chewy on Jan 23^rd, 2006, 2:06pm

Quote:

Hopefully there will be a day when our pain is dealt with on a level far more effective than 'manageable'. And in a way that is safe for all who suffer.

In the mean time, advocxating dangerous methods will not help.

Title: Re: DON'T MIX TRIPTANS!! It MAY KILL YOU!! (nt)
Post by brewcrew on Jan 23^rd, 2006, 2:19pm

on 01/23/06 at 14:06:28, chewy wrote:

In the mean time, advocxating dangerous methods will not help.

Did you not read anything I wrote? I advocated NOTHING except checking with your doctor and your pharmacist first. Go back and read it - then decide whether or not you want to use the word "advocate."

Title: Re: DON'T MIX TRIPTANS!! It MAY KILL YOU!! (nt)
Post by Karla on Jan 23^rd, 2006, 2:32pm

I have seen 4 different neuro's. One specializes in ch at ha clinic. ALL said not to mix triptains within 24 hr of eachother because it can be fatal. I am healthy and have a good heart. I had 4 different GP's all tell me not to mix triptans. I have had 3 pharmacists tell me not to mix triptans within 24 hours of eachother. I read the insert that comes with the drugs from the pharmacuticle company that makes the drug. They say not to mix it within 24 hours with another abortive med triptan or ergotamine. I believe this poster that is recomending mixing them has just been lucky to be alive and his day will come. I strongly urge you to talk to your pharmacist, read up on the medicine your taking, and get a second opinion before it is to late for you.

Title: Re: DON'T MIX TRIPTANS!! It MAY KILL YOU!! (nt)
Post by brewcrew on Jan 23^rd, 2006, 2:47pm

on 01/23/06 at 14:32:08, Karla wrote:

Good God, doesn't anybody read the entire thread before posting anymore? I AM NOT RECOMMENDING MIXING TRIPTANS! Did you hear that? How about a little louder?

I AM NOT RECOMMENDING MIXING TRIPTANS!

I am simply saying that I DO mix them with the approval of my neuro. Many people do. I am NOT telling people to go out and do it. BIG DIFFERENCE!

Now - I am done posting on this thread because I feel as though I am banging my head against the wall. Go ahead and flame away.

Title: Re: DON'T MIX TRIPTANS!! It MAY KILL YOU!! (nt)
Post by chewy on Jan 23^rd, 2006, 4:43pm

Quote:

Many people do

Really? Who here disregards the warnings and mixes triptans anyway?

I'll start.

Not me!

Title: Re: DON'T MIX TRIPTANS!! It MAY KILL YOU!! (nt)
Post by gobby on Jan 24^th, 2006, 2:21am

Hey Brew...........

I've read the entire thread and I have to say I agree with you. For the MOST part it's NOT ok to mix triptans, but with a recomendation from a doctor that "knows what he or she's doing" it "MAY" be an acceptable course of action.

I think I got your point..............right?

:)

Title: Re: DON'T MIX TRIPTANS!! It MAY KILL YOU!! (nt)
Post by Mr. Happy on Jan 24^th, 2006, 2:23am

on 01/23/06 at 16:43:04, chewy wrote:

Really? Who here disregards the warnings and mixes triptans anyway?

Well.......pfshawwww.....I gotta admit, I'm guilty, and I'm still alive. I'll follow the party line statement, tho. The trick isn't about mixing triptans, it's about not needing them. Good Luck.

We'll all be at this for a while.
RJ