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Title: Clusters and ph Post by Dawerasie on Nov 21st, 2005, 1:44am [smiley=laugh.gif] That's right, I'm laughing for the first time in months. A cluster sufferer of some 7 years, I have at last discovered a way to get rid of the beast. Balancing my body's ph has ended my current cycle prematurely (it should have persisted at least until January). This could be a major discovery - has anyone heard of, read about, or otherwise know about a correlation between ph balance and clusters? |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by MJ on Nov 21st, 2005, 2:00am No never heard of that. I could certainly use a cure right now. Do tell. Hows it work? MJ |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by BobG on Nov 21st, 2005, 2:10am Ditto what MJ said. Please, do tell us. |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by Mr. Happy on Nov 21st, 2005, 2:55am on 11/21/05 at 01:44:57, Dawerasie wrote:
Good. Good This should be good...... Lime juice, or baking soda? Good. RJ |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by Dawerasie on Nov 21st, 2005, 4:28am Hi, all. The method is a natural eating plan which I followed for 2 weeks. After the first week my clusters started diminishing in both regularity and intensity. Halfway through the second week I returned my rented oxygen canister to the supplier (in faith). It has now been 3 weeks since I started the plan, and I have been totally pain free for 9 days. The eating plan is not a diet, but works on the simple principle of eating whole foods in stead of processed, not mixing protein with starch in the same meal, and a few other scientific truths: 80% of what you consume on a daily basis (in volume or mass, although it's not necessary to weigh everything) must consist of vegetables & fruit, preferable raw or steamed (el dente). These foods include asparagus, beet, broccoli, carrots, spinach, celery, cucumbers, garlic, squash, sprouts, red/yellow/green peppers, parsley, unions, all fruits, and sprouted grains. 15% of what you consume daily can consist of protein of choice, potato, sweet potato, candy (sweets), whole grain rice, white cheese. 5% of your daily intake should include oats, yoghurt and omega 3 / omega 6 fatty acid supplements like flax oil (1 table spoon per day). Avoid: dairy, wine, processed meats & cheeses, white flour products, refined bakes. Cut down to a minimum: red meat, wheat, corn. MUST DO: At least 1 liter of distilled / mineral water per day; at least a half-hour of intensive exercise per day. Good supplements: magnesium, vitamins, calcium. The theory behind the principle is that a body ph that is too low (acidic) can cause clusters (among other things). A few golden rules: Try not to mix starch with protein; acid fruits (citrus, melons etc) with sweet fruits (banana, paw-paw, raisins etc); or fruit with any other food. All fruits are best taken in the morning on their own. Avoid fruit juice with meals. Protein digests at a much higher acidity than starch and when eaten at the same time causes fermentation in the gut. This pushes the body's acidity sky-high (and causes all kinds of gastric irritations, of course). Hope this works for you too. If you are as desperate as I was, you should at least try - my cycle has been broken...touch wood - and I feel excellent otherwise as well! ;;D Regards to all C-Heads DS |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by LeLimey on Nov 21st, 2005, 4:42am I'm not at all sure what you mean about balancing the body's ph? I never knew you COULD balance your bodies' ph.. to what? how do you know its "balanced"?Can you explain that in more detail? The diet to be honest sounds fairly "normal" to me there's nothing in there that most healthy eating plans don't recommend in all honesty. I hope you stay pain free! |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by Dawerasie on Nov 21st, 2005, 5:12am I'm not a scientist - please ask your physician about "ph balance". I am only relating what my doctor told me, that a body ph that is too low could cause clusters. If you're sceptic, please just disregard the post. I promise you, though: it worked for me, whether I understand the physics or not. :) Regards |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by MJ on Nov 21st, 2005, 6:21am A proper diet and excersise of course is a key to all good health. Glad you had the discipline and pulled off a plan. Its great that your out of cycle so soon. |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by pattik on Nov 21st, 2005, 9:46am Trying to adjust your PH for health purposes is a bunch of HOOEY! (http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/DSH/coral2.html) |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by seasonalboomer on Nov 21st, 2005, 9:54am on 11/21/05 at 09:46:39, pattik wrote:
Now that someone has chosen to use the "hooey" word.... Is adjusting your Ph anything like adjusting your wattage? |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by floridian on Nov 21st, 2005, 10:38am The pH balancing idea has relatively little to do with pH per se. It does include an increase in magnesium, a decrease in sodium, more water, and less inflammatory fats, to name a few things. Also, fewer proteins could mean less nitrogen, and less nitric oxide as a result. It is known that clusterheads have abnormally high reaction to platelet activating factor, and anticoagulants help some people with clusters and migraines. Fasting or modified fasting can reduce PAF levels to 1/7 of the pre-fast levels. See J. Morgan's detox diet info: http://www.med-owl.com/clusterheadaches/tiki-index.php?page=Detox%20Diet |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by Ueli on Nov 21st, 2005, 10:45am What a heap of bs! This is about the worst "diet plan" ever to be published in a women's weekly. :( First and foremost: You cannot influence the pH of your body in any way. Nature has provided a highly efficient buffering system that keeps pH at the requited level, almost regardless of what we eat. Drinking a liter of battery acid will probably etch a hole in your guts, but does not lower significantly the body pH. Some other inconsistencies: If we should not mixing protein with starch in the same meal why should we Avoid: white flour products? On processing wheat for white flour all spelt and germinal are removed first, the end product being almost pure starch with no protein left. The ideal "food for pH balancing", isn't it? Or is it the word "processing" that will bring pH out of whack? MUST DO: At least 1 liter of distilled / mineral water per day Drinking lots of distilled water is one of the worst advice I ever heard. This will bring your body out of whack, not the pH, but the electrolyte that buffer the pH value. Why can't I drink my tap water, it is saturated with calcium ions, do I really have to buy a calcium supplements? MUST DO: At least a half-hour of intensive exercise per day. That is sure good for the general health, but how in hell does it adjust the pH value in the right direction? Protein digests at a much higher acidity than starch and when eaten at the same time causes fermentation in the gut. This pushes the body's acidity sky-high. Up to now I thought that fermentation was caused by yeasts, not protein in general. Furthermore, the products of fermentation are alcohol and carbon dioxide. Pray, please tell, how can these influence pH, even push acidity "sky-high"? There remains the question why about 6 billion living people don't have CH, despite they don't follow these dietary rules? If you're sceptic, please just disregard the post Sorry, can't do that, I must protest against such unscientific gibberish. Dawerasie, I'm glad your cycle came to an early end. But you could as well attribute it to the last new moon instead this diet. PFNADs, Ueli [smiley=smokin.gif] |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by Dawerasie on Nov 21st, 2005, 11:35am See http://www.healingdaily.com/conditions/saliva-ph-test.htm. It may not be good enough for Ueli, but it's good enough for me. ;;D |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by brainfreeze on Nov 21st, 2005, 11:41am Give some credit where credit is due. Eating a diet full of fresh fruits and vegetables does bring about a cleasing in the bloodstream when the liver is not inundated with toxicity from poor absorption and elimination. Call it 'ph balancing' or a 'diet change' in either case it's an honest approach. Food combining does have the ability to rot in the gut. It takes one type of stomach acid to break down starches and another type of acid to break down proteins. Everyone knows that when two acids meet, they neutralize one another. Combined acids do not break the foods down appropriately causing a toxicity in the gut. You know this is happening when you burp an hour after you eat your meal, and taste what you ate. White processed flour is the most abused food in America. The problem with the flour is that essential nutrients are removed from the wheat when milled such as chromium which is a vital component used in the digestion process. Since it's removed, the body cannot effectively digest it. The biggest result is extra pounds. This same type of scenrio is present in all processed foods. I believe this addresses most of the questions presented that refer to this process as hogwash. It isn't. It is a total healthy way to a pain free life. It even has the ability to delay or thwart other diseases, like cardio-vascular, arthritis, diabetes, cancer. Something to think about. p.s. I too am a ch sufferer and this ended my chronic ch's 3-4 daily. To an episodic. I am thankful. |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by mcf69 on Nov 21st, 2005, 11:51am Do you mean PH or acid-base balance? The body's acid base balance has to do with PH, but is unaffected by diet, the body has built in buffer systems to correct acid base imbalance. To make a long story short it is almost impossible for a healthy person to affect the body's acid-base balance for more than a few hours at a time. |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by Jasmyn on Nov 21st, 2005, 12:26pm Dawie of Dawid. Ek is baie bly jy het n' oplossing vir hierdie kondisie gekry wat vir jou werk. Jammer as dit lyk asof jy net afgeskiet word, maar te veel mense het al voorheen hier stellings gemaak wanneer hulle nuut is, wat nie genoeg huiswerk oor n' saak gedoen het om die aanslae te verweer nie. Mense is skepties en dis hulle reg maar as dit vir jou werk gaan voort daarmee. n' Goeie begin op hierdie webwerf is om mense toe te laat om jou te leer ken voor jy net inval met n' "cure" al het jy dit duidelik gestel dat dit vir jou gewerk het. Groete Jasmyn |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by pattik on Nov 21st, 2005, 12:34pm on 11/21/05 at 11:41:04, brainfreeze wrote:
HOOEY, HOOEY, AND MORE HOOEY (http://www.quackwatch.org/11Ind/fitforlife.html) |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by Mr. Happy on Nov 21st, 2005, 12:57pm on 11/21/05 at 11:41:04, brainfreeze wrote:
Not everyone knows this. H2SO4 + NaOH ---> ??? H2SO4 + HCl ---> ??? Fe + FI + FO + Fm --> ??? Your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to balance the equations, then restate your findings. Better living thru chemicals. RJ |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by floridian on Nov 21st, 2005, 1:33pm For hundreds of years, mothers told their kids not to go out in cold or damp weather without a jacket - you'll catch a cold. Then the science fetishists came along, and ridiculed this idea. Colds, they pointed out, were caused by viruses, not by being cold. So for 50 years, the idea that cold can enter the body and cause disease was discounted. Then finally someone noticed that exposure to cold impaired the immune system and increased the risk of a virus triggering an active infection. So the traditional wisdom was correct, as was the true science, but the science fetishists got it all wrong, because they couldn't think beyond their limited ideology, they couldn't accept the fact that people who didn't speak their lingo might have figured out something of how the world works. Quote:
Utter psuedoscientific nonsense, Ueli, you should be ashamed. It is true that the blood is highly buffered and regulated, but blood does not equal the body. Why not read some of the scientific literature - like the article entitled "Diet acids and alkalis influence calcium retention in bone" in the Osteoporesis International journal? (PMID: 11446566) They compared acidic and alkali diets and concluded "The acid-forming diet increased urinary calcium excretion by 74% when compared with the base-forming diet (p<0.0001), both at baseline and after the oral calcium load ... " Given the fact there is an established link between calcium and neurovascular headaches, maybe a diet that increases the excretion by 74% can push some people over the edge?? Not convinced? Here's another quote from another study (this one conducted in Basel): "An acidogenic Western diet results in mild metabolic acidosis in association with a state of cortisol excess, altered divalent ion metabolism, and increased bone resorptive indices. Acidosis-induced increases in cortisol secretion and plasma concentration may play a role in mild acidosis-induced alterations in bone metabolism and possibly in osteoporosis associated with an acidogenic Western diet." (PMID: 12388390) So not only does the typical western diet affect calcium balance, it also affects cortisol/cortisone balance. Not that there is any scientific basis that cortisol/cortisone levels might affect clusters - OOPS, there could be another link right there!! Quote:
That is an incredible fact - you should publish it right away. The literature concludes that refining the flour reduces the protein content by only about 20 to 30 percent, leaving 70 to 80 percent of the protein in white flour. And while white flour has less total protein, it has a higher concentration of gluten proteins, which make for more elastic breads (along with the ability to trigger more immune response to gluten). Quote:
Fermentation is caused by enzymes or catalysts, which may be in the presence or absence of microbes. Green tea is fermented into red or black tea by crushing the leaves and allowing the plant's own enzymes to change the color of the tea. Quote:
That is always a possibility that must be considered, but others (like long-time poster JMorgan) has repeatedly turned off a cycle by the detox diet. While the effect of diet on CH has not been conclusively proven, the knee-jerk assumption that the dietary measures cannot have any effect on CH is also irrational and unscientific. Quote:
And there is the question of why more than 10% of the world's population suffers from neurovascular headaches - why do hundreds of millions of people have serious or disabling migraines and clusters?? Quote:
In the name of the hundredth anniversary of E=mc^2, then get your facts right. I expected better out of Die Schweiz on this auspicious day. |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by youngmichael on Nov 21st, 2005, 2:57pm on 11/21/05 at 13:33:36, floridian wrote:
I totally agree with you, Floridian. Science has a long way to go towards understanding the human body and mind. The whole idea that science will prove conventional wisdom wrong seems naive to me. This diet thing rings true because it includes the kinds of foods that humans have been eating for hundreds of thousands of years, the very foods that we evolved with. A couple years ago I went to my parents place for christmas. I remember eating sweets and big starchy meals for a month straight. I also remember the fact that it was the worst cylcle of my life. My family was in the house enjoying the season, while I was laying in my room writhing in pain. I stopped eating sugar this year. I got my regular fall cycle, but it has been so much weaker(nothing higher than a K8). I don't know if it is because of that, but I really think so. |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by CHTom on Nov 21st, 2005, 3:10pm "15% of what you consume daily can consist of protein of choice, potato, sweet potato, candy (sweets), whole grain rice, white cheese." I thought that potatoes, sweet potatoes where starches, as is whole grain rice; did'n't realize that candy (sweets) were also protein. You also said to avoid dairy products but then say to eat white cheese? I'm glad that your headaches are gone, but I seriously doubt that it was due to this diet. I'm also with Ueli on this one. |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by Margi on Nov 21st, 2005, 3:33pm Good for you, Floridian. We HAVE to look at the big picture, try the untried and turn over EVERY stone in our quest for the cure. I am the first to admit that diet can't cause cluster, but I still can't be convinced that there aren't influencing factors and sensitivites created when candida is allowed to flourish and overgrow. This diet is very similar to the candida diet (except the sugars). Candida diet is basically eat nothing white: dairy, flour, sugar. For those of you that think this is hooey, you've obviously never done a cleanse or a candida diet. You'd be amazed at how much better you feel and how much toxic stuff you eliminate. When I say "amazed", I mean AMAZED. :o The writer that said they avoided sugar from one cycle to the next proves the original poster's point. The sugar free cycle was much weaker than the one where he did eat a lot of sugar (a primary candida feeder). Remember Flash's test way back when? Remember how OVERWHELMINGLY positive this group of clusterheads tested for candida overgrowth? Don't throw this baby out with the bathwater, folks. Flash got positive results from controlling his candida before he went the alternative route. No, I don't think this is a cure for cluster, but I sure do think there is some merit to eating better and not playing with fire while in cycle by ingesting things that produce sensitivities. I'm glad your cycle ended, and I don't doubt that by doing what you did with your diet, that you did indeed kick it fully out the door (it was probably on it's way out but I think this probably helped.) So THERE. |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by kcopelin on Nov 21st, 2005, 3:58pm Wow! I have enough trouble remembering to eat some days, but hey if this worked for you then good. I suppose a case could be made that the old vinegar and bleu cheese method (douse self with vinegar and spread bleu cheese on chest-inhale deeply and continue until spouse throws your stinky butt out the door) ;;Dmay have had an effect on the ph of something. Listen-not downing anyone-who knows, this may have brought the body back to stasis (balance) and for others eating mass quantities of walnuts and white chocolate may do the same thing. It is obvious that we clusterheads have at least a hypothalumus out of whack and that certainly could lead to other systems being out of whack. The idea of doing a cleanse to rid body of toxins certainly seems like a good idea, but I will totally pass on the high colonics :o continued PFDAN for you, kathy and by the by, don't get too rattled if someone yells TROLL. It happens when a newbie posts a miraculous cure. But you might get lucky. |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by MJ on Nov 21st, 2005, 4:21pm I'm all for the food diet and cleansing thing. I cant imagine it not being of benefit in some way. But Jasmyn or Dawerasie while trying to decipher the lanquage you speak I found a new trigger. What is the lanquage? I got the skepties part. Its kindof like trying to decipher my parents speaking a combo of finn, swede and norwegian dialects when discussing Xmas presents as a small child. :) |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by CHTom on Nov 21st, 2005, 5:42pm The "cleansing thing", i.e., getting rid of the "poisons"in the body-usually by using some sort of laxative-some types of waters do this-is an old fashioned, medically discredited idea from thee 18th centruy or earlier. The body does not "store" poisons and "cleansing" the body of these supposed poisons (what are they anyway?) is nonsence, unless you like taking laxatives, which can be habit forming, but hey, if you think that you are full of poisonous sh*t, be my guest! Some of the old cure places used to encourage the drinking of urine (and there is a little colony of folks somewhere in Europe who still do this when they get together for their summer camps)-champagne for me! ::) |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by Jasmyn on Nov 21st, 2005, 5:44pm on 11/21/05 at 16:21:20, MJ wrote:
MJ it is actually a language derived from the ones you mentioned plus, Dutch, Flemish, German and a few more, it is called Afrikaans. He has a typical Afrikaans type name and he is from South Africa. All of us can speak at least 3 languages and understand a few more. "Some" people might be under the impression that we are an uneducated race, then so be it but we are not so refined that we lost touch with the earth and left it all to scientists to prove every single thing for us. I can see that Dawie/Dawid wrote from our way of doing and saying things - enthusiastically getting to the point. Then when info are asked we deliver. |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by Ueli on Nov 21st, 2005, 7:02pm Floridan, you're a nitpicker ;) "It is true that the blood is highly buffered and regulated", and since the blood is kept separated from the surrounding by impervious vessels the rest of the body can have any acidity, from sky-high to rock-bottom, or something in this direction??? Acidosis is essentially a pathological condition, nothing typical for a clusterhead. Given the fact there is an established link between calcium and neurovascular headaches, maybe a diet that increases the excretion by 74% can push some people over the edge?? Highly speculative IMHO. We have a huge store of Ca in our bones (~1.2 kg). Compared to this the amount in the blood is very small, and easily maintained provided there is an ample supply of vitamin D. Prolonged short supply in food or excessive excretion will damage the bones, but you'll have me to show a paper that reports a decrease in serum concentration and an hence an influence on CH. Ok, I didn't look it up. But even if only 20 to 30% of the protein is removed in white flour, it's still a good thing if one should not mix proteins with carbohydrates. Wikipedia says: In its strictest sense, fermentation is the anaerobic metabolic breakdown of a nutrient molecule, such as glucose, without net oxidation. Ok, so it's not the yeast that breaks down sugars, but by enzymes produced by the yeast. Hail the perfectionists! But the fact remains neither alcohol nor lactic acid, another fermentation product, "push the body's acidity sky-high". (BTW, the WHO consider the daily amount of lactic acid intake from one pound of sauerkraut AND 6 yoghurt as save. People doing this must be really sick, not only in Dawerasie's theory.) Oh yeah, I remember JMorgan, who found a diet that gets rid in days of "toxins" that took years to accumulate in the body. The only trouble is he couldn't tell a thing about the nature of these toxins. Google is of no help either. It's 7.6 million hits for "toxin" can be separated two groups: Some scientific papers discussing a specific, named toxin, from an exotic critter or plant or such, something the average Joe never comes in contact with. The large majority is from complementary medicine gurus and health food pedlars, who are not able or not willing to disclose the nature of the "toxins" they are talking about so much. Florian, since you are so much more knowledgeable than I in these matters, could you tell us something more specific on these much quoted toxins that we are in such dire need to be cleansed off? PFNADs, Ueli [smiley=smokin.gif] |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by Ueli on Nov 21st, 2005, 7:03pm brainfreeze wrote: Eating a diet full of fresh fruits and vegetables does bring about a cleasing in the bloodstream when the liver is not inundated with toxicity from poor absorption and elimination. No that is a sentence this simplemind doesn't understand. Do the toxic residua from fertilizer, insecticides, fungicides, weed killers, chemical pruners and many more clean out the blood pipes, the same way clean a blocked sink? A poor absorption of toxicity (other than from veggies and fruit) would benefit the liver, not inundate it with harmful stuff. Call it 'ph balancing' or a 'diet change' in either case it's an honest approach. I thought up to now, it is essential to communication to give every concept its proper name. ...ability to rot in the gut... ...acid to break down starches... ... chromium which is a vital component used in the digestion process (and apparently only available in whole wheat).... etc. etc. Give some credit where credit is due. I give most of credit for this to the pseudo scientific babble in the advertising of shameless and unscrupulous 'health'food and diet scammers. PFNADs, Ueli [smiley=smokin.gif] |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by Jonny on Nov 21st, 2005, 7:21pm Ill take a guess and say most folks dont know Ueli's background ;;D Keep on them Ueli [smiley=bash.gif] LMAO ;) |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by pattik on Nov 21st, 2005, 7:31pm on 11/21/05 at 19:21:58, Jonny wrote:
I think I can make an educated guess. ;;D Quote:
Ditto to that, Jonny. ;) |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by mcf69 on Nov 21st, 2005, 9:28pm I can speak with a little authority in the subject matter of acid base balance, and all I have to say is ueli is 99.9% right, basic medicine, well studied and understood |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by mcf69 on Nov 21st, 2005, 10:03pm on 11/21/05 at 12:57:49, Mr. Happy wrote:
OK here goes, H2SO4 + NaOH ---> Na2SO4 + H2O or acid + base H2SO4 + HCl ---> HCL +H2SO4 combination of sulfuric acid with muriatic acid to produce hydrogen chloride The last one, Fe + FI + FO + Fm --> ??? Is rust |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by pattik on Nov 22nd, 2005, 9:38am on 11/21/05 at 12:57:49, Mr. Happy wrote:
Don't know much about chemistry, but I do know a little about childrens' literature-- Fee Fi Fo Fum (I smell the blood of an Englishman) ;;D |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by brainfreeze on Nov 22nd, 2005, 11:37am on 11/21/05 at 19:03:19, Ueli wrote:
PFDANS to everyone. Good luck in your ventures. |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by floridian on Nov 22nd, 2005, 1:19pm Quote:
Quote:
Clearly, the term 'toxin' is used in a non-specific manner by most of lay-people who talk of an alkaline diet. They don't know exactly what the toxin (or pathological mechanism) is anymore than than mothers through history knew the exact mechanism where being cold causes a cold. Since you don't understand the concept of mild acidosis, which is widespread and quite different from diabetic ketoacidosis (which is often referred to as simply 'acidosis'), perhaps the abstract below from the European Journal of Nutrition will explain: Quote:
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by floridian on Nov 22nd, 2005, 1:20pm -continued- The 'alkaline diet' that was discussed earlier in this thread includes a variety of changes to body chemistry, including: Increased calcium and magnesium intake Decreased calcium excretion Increased potassium intake Reduced sodium intake Given the fact that many researchers believe that CH involves the genes responsible for ion transport, these dietary changes alone provide a hypothetical mechanism by which an alkaline diet might help some people with CH. Does it help? I don't know for certain. But I won't mis-characterize the diet and dismiss it as unscientific merely because I don't like their use of the word 'toxin' or 'ferment' or because 'acidosis' can mean different things in different contexts. And of course, the alkaline diet is more than just calcium/potassium/sodium and acidity. Boosting the intake of fruits and vegetables, fish oil ;;D and other components can have widespread effects on the body. Which (if any) of those might help? Again, I don't know, but it is worth talking about it fairly. |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by Ueli on Nov 22nd, 2005, 10:07pm on 11/21/05 at 19:02:00, Ueli wrote:
The answer: on 11/22/05 at 13:19:22, floridian wrote:
Sorry, I'm not quite satisfied by this answer. It is completely clear to me, lay people don't know much, nor give a damn for, what these "toxins" are, whether related to acidosis or anything else. They have been brainwashed by thousands of ads and TV commercials into believing that "toxins" are very bad and you must get rid of them, whatever the cost. But I put blame on the multi million (or billion) $ businesses of the 'health' food and nutritional supplement industry. They sell expensive stuff that cleanses you from "toxins" and make you healthier. But these "toxins" are extremely elusive. Nobody can identify these "toxins", what they are chemically, where they come from, why they are accumulated in your body and by which way they make you sick. Much less is there any evidence that anything is removed by the recommended treatments; something easily to detect in the urine or feces as it usually only takes days to "cleanse" the body. These "toxins" are as mythical as the Tooth Fairy, and can only be seen - as the Emperor new clothes - by those who believe they are not foolish. The fact that some of these treatment are 5000 year old is no excuse not to test and analyze them with modern day methods and laboratory techniques. Since the these tests are not done, this can mean that the tests would be failed miserably and that there are still enough suckers who don't need any proof. In my much esteemed opinion, people who sell stuff to "cleanse" from unspecified "toxins" are nothing less than miserable scum. My proposal: Disband the DEA and assign the freed funds to the FDA, so they have enough resources not only to go after products that are harmful to health, but also after every scam that makes unproven claims. Ueli [smiley=smokin.gif] Afterthought: The Tooth Fairy makes more sense: I have some evidence for the Tooth Fairy, because I saw the money under my pillow. I haven't seen a "toxin" yet. |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by Jasmyn on Nov 23rd, 2005, 3:07am Posted by: Dawerasie Quote:
It all started with an enthusiastic person (fellow country man) asking a question and said it was working for him. He did not ask you to buy anything. He was asked by 3 people to explain the method that MJ placed under "cure". Dawerasie never stated cure he said: Quote:
for him - temporary/permanently - ? - we don't know and he doesn't know yet: Quote:
and Quote:
Don't speed read but understand where people’s comments and suggestions are coming from. He states and does not want to insult: Quote:
MJ and Floridian answered without insults but given their comments. Then we start to pull the theory apart but with insults: Posted by: Ueli Quote:
Dawerasie last post I think on this site as with many newbie’s (note that he is still polite): Quote:
Brainfreeze, Floridian, Margi, Youngmichael and Kathy make positive comments and arguments, Mcf69 argues the point while Pattik totally disagrees and the Happy man tries to save the situation with comic relief and then the REAL TROLL (CHTom) jumps in and agrees with Ueli, who can be a wealth of information on a good day, but watch out when the moon is full! - normal situation in Clusterville. A good eating plan is never bad, just a pity… Clusterheads don’t like the taste ;) |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by floridian on Nov 23rd, 2005, 8:13am on 11/22/05 at 22:07:23, Ueli wrote:
Well, I provided a set of hypothetical scientific mechanisms by which the proposed changes in diet -might- modify cluster headaches. And I agreed with you that the term toxin was not used in the same way that most scientists use it, although I think there might be some value. I don't think I can do better than that. on 11/22/05 at 22:07:23, Ueli wrote:
LMAO - I still haven't seen a quark, and that talk about strange charm is too strange for me. ;) on 11/22/05 at 22:07:23, Ueli wrote:
Maybe we should do a cost-benefit analysis to see if it is more effective to put that money towards reducing the hundreds of thousands of deaths that occur yearly from medical mistakes and polypharmacy! I have no problem with combating fraud and miracle cures, but I don't think that kills nearly as many people. |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by pattik on Nov 23rd, 2005, 10:05am on 11/23/05 at 03:07:51, Jasmyn wrote:
Quote:
Hi Jas, I understand your desire to defend a fellow countryman. With all due respect, since you brought my name back into this, I just want to say in my own defense that reading a poster's suggestion to disregard a post if you're a sceptic is an invitation to investigate. I don't have a scientific background like others here, but that doesn't negate my right to be sceptical and respond accordingly to posts which I regard to be "hooey". Quote:
I have one of the healthiest diets of anyone I know, and my overall general health (minus the CH) can attest to it. But I'm sick and tired of being inundated with people who try to tell me they have "the answer". A wise man (Václav Havel) once said that we should stay close to people who are searching for the truth, and run away from those who have found it. ;) |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by seasonalboomer on Nov 23rd, 2005, 10:42am on 11/23/05 at 03:07:51, Jasmyn wrote:
Careful not to overgeneralize there Jas. Many here have their diet programs that work for them. What I've learned in watching all the "de-tox" answers to this problem and that problem is that there is a tendency to want to throw the baby out with the bathwater when it comes to diet. In all areas. For instance, those wanting to lose weight feel like they need to completely change their lives when they really only have a 200 claorie a day issue. Many people can find this many calories and maintain and even lose weight with a few easy choices each day. But don't tell people it's that easy, they might succeed. Then there's the folks who want the whole world to eat organic, and only eat raw vegetables and fruits, and so on, ad nauseum. That's great for those that have access and enough money. The rest of the world isn't necessarily being poisoned however. In fact, a lot of what most people eat every day is just fine. Sure, it may not be perfect, but it's meeting their nutritional needs. Detox diets have been considered myth by many in a lot of circles. Just because Gwyneth or Madonna swear by it doesn't make it gospel. Just as I don't take the word of Madonna for my religious and moral beliefs, I tend to try to read from a broad range of input when it comes to nutrition, toxins, and the rest of the noise out there when it comes to diet. As I've said on many subjects here, the truth always lies somewhere in between two opposing viewpoints. Spending too much time poking around at the edges is only going to take you further from that point in the middle where the truth resides. My 2 cents. Scott |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by MJ on Nov 23rd, 2005, 10:44am Jasmyn is right it was I that inserted the "cure" word and I was certainly looking for one. He did not state that. Due to language and cultural speak it came off as a sales pitch. I think it was not intended like that and I think he was also looking for input. Definately got that. I believe Dewarasei was simply stating what seems to work for him. As many have said what works for one doesnt allways work for another. Live and learn. D. correct me if I'm wrong. And welcome to this cantankerous bunch if you have chosen to keep reading. You too are a clusterhead and my knowledge base has increased because of you. I have enjoyed the follow ups. MJ |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by Phil L on Nov 23rd, 2005, 10:49am Pat, how right you are! Cheers, Phil |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by Jasmyn on Nov 23rd, 2005, 12:24pm Maybe this is more of a language/cultural issue. Pattik wrote Quote:
Everyone has their right to agree and disagree with topics of conversation, I'm a firm believer in freedom of speech. It is just sometimes hard, as proven here, to express yourself adequately for everyone to understand your true meaning and because we only have words to use, with no sound, inflexion, facial expression or body language, we sometimes assume we are insulted or attacked. Please note the use of "we" as I classify myself under everything I say, I do not want to be misunderstood again. In my Afrikaans version to Dawerasie, I explained to him the correct protocol when entering this board and tried to make him aware of the fact that you have to have enough info and facts to back your theories before you make such a claim. So please I'm not fighting anyone and this to me, is not worth a fight. ;) PS: Thanks for your insight MJ |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by kayarr on Nov 29th, 2005, 2:16am on 11/21/05 at 10:38:39, floridian wrote:
I know that J. is chronic and when he was in the hospital having a stent put in after a heart attack he had three pain free days and they had filled him up with anticoagulants. Hmmmmm............ |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph UPDATE for Ueil and CHTom Post by jmorgan52 on Feb 9th, 2006, 3:15pm I am so sorry I missed this post way back in November as it was just up my street well done Dawie and I hope it is still working out for you and I hope they haven't scared you off the board. I have been PF for so long that I started to ignore this board for a while :) Well I am back and glad to hear about a fellow South African who has had some success using a similar diet to me. And thanks for your support Floridian. A level head amongst a few loud and narrow minded nutters here who think they are God's gift to the medical world. While I do agree that we need to warn newbies about real snake oil, please don't knock harmless common sense ideas that work for some. As for diet and health in general I am always amazed about those here who brag about how many Mcmuffins, burgers, coffee and giggies they consume and don't make the possible connection between their life style and their health problems. And lets face it - CH is a HEALTH PROBLEM NOT A DISEASE. IMHO ;) I re-iterate that my detox diet is STILL WORKING for me, and I have now added colonic cleansing to my arsenal (I still love that word ;;D ) and for those TROLLS like Ueli, CHTom (doubting Thomas ;;D ) and co ,who jump on these sort of posts to put us down, well I guess you are entitled to your views. I just hope some other readers here have the sense to give these DRUG FREE ideas a try! And CHTom - I came across this post while researching "where you are coming from" with your thinking process from your past posts. I was quite shocked that you have been prepared to undergo brain surgery and an implant to fix your CH (with only limited positive results from what I can read between the lines) You must have immense belief and trust in the medical profession my friend! This would have been a better idea to try first don't you think? I would (and did) try almost everything apart from surgery and hallucinogenics in my long search for the answer. I believe I have found the holy grail for me. Best Regards John |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by jackieg on Feb 9th, 2006, 8:03pm I am in favor of a healthy attitude and a common-sense cure. I do have some questions with regard to detox and diet. I was just wondering why I don't have headaches all the time since I eat the same foods, exercise, drink alcohol, etc. all year long? I have used laxatives and try to avoid getting backed up with toxins. I do not even get regular headaches in between cycles. I am not a doctor, but I have come to believe that CH is a physical abnormality in the brain, which in turn affects hormones, chemicals, digestion, etc. It is the brain which produces the hormones, and because there is a glitch, we have a huge CH problem. Aren't epilepsy, terrets (sp), mental illness, and other conditions the result of a malfunctioning brain. Our rhythms are all screwed up. Of course, there are many things that can make our situation more painful and most of us know to avoid them. (alcohol, processed foods) I know that doing healthy things can help the brain sort of reset itself easier and perhaps sooner. I just don't feel that this is a cure all. Am I completely wrong? |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by floridian on Feb 9th, 2006, 8:58pm I don't think most people are talking about cures; no one would say that lithium or kudzu or oxygen is a 'cure.' When a person goes into cycle (for whatever reasons related to the brain, daylength, heat, stress or whatever) their body starts glitching in a new way. A treatment can stop the glitching, but isn't necessarily a cure. Really, the whole idea of a cure is a human created idea distinct from reality. Say that a kid goes swimming in a lake and gets a sinus infection. The kid takes antibiotics. Bacterial infection dissappears. Is the kid really cured? Sure, until a month later when he goes swimming and gets another infection. Antibiotics might 'cure' him dozens of times. Is each infection an episode of the same disease, or a completely different disease. And once the pattern is spotted, which is better: not swimming in Lake McGoo, or taking antibiotics more frequently to prevent an infection from getting established? |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by jackieg on Feb 9th, 2006, 9:55pm Relief is a common goal for us, a possible cure is what keeps me going. My biggest fear is that my two little girls will develop these nightmares. I pray mostly for them, not me! I think we all might have a weak moment and jump in the lake if it gets too hot. Especially if all of you friends come out healthy. We are all optimistic, especially during a PF period. Personally, when my cycle ends, I feel as though it will never come again. I have been feeling this way for 19 years. I can even talk about the CH like they are a thing of the past. It is like every cycle was blended into a one time event. Then BOOM! I do believe that the whole seasonal/light issue is a huge factor for me. This is something I can not really control unless I wear a light box on my head all winter or stay inside half the summer. I have to work from 8-3 and when I get out there is one hour of light left. I am outside all summer long. So most of my cycles have started in the late spring or early winter, like clock work. I do have an interesting book, Circadian Prescrption by Dr. S. Baker. He does not specifically address CH, but does explain SAD and the effects of light on the brain. He discusses the importance of schedule, diet, light exposure, the effects of candida in the body and the harm antibiotics cause. I have thought about contacting him because he treats people with unusual disorders, combining traditional medicine with alternative methods. Sadly, I think he has retired because I can not seem to find him listed in Connecticut. |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by Ueli on Feb 9th, 2006, 11:51pm on 02/09/06 at 15:15:43, jmorgan52 wrote:
on 02/09/06 at 15:15:43, jmorgan52 wrote:
Here's an example of John's understanding of what he thinks is "medical science": on 02/09/06 at 04:00:23, the moronic troll jmorgan52 wrote:
Fact is, if you eat something harmful it doesn't take a detour to an accumulation of waste in a pathological kink of the colon, but acts more directly. If you eat something giving a belly-ache that ache starts soon after you swallowed the stuff, not with a large delay when the colon can't get rid of it. If you eat something you are allergic too (example: strawberries for some people) the allergic reaction starts as soon as the allergen reaches the bloodstream from the stomach (or the duodenum or the small intestine, that come before the colon). If you eat a spoiled tin of beans, the botulinum toxin will paralyze you directly, not only when the body tries to get rid of it (something there's anyway not enough time left). John, I recommend you ardently indulge in the lecture of "Readers Digest" and any women's weekly magazine to bring up your medical knowledge a bit closer to the present. If you want to believe in "toxins", like small children in Santa Claus, please do so, but spare us of you medical bullshit. BTW, On September 19th, 2002 (http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=medsarchive;action=display;num=1032443027;start=0#20) you reported success with an almost industrial strength cleansing and "detoxing" agent BePure and on November 18th, 2003 (http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=dec2003;action=display;num=1069131457;start=0#10) you even plugged their web site. Is it sill useful for you or were the kickbacks not high enough? Ueli [smiley=smokin.gif] |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by Rock_Lobster on Feb 10th, 2006, 12:18am Blood ph level is hereditary. Mine is wicked low. Here is a pic of my mom over the holidays... http://movies.monstrous.com/pictures/alien_movie_monster_08.jpg |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by jmorgan52 on Feb 10th, 2006, 4:12am BTW, On September 19th, 2002 you reported success with an almost industrial strength cleansing and "detoxing" agent BePure and on November 18th, 2003 you even plugged their web site. Is it sill useful for you or were the kickbacks not high enough? Ueli ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes Ueli, the BePure still works very well for me thank you very much. I use it whenever I start my 6 monthly Detox and it has the same effect of making me feel more energetic after a few days. It seems to have a nice "tonic effect" for me. As for kick backs you fuken idiot, how on earth do you think I could possibly benefit from this? I pay for the product like everyone else. My "plug" of the website as you call it was just so that others could see what they were offering and I was using. I sell nothing, ever, PERIOD! I am a lifetime CH, Migraine and general Headache sufferer. What works for me works for me ok? And of couse as ever Prof Ueli you are always right and many millions of others are wrong and are living in the 18th Century! Whose pay pocket are you living in? What benefits have you brought to this board other than criticism of things you are too closed minded to accept as possible solutions. The purpose of this particular MB I remind you is: This is where you can talk about specific medications, treatments, etc. that have (or haven't) worked for you. This is what I will continue to do and I will also continue to enjoy your little spats in future 8) John |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by LeLimey on Feb 10th, 2006, 4:31am Is there a thread you aren't going to mention colonic irrigation on? It is obviously hugely effective as the brown and tacky stuff is just spewing out of every orifice you have.. |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by maffumatt on Feb 10th, 2006, 8:47am after reading this thread I have come to the conclusion, my head hurts........... |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by jmorgan52 on Feb 10th, 2006, 8:57am on 02/10/06 at 04:31:03, LeLimey wrote:
I have mentioned the subject on only 3 threads so far, one of which I started myself. How can this possibly be construed as posting on every thread? I can mention it more if you like? Or maybe you could convince DJ to just kick me off the board if you feel I am hijacking your threads - I challenge you to make that happen! Should I take offence at your attitude to my postings? I think not. If you don't like my posting here then don't read them, or just keep on complaining - it's a free world. Maybe if people like you just shut up and ignore me then I wouldn't have to debate my position so much. I am sure you feel as stongly about your beliefs as I do about mine. That does not make you right. And for your information there are some here who agree with my thinking. If my advice works for just one person here apart from me then it is worth posting. But in the meantime feel free to listen, ignore or knock me - I really couldn't care less about your rude and ignorant viewpoint. John |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by Margi on Feb 10th, 2006, 10:02am Seriously, John? You've made your point. No need to attack people who have the right to disagree with you. For what it's worth, I do agree with your theories on cleansing for overall health (although I know you will agree that there is no cure yet for cluster headaches). I hope your pain freedom continues. |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by E-Double on Feb 10th, 2006, 10:05am I'm for whatever works as long as no one comes here trying to make a profit on the suffering. For what it is worth I do not see that nor have I seen that in the past with you John. My head hurts too Maffu ;) |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by sandie99 on Feb 10th, 2006, 10:07am Well, all I can say that my diet doesn't include sugar or alcohol, I eat lots of fresh fruits and vegetables every day, drink lots of water, exercise every day and take long walks every day. And ch has been in remission since April 2005. Best wishes & PF days to all, Sanna |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by Rock_Lobster on Feb 10th, 2006, 12:52pm on 02/10/06 at 10:07:33, sandie99 wrote:
Fock... I would rather have CH. ;) |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by seasonalboomer on Feb 10th, 2006, 1:31pm I think we should all finish our day today with the imagery associated with "colonic irrigation". Nothing more, no opinions, just think before we knock off tonight, a big slow thought about "colonnnnic irrrrrrigationnnnn". Sweet dream everybody. Scott |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by Dragnlance on Feb 10th, 2006, 10:12pm Quote:
ummmmm...... am I the ONLY one who didnt understand this?????? Dragn |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by The_CHosen_One on Feb 15th, 2006, 2:56am I came in here to actually read about the original topic of this thread, and all I see is a bunch of bickering and commentary, and very little actually relating to the original topic...does anyone follow topic, or is this just a place to spout off about our opiions of others? |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by Jasmyn on Feb 15th, 2006, 3:43am on 02/15/06 at 02:56:08, The_CHosen_One wrote:
Sorry about that. Back to the original topic. To be on a healthy diet and to clean your system(evacuation of the bowels) regularly is in general good and some people have claimed that it gives them a respite from a CH episode. There are however no scientific evidence to support this but if you ran out of options or not, it is in general good for your overall health and can maybe be beneficial regarding CH. Because each CH individual differ when it comes to reaction to treatments and medication, it can not be ruled out totally and it is still up to the individual. We do not know enough, even the professionals, to make any claims to cures. This is not a cure but if you are willing to try it, it would be appreciated to get some feedback as to the results. |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by Dragnlance on Feb 15th, 2006, 10:15am I agree with E-Double. If it works, USE it!! Anything that sends the monster into hiding is a good thing. All we can do is advise the rest of things that we are doing that seems to work, try to remember all the info, as one missing piece of the puzzle can alter the conclusion. Being humans, we will argue the point, good and bad, and make our own conclusions based on our own experiences and background knowledge. Some will accept it, some will not. While PH is not something that I can accept, as long as you are not selling some miricle cure, feel free to use it, post it, and keep us posted. I hope that it is not just a cycle that has ended that brought you pain free days. Reguardless, I love success stories and am glad you are pain free for now. Dragnlance |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by wildhaus on Feb 18th, 2006, 2:47am Hi to all... Its not about “Science” or “alternative” heeling methods, its about, dose it work for YOU or not… and brings us beck to the “Auto Conditioning - How I manage without drugs.” It is all about believing in the way you choose… And dealing with it… whether it is a diet (eating balanced… which by itself is a good thing), or any other alternative way. But to state it is a heeling for CH…” Quote: I have at last discovered a way to get rid of the beast. Balancing my body's ph“ if it works for you it cant get better…Dawerasie, I'm glad your cycle came to an early end. But to say Quote: it’s a major discovery… it takes more then a diet and a single expiriens to become a major discovery… We all try to get to terms with the CH and look (at times desperately) for methods to abort an attack or better even to cut short a cycle, Not that I know how one knows when a cycle is due to end… looked in a lot of publications and could not find any hint to the ability of foreseeing The end of a cycle. But on the other hand as a newbie there is still much to learn end find out… and all what’s called “Science” is NOT always right…or works! So if one thing works for you (Do tell us about it!!! But pls don’t call it a major discovery… its “turns me off” right there…..) It could work for others, but to see it as a NEW way of heeling.... You have to give me more then just a diet… And as I mentioned above its most likely to attribute to the “auto Conditioning” Or Uelis last new moon ;) instead of this diet…. The Psychic is a very complex and can (obviously) do wonders!!! Michael |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by sheff on Feb 20th, 2007, 8:45am I know this post is quite old and was characterised by bickering and abuse, but I found it and was very interested in it. The claim here isn't new at all (that there is a link between body acid levels and pain). The scientific community is divided on whether the body can hold too many acids, but maybe the old adage is true here: it works in practice but not in theory. There is a book in German about ph levels and CH. It was written by an elderly lady in about 2003 who noted (and weighed) the husband's food for over 20 years and analysed the results. She found old tales from the 19th and early twentieth centuries of migraine treatments based on reducing uric acid in the blood. She observed her husband's chronic CH in relation to his nutrition and devised a diet through which he became pain free. At the first sign of a CH the diet is turned on and the pain seemingly turned off. The diet consists of zeroing meat, tomoatoes, chocolate, fish, milk and dairy products and cereals and bread and caffeine for between 1 to 2 weeks. In this time, the diet consists mainly of potatoes, salad, apples and still water. Gradually, other items are introduced into the other diet. The "theory" is that once the body has rebalanced and got rid of the offending acids, the triggers (and all CH sufferers know them) no longer play a role in causing attacks. I aborted my episode this two years ago (after shrooms didn't really kick in) and am currently using the nutrition method on my present episode. The attacks have not disappeared in total, but are far less pronounced, reaching only kip 2 at the most. Until we received visitors for the weekend and I started eating normally again (there's nothing worse than fussy eaters!). After some scallops, a steak, chocolate cake and two beers I was hitting Kip 8. Visitors gone, and back on the potatoes they are back at Kip 2. Today there's just a shadow. Sure I want a steak and a beer, but I want CH less. This is non evidence based in a scientific way, just like everything that isn't medication based. But if it helps individuals and lessens their pain, then what the heck! |
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Title: Re: Clusters and ph Post by seasonalboomer on Feb 20th, 2007, 9:37am on 02/20/07 at 08:45:10, sheff wrote:
Reading through your post I suspect that the real answer is most likely focused on the part about the two beers. :-/ scott |
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