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        New Message Board Archives >> Jan-Mar 2004 >> Message from an outsider
        
(Message started by: Duke on Feb 13^th, 2004, 1:01pm)

Title: Message from an outsider
Post by Duke on Feb 13^th, 2004, 1:01pm

Hi, I don't suffer from CH but my brother-in-law does (episodic), which is what brought me to your site. I was curious to see if any of you were trying to cure yourself through a diet change.

I researched the whole site and did a 360 day search on the message board for the word "diet". Of only 57 hits there are a lot more references to diet Dr. Pepper than references to a change of diet. From the hits that actually did refer to a change of diet, I did not get the impression that CH'ers are up for trying to cure themselves of this curse through diet. If that is the case, I personally feel you are missing the boat on this one.

Based on my personal research and study, I can not convince myself that diet (mostly processed adulterated foods, even the water we drink is suspect) is not involved in the cause of your pain and agony.

About a year ago I started searching for better health on the web, 1 to 3 hours a night, reading everything (even the boring stuff). What I found opened my eyes and since then my wife and I have been making big changes in our diet and are seeing improvement in our health. Before we made any changes in our diet, I knew what we were doing and why we were doing it.

If anyone is interested, here are a few sites that are not politically correct, that might point you in a new direction and open your eyes as to how much diet effects your health in more ways than one.

http://www.mercola.com/
Just a few (of many) subjects to search: metabloic, insulin, coconut oil, vitamins, fats, aspartame, sugar, vaccines, msg, soy, milk, berries, cod liver oil, living fuel, EFT, raw eggs.

http://www.westonaprice.org/splash_2.htm
I read every article on this site.
Strongly suggest all articles under "Basic Nutrition".
Under "Health Issues" these articles, "Staying on Top of Oxidative Stress"; "Dietary Supplements...".
All articles under "Know Your Fats".
Under "Modern Foods" these articles, "Aspartame..."; "Toxins on your toast".
All articles under "Myths and Truths".

http://www.thedoctorwithin.com/
I read every article under "Chapters".
Strongly suggest these chapters, "The Doors of Perception..."; "Enzymes..."; "Minerals..."; "Sugar..."; "Vitamins...".

http://lef.org/magazine/mag2000/july2000_review.html
A review of Drug-Induced nutrient depletion handbook. This subject may sound trivial, yet is very informative.

http://www.notdoctors.com/tavis.html
Vitamins, what is real and what is a man made/synthetic and what is the synthetic made from. Good article.

http://www.notdoctors.com/tamis.html
Minerals, the same as vitamins above only about minerals, and just as good.

http://www.sweetpoison.com/aspartame-side-effects.html
Aspartame (artificial sweetner) is nasty stuff that wrecks havoc for some people.

http://www.price-pottenger.org/Articles/MSG.html
MSG is another nasty that wrecks havoc for some people.

http://www.truthinlabeling.org/index.html
More on MSG.

http://www.centerpointe.com/
A program you should know is out there. Look at the links on the home page. For a more in depth study about Holosync go to "Newsletter", then scroll to the bottom of page and click on "previous Mind Chatter editions" (I read them all).

They say ignorgance is bliss, I think that is a lie when it comes to the foods we eat.

It has also been said that the truth will set you free. But finding the truth takes time, energy and effort.

I hope a few of you will, hopefully even one of you, will venture on the internet journey I took in search of better health.

There is good information and bad information out there. It has been said that brillance is believing only half of what one reads, and genius is knowing which half to believe. Reason, logic and common sense are absolutely necessary tools to decipher the myriad of articles which address diet in relation to good health.

This is not a quick fix program, it is an investment of time, energy and effort working towards better health and hopefully a cure for your clusters.

CH'ers, I believe there are choices out there and the decision whether or not to seek out the knowledge between those choices is yours to make. I have great empathy for your suffering and would not wish your kind of demon on my worst enemy.

Respectfully, Doug

Title: Re: Message from an outsider
Post by bobkip on Feb 13^th, 2004, 1:15pm

Diet schmiet. I can assure you that most if not all clusterheads have explored the diet connection. The results were overwhelmongly neagative. Some do have sensativities to preservatives, MSG and the like but most do not.
Kip
BTW, This has been brought up in the past with a less than subtle pitch for a "cure", just send in the money.

Title: Re: Message from an outsider
Post by Mac on Feb 13^th, 2004, 1:19pm

Search the word "triggers". You'll be up to your yingyang in diet threads.

Title: Re: Message from an outsider
Post by ave on Feb 13^th, 2004, 1:38pm

What I'd like to know, does your brother in law subscribe to this diet? Does it help him?

That would be an argument to convince somebody.

Title: Re: Message from an outsider
Post by BruceD on Feb 13^th, 2004, 1:39pm

Yep, diet is where it's all at. Just to make sure that we don't mire our kids with my malady, we started 'em off right with genuine Gerber baby food - Texas style.

http://img8.photobucket.com/albums/v26/wannatikka/Clusterheads/PicanteSauce.jpg

Seriously, I've tried monitoring & modifying my diet over the years and nothing has worked. However, I find that O2 & verapamil work great for me. The only sure bet is that there's no sure fire cure all or cause all that works for everyone. You get what works for you ... stick with it until it stops working ... then look for something else.

Later
BruceD

Title: Re: Message from an outsider
Post by Kevin_M on Feb 13^th, 2004, 1:39pm

When it comes to CH, ignorance is NOT bliss. It will make one with CH VERY inquizzative, quite without option.
I was inquizzative as to why I read more than one paragraph. Thanks for all the painstaking hours of research you have gratefully done on our behalf and for our cause. However, touting that all of us here have missed the boat on this one, well, I will change my diet. My reading diet.
Yours is a hard stance to digest when you know nothing about anyone's eating diet they presently employ. But to say we all here are unconscious of diet and whatever purported relationship it may have to CH, well let's suffice to say you have infused upon us a higher plane of thought than any of us were capable of deducting.
'scoose the sarcasmic feeding habits.

Kevin M

Title: Re: Message from an outsider
Post by floridian on Feb 13^th, 2004, 1:51pm

Doug,

there has been lots of discussion about diet here. There are some people who are certain that diet doesn't affect them at all, others that are certain that specific foods or diets are triggers, and others (like me) that think diet probably plays a role, but aren't sure how. Changing diet has had good effect on my IBS and panic disorder. But I haven't figured out what diet would help with clusters. Magnesium deficiency is a problem in some cluster heads, and I take a magnesium supplement. N-3 fatty acids (fish oil, flax oil) might help dampen the inflammation and autonomic nervous system problems that occur in CH, and we have discussed that in the past. Choline is another nutritional factor I am interested in. Others complain about MSG and swear it is a trigger for them.

One of the things about cluster headaches is that the cluster "beast" is very clever (or the disease is complicated and varies from person to person). Try to generalize about clusters and you will immediately find a group of people that the generalization does not apply to. Because it comes and goes with various degrees of regularity, it is hard to say if something we do is helping, or its just random variation. Lots of pieces of information on the disease, but the big picture is not clear (especially in terms of the causes). I think doctors will be recommending dietary changes for clusters in the future, but that is just my personal prediction - what those will be, and when involves a guess.

As a group we are somewhat clannish and suspicious of outsiders. First posts are often greeted with suspicion. But I'm glad you found us and took time to interact with us. Is your brother in law here regularly?? If not, encourage him to drop by more often. And stick around yourself if you are so inclined.

Title: Re: Message from an outsider
Post by Lizzie2 on Feb 13^th, 2004, 1:57pm

From Dodick and Campbell's chapter on Cluster Headache in "Wolff's Headache and Other Head Pain":

Quote:

Allergies, food sensitivites, hormonal changes, and stress appear to play little part in the pathogenesis of cluster headache.

I believe what is meant by stress is that addition of stress to your life isn't what causes clusters...as stress is only recognized as a trigger in various forms for various types of headaches. But it's not a cause.

Diet has been shown to help a few people with migraine, but even then the success is extremely individual. At the headache center I go to, they don't put you on a special diet because they feel it is more important to map out your own triggers and find out what foods affect YOU. They are admitting the fact that there's no standard of diet triggers for every single person. Some headache centers put all headache patients on a tyramine free diet...I did this because of being on an MAOI...it caused me more stress!

I haven't looked through your articles, but a red flag are how many of these come from journals or are written by registered, clinical dietitians? There are a heck of a lot of false claims out there about diet these days. I worked in clinical nutrition for 3 years and also am currently in my 2nd class of nutrition in my current degree. A healthy, properly balanced diet can aid in general health, prevention of heart disease and certain types of cancer, and various other problems. However, this does not mean elimination of essential fats, carbohydrates, proteins, amino acids, water, vitamins, minerals, and other essential parts of our diet!

If a person does have a recognized food sensitivity, then I would recommend abstaining from that food, but to wipe out entire food groups or types of food is a little extreme. It's pointless to put yourself through the hell if there is no real benefit. Kudos to the people who have the desire and willpower to do this to themselves...but me...I eat what I want, when I want. My only recognized diet triggers are red wine, grape juice, and beer...when I find another food trigger, I'll cut it out.. But I'm not going to sit here and cut out everything I eat when it probably won't change my headaches. Then I'd just be grumpy and it would create a nice mood disorder for me! LOL

Good of you to keep trying to help your brother, however. Best of luck.
Lizzie

Title: Re: Message from an outsider
Post by forgetfulnot on Feb 13^th, 2004, 2:02pm

Nice post Doug, we have a few regulars that keep us up to date on most of this sort of thing in great detail. All I can say is, ya can't knock it if ya haven't tried it.
Lee

Title: Re: Message from an outsider
Post by Woobie on Feb 13^th, 2004, 3:05pm

on 02/13/04 at 13:01:14, Duke wrote:

Of only 57 hits there are a lot more references to diet Dr. Pepper than references to a change of diet.
Respectfully, Doug

That's ALLL Jean's fault.....

I TOLD her that shit was bad for her -

she does NOT listen!

Tina

Title: Re: Message from an outsider
Post by AlienSpaceGuy on Feb 13^th, 2004, 3:31pm

Sorry to say, Outsider, but you look like a real sucker to the billion dollar businesses of health- and wellness-scams. >:(

I strongly recommend that you go to

Quackwatch

Your Guide to Health Fraud, Quackery, and Intelligent Decisions (http://www.quackwatch.org/)

http://www.quackwatch.org/Gifs/qwlogo.gif

and study it as carefully as you did all the diet sites. This will help you to save a lots of money for useless diet frauds.

BTW, from which of the sites quoted should we order to increase your (pecuniary) wellness?

ASB

Title: Re: Message from an outsider
Post by cathy on Feb 13^th, 2004, 3:56pm

Hi, I don't suffer from CH but my brother-in-law does (episodic).... [smiley=laugh.gif] OMG and we thought it was you...I wonder what gave that away...

I was curious to see if any of you were trying to cure yourself through a diet change. Nope not one person here is interested in finding a cure and researching anything, we love clusterheadaches.

I researched the whole site ....Bugger me you must have been lurking for ages lol

blah blah blah blah blah.....

It has been said that brillance is believing only half of what one reads, and genius is knowing which half to believe
I hope I don't upset you when I tell you that's bullshit, thats just common sense...I should know, im a genius... ;;D

This is not a quick fix program[font=Verdana]sorry then we're not interested...[/font.

CH'ers, I believe there are choices out there and the decision whether or not to seek out the knowledge between those choices is yours to make. [smiley=wave.gif]

Respectfully, Doug

Retrospectfully ((sp) is there such a word..?) is it in the right context.. ::)

Quakers ROFLMAO..

Cathy

Hey Doug no disrespect intended but Yawnnnnn zzzzzzzzzzzzz

Title: Re: Message from an outsider
Post by Brian_Y on Feb 13^th, 2004, 5:06pm

O my GOD, it's a COOKBOOK!!! It's a COOKBOOK!!!!!

ARRRRGFGFFGFHJGFJFHJ!!!!!

I give you:

My diet.

http://images.allposters.com/images/IMPACT/2365.jpg

Title: Re: Message from an outsider
Post by PatFan on Feb 13^th, 2004, 5:06pm

Missed the boat huh?
You've probably never even had a headache that feels a tenth as bad as CH, or else you would never make an idiotic statement like that. You think we want this pain? Of course, if you make changes in your diet for the better, you will be healthier, you and your wife should be commended for coming up with that one...good job.
How's your brother respond after a Kip 10 with you telling him he has missed the boat. It's the same ol thing, when someone says they have a headache, everyone "thinks" they can relate....BULLSHIT. This isn't your typical "MSG gives me a headache" problem.

Title: Re: Message from an outsider
Post by Opus on Feb 13^th, 2004, 6:37pm

I have cut a lot out of diet to stop migraines, and it works, it did nothing for the clusters, my two known clusters triggers are sleep and relaxation, should I get rid of those, Of course I do or the Beast will remove them for me. The worst part about having Clusters and Migraines, is that smoking and drinking coffee helps kill the clusters , but then trigger a migraine.

Opus/Paul

Title: Re: Message from an outsider
Post by eyes_afire on Feb 13^th, 2004, 6:52pm

Hi Duke,
I don't doubt that eating healthy can only be beneficial for everyone. But I don't quite understand this statement:

Quote:

Based on my personal research and study, I can not convince myself that diet (mostly processed adulterated foods, even the water we drink is suspect) is not involved in the cause of your pain and agony.

Perhaps you can help me out. The reasons I don't understand this statement are:

1. Cluster headaches are extremely rare. If food was a CAUSE, then why are they so rare? Surely I've eaten much healthier than many people I know.

2. How can this harmful food be so specific as to effect one facial nerve with extreme pain at the exact same time every day for 1 or 2 hours while leaving all other nerves unaffected? I have never heard of biological toxicity yielding such specific symptoms.

3. How can you explain the remissions when there is no diet change?

I'm not trying to be difficult. Diet has been a common topic here and I'm always left wondering that if food is a true CAUSE, then how can the 3 issues mentioned above be explained?

--- Steve

Title: Re: Message from an outsider
Post by Mac on Feb 13^th, 2004, 6:58pm

Hey Doug.Where are you? If your having trouble putting your reply into words have your "cured" brother-in-law tell us how his clusters were miraculously cured by your diet regime. We want to be cured despite what some people would post. I suspect we won't be hearing from you(or your "brother-in-law")

Title: Re: Message from an outsider
Post by pubgirl on Feb 13^th, 2004, 6:58pm

I shall keep this brief.

Certain foods possibly a cycle trigger, possible

Food a CAUSE of CH?

Bollocks

Love

Wendy

Title: Re: Message from an outsider
Post by Prense on Feb 13^th, 2004, 7:19pm

Damn, we are like a swarm of bees when it comes to posts like this. I am proud of all the bit tounges in the replys though.

If nothing else, I am entertained... ;;D

Chris

Title: Re: Message from an outsider
Post by Charlie on Feb 13^th, 2004, 11:20pm

It ain't food. Never was. MSG and liquor ain't food.

Not going though all that. Trust us. We know.

What's going on here? This is the 2nd stupid thread. I love it.

Charlie

Title: Re: Message from an outsider
Post by Kevin_M on Feb 13^th, 2004, 11:43pm

on 02/13/04 at 18:52:35, eyes_afire wrote:

I'm not trying to be difficult. Diet has been a common topic here and I'm always left wondering that if food is a true CAUSE, then how can the 3 issues mentioned above be explained?

--- Steve

I like the adequate words with which you were able to to state plain facts with a straight slant on the subject and validate the crux of the conversation.

Kevin M

Title: Re: Message from an outsider
Post by don on Feb 14^th, 2004, 12:10am

Diet?

Try swallowing this,

There is no known cure.

How'd that taste?

Title: Re: Message from an outsider
Post by Kevin_M on Feb 14^th, 2004, 12:41am

on 02/14/04 at 00:10:17, don wrote:

Diet?

Try swallowing this,

There is no known cure.

How'd that taste?

And yet the facts can be stated succinctly plainer.

Funny good one.

Kevin M

Title: Re: Message from an outsider
Post by Cerberus on Feb 14^th, 2004, 1:03am

Quote:

I like the adequate words with which you were able to to state plain facts with a straight slant on the subject and validate the crux of the conversation.

Kevin M

LMMFAO!!!!!!

Quote:

Diet?

Try swallowing this,

There is no known cure.

How'd that taste?

And yet the facts can be stated succinctly plainer.

Funny good one.

Kevin M

LMMFAOROTFL!!!!!! [smiley=crackup.gif]

Ramon