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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies >> TMJ, CH & TENS treatment
        
(Message started by: marlinsfan on Dec 20^th, 2005, 8:18pm)

Title: TMJ, CH & TENS treatment
Post by marlinsfan on Dec 20^th, 2005, 8:18pm

In continuing to speak with my neighbor dentist, he has been talking to an expert in TMJ, etc, and here is what he has to say:

Cluster headaches occur usually on one side of the head and are unbearably painful.They are usually classified as trigemino=vascular type headaches.The cause is believed to be unknown. The hypothalamus is involved. There are autonomic effects with principal involvement of the eyelid and the pupil and sleep apnea is predominant which is believed to be realated to disturbed sleep and the onset of the cluster headache.

. There is good evidence that the cause is a temporomandibular disorder in which there is compression of the mandibular condyle causing displacement of the temporal bone resulting in stimulation of the dura mater supplied by the trigeminal nerve on the side of compression.There is usually an accompanying subluxation of the atlanto-occipital joint.Thus two effective treatment modalities are Neuromuscular balancing of the condylar compression by TENS produced craniomandibular orthotic which may not always resolve the subluxed A/O joint requiring A/O or Nucca trained DC treatment. The strained dura mater of course causes the trigeminal vascular pain and the involvement of the hypothalmus. Norman Thomas DDS (Hons); MB(Intercalated B.Sc HonsAnatomy/Physiol) Ph.D (U.Bris); Certs. Oral Med and Pathology;FRCD. Professor Emeritus U of A ;Director NM Research LVIADS..

What do you think about treating our head with TENS?

Title: Re: TMJ, CH & TENS treatment
Post by Grandma_Sweet_Boy on Dec 20^th, 2005, 8:21pm

About as much as I'd think of wrapping a banana peel around my head or wearing a tin foil hat. ;)

Do you think you could stand a TENS hook up anywhere near your head whilst getting hit. I'd likely pitch it across the room.

Carol

Title: Re: TMJ, CH & TENS treatment
Post by Barry_T_Coles on Dec 20^th, 2005, 8:36pm

I use a TENS if I can pick the onslaught quick enough and get it on within thirty seconds; if you can’t hit it quick enough you’d do exactly as Carol says and fling it as far as possible.
Do I get relief YES but o2 is definitely my best.

Kind Regards
Barry

Title: Re: TMJ, CH & TENS treatment
Post by gobby on Dec 20^th, 2005, 10:49pm

Wow..........I understood about 6 of the words you used. I feel like Cid here...........Am I the only one who is kinda' lost and feeling like an idiot? Lord, I hope not. :o

Title: Re: TMJ, CH & TENS treatment
Post by Ueli on Dec 20^th, 2005, 11:26pm

There are people that suffer from TMJ, and a casual observer can confuse its pain with that from clusterheadaches. However, for the experts the only common thing in CH and TMJ is the pain in the head.

TMJ can be alleviated by a bite-plate, that prevents the patient from grinding his/her teeth and straining the temporomandibular joints. Some dentists with a pecuniary emphasis, instead of ethics, try to 'cure' TMJ surgically, and they have the same advantage as the septum-straighteners: afterwards it's hard to decide if the intervention was necessary or not.

BTW, The only 'cured' clusterhead Dannyboy could provide was cured by a bite-plate. ::)

Ueli [smiley=smokin.gif]

Title: Re: TMJ, CH & TENS treatment
Post by Mr. Happy on Dec 20^th, 2005, 11:41pm

TENS unit application (formerly known as Shock Therapy) would be a good try, but for the whole direct skin contact thing. Sure, it's no problem for the BHP's (http://mushys.com/rpj/bhp.html), but so Many of the others depend on Rogaine or Dye jobs for their daily composure..... Skull shaving for full electrode contact won't be high on their priority list. It's not like the point doesn't have merit, tho.

You go first.
RJ

Title: Re: TMJ, CH & TENS treatment
Post by r_headache on Dec 21^st, 2005, 2:47am

I hear you Gobby!!

Can we have that in plain english please. [smiley=huh.gif]

Rick

Title: Re: TMJ, CH & TENS treatment
Post by StressFree on Dec 21^st, 2005, 2:58pm

I'm not sure of any TMJ connection, but it's good to see some indepth look at nerves involved and an attempt to tie in all of the factors of cluster headaches. I was mis-diagnosed with TMJ as I'm sure many of us were. I did find that the TENS gave temporary relief from attacks. I would be headache free for several days after a 30 minute treatment. This was early on when getting hit only once a day with a bad KIP7 (9am like clockwork and chronic). These days I find using TENS at home sometimes reduces pain levels and will often abort an attack if caught early. Glad to hear I'm not the only one that it has helped Barry! I've posted deatailed descriptions of my TENS experimentation in threads early summer 05' if anyone is interested. Take care all, Rich

Title: Re: TMJ, CH & TENS treatment
Post by llreed on Dec 24^th, 2005, 12:58pm

Hello Newbie Here - not sure about the TENS but I do have CH & TMJ and the plate does relieve some of the jaw pain, with all the clinching I go through. I'm a bad grinder when I get to sleep - hince the plate. Glad to see people discuss all avenues of this pain - keep it up.
Sincerely - llreed

Title: Re: TMJ, CH & TENS treatment
Post by Pinkfloyd on Dec 24^th, 2005, 3:31pm

TMJ doesn't "cause" clusters although I assume it could trigger a few extra attacks.

Anyone considering a "bite plate" should check out this device.
Personally, I think "bite plates" per se, are pretty stupid. If you have a grinding problem.......you just grind on the plate. Its like, if your arms are tired from doing push ups on the floor, they're still going to get tired if you do push ups on a pillow.

This is quite different and I know many migrainers and TMJ people that have had great success with this, even after standard bite plates failed.

P.S. I agree with Ueli as usual...anyone that wants to come near you with a knife, shouldn't be allowed to treat dogs. IMHO.

Anyway....check out:
http://www.drjimboyd.com/

Bobw

Title: Re: TMJ, CH & TENS treatment
Post by StressFree on Jan 9^th, 2006, 1:25pm

I bumped this thread because I find it very interesting and have noticed some connection myself. Not so much that TMJ causes CH but, as PinkFloyd mentions, it may be an agrivating factor. The bite plate link in his post above is quite interesting. I hadn't seen this before, though I did have a plate once for the back teeth. This one is specific to slowing or preventing the grinding of your teeth and is placed on the front teeth. It may be worth a try if you get that kind of "tightness" in your jaw along with the temple/eye and side-off-head pain. Rich
Edited to add: earlier in thread I stated "not sure of connection". The connection I really noticed is that TENS has been helpful to me. I used to hate all of the doctors and dentists who misdiagnosed my cluster headaches and seemed to waste my time and money. I now see they were trying to help, though their first response should be "see a neurologist while we see if our treatment may help". The thread about the opthamologists not recognizing CH is a good one too. All of these other fields should be well educated in the area of Cluster Headache (and other headache variations) in order to give correct diagnosis! Sorry for extra long post - Rich

Title: Re: TMJ, CH & TENS treatment
Post by FramCire on Jan 14^th, 2006, 12:45am

I used to grind my teeth and such. I had a mouthguard at one point and now I have CH.

The other night I woke up with a horrible HA and nerve pain in my teeth and I swore I had jaw pain that reminded me of the jaw pain I had when I used to grind my teeth (hadn't had it in years).

Anyway, it would be interesting to see if there is a connection but using a TENS unit would scare the crap out of me. I used one on my neck and it was fine but my buddies used to joke about putting it on my head for kicks...... I didn't think it was funny and using during an attack doesn't seem funny to me now.

Title: Re: TMJ, CH & TENS treatment
Post by Kris_in_SJ on Jan 14^th, 2006, 7:54pm

I don't have TMJ, and I don't have sleep apnea, and I would never have the time or the wits about me to place a TENS unit on my head for a cluster! Like Carol said - wrapping a banana peel, etc. And I'm not willing to shave my head for electrode placement.

I had terrible long-term discomfort from a chronic hip bursitis and IT Band syndrome once. A TENS unti (worn all day) eliminated the need for drugs until I was through with PT and better.

A cluster attack for me ramps from a 0-10 within minutes. While the idea might be right, the logistics are hellish.

Kris

Title: Re: TMJ, CH & TENS treatment
Post by taraann on Jan 14^th, 2006, 8:01pm

First I have never been dx with TMJ or used a TENS. But I have grinded my teeth in my sleep since I was a kid (hubby wakes me up quite often to make me stop) some days I wake up with some pretty bad jaw/teeth pain. But for me it is still different and NO comparison to CH pain.

Title: Re: TMJ, CH & TENS treatment
Post by catlind on Jan 15^th, 2006, 10:58am

Well lets see, my brother has TMJ, he doesn't have CH. I have CH and didn't have TMJ when it started. After a jaw dislocation last Jan. (I was talking to RJ on the phone too much) I now am told I have TMJ. The onset was after CH onset and has no apparent connection.

I could believe the info more readily if all TMJ patients had CH and all CH patients had TMJ. Until then, I'll stick with the theory each case is individual with no common causality or trigger.

Cat

Title: Re: TMJ, CH & TENS treatment
Post by MJ on Jan 16^th, 2006, 10:58pm

Back in the 80s I used the tens unit for a while, was the most aggravating thing ever.
Had much better results with magnetic therapy (wich was none)

Title: Re: TMJ, CH & TENS treatment
Post by alienspacebabe on Jan 16^th, 2006, 11:11pm

As a bit of an expert on TMJ, just recovering from TMJ surgery, I can say that most of what Ueli says is correct. Most TMJ symptoms can be alleviated by a bite plate. In my case surgery was necessary, in 1982 and again a few weeks ago.

And, having both CH and TMJ, I can state with certainty that there is no link between TMJ and CH.

Title: Re: TMJ, CH & TENS treatment
Post by StressFree on Jan 17^th, 2006, 1:58pm

Hey there SpaceBabe,
I would guess from your experience you can state "with certainty" there is no connection in your case. I have never corresponded with DannyBoy but here is Ueli's quote regarding the only known "cured" clusterhead:
"The only 'cured' clusterhead Dannyboy could provide was cured by a bite-plate. "
I believe there are many factors, including broken hypothalamus, that work in conjunction to cause cluster headache. This is evident by the fact that so many of us are episodic, rather than all being chronic. Many have various apnea, allergy, sleep disorders, other headache variants, levels of stress, smoking, drinking, drug use, meds use, family history, etc. I'd guess the right combination for full up cluster headache syndrome can vary from one individual to another. One thing for sure, we are all looking forward to the day when they can nail it down and fix it! Rich