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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Medications, Treatments, Therapies >> RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
        
(Message started by: MJ on Nov 22^nd, 2005, 12:34pm)

Title: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Nov 22^nd, 2005, 12:34pm

Squanto was a native american trusted quide and interpreter for the europeans in the new land of america. He is reborn. Thanks for your posts Squanto.

I apologize for the length of this post in advance I had told some I would post it.

Ordered RC seeds last friday, came yesterday (monday) afternoon.

I have been in a nasty cycle now for only about 3 weeks I think.

For the last 10 years I have chosen to be unmedicated due to the fact that medications for the most part did nothing for my head and if anything made the pain of CH worse for me. Oxygen for me at any levels and using the proper mask style and flows has never helped in any way. The only symptom of oxygen for me was a tenfold increase in pain if thats possible.

I think its necessary to post about me a bit. So bear with me.
I have had variable episodic cluster headaches for a lot of years. In other words my cycles occur at no particular time and have lasted from four months to years.

While in a cycle the CH attacks occur from 8 to 12 times in a 24 hr. period. The attacks last up to 2 hours. The level of pain is allways at the high end of the scales. Cycle to cycle this has never changed.

Throughout my history of CH I have never found a medication of any kind that has been of true benefit to my cluster headaches. Except high dosage prednisone tapers above 120 mg. wich had only allowed me a few days off at times when I just couldnt take it anymore, but the CH allways returned.

For the last few cycles I have used a 12mg dose of ephedrine once a day in cycle to help me on the non attack side. This has helped to clear my head and keep me alert for the attacks to come and for daily living. Unfotunately the ephedrine has become unavailable due to controversy and some dangerous side effects.

Fast forward to now.

Yesterday upon receipt of the RC seeds from distributor,
I crushed 15 seeds with a pair of pliers and they then easily crumbled in my fingers. I put them to soak in 2 ounces of water for about 3 hours, the water had turned a brownish color and about 9:00 pm I drank the whole thing seeds and all. Taste was not bad at all.

I went about my business half expecting to see the walls start to melt. About 40 minutes in I felt a light tingle in my fingers and a slight flushing in my face. The feelings never went beyond that.

Around 11:00 I could tell a cluster was trying to break through as a very distinct pressure built in my head. No pain emerged..

12:30 I went to bed and fell asleep. Wich in itself was very exciting to me as many clusterheads know sleep is better than diamonds and gold. I had very little sleep in the past few days never more than an hour tops and maybe 2-3 hrs total.

1:30 am woke up and jumped out of bed with an instant k10. I assumed the cluster mode began to pace through the house and then 10 minutes later wondered why I was pacing, "the damn thing was gone". went back to bed.

3:00 am. Same thing again jumped out of bed thought so much for that treatment did some pushups and 10 minutes later Gone.

4:30 am Same again but just sat on the edge of bed a bit and back to sleep.

Slept then untill 8:30 am a 4 hr record for me. I had my very normal wake up, good morning K10 attack, downed some black coffee as allways began my cluster mode and 15 minutes later gone.

I had planned to take the morning off not knowing how I would feel from the seeds. I feel a very slight hangover effect but nothing like the effects of a 2 hr. attack.

11:00am I have not had an attack since 8:30 Abnormal for me. But I do once again feel the pressure in my head but no pain yet.

In a few days I will no wether or not to reccomend this treatment. At this moment in time I am truly amazed.

I dont know of any other treatment that has been so well researched and discussed as the hallucinogenic treatments for cluster HA by and for sufferers.

As I am sure like many of us, I feared that word hallucinogenic. Let me be one of many to say follow the plans laid out by clusterbusters and fear is not neccessary.

I did exceed their reccomended dosing of seeds. I was hoping to have a word with God but the seeds failed me in that aspect.

MJ

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by zanychef on Nov 22^nd, 2005, 12:41pm

nice to see some positive effects on the rc as i have considered using them keep us informed ;;D ;;D
i'd be very interested in the results
are you in touch with clusterbusters?
ian

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Nov 22^nd, 2005, 12:48pm

Ian, no I am not in touch with clusterbusters.

Will keep you posted though.

MJ

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by LeeS on Nov 22^nd, 2005, 1:41pm

Hope it works and lasts for you MJ.

Quote:

I crushed 15 seeds with a pair of pliers and they then easily crumbled in my fingers. I put them to soak in 2 ounces of water for about 3 hours, the water had turned a brownish color

For me this is unusual with the RC seeds. They tend to be very hard and hence difficult to crush without pinging them across the room. This may mean that they are less 'viable' than they should be - perhaps BikerBob could help out here?

Anyway, they seem to be doing the trick thus far. All the best with it and keep us posted.

-Lee

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Nov 22^nd, 2005, 3:06pm

Lee, I used a 12" industrial style vise grip/ channell lok type pliers with the sharp serrated teeth in the jaws. crushed no problem, one by one. They flattened like pancakes and I had to brush them out of the teeth

I couldnt catch them when I tried smacking them.

2:00 pm feel like I drank too much coffee. Only 2 cups all day.

edit time.

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by Squanto on Nov 22^nd, 2005, 3:14pm

Quote:

Squanto was a native american trusted quide and interpreter for the europeans in the new land of america. He is reborn. Thanks for your posts Squanto.

Wow! What a nice thing to say. I'm blushing.

MJ, I really hope that you get the best of all possible results and benefits from the RC seeds. It takes a both a leap of faith and significant pains in the head to step over the ledge and try these "alternatives", don't it?

Keep us posted. It helps a lot to know that there are others in the same boat.

Squanto :-[

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by vig on Nov 22^nd, 2005, 5:52pm

way cool.
keep up the good work
allayooz

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Nov 22^nd, 2005, 7:56pm

6:40 pm. not a single cluster headache has occured since this morning. Normally this would not be the case.

I think several times today the attacks have tried to come through. They manifest themselves like a pressure building. Around 4:00 I felt kind of light headed and was sort of buzzing all through my body for about an hour. then that went away. Dont know if that was a CH or was I just a little stoned.

I wonder if maybe I didnt over do the dosage a bit as 20 hours later I still feel a bit buzzed, more so than last night. licking lips etc.

Anybody have some input on that? Can the initial effect of the seeds really last that long?

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by BikerBob on Nov 22^nd, 2005, 9:58pm

on 11/22/05 at 19:56:21, MJ wrote:

No.

Considering the fact that you "crushed 15 seeds with a pair of pliers and they then easily crumbled in my fingers. I put them to soak in 2 ounces of water for about 3 hours" before ingesting the concoction...

And considering the fact that you "About 40 minutes in I felt a light tingle in my fingers and a slight flushing in my face. The feelings never went beyond that."

I don't believe that the psychedelic-related effects or the "buzz" could possibly last more than 6-8 hours.

Now...

Considering the fact that "At this moment in time I am truly amazed."

And considering the fact that "6:40 pm. not a single cluster headache has occured since this morning. Normally this would not be the case."

Do you think it's possible that the "feel a bit buzzed" that you're having now is a natural emotional high from being pain free all day for a change?

Relax, breathe, it's going to be OK.

BB

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Nov 22^nd, 2005, 10:50pm

BikerBob

I am in no way stressed and am indeed fairly relaxed. I am also very much pleased with this day.

No I dont think its due to a natural high. I dont quite understand why the very close to identical feeling or "buzz" still remains.

Perhaps it was a mechanism of sorts in my body that hasnt yet shut down from the previous weeks of pain. I sure dont know and I am not too upset about it.
But it certainly is a curious thing.

I did understand that 6-8 hours was the most likely time for the RC effect to last. Thus the reason I asked.

Two of you have mentioned the seeds (wich I got from Iamshaman). Is it possible the seeds themselves are somehow at fault. They were stated to be 100% viable.

I do not pretend to know any more than I have learned from reading the available information.

MJ

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by Pinkfloyd on Nov 23^rd, 2005, 2:14am

on 11/22/05 at 22:50:36, MJ wrote:

Is it possible the seeds themselves are somehow at fault. They were stated to be 100% viable.

MJ

At fault for what? The decrease in cluster activity? Probably.

Do you mean is the viability of the seeds in question and does that play a role in the "length" of any psychedelic effects?
No, the viability would not play a role in the length of the psychedelic effects, IMHO. Especially at such a low psychedelic dose.
The non-viability of some of the seeds "might" cause a decrease in the psychedelic response. It is possible that a non-viable (dead for all intents and purposes (won't grow)) seed will have little or no psychedelic effect. So, if they were not 100% viable, say only 12 of the 15 were viable, then it was like taking 12 seeds and not 15.

As to the effects you were experiencing some 20 hours later, such as light-headedness, this is most likely some of the autotomic responses that occur with cluster headaches. I have had this same sensation a couple of times while breaking a cycle.
There are often times a few of these autotomic signs of clusters that remain even though the pain response has not been triggered. Many people that begin the treatment will report still having a few remnants such as light-headedness, droopy eyelid, pupil contraction, tearing, nasal congestion, etc., but no pain or shortened attacks. These may come just when you would be expecting the cluster attack and last about as long. Instead of all the different symptoms lasting that hour or so, you may get a few tell tale signs that the cluster is trying to break through but doesn't. When the cycle ends, all these autotomic responses end also.

Good luck and thanks very much for the detailed report.
Bobw

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by Flash on Nov 23^rd, 2005, 8:37am

MJ,

The day after dosing with a hallucinogenic you may feel a little strange. It's like the come down period. And this applies with small doses. Normally you feel a little relaxed, perhaps a bit fuzzy or dopey, and occasionally you may feel a little dizziness.

But I agree with Bob, much of what you have described is actually caused by the CH trying and failing to break down the door. This can cause some peculiar sensations, inlcuding pressure, light headedness, an almost pleasant feeling like you normally experience at the end of a bad attack. Stuff like that.

The chances are that this activity will occur for 48 hours after the dose. At that point either the attacks will taper off, or ramp up again. If they ramp up again then consider a second dose. Other than that it's hard to provide direction. Some people find it best to dose agaun immediately, some wait 5 days, and some wait 7 days. We really don't know which is best.

Twice in that past almost 13 years I have dosed, experience a couple of days of relief/fluctuation, then have the headaches come back worse than ever for 4 days, then had them suddenly stop. But usually they just stop straight away or fade out after a couple of days.

So lets see how the next couple of days go, and based on that we'll each try and offer you an opinion. Most of which will be conflicting LOL!

The good news is that the seeds are doing something, and that is a VERY good sign.

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Nov 23^rd, 2005, 9:28am

Thank you much for your inputs. I appreciate and respect yours and all opinions.

Not to dwell on the buzz but the closest I can describe the lasting feeling I had was most like a high dosage of cold medicine had been taken.
Now as my head is still recovering from the last attack a bit of that feeling still remains

Now the sad part beginning early this morning. I resumed my normal routine.

went to sleep at around 12:30am

1:30 woken by full blown attack back to bed by 2:15am. 45 min

2:30 repeat k10 to bed by 3:30 1hr

4:00am. up like a bolt of lightning and I,m sure many know the feeling of the extreme attack untill 5:30 1.5 hr

6:00am. same attack to 7:30am. Violent is all I can say.

8:20 am feeling bruised but pretty good.

The initial results that allowed me a day off were certainly acceptable to me and the little bit of excess sleep I received the night before also helped.

I will redose this evening and see what happens at the same 15 seeds. Unless I here a sound reccomendation for a change.

Thanks

MJ

Title: e: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by vig on Nov 23^rd, 2005, 12:59pm

Here's a picture of a HBWR dose for me...

http://www.kdlltd.com/vig/hbwrScale.jpg

picture's dated Halloween 2005.
4 weekend doses of psilocybin and a final dose here:
13 minor hits, 3 mild hits; instead of the hundred or so in a typical Fall episode.
;)
thanks Pink and Flash

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by Beastfodder on Nov 23^rd, 2005, 7:39pm

MJ

I'm delighted to hear progress is being made long may it continue.

It's not so scary once you've taken the first step, much less so compared to alternative medications you can be subscribed. Not surprised you opted out of polypharmacy, some stuff I've been prescribed in the past such as carbazemine and pizotifen make you feel pretty ropey.

Using psilocybin I've had a fantastic cluster attack this year.

I'm touching wood as I type but 4 headaches none lasting over 40 mins-1 hour beat the hell out of the last year's 50 odd two and half hour jobs.

Two weeks since anything of note. I dosed before the cycle and three times as an abortive with 02, mostly sipping, with great effect on the headache - but not on my inner psyche and consciousness.

Only once was it gently nudged for a couple of hours - but the pain was sharpish at the time and the relief so worthwhile.

All the very best with the treatment

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Nov 23^rd, 2005, 8:38pm

Thanks Beast thats what I need to hear.

I'm feeling like my same old self CH all the damn time.

I'm running a CH log here as well sorry.

11:30 am 1.5 hrs attack I believe maybe for the first time it was down to a level k 8

2:00pm major attack for an hour

5:15 heavy shadows Around 6 had a hard hit driving had to pull over for about 20 minutes and attack lasted till I got home. another 30 minutes. Just kindof shadowing now.

I have another batch of RC seeds soaking.

Sure hope you all are right on this treatment. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by Jonny on Nov 23^rd, 2005, 9:11pm

on 11/23/05 at 20:38:11, MJ wrote:

I'm feeling like my same old self CH all the damn time.

Bummer, Dude!!

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by nani on Nov 23^rd, 2005, 9:29pm

Don't be discouraged, MJ. It's pretty normal to have an increase in activity in the first few post-dose days. Just keep track, and if it isn't getting better in a few more days, consider another (slightly bigger) dose. You always want to give it at least 5 days, preferably more, before you dose again.
pf wishes, nani

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Nov 23^rd, 2005, 11:01pm

Thanks Nani

Its only an increase in activity from yesterday. Was the same in days before first seeds dose.

Now that I had a taste of the potential of these silly little seeds and some wisdom from those guys above I cant wait 5 days. I am trying a second dose now at 48 hours since the last dose.

So far I am more encouraged, than discouraged.

Will see what happens.

MJ

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by Pinkfloyd on Nov 24^th, 2005, 12:53am

Good luck on this dose MJ.

I know the excitement and urge to use these methods sooner than the 5 days but really, there seem to be good reasons for waiting as long as possible. We obviously don't want to see anyone in pain any longer than need be and would have people dose within 24 hours if we thought it was the best way. There are times when it IS almost impossibe to wait 5 days just from the level and frequency of the pain and in those cases we try to stretch out the time between doses as much as possible each time...hoping for a longer time span between each subsiquent dose.

Hopefully this dose will show great improvement but if not, please don't be discouraged. Please try to determine if the side effects (psychedelic effects) are about the same, greater or less than the previous dose. This will help you/us determine future dose sizes based upon this time span.
Also, if another dose is needed, I would either double the number of seeds or better yet (I believe) would be to soak the seeds longer (12-24 hours) and in alcohol, as this form of extraction may prove more effective. Details of the differentces in extraction can be found in the LSA FAQ on the Clusterbusters website.

Best of luck and have a great Thanksgiving!!!
Bobw
P.S. Great shot Vig...wanna send it to me for the next webpage update?

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Nov 24^th, 2005, 1:19am

Thanks.

Now you tell me I could have doubled the seeds ;)

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by Flash on Nov 24^th, 2005, 5:06am

on 11/24/05 at 01:19:30, MJ wrote:

Thanks.

Now you tell me I could have doubled the seeds ;)

I suspect what Bob meant was EITHER double the dose OR soak them for alcohol in for 24 hours first. Don't worry - the seeds will neutralise the alcohol as far as any hits are concerned.

Personally my advice would be to soak 15 seeds in alcohol for 24 hours prior to dosing. This will properly extract all the LSA from the seeds, meaning you are more economical with the seeds and get max benefit from them.

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Nov 24^th, 2005, 9:54am

Thanks Flash.

Dosed with the fifteen seeds last night/ evening. again was about a 3 hour soak.

Immediate effects were pretty much the same as before a little tingle in the fingers and a slight flushing of the face.
Something I probably wouldnt notice at other times but I was paying close attention.

The most telling effect was that a shadow that had been nagging disapeared.

Dosed around 9:00 pm (my time)

To bed around 1:30 am

1:50 am, Up with a major cluster headache..
There was a difference in the pain in the fact that it was more focused and less spread out than normal. Not sure how else to desxcribe it. Maybe a cleaner pain without some of the cloudiness that sometimes accompanies it. But the intensity of pain was as strong as ever.

3:30 am. Back to bed and slept untill 7:30 am.

7:30 am. up with what I think was an attack trying to break through.

8:30 am. No pain Tired but feeling like I slept.

Good results as only one attack has occured through the night.

Hosting a Thanksgiving dinner today for a bunch of people, hoping it hangs in there all day.

MJ

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Nov 24^th, 2005, 10:11am

Flash / Pinkfloyd

My fear of alcohol at this time may be greater than any other. Alcohol is the very worse trigger for me. Even the thought anymore seems to be a trigger. Wine is the worst.

I think I may have to stick with water. I believe you but not that much.
How about grape juice any experience there?

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by Chillrmn1 on Nov 24^th, 2005, 11:04am

Then don't soak in alcohol........you don't need to be wondering about the alcohol if you fear it will trigger you. Hydrolyzing LSA from 4 HBWR seeds by soaking in water is what I give credit to for busting my 8.5 month cycle. Point being, be comfortable with your preparation.

Edit for spelling.

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by Flash on Nov 24^th, 2005, 7:41pm

Do you have access to an electric coffee grinder for crushing the seeds? Remember to soak them at least 24 hours beforehand.

For what it's worth alcohol was also a terrible trigger for me. One drink during an episode would lead to a terrible attack which usually ended with me coming round in a pitch black bathroom curled round the bottom of the bowl. Ugh! But I later used alcohol to verify that the hallucinogenics were acting on my CH. This was back in 1998. I waited until I entered an episode, then prepared the mushroom tea. Next in order to trigger a severe attack I drank a large measure of malt whisky (12 year old Laphroig, I remember this clearly it was a pivotal moment). About 15 minutes later a bad attack got underway, I left it 5mins to get well established then dosed with the shrooms tea (it was 12 fresh Liberty Cap that had been preserved in honey). 20 minutes later the attack abruptly disspated and terminated. I shadowed a little for the next 48 hours, then my episode ended 3 weeks premautrely (it was 1 week established and usually later 4 weeks).

Ever since then I have had no fear of dosing with alcohol during an episode... but everyone is different so perhaps wait until you succeed with the dosing first before trying any of the stunts LOL.

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Nov 24^th, 2005, 11:50pm

I know that bowl well. I spent a lot of time there when I took other prescribed meds as well. Too well to try the alcohol yet.
I still spend time there when my mind isnt clear enough for the attacks.
Once my comfort with the seeds is solid, Then I will probably do the same as you.
It will be the final proof if it works.

I have to say I am quite impressed so far with the minimal doses I have taken, as I said in my opening that nothing has ever done what these simple little seeds have done so far.
I had many years worth of past medications and changes that allows me to say that before I went without them.

I have had a few silent attacks throughout this day with running sinus, tearing, tight skin sensations, but little or no pain

I even took a nap around 8:00pm following a large afternoon meal that in itself should have created problems

8:20 pm. Of course awoke with an attack assumed the attack procedures and ya know once again it never went above maybe a k7.

I am fairly new at using the scales as I felt I never had a real use for them. For me it was allways beyond measuring by scales. I was able to talk, look and listen, Stay in the light and think damn this aint nothin. I still found it necessary to pace. Is that a kip 1 or 7. If I only improve to this point I will be pleased. I will go back and look at the cluster buster scale and maybe I can better relate.

9:10pm attack was over.

10:15pm and feeling pretty good.

I'm allmost ready to prepare a bowl of seeds for breakfast.

Of course I will wait a bit and see what tommorrow brings.

The buzz I mentioned the other day was also present for a while earlier today.

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Nov 26^th, 2005, 8:33am

Update.

I did not keep track of CH attacks yesterday, but I knew some serious shakeups in the actual attacks were occuring.

Had a few hits in afternoon but as the hit count went up the pain and duration increased as well.
By early evening the Clusters were allmost back to normal with one change I had never heard of nor experienced before. Never in my history of CH have I experienced a change in a CH attack until these recent days. I have had silent attacks many times however out of cycle.

At around 8:00 pm, the CH "partially" switched sides.
Very strange. I was feeling pain above my opposite left eye between the eye and eyebrow. eyelid was drooping. Yet the center point of pain still remained in my right temple. and my right eye seemed to have no symptoms. Something I would not have thought possible. But been there now and done that. Go figure. (Maybe that was a hallucination.) This lasted about an 1.5 hours.

Next attack was around 10:15pm It was instant and ugly and normal and I was prepared for a good fight.

Then I remembered I Had some seeds I put to soak at 4am that morning Decided that I wouldnt heed all the advice given.
Had increased the seeds to 30 and the soak was long enough I thought It cant hurt. I drank it again 50 hrs after last dose.

After about 20 minutes, what should have been a long attack, the attack virtually disappeared. No shit. I spent the next hour looking for it but couldnt find it.

I had a moment of laughter but be assured it wasnt from the seeds.

I then laid down and slept like a baby for 2 hours, got up looked for it some more and decided I might as well just go back to sleep. Got back up at 4:00 am still cant find it. I have been up since, alert and feeling good, paying close attention to my head just in case I miss something.

It just may be a good day for my CH will see what time brings.

7:30am

MJ

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Nov 26^th, 2005, 11:22am

I want to maybe disregard above post.

Just went through an hour of hell retraining that bastard dog to sit.

Amazing what 12 hours pain free can do to warp the mood.

MJ

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by cazman on Nov 26^th, 2005, 12:26pm

i can relate to the day after sesantions in the head it happened to me the first few times i dosed , i can also relate to the backlash attacks you talk about i had some nasty hits days after doseing and i wanted to give up thinking it wasnt working thanks to clusterbusters i stayed with it and the end result was a broken cycle nad alot of pf time might a fact its been almost 3months and other that a few minor snaps so im told they are called im good im happy im able to live.
the reality is and remember this things effect different people in different ways and always read up on something before you try it. pink and flash know what they are talking about and they have been godsends in helping me thru this.
nani i hope you fallow thru and get this right for you and anyone else that tries this stick with it be pacient and have faith.

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by Pinkfloyd on Nov 27^th, 2005, 12:44am

All I can tell you MJ, is just because oxygen hasn't worked for you in the past, has no relation to if it would work for you in conjunction with this treatment. Even people that have had less than excellent results, report that at least, their oxygen worked much better. If it's something you could get your hands on, I would certainly try it to see if you can spread out the time between doses.

Bobw
I envision one day opening up a Clusterbusters Free Clinic where people come in the day following their dose and are set up in a room with an oxygen tank, ice packs and showers, a Supermodel (male models would have to be in a separate wing), and a 5 day time lock on the door.
Beef sandwiches and a cup of yogurt would be slid under the door each day.

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Nov 27^th, 2005, 1:57am

Hey put me on the mailing list for the clinic. But I'd need 2 supermodels to keep from breaking free.
I Suppose it wouldnt be free then but if it helps am more than willing to pay.

I do still have an oxygen setup somewhere and welders tank of o2. I had tried it again last go around.

My last few hits were lighter than normal and of a shorter duration so I'll just deal with it a while longer.

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by Flash on Nov 27^th, 2005, 7:11am

See if you can tough out 5-7 days before your next dose, then soak them for 24 hours in water beforehand.

As I have related many times on this forum, a worst case scenario is that the attacks will get more frequent, longer duration, and more painful for 4-5 days after dosing, then suddenly fade out on days 6 and 7. This happened to my in 2003. I experienced the onset of an episode in February. A very small dose of shrooms, probably the equivalent of 20 RC seeds stopped it in it's tracks. I then has 6 weeks PF (drinking alcohol etc) before the episode mysteriously restarted in April. I dosed again, and screwed up by taking more than I was comfotable with. The episode got really bad for 5 days then suddenly abated. I haven't had another proper episode since then!!! My usual cycle was 6 month PF / 1 month CH.

So try and tough it out for 7 days if you can, then hit it with the full 30 seeds on a 24 hour soak... if it hasn't already died.

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Nov 27^th, 2005, 8:52am

Due to public opinion I will wait at the least the 5 days.

Thanks guys for your help and will repost at that time.

MJ

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by Beastfodder on Nov 29^th, 2005, 9:00am

MJ - Well we're waiting...

But it all sounds encouraging so far. Definitely think about the O2 with a good mask.

Also as an abortive - if you're clear of meds - sipping the mushroom tea has worked well for me. I guess it might be an idea to have some in the fridge/freezer to call on.

But the thing is you may not need to - I've had to bin my emergency dose after 4 weeks in the fridge it had grown a whole new generation of fungi.

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Nov 29^th, 2005, 11:58am

Beast.

I thought everyone had to be bored with this thread by now.

It,s only been 4 days. I better start them soaking.

HA has been up to a count of 10-12 last couple days but only about 35- 45 minutes ea. AAaand a way lower pain level maybe a k8 with hard pacing. Except for one quality 2 hr hit yestrday.
I also had another 3.5 hr strait sleep last night. May not seem like much but from 20 minutes or so max before thats like sleeping in.

Pretty cool to me.

Oxygen no go.

Thanks for waiting.

MJ

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by Sandy_C on Nov 29^th, 2005, 12:34pm

MJ

Thanks for starting this thread. You've given me a boatload of information on what I can expect using the seeds.

I just received my shipment of rc seeds from Iamshaman. Haven't dosed yet, mainly because, I'm not really "in cycle". But, I'm having light shadows, pressure, sagging eyebrow on my CH side, which leads me to believe a cycle may be just around the corner (during the holidays >:() If I am going into a cycle, it's way early - I usually have at least 1-1/2 year PF, then cycle anywhere from 8 wks to 5 months (longest cycle ever - ended this past July). I'm trying to figure out if I should go ahead and dose now, or wait until I'm sure I'm in cycle. Does dosing when not in cycle prevent the cycle from ever starting? If so, gotta find my crusher!

Please keep posting your diary of hits. I'm following it very closely and learning from it.

Sandy

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Nov 29^th, 2005, 9:43pm

Hi Sandy.

Thankyou.

This is a learning experience for me as well.
There does seem to be much experience that says taking the seeds as a preventative is highly beneficial.

I am not qualified to answer that question but I have talked with a few here who can. They will probably show up soon.

So anyways.

Today I actually had about 5 hours without a hit this afternoon. The first extended period since my last weekend post. 4 days ago.

At about 5:30 hit again on the road 45 min.

7pm an attack of short duration 30 min with a lingering shadow.

Have had fewer and fewer attacks on the extreme side.
Is this due to the seeds or just a fluke I dont know but I want to believe its the seeds. Last one was maybe a kip 7.

8:20 pm k8 to 9:10 pm

MJ

Edit; because I had a headache.

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by Pinkfloyd on Nov 29^th, 2005, 11:32pm

on 11/29/05 at 12:34:13, Sandy_C wrote:

I'm trying to figure out if I should go ahead and dose now, or wait until I'm sure I'm in cycle. Does dosing when not in cycle prevent the cycle from ever starting? If so, gotta find my crusher!

Please don't wait until you're in a full blown cycle before giving them a go. No need to suffer any more pain than necessary. It certainly sounds like a cycle is about to make a visit. We'd all like you to have a pain free Christmas, as I'm sure you'd like, if at all possible.

Also, if you're willing to submit some info to Dr. Sewell "before" you begin treatments, it would be appreciated.

His email addy is: asewell@mclean.harvard.edu

Any ???s just ask.

Bobw

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by Flash on Nov 30^th, 2005, 6:13am

on 11/29/05 at 21:43:19, MJ wrote:

Today I actually had about 5 hours without a hit this afternoon. The first extended period since my last weekend post. 4 days ago.

At about 5:30 hit again on the road 45 min.

7pm an attack of short duration 30 min with a lingering shadow.

Have had fewer and fewer attacks on the extreme side.
Is this due to the seeds or just a fluke I dont know but I want to believe its the seeds. Last one was maybe a kip 7.

8:20 pm k8 to 9:10 pm

MJ

Edit; because I had a headache.

MJ - Like I've been saying for years, for some reason the full benefits can take up to 7 days to kick in... but day 5 is the critical one. The first 4 days after a dose can actually see activity worsen, with day 3 being the worst. Day 4 is usually SLIGHTLY better. Day 5 you may still experience the post CH attacks hangover feeling (heavy shadowing) but hopefully very few, very mild, and very short lived attacks. Day 6 you feel almost normal, apart from a slight twinge here and there, and day 7 you are back to baseline. This is MY experience of commencing this treatment within a established episode.

Dosing in between seems to shake things up again and result in another 5-7 days to settle down.

So if this is day 5 then you should really be seeing very little activity, apart from the 'background radiation' - heavy shadowing. If this is day 6 then you should feel all but cured. If this not the case then yes, DEFINATELY redose. Not everyone agrees with me on this one, but all in, I've either avoided, prevented, or busted 22 of my own episodes to date with variations of this treatment. I've only experienced 1 full, and 2 partial episodes since Janurary 1993 AND I have the DIRECT experience of treating 7 of my own episodes with this at various stages of entrenchment (this is as opposed to prevention, and I've discovered that busting one episode always prevents the next one in my case).

Also worth pointing out is that there is a point where increasing the size of the dose becomes couter productive. BobW and another guy tried this a few years back, hitting Trip Level 5 every 5 days for many weeks on end, and although they experienced some patches of relief their episodes tended to drag on. The resulting concensus was that the ideal dose lies somewhere between Trip Level 0 and 2.

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Nov 30^th, 2005, 10:37am

Flash this is day 5. I had to really look at the post schedule to figure it out.
Dave Emond said in another thread that day and night cease to have any distinction. 5 days seems like just a few hours ago.

I will wait and see what this day brings before redosing.

Questions for anyone.

Will the soak solution prepared remain effective for days? will it become stronger or less?

If I do not use it today will it still be good in 3 or 4 days?

Understanding that everyone is different.
With RC seeds what is considered a proper dose and what doses seem to create trip levels beyond zero?

I had read somewhere that 60 RC seeds created interesting times. I have not seen any great hallucinogenic (as I understand it) effects whatsoever, up to 30 seeds. But I was sleeping at 30 and may have missed it.

Now.

12:30 to bed 12:35 Ch attack definately lower pain level.
back to bed at 1:45 approx 1hr

3:15 up again with maybe a k8 to bed by 4:00am 45minutes.

4:30 to 5:00am same.

5:45 up with same. up since.

7:00 am yep.

I am actually having a bit of difficulty determining when an attack is over.
The attacks are starting much as allways. Very sudden to a peak, but at some point the pain begins to gradually recede untill its gone to nothing.
Way back when, the pain was sudden and departed allmost as sudden.
So I wonder if I may be still having 1.5 hr attacks just able to ignore it in the end. Maybe was having 3 hr attacks prior to dosing but the pain was strong enough that any lessening of pain was bliss. Just my thoughts.

MJ

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by Flash on Nov 30^th, 2005, 6:17pm

Yeah that doesn't sound good. Go ahead and dose again is my advice. Stick with 30 seeds for now. At doses just below the trip threshold hallucinogenics make you dozy. Above the threshold they wake you up. You cannot sleep through a trip LOL. Simply not possible! Even a mild one! The solution is probably good for 48 hours, perhaps longer. Same as anything else you put in the fridge.

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by Bob P on Nov 30^th, 2005, 7:20pm

Hi Flash.

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Nov 30^th, 2005, 10:56pm

Thanks Flash.
Hard to find those answers.

Bottoms up.

12:30 ish a pretty good hit maybe an hour while in the office. Got the hell out of there in a hurry.

2:40 with a customer no less. came on strong and me trying to look interested. Cell rang and I weaseled my way outa there in a hurry too.

Stress is good.

4:30 heavy shadows the rest of this day tried to work kept spiking up. Stayed mostly outside in the cold seemed to help some.

9:30 shadows still here every now and then pain ramps up to maybe a 7 then back down.

I'm allways amazed I still have a job.
Cant bring myself to fire myself after I read that letter for employers..

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Dec 1^st, 2005, 12:48pm

Update.

took 30 RC seed solution last night around 10:00pm.

Shadows lifted and felt really pretty good and enjoyed the evening a bit.
Was not feeling stoned at all just felt healthy good.

12:52 excactly got a CH lower level maybe a k6.5 could not stay still could not sit.

1:30 to bed with a lingering shadow.

I awoke several times through the night with K6s but did not record times. Sat up said shit and damn and went back to sleep.

slept till 8:00am up with a level 7 for about 2 hrs.

11:00 am Stll shadowing feeling pretty cloudy in the head (hangover?)

My thoughts.
Considering I have very little experience with this.

The dose I took last night was probably the highest dose yet due to the length of the soak time.
I think I had better immediate results on the lower dose.

This supports some of what flash said.
Time will tell but I think the next dose will be back around 15 or 20 seeds if I dose again.

Statement also supports my past experience with ephedrine ( discovered through energy drinks, like red bull wich had ephedrine in it at the time.) where I found that only a low dosage had any value.
Higher dosages of ephedrine had no results for me. The stuff works in a similar way to LSA in the fact that it helped the mood much as amphetamines would.

"Ephedrine did not stop a CH attack it just kept the attacks cleaner and removed the shadows from my life" allowing a very rapid recovery from pain.

If my statements and Flashes prove out, perhaps their is a point of benefit that can be exceeded. In other words too much power in a wire is just as bad as too little on a light bulb.
It blows it out or burns too dim.

Hoping for the best.

MJ

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by joke ten dam on Dec 1^st, 2005, 9:42pm

[smiley=huh.gif] I just looked up Rivea corymbosa Seeds

Rivea corymbosa Seeds - Ololiuqui - VIABLE
View Rivea corymbosa Seeds - Ololiuqui - VIABLE in more detail >>

These rare seeds are related to Morning Glories, and come from Oaxaca, Mexico where they are cherished for both their history and the shamanic use. Shamans would ingest 20-30 seeds to communicate with the spirit world, although it's illegal to do so today in the United States and many parts of the world.

This prized plant provides only 2 seeds per flower, unlike Morning Glories that drop thousands of seeds per plant! But it's easy to grow, it's a fast-growing viney plant, and loves water and sunlight. It will quickly fill a windowsill.

THESE UNTREATED SEEDS ARE NOT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION
and cant help worry are these seeds you use treated?

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by BikerBob on Dec 1^st, 2005, 10:41pm

on 12/01/05 at 21:42:08, joke ten dam wrote:

You quoted that from IAmShaman.com

http://www.iamshaman.com/eshop/10Expand.asp?ProductUID=1849&ProductCode=RVC-25

There are two reasons why it says "THESE UNTREATED SEEDS ARE NOT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION".

1) Although it is legal to possess and sell Rivea corymbosa seeds, it is illegal to ingest them. They have to say "not for human consumption" to legally sell them.

2) They say "these untreated seeds" because many of the morning glory seed strains that you can buy at garden stores are "treated" with poison to make you sick if you ingest them.

They need to be untreated to ingest them.

BB

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by Mr. Happy on Dec 1^st, 2005, 11:17pm

on 12/01/05 at 22:41:39, BikerBob wrote:

"treated" with poison to make you sick if you ingest them.

I remember when they did that with airplane glue, or "model cement," as they called it back in the good old days. Ah well, all good things must come to an end.

What's "instant coffee" really made of?
RJ

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by joke ten dam on Dec 2^nd, 2005, 3:04am

BikerBob thank you for the info ;;D guess I am a bit naive on these sort of subjects. Anywhay ::)one learns from asking.

Joke

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Dec 2^nd, 2005, 4:24am

Joke yes those are the seeds. "Untreated".

Even though my last post as well as this one show some hints of negative feelings, I am still highly encouraged from the previous doses.

As stated before nothing in my memory has ever created a change in my Cluster headaches.

A ways back I had said if I can even improve to the point of a week ago I will be happy. Thats still true.

Today and yesterday now.

following my last post I had what I would classify beyond a shadow somewhere between a k5 and 6 for the entire day and night with occasional spikes to a K8 untill 10:30pm fully 24 hrs after dosing.

10:00pm after an all day thought pattern and some searching around the net and my experience with ephedrin, I took and crushed just 3 seeds without any soaking. I put them under my tonque for a bit and swallowed. (Then I drank some water to soak them).

10:30 (aprox). headache allmost totally dissapeared.
placebo effect? Maybe. Coincidence? Maybe.

3:00 am still no headache.
No sleep either but thats for non related reasons.

Will see what sleep brings.

MJ

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Dec 2^nd, 2005, 11:39am

Up at 6:15am with hi level attack.
2 previuosly powdered seeds under tongue. 15-20 minutes CH gone, back to sleep.

8:30am up because it was past time to get up.
No wake up CH like normal.

Full 8 hrs between last attacks. 10:30am still good.

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Dec 2^nd, 2005, 11:43pm

16 hrs and 7 minutes no pain.

1/2 hr ago slight twinges and 1 under the tongue.

10:42pm

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Dec 3^rd, 2005, 4:48pm

The time of no major pain had lasted untill 6:00 am this morning. A full 24 hours.

To bed around 2am.

6:00am an attack occured at level 9 lasted an hour.

7:00am back to bed and slept to 11:00am. A rare experience for me in or out of cycle. Sleeping that late is just not the way my clock works no matter how little sleep I get.

Again awoke "without" an immediate attack, I had a lot of sleep and was once again feeling hungover. I think this may be somewhat due to excessive sleep.

At 12:30 about I felt the CH returning and decided to ride this one out. The pain has not yet risen above a level 5-6 and yes it is with me as I type at 2:53pm. I find the computer distracting and soothing at this level. yet I am largely unable to concentrate on anything else.

note;
I am determining the pain levels from the kip scale wich I have printed out and it sits beside me at the desk along with cluster busters tracker point scale (CPT).

The CPT scale calculation had given me a conservative 100,000 points prior to the start of this trial with RC seeds. with an averaged 10 hits a day.
The points were at 5040 for the last 24 hours if I did it right.
This is one game I want to lose.

3:00pm

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by Flash on Dec 5^th, 2005, 9:23am

Someone PM'd me and asked me to post this on their behalf. I felt this was the most suitable thread in which to do so:

"Flash,
I can't post it here (spouse reasons) but you can post it for me if you want. I did 25 RC seeds soaked in wine 13 hours Thurdsday night. Would have waited longer but I was at the end of my rope, being hit every 2 hours day and night. Anyway stopped my hit in its tracks in a hour after I drank it, and have haven't had one hit since and that was friday morning. Have had shadows but NO HITS. I am going to redose again on friday, last time I tryed the seeds I waited too long to redose. Thanks for the tip about the wine and soaking, next time I will wait 24 hours since I won't be in such pain I hope anyway. I am sooo happy!!"

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Dec 5^th, 2005, 8:41pm

Flash thanks for posting that.

Update:

Since I last posted I had remained largely pain free. Untill this morning.
That was a total of 36 hours feeling like a regular person. I had allmost forgotten how bad the pain could be.

3:00am. I was awakened with an instant 12 the pain was strong enuff that when I jumped from the bed it knocked me right over on the floor. Very much like I was hit by a 2 ton wrecking ball. lasted again a full 1.5 hrs.

5:00am repeat of same only I was more ready and stayed upright it was one wobbly step forward and 2 steps knocked back. That lasted another 1.5 hrs

7:15 repeat of same.

9:00am. crushed and powdered 3 RC seeds again sublingual. I had to do something as I had a very busy day and no time to soak.
No further hard attacks occured since then.
10:05am walked into a 10:00am funeral service feeling a bit beat up and making sure the exits were available, a graveside burial, and a following reception untill 2:30pm. Realizing how minor my pains are in comparison to those who didnt make it.

About an hour after the seeds, that same buzzing feelings mentioned in my first posts at 15 seeds was there and has been off and on throughout the day.

7:30pm still good.

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by Flash on Dec 6^th, 2005, 5:20am

OK here's my suggestion. From what we have seen, very small doses do not interfere with the treatment, but can in some cases stop attacks. I think it might be worth trying sip dosing for the next few days, and continue with it in the evebnt that it stops the attacks. LSA is ideally suited to sip dosing because it is long acting.

Try taking 3 seeds worth first thing every morning last thing every night before bedtime. I'd recommend soaking ithe crushed seeds in a LITTLE wine for a day beforehand, and swallowing both the wine and the seeds remains in one gulp. Try this every day and see if it stops the attacks. So today make up the 2 batches for tomorrow and so forth.

In the event that this does keep you PF then try sticking to regular hours and regular meal times.

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Dec 6^th, 2005, 10:21am

Flash Thanks.

We are definately thinking on the same pages now. However this did not appear to work for Squanto at all.
I am still worried about the wine though.

I am thinking that the higher doses may be required initially and the low dose follow ups seem to be working as a sort of a maintenance dose for me. Like a timed release.
I am watching myself closely and have begun to think a high dose may be needed soon.

This morning was a repeat of the previous morning with one additional attack at 12:30 am for a total of 4
The intensity had dropped a little back to a 10.

I had taken again a 3 seed dose about 8:15am. Orally
Will try the soak method Flash suggests.

Last attack was at 6:30am.

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by Flash on Dec 6^th, 2005, 3:48pm

Just soak the seeds in water. I forgot there was an issue with the wine. Provided you also ingest the soaked crushed seeds then I see no problem.

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by Flash on Dec 6^th, 2005, 3:50pm

They key thing is to take this morning and night each day as opposed to reactively. That way perhaps the hits will be prevented altogether.

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Dec 8^th, 2005, 11:25am

The day of the 6th was a really bad dayand evening regarding clusters.

I started 4 soak solutions with 3 seeds each earlier that day.
at 11:00pm A major attack occured and the first solution was taken. it did not abort that hit but I had only one further hit k8 1.5 hours that night untill another at 4:30am when the second prep went down.
Then slept 4 hours and felt brand new.

No further hard hits throughout the day, minor low level hits occured.
Dosed again at 8:30pm and slept through an entire night woke without an attack this morning, dosed the final of four and still good.
More in preparation.

Flash I'm gonna add a DR. to your name.

Will see what time brings.

MJ

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by LeeS on Dec 8^th, 2005, 1:01pm

Great news MJ - I wish you all the best with it - and do keep us posted, very interesting indeed.

Dr. Flash eh? Sounds like a character out of one of the "Carry On" movies :o ;;D

-Lee

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by Beastfodder on Dec 9^th, 2005, 10:50am

Sounds really promising, great news.

Finger's crossed for you

All the best Andrew

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Dec 9^th, 2005, 11:23am

Thanks it is good news.

Update:

Dosed again with 3 seed mix at 11:00pm last night
I had my second full nights sleep. 6hrs I could get used to that.
I awoke at 7:00am with a CH k7 lasted all of 20 minutes.

10:15am feel great.

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by nani on Dec 9^th, 2005, 11:24am

Very kewl... :D
Sleep good.

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by Flash on Dec 10^th, 2005, 7:19am

OK keep up those morning and evening doses for a while and lets see what happens. If you get any breakthrough attacks from mid afternoon onwards then introduce a 3rd dose midway between the other two. From my experience the fewer attacks you get - the fewer attacks you get! If you see what I mean. Preventing attacks given your tender places time to heal, and that seems to reduce the sensitivity to CH.

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Dec 11^th, 2005, 3:54am

Good news first.

Have been dosing with a 3 seed mixture morning and night.

Only side effects I have noticed is several times during the last couple days I get a sudden and extreme exhaustion for a short period of time, can hardly keep my eyes open. I think this is happening at times when a CH may have occured as it passes in a short time.

since last post
On the 9th one low level hit k6 at around 4pm 20 minutes.
Another full nights sleep followed. No wakeups

On 10th one hit half hour after wakeup again k7 1/2 hr. One hit hardly worth mentioning at around 4pm k5 15 minutes. Not sure of the full nights sleep yet.

Now the potential bad news.

On 11th we will have to see because I have run out of the freakin seeds. Still pain free.

I am re-ordering enough to plant a forest. And if that doesnt work I might move to the hills of Mexico where I know they grow.

MJ

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Dec 11^th, 2005, 2:55pm

wake up CH at 8:00am K7 1 hr.
general type headache slowly building since around 11:00am now 1:45pm

A link I found on erowid. its a long read but of interest to me. Scroll down to ololioqui. (Rivea Corymbosa seeds)

http://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/references/other/1971_hofmann_bulletin-narcotics.shtml

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by Pinkfloyd on Dec 11^th, 2005, 3:25pm

on 12/11/05 at 03:54:46, MJ wrote:

Only side effects I have noticed is several times during the last couple days I get a sudden and extreme exhaustion for a short period of time, can hardly keep my eyes open. I think this is happening at times when a CH may have occured as it passes in a short time.
MJ

This extreme exhaustion, for me, has always been a precursor
of an attack within 30 minutes or so. Comes over me like a wave and could put me to sleep within minutes if I allowed it to do so.

I went through this a few weeks ago. Just the exhaustion wave, for about a week. Once or twice a day. Zero other symptoms of an attack or cycle.
I was due for a cycle the end of November.
(as that is always when my cycles begin. It ironically was always right around the day JFK was shot in the head. :-/

I took my maintenance dose the first week of November. No cycle this year. Maybe they'll find out who was on the grassy knoll next!!

MJ, I think the "silent sleepies" were a good sign. Carry on!

Bobw

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Dec 11^th, 2005, 3:32pm

I have noticed this too over the years. Never really paid too much attention though untill this year.

"Silent sleepies"
the link I just posted also mentions them from 70 years ago.

allbeit in a different light.

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by Chillrmn1 on Dec 12^th, 2005, 6:30am

on 12/11/05 at 03:54:46, MJ wrote:

I'm glad this was brought up. I experience this too both in and out of cycle. Never associated this with CH since it happens out of cycle. Now I know why this happens to me.

Thanx

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by cmoore on Dec 12^th, 2005, 3:45pm

hello everyone.

flash / mj - your posts here have been valuable to me.

I ordered some 25 RC seeds from iamshaman. The seeds should arrive on thursday or friday and I plan on dosing as soon as I get them. My college finals will be over thursday and the timing seems perfect.

I have recently been getting hit about 45 minutes after waking up and at around 11:00 or 12:00 at night, not having gone to sleep yet.

I was having success with kudzu, and it seems to have just stopped working. I have been aborting my morning hits with running in the cold and red bull. I plan on running to my final wed. morning and thursday morning and slamming a red bull when I get there, hopefully this keeps the beast at bay.

Anyway, the point I am getting at...

I have read all the available information from clusterbusters about dosing with RC Seeds, but I do not exactly want to go it alone. I was thinking that Flash could tell me exactly what to do with the seeds and I will do it. I have aborted cycles in the past with shrooms and used a relatively low dose, and was planning on following the clusterbusters recommendation of 4 - 8 seeds for my first dose.

Questions/concerns:
I saw something about a coffee grinder ealier, should i use that to grind the seeds? Will there be some part of the seed I should not ingest? If i begin to not like the feeling of the LSA and get something along the lines of panic/anxiety attack, would a xanex be good to calm me down, or would it not be a good chemical mix? Should I saok the crushed seeds in wine? how long?

Also, I am curious if the person that privately wrote to you about soaking 25 seeds in wine and aborting a cycle with it had any substantial tripping affects.

At any rate, I am open to being a guinea pig as soon as my finals are over. I guess this will benefit both me and everyone else because I will (fingers crossed) end up pain free and you all will be able to gather that much more date on RC Seeds.

Thanks,
Chris

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Dec 13^th, 2005, 1:46am

cmoore - what you read here is my only experience with RC seeds so I really cant offer too much advice.
One thing I would suggest if your anxious about them, Is that you take the seeds just before you go to bed and there is absolutely no point in testing drug interactions if you dont have to.. I was able to sleep with them.
Some of the effects I mention were largely noticed because I was looking very hard for them. Just keep a record and let someone know in the possible event a strange reaction occurs.
Coffee grinder may work well but I am still just cracking the shells with the big pliers and pulverising them before soaking. Then drinking seeds and all after soaking. Good luck.

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Dec 13^th, 2005, 2:58am

One thing I am sure of is that my cycle was not just ending in my last few posts.

Update:
Since I ran out of the seeds the headaches have gradually returned to allmost full intensity, frequency and duration.

12/11 last post, the low grade headache lasted most of the day untill around 5pm when a full blown k8 occured for an hour.

12/12
2:30am 30 minutes k7
4:00am same 30 minutes back to bed.
5:30am getting back to it. K9 1 hour.
7:00am K9 1.5 hour and they have remained this way.
A nice clean intense CH. Sounds strange but I dont know how else to describe it. The attacks come and you use every method you know to fight it then they are gone. Its very incredibly intensive pain but not clouded. Maybe its just my experience. Wich I have some. Without medications this is what I usually experience only a touch more intense. I know whats coming and my mind somehow prepares for it.
9:00am same.
11:00am same.
1:00pm same.
3:15pm same.
7:00pm K7-8 1 hour following a meal. The lower level attacks, I find are maybe harder to deal with because I cant reach the required concentration levels to get through them. They seem to last forever.
1:25am no further attacks but I can feel them waiting in the background for me to close my eyes.
Only 9 hits this day. but I had some good quality sleep in the prior days. That helps immensely. Plus I had read Dave Emonds thread earlier and I am thankfull that I do get a rest in between.

MJ

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by Flash on Dec 13^th, 2005, 5:07am

This is very useful data you're getting. It shows you pre-seeds, on-seeds, and post-seeds, which equates to full on CH, greatly diminished CH tending towards pain free, and back to full on CH. It will be interesting to see what happens once the new batch of seeds arrive.

Hang in there!

Flash

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by imnotbub on Dec 14^th, 2005, 11:35am

Has anyone actualy tried to grow the plants themselves, and if so, did they mature to the point of seed production?

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Dec 14^th, 2005, 4:28pm

Update.

Since last post.
The CH attacks had increased to the point that I couldnt hardly tell when one attack stopped and another started. At that point keeping a record was not in the program
Sleep had deteriorated to none. Fear of sleep was at its height.
Untill yesterday around 2:00pm
The attacks let up a while and I slept allmost an hour. Only to be awakened by an attack for another hour.
By 4 or 5pm I was doing pretty good with ocasional twinges untill about 1:30 am.
I slept upright when I could and tried to go to bed about 6:00am that lasted for an entire 5 minutes.

Since around 10:00am no further hard attacks have occured.

Of course I am wondering if what pinkfloyd and Flash and others have said about things getting worse is relevant now. It has been 4 days since my last dose and by the time I finnish preparing the seeds it will have been longer.

Will see what time brings.

Now 3:00 pm and I have recieved the additional seeds from IamShaman in the mail. delivery time 2 days standard mail. Due to a question I had for them and their integrity. they included an extra hundred seed pak. 300 seeds total. I suspect I will have some for later treatments.

The entire experiment up to this point has taken just 100 hundred seeds for a total cost of $14.99 with $4.99 in shipping costs. Compare that to just one shot of imitrex or any other prescribed med and one visit to the doctor.

Wishing the best

MJ

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Dec 15^th, 2005, 12:03pm

Last night around 10:30 a lower level ch occurred.

I had started 30 seeds to soak earlier 3:00pm along with two 3 seed mixtures and no longer wanted to wait. So at 11:30 I dosed again.

I felt a slight stoning effect as well as a different kind of real headache.. I went for a meandering walk in the cold and snow later and rather enjoyed it. I live in very rural country, listened to the coyotes and watched the deer graze in the fields under perfect moonlight.

Went to bed around 3:00am I awoke a few times with a very low level CH, picked my head off the pillow said HMMM and went back to sleep. I awoke at 6:30 feeling pretty good. shortly after awakening maybe a level 5 ch. took one of the 3 seed doses and ok.

Now 10:30 am feel ok maybe a little hangover feeling, then again maybe more due to lack of sleep.

If any changes I will post them. As I sit here my nose is starting to close up and my eye is feeling very dry not teary with only a twinge in my head.
It is my intention to continue the method of sip dosing morning and night for at least 5 days and then see what time will bring.

MJ

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by Flash on Dec 16^th, 2005, 4:57am

What you have reported with the 30 seed dose sounds like a threshold effect. In very small doses hallucinogenics produce this warm sleepy hypnotic effect, as if you'd taken a light sedative. Beyond that they really start to wake you up. It wopuld be interestimg to see how many seeds it takes to do that, how long a soak, and whether soaking in water or alcohol works better. Going by what you're feeding back, I think somewhere between 3-10 seeds would be useable as a sip dose, so you have some scope to increase the size of those if required.

With shrooms I'd tend to go with between 1/8thg.d.c. and 1/4g.d.c. as a sip dose. It sounds like 30 seeds equates to between 3-6LCs, a dose that prodces similar threshold effects. But we don't have a lot to go on yet!

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Dec 16^th, 2005, 6:29pm

Flash- thanks for sticking by me your commentary and analysis is extremely beneficial and sincerely appreciated.

Update:
still on the 3 RC seed dose morning and night of wich I consumed 4. Man it feels like I've been without a real attack forever. Reality 2 days.
I have not had one major CH since the 30 seed dose.
When I reread some of this thread it blows me away that things can change this fast.

The CH is still there I know, as symptoms still exist. The eye still has isssues time to time, low level CH occurs in am wakeup and a couple times today with short duration, The exhaustion still comes but at less frequency, the undescribable feeling we all know that an attack is imminent but doesnt come.
some buzzing feelings throughout the day. the silent attacks are noticeably "more" frequent.
Strangely absent is the feelings I usually get in my neck where I like to say my blood hurts.

Some side effects; (and the reason I posted today)
A heaviness across my brow not a headache per say just a line of heaviness above both eyes fairly often.
A possible reaction that I find hard to describe is a consistent ache along my sternum in the middle of my chest, my wife (a nurse) thinks it may be a bronchial spasm sort of thing. yet lungs as a whole not affected.

Back to work 95% today, finding out how badly I have been ignoring things while muddling through the past weeks. Provided relief continues wont be long at all to be back on top of it.

MJ

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Dec 20^th, 2005, 12:23pm

Update;

I continued the 3 seed dose through sunday the 18th by this time the attacks had continued at 3 or 4 hits per day. by friday and saturday the scale levels had begun to increase to k7 but remaining of shorter duration (1/2 hr) and frequency. This while continuing the low doses.

I felt that a larger dose may have been needed so I had started 3 soaks on the previous day. 1 at 30 seeds, 1 at 15 and 1 at 5seeds. the variations were due to I was going to dose depending on how I felt the next day.

Sunday awoke with a hard hit k8 and decided to wait a bit before dosing. Only one more occured late morning. at 2pm another hit.

I thought this was starting to be ridiculous again as I had 5 fairly good days and didnt want bad days.

At 2pm I took the 30 seed dose. Dont ask why but 10 minutes later I took the 25 seed dose and 2 minutes later said what the hell and took the 5 seed dose. Total dose was 50 seeds soaked about 28 hours. I have not dosed with seeds since.

I may have gotten a little stoned. I didnt think it was bad but my wife says I was pretty spaced out.
Felt a speedy effect, couldnt be still hands and legs in constant fidgeting motion. No hallucinations while awake, but I recall some vivid dreaming after going to sleep that night around 1 am.
Monday morning a lot of the higher dose effects were still there after a 6am wakeup. I felt really good.
Monday the 19th felt wonderfull all day and evening. By midnight to bed exhausted.
Today woke with a k9 for about 40 minutes at 6:45am. No further attacks since, now 11am. However have that feeling of CH soon to come.

Now I am not sure how to proceed, do I risk a week of terrible pain with no dosing or do I continue with low doses, 3 seeds, untill cycle is broken or will cycle continue forever because of continued seed usage or do I try an even higher dose to give it a real kick.
Such choices to make and seeking input.

I am leaning towards the maintenance doses. I will wait out this day and see what time brings.

MJ

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by Flash on Dec 20^th, 2005, 12:48pm

Perhaps consider increasing the daily doses to 10 seeds 3x per day, and see how that goes for the rest of the week.

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by nani on Dec 20^th, 2005, 6:19pm

I feel like I have to interject something here, if I may.
MJ, whenever I dose, I experience an increase in CH activity for a few days. Then, generally it settles down to almost 100% PF. Some folks don't experience the increase for a few days post dose. Is it possible that continuing to dose in this way is actually prolonging the CHs? I wonder if it might be prudent to wait a few days and see if things improve. The large dose on Sunday might just be a "cycle buster".
Just my thoughts, not meant to be interpreted as actual advice. :)
PF wishes, nani

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by Pinkfloyd on Dec 20^th, 2005, 6:32pm

Please consider....taking a break altogether, for 5 days!!!

Excuse me for getting a bit grouchy but....
The reason Clusterbusters has spent thousands of hours collecting data and information is to try to come up with the best and safest treatment plan. It seems some people are beginning to eat these things like candy and then come here to ask what to do next. Then, just because you didn't want to wait to follow the advice, you decide to do three days worth all at once?

Well, I didn't take your advice so would you give me some more please??? :-/

Clusterbusters still advocates beginning around 4 seeds. FOUR.
WE still advocate waiting 5 days between doses. Even if the dose was 4 seeds.
WE still advocate not trying the SPUT method (using LOW doses every day) unless you've gone through several of the 5 day doses and haven't made progress.
We still advocate the theory that LESS is MORE.

Just because these seeds are small, does not mean the amount of active ingredients is small. In relation to a pill containing say, oxycodone, just consider the fact that these seeds are small because they don't have a lot of filler added. If these seeds were the size of a multivitamin, would you do 50 of them if 2 didn't make you feel better????? If the active ingredients in these seeds were put into a pill form by Glaxo, they might be the size of an aspirin.

When we give advice to people about to try psilocybin, we are basing our opinions on reports from over 400 people that have tried them. When we give advice on using the seeds, we are basing that advice on reports from 30-40 people that have tried the seeds, plus the information from the 400 psilocybin users.

Please remember, we are offering this advice because we care about you (collectively) and want to help end your cluster cycle. We are offering what we feel is the best advice that will give you the best chance of success, plus being safe about it.
If we thought people could end their cycles in an hour by eating 100 seeds and it was perfectly safe to do so, we'd tell you. We don't believe that. We believe that 10 or 15 days will most likely be the best this can offer. Maybe in 2 years we'll have a better way, right now we don't.

If this treatment is going to run into trouble that will slow down the progress and give fodder to all the detractors, it is going to come from someone thinking that a cup of tea made from 200 seeds is 100 times better than a cup of tea made with 2 seeds.

This isn't just directed only towards you MJ, it's just my way of telling everyone that is considering this, to please go slow and please give some thought to the data and suggestions that have been formulated specifically to help you.
I realize you may have gotten some varied advice here. People are tossing out ideas. Before you choose one, or add a few together on your own, please confirm the info by telling us "this is what I plan to do"
If someone happens to post at 4 am that you should use 30-40 seeds and it flies in the face of other suggestions or what you've read on the website, ask why.

Bobw

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Dec 20^th, 2005, 8:00pm

Pinkfloyd, Nani, Flash

Thankyou.

BobW
I truly hope that everyone understands that what I do with the seeds is entirely what I do on my own and not at all what you and clusterbusters reccomend. Your combined experiences trumps by leaps and bounds the little experience I have. Your experiences are what giudes me all the same and should be what guides others as well..
I ultimately base all my methods on my own silly ways. I am sure many who read this think I may be a bubble off and I wont deny it.
I am simply looking for what works for me and ultimately your methods may prove to be the only way.

The likliehood that I would take 30 seeds every day is very slim to none. I can verify the less is more idea.. But in the event that continual CH returns non stop I would dose again on a daily basis with the minimal doses of 3 seeds, (4and 5 made no difference) as I found them to be most effective to a very large extent.

I will continue to hold off on further use untill I can find a reason not to.

No seeds yet today with just a couple additional CH hits.

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by pam s on Dec 22^nd, 2005, 12:07am

on 12/20/05 at 18:32:12, Pinkfloyd wrote:

Clusterbusters still advocates beginning around 4 seeds. FOUR.

Four? RC? I had it in my head that it was 5 HBWR or about 20 RC. But it's four, huh?

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by Pinkfloyd on Dec 22^nd, 2005, 1:57am

on 12/20/05 at 20:00:07, MJ wrote:

I ultimately base all my methods on my own silly ways. I am sure many who read this think I may be a bubble off and I wont deny it.

MJ,
I understand, and thank you for taking my comments well.
The problems are many (more of which I will try to explain in my response to Pam, below) when discussing any treatment in a medium such as this.
One person's "silly ways" may turn out to be the next person's serious medical crisis.
As people start posting the numbers of seeds they use, numbers can become confusing. People don't always follow each post so when they see someone have success with say 30, or 40 or 50 seeds, they might not realize that one, this number of seeds was someone's "silly way" or that they had started at only 6 seeds and worked their way up to 30 after not having any adverse effects at each increase.
Some people might read that MJ (as an example) had success after 3 doses of 40 seeds, and had no adverse effects, and decide they wanted to try and break the cycle in two doses, and up it to 50 seeds on the first go round.

The strength of doses can depend on many things. The strength of the seeds used (since they aren't all necessarily exactly the same from seed to seed. Mother Nature isn't always as precise as Glaxo).
The other meds that people might be taking. How sensitive people are to these compounds. Some people report feeling some effects with 6 RC seeds. Others feel nothing with 20. It would (could) be a problem for the person that felt something with 6, had they started with 20, or 30.
Just like with Squanto, you saw (we all saw) that he had very high effect levels with just 1/2 a gram of dried shrooms. Higher than most people get from 4 times that amount. The same thing is not only possible, but is true, with the LSA seeds.

As I said, I wasn't singling you out. I thought it was important to bring up some of these issues.

I think it is VERY important to do this as safely as possible. One big reason I feel this treatment method (psychedelics) is so important to continuing to research and offer as an alternative, is because I feel it is safer than many of the drugs we use day in and day out for years. If we begin removing some of the safety factors...it will not only lose some of these benefits, but someone will get hurt.

IMHO, if someone has been waiting 5,10,15,25 years to find something effective and safe, adding a couple extra weeks while titrating the dose for safety reasons, I think it's well worth the wait. Even at that, as we've discussed, low doses do work for many people and are even better for some people than larger doses. I think it is wise for EVERYONE to find the lowest possible dose that will work for them. This is best done by starting out low and increasing only if need be.

I realize some people are much less apprehensive about using psychedelics. I don't believe that is a good (or beneficial) reason to use larger doses in the beginning.

good luck and thanks for letting me use you as a sounding board. :)

Bobw

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by Pinkfloyd on Dec 22^nd, 2005, 2:08am

on 12/22/05 at 00:07:01, pam s wrote:

Four? RC? I had it in my head that it was 5 HBWR or about 20 RC. But it's four, huh?

well, I was going to save some comments for you but once I get going....you know me. I;m sure I have a few words left in me LOL.

It is about a 4 to 1 ratio. We do believe that 1HBWR and 4 RC are low doses. It also is beginning to look like 5/20 might be where a good percentage of people end up. But, reference above, people have good results with smaller doses.

The website still has a starting dose of about 4 RC seeds. We dont have enough information yet to make me comfortable in rasing that number and even if the safety concerns were removed to allow for us to raise that number, we still have the fact that it may only take 4 seeds to work.

Most of the people you have read that are using 20 seeds, did start at the lower numbers and worked their way up as they felt they could. We have had very few reports of adverse effects (people complaining that they wish they'd used fewer) This is partly because some people haven't needed to get up to 20 seeds. For these people, had they started at 20, I'm sure we would have had a few more adverse reports.

Be well Pam,
Bobw
BTW, I like your avatar! ;-)

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Dec 22^nd, 2005, 2:30am

Understood perfectly Bob
We all need a voice of reason and I am happy to be used as a sounding board.

I see some of what you say on another thread in this section.

MJ

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by Wendy on Dec 22^nd, 2005, 10:17am

That was probably more directed at me, but I can take it ;)
We are talking and learning back and forth and thats what this is all about? Soooo if Bob wants a me, he can come and get me ;) ;)

Good Luck MJ and everyone here and Merry
Christmas ;;D

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by pam s on Dec 23^rd, 2005, 11:15pm

on 12/22/05 at 02:08:48, Pinkfloyd wrote:

The website still has a starting dose of about 4 RC seeds. We dont have enough information yet to make me comfortable in rasing that number and even if the safety concerns were removed to allow for us to raise that number, we still have the fact that it may only take 4 seeds to work.

The website currently states 4-8 seeds as a starting point. I know we don't have that much data yet, but I hope we can get to where we know something about the probablility that this treatment will work at x dosage. ( Like, if it may on average work fine at 4 but it's more likely to work at 12....I'd be willing to roll the dice, so stark is my terror of chs.) Think I might look into this. I looove making bar graphs.

Quote:

Most of the people you have read that are using 20 seeds, did start at the lower numbers and worked their way up as they felt they could. We have had very few reports of adverse effects (people complaining that they wish they'd used fewer) This is partly because some people haven't needed to get up to 20 seeds. For these people, had they started at 20, I'm sure we would have had a few more adverse reports.

Are we talking mainly 'unexpectedly high level trip' potential adverse reports at higher doses?

Quote:

Be well Pam,
Bobw
BTW, I like your avatar! ;-)

It's a cleverly disguised subliminal message. :-)

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Dec 24^th, 2005, 10:30am

on 12/23/05 at 23:15:06, pam s wrote:

Think I might look into this. I looove making bar graphs.

Pam s

heres a possible bar graph for you.
This thread/experiment has been going on long enough now that I am starting to lose mental track of whats been working for me. If I could remain concentrated and pain free, maybe I could make some real sense out of it.

Wendy knows I was not referring to her. She,s a big help.

Update:
following sunday dose. No specific times were recorded.

Monday was a good day.

Tuesday, wake up CH again lower level short duration.
A few light hits during the day.
By bedtime the Ch was becoming more prominent.
Multiple hits through the night all of shorter 1/2 hour duration k7s.

wednesday, full speed ahead. Regular and constant CH.
I cheated on wednesday night and tried a low level 3 seed dose and it made no difference at that time, again tried at 6:00am with no results. I suspect this was due to the larger dose had allready left my system.
estimate 20 minutes total sleep wed. night and thurs morning.

Thursday, really sucked. CH k9s 1hour each with 1/2 hr breaks all morning and day.

Thursday night dosed with 30 seeds again around 10pm. Slept like a baby through the night. Had no wakeup morning hit at all.

Friday, following a real sleep I had another pain free day. A little different in the fact that not even a slight shadow all day. Though I felt my nose close up for a little while about every hour.
I had decided to continue following thursday dose with a maintenance 4 seed dose morning and night.
Slept through another whole night with no CH wakeups at all.

Saturday 6am, woke up alert. After 1 hour a k7 for 15 minutes occured.
9:20am feeling good. Time to go christmas shopping :)

Plan on continuing and adjusting maintenance doses for a while. at least through the holiday.

Happy holiday to all.

MJ

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by pam s on Dec 24^th, 2005, 4:59pm

MJ, I really am going through the "seed stories" and recording the number of seeds and assigning my own subjective effectiveness number as to how effective they were, 0-3. Easier than it sounds b/c people don't say how many they took, or which kind they were, or don't give enough follow-up.

Right now I'd give your 20 seed hit a 3 if it keeps up. I'd have to go back through your posts and see what happened at different dosages.

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Dec 30^th, 2005, 1:04pm

Update 12/30/2005:

following larger dose on 12/22.

I continued a maintenance dose of 4-5 RC seeds in the am following wakeup attacks. 6-8 RC seeds 1/2 hour before bed depending on how I felt. I decided 3 may not be enough. Why, dont know but took flashes reccomendation to some extent.

I initially took seeds in a soak solution for 2 days then forgot to prepare solutions in advance.

I then took the seeds powdered sublinqual in the mouth and held as long as possible untill disolved for the following days untill now.

I think the sublinqual method may have even worked better for the maintenance doses much like a timed release. I wouldnt want to stick my seeds in my mouth without soaking for the initial dose.

By 12/26 I was being hit with regularity at aprox. 3am with k7 and at 6am with same I would go back to sleep untill 7:30am and awake to be hit shortly "after" wakeup. Most attacks were of short duration 30 minutes or less with an occasional (2 or 3) k9 for an hour.

12/29 Attacks were by now staying very regular with timing and duration. 3 to 4 hits in a 24 hour period.

Side affect;
I found myself falling asleep allmost immediately whenever I sat down without stimulation. I am sure that was due to the seeds after taking for 7 days straight.

12/29 evening I stopped taking the maintenance doses. Again only 2 hits through the night with no wakeup hit.

12/30 no attacks since 6am now 11:30 will see what time brings.

Though I am still getting hit I find the improvements over 9,10, and more hits per day to be incredible. The level of pain alone from k10s allways to k7s is remarkable for me.

I know this varies from the recomended ways but it seems to be whats working for me.

If hard CH returns I will start again. I may get to DR. Flashes reccomendation yet.

MJ

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by Wendy on Dec 30^th, 2005, 1:46pm

Happy New Year, MJ
Here's to a PAINFREE KICK ASS 2006 for you!!

You deserve it!!

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by cmoore on Dec 30^th, 2005, 6:14pm

good luck MJ. Hope everything goes well for you. I am curioud if you have ever tried following the clusterbusters guide exactly as they lay it out. I was also curious if you have tried shrooms.

pain free wishes for 2006 - chris

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by Roxy on Dec 30^th, 2005, 10:11pm

Good luck MJ. Hope this will do it for you.

I have my four RC seeds soaking right now... :-/. Guess we'll see what happens.

Roxy 8)

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by BikerBob on Dec 30^th, 2005, 11:40pm

on 12/30/05 at 22:11:39, Roxy wrote:

I have my four RC seeds soaking right now... :-/. .
Roxy 8)

Four RC seeds ?

Please read the LSA FAQ on clusterbusters.com

BB

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Dec 31^st, 2005, 1:46am

Thanks all.

on 12/30/05 at 18:14:53, cmoore wrote:

I am curious if you have ever tried following the clusterbusters guide exactly as they lay it out. I was also curious if you have tried shrooms.
pain free wishes for 2006 - chris

Cmoore I saw in your thread your success, way cool.

Chris- of course I have followed the cluster busters giude excactly, well allmost, maybe. At least initially.

The knowledge and experience of clusterbusters is what I based my experiment on. It was their research that gave me the want to try RC seeds. Without clusterbusters I may have never known about the seeds, LSA, pscylocibin or how or why they might work.

They are also responsible for piquing my curiosity enough to doing additional reading on hallucinogenic research that really led me to try my varying ways and I am not done yet. I have been corrected when I have been just plain wrong. And as you see in this thread advice has never been far away.
I am still not a member of clusterbusters if such a membership exists.

No I have not tried shrooms extensively for CH. I am determined to see the RC seeds work for me. Because as I said in my original posts, for near 30 years Nothing has ever done for me and my CH what these silly little seeds have done so far. Thats not saying that I wont try them at some point. For now the convenience of the seeds has won me over.

MJ

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by Roxy on Dec 31^st, 2005, 4:31pm

on 12/30/05 at 23:40:34, BikerBob wrote:

Four RC seeds ?

Please read the LSA FAQ on clusterbusters.com

BB

I think that this is how the FAQ reads:

Quote:

7.2 Dosing - Rivea Corymbosa
Ethnogarden Botanicals states there's a 1 to 4 ratio of equivalence between the psychoactive effects of HBW and Rivea seeds, 5 HBW seeds being the same as 20 Rivea seeds.

In this case as stated above, 4 to 8 Rivea seeds should be the range people treating cluster headaches should remain at least for the first dose. If future doses are needed, this number can be modified to suit each individual. You may need to slowly increase the dose size. Begin with a low dose for safety and build higher only if a larger dose is needed for increased efficacy. Use a headache chart to track your progress and this will make it much easier to determine future dosing schedules and dose sizes.

Also, in this thread:

on 12/22/05 at 02:08:48, Pinkfloyd wrote:

I trust BobW in all matters concerning this, he has been a tremendous help to me over the years.

Roxy

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Jan 1^st, 2006, 2:26pm

Good luck Roxy.

I dont know your CH situation but I would think if even the slightest of benefit shows through with 4 RC seeds then dont be afraid to adjust your doses as your comfort allows.

I was very hesitant at first and others should be as well.
It makes you look harder at the results.

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Jan 5^th, 2006, 2:21am

OK now some good news.

I did not have a single cluster headache attack today.

I have not taken a single dose of RC seeds since 12/29 in the am, today is the 5th of january 8 days ago.

While consuming maintenance doses as reported in my last update post the attacks had leveled out to 3 and 4 per 24 hour periods.

The hits have not changed since stopping the seeds untill this morning they were the same. They did not get worse. They did not get better, they stayed the same untill now. A few days ago I had a hellacious migraine type headache to boot all day however. I felt the CH had stabilized enough that I could deal with them easy enough.

It may be a little premature in reporting this but I feel too damn good to keep it to myself. Pain free without the seeds, because of the seeds.

the last attack occured 22 hrs ago, 7 days after the last dose. Will update soon, hope I dont jinx it.

MJ

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Jan 6^th, 2006, 2:11pm

Update;
Still no seeds taken.

yesterday morning one attack at 7am wakeup following an unintterupted sleep through the night.

This morning same following a full nights sleep.

Thats just one attack per day in the last 3 days.

I find the attacks different in the fact that they are immediate and powerfull k10 but this only last for about 20 minutes and like a switch is thrown they drop down to maybe a k7 and hang for the remainder of an hour.

A second issue and possibly a CH, is that I have felt pain often, localized at the top of my cheekbone like the ends of the nerve are just letting me know we are not through with you yet. If this is a CH I would place it K4 on the scale.
Allways I have the CH in the temple area and it radiates to all the nerve from there, I do not feel pain in the temple when this occurs.

I still feel like a CH is hiding trying to get out.
I am blaming the seeds entirely for this improvement.

MJ

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Jan 13^th, 2006, 6:44pm

Update:

On jan. 7, I had dosed again with 20 seeds. due to the fact that CH was stiil hitting and I wanted it gone. 9 days after last dose,

Experienced no hits the day after but as each day went by the frequency and duration of hits went up. I did no sip or maintenance doses this time.

By thursday jan.12 5 days later, the attacks were again at K10s and allmost constant. Allmost every other hit hit twice, in other words an hour of pain then down to about a k6 and right back to a k9-10 for another hour. My head is pretty damn sore.

on jan.12 at midnight dosed again with 15 seeds. Slept the night through but awoke this am with a hard hit.
Started again a maintenance dose of 4 seeds powdered and sublingual. I will continue the maint. dose morning and night untill I again feel the hits have leveled out or 5 days wichever comes first. ( I say 5 days because thats the point that the seeds seem to make me fall asleep and have a negative effect for me.)

So far feeling pretty good, nice nap this afternoon with only a twinge of pain and silent attacks following wakeup.

For a while I had thought maybe my cycle was finishing but I am convinced once again that the RC seeds were responsible. I just hope they are not prolonging this cycle but its only been 2.5 months in cycle. 7 weeks treating with seeds.

Will see what time brings agaaaain.

MJ

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by pam s on Jan 13^th, 2006, 9:29pm

Hope you figure out a dosing regimen that works for you, MJ, and this most recent dose gives you a long break (tho any break is a good break). I am following your progress carefully (your CH pattern/experience sounds a lot like mine), so thanks for keeping us updated.

Title: Re: RC Seeds / Following Sqaunto
Post by MJ on Mar 24^th, 2007, 3:05am

the repeated story