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        New Message Board Archives >> Jan-Mar 2003 >> Look’s like it’s BANKRUPTCY for me.
        
(Message started by: SommelierCH on Mar 3^rd, 2003, 8:53pm)

Title: Look’s like it’s BANKRUPTCY for me.
Post by SommelierCH on Mar 3^rd, 2003, 8:53pm

Can you say…LOSER.

It seems like every bad financial decision I’ve made since 1989 (which I guess is EVERY financial decision) has come back to haunt me en mass, in the last 2 months. I feel the walls closing in, and the oxygen being sucked out.

In a weird way, the one thing that is keeping me on a somewhat level emotional ground, is the thought that “I’m a Clusterhead, this is really nothing in the whole scheme of things”. Who would ever think that being a Clusterhead, could be a positive, motivating factor? I guess I see that “the glass is half full” (But, who the hell drank my other half?).

I meet with the lawyer on Friday, just wondering if anyone has any tips for me. Obviously with the levy on my wages by the IRS, and the other things that showed up, (like moving my Mother to CA, when she had Alzheimer’s, losing the “primary residence status” of our family house we sold, back in MO) are too complicated to go into here, so I’m kind of asking about any general advice, you might be able to give me.

Thanks for letting me vent, thanks for being here,
David J.

Title: Re: Look’s like it’s BANKRUPTCY for me
Post by brain_cramps on Mar 3^rd, 2003, 9:15pm

Somm:

I wish I had some advice re: bankruptcy, but I'm battling RevenueCanada not IRS.

good luck
grant

Title: Re: Look’s like it’s BANKRUPTCY for me
Post by tanner on Mar 3^rd, 2003, 9:41pm

david j , say it ain't so......
or at least take that loser shit out of your vocabulary. i've read your posts, i've witnessed your support .
i wish i had concrete pre-filing advice for you but not knowing the particulars there is not much i can offer. lin and i see this in our future because of clusters. i am trying to move things around and own outright the kinds of things that will not be attached by the courts. at the same time we are keeping our revolving credit alive and well so that when the bloodsuckers come there will be some blood to find!

i wish you all the best and will send all the good juju i can manage................tim

Title: Re: Look’s like it’s BANKRUPTCY for me.
Post by Frank on Mar 3^rd, 2003, 9:59pm

I filed for bankruptcy in 1992. I did very well with finances for several years but divorce in 1984, moving to Alaska in 1989 (and being un-employed for a year), moving back to California in 1990, having a baby in 1992, getting screwed by the guy who rented my house during 89-90, and running up $20,000 on the credit cards... did me in.
Here's some advice:
_ If there is anyway to work out a payment plan with your creditors (including the IRS), do it. Generally, you will have to make the same offer to all creditors. Ask ALL of the credit card companies to give you 7% interest (for example). Explain that you will have to file for bankruptcy if they won't work with you.
- If they won't work with you, then you have to do it (I felt better knowing that I at least tried, but there were a couple of not a very nice person creditors out there who just would not work with me).
-If you own a home, file a "Declaration of Homestead"... FIRST, before filing bankruptcy.
- Don't pay a $300/hour lawyer. Find a paralegal service or bankruptcy help center that will ask you questions, fill out the papers, and file them for you for $300 total.
- Don't ask a lawyer to go to court for you (also costs $$$)... go In Pro Per.
- If you own a house or a car and want to keep them, keep paying. You also need to keep paying your utility bills. Beyond that... fuck everybody... the VISA, Mastercard, Columbia House CD Club, Sears, Home Depot, everybody... except the IRS. You don't want any creditor to find out that you gave another creditor "preferential treatment"... the Court won't like it either... House payment or rent, utilities, and one (lowest) car payment excepted.
- You can also deal with the IRS. The have a program where if you owe so much in taxes that you can never get out... you can offer what you can pay. I believe it is called something like "Offer in Compromise". You make a written proposal (what you can afford) and explain the circumstances... and they either approve it, offer a counter proposal, or deny your offer.
- When filling out the forms, you have to list your assets. They are not looking for your dishes, clothes, etc... They want to know what you have that is worth taking and selling for big $$$. Be conservative. The general rule of thumb is, what could you sell an item for at a garage sale if you had to sell it in one day... but,
- If you bought a 50" plasma TV ($9,000) on a credit card within the past 30-60 days ... you're going to have to give it up. I ended up losing only a leased car (secured loan)... nothing else.
- Once you file (if you have to)... if a listed creditor contacts you again... tell them you filed BK, your case number, and what Court. After that it is illegal for them to contact you again until the case is final (and if discharge of your debt to them was approved... they can't contact you later either).
Your credit will suck for 10 years. I still own the same house I had then, I have paid off two cars, and have a VISA card with a $500 limit... so it ain't all that bad.

Title: Re: Look’s like it’s BANKRUPTCY for me
Post by CathiP on Mar 3^rd, 2003, 10:04pm

David- I know it sounds like it sucks, but, as a realtor, let me tell you what I know....
I have closed home purchases on people who are a scant 12 months out of BK....I have also had clients be denied a home loan when they have gone for reorganization, have repaid every dime, but, due to complterely explainable(and documented) unforseen circumstances, have been 15 days late on their scheduled(court ordered) repayment plan- this caused their loan to crash & burn. Moral, go for the \protection, but you will be better off, in the long run, if you do not do the reorg......I can NEVER remember which is a 13, or 11, or 7-they're all BK's to me.
As to the gigantic L you think you need to wear.....nuh- uh, bud...you just don't strike me as a man who irresponsibly purchases everything he wants, knowing that you'll simply file in BK court, and slither out of it.......your sitch sounds like it is far from that, David...so, all I can add here is this:
Hold your head high
Be sure you have a great attorney
Push onward- this, too, shall pass
Be active in the WHATS & the HOWS of your BK
Take this fresh start..
Now, LOSER no longer fits into your vocab- got it?
Have a PF night......PM me if you need a friend..
Cathi

Title: Re: Look’s like it’s BANKRUPTCY for me.
Post by cootie on Mar 3^rd, 2003, 10:16pm

David J. your no loser !! My dad did the bankrupsy thing years ago after a devorse....he bought a new house and
vehicles and had credit cards with lower credit limits but he did ok for himself. A guy at Brad's shop filed also and has a brand new vehicle and nice furniture and everything. I'm not bein much help to ya but at least it's not bad news ! Hang in there.......Pam-Coots

Title: Re: Look’s like it’s BANKRUPTCY for me.
Post by ShariRae on Mar 3^rd, 2003, 10:39pm

David...
We all have situations that come upon us unforseen and bite us in the ass. I am sure the term "loser" is one that is soooooo unappropriate for you. You just ended up in a situation that overwhelmed you. No sin there hon...happens everyday to great people just like yourself,especially in these uncertain times. Hold your head up and do what ya gotta do & then move on. Use this chance to start anew.
Best to you & yours
Shari

Title: Re: Look’s like it’s BANKRUPTCY for me
Post by Jarvis on Mar 3^rd, 2003, 10:45pm

LLLL..er- David nope I cant say it..... I'm sure your lawyer will advise you properly... Look at it this way, Its only money and theres much more where that came from.. Bankruptcy was designed for these times. Its not a bad thing, it's a good thing. It allows you to overcome issues that you may or may not have had any control over. Its a second chance. .... On the IRS, wait untill in bankruptcy and then negotiate payments. They will be willing to settle for minimal amounts per month if you all talk, but you cant lose the levies. . The glass was once full, half got spilled and the courts allow free refills. The education is priceless. Thousands file bancruptcy every month in the U.S. your not alone. ... . Its an emotional but pain free process. I was there in the mid eighties. I had lost control over a business I had then which I try to blame on a massive 3 year cluster bout. ... . But there is no blame just relief. . Its a tremendous relief when the financial burdens are lifted and you get that 2nd chance. I have done well since and only make half the mistakes I made then.

Title: Re: Look’s like it’s BANKRUPTCY for me.
Post by notseinfeld on Mar 3^rd, 2003, 10:55pm

David, there's a life motto that may be helpful here and it states: "we're only responsible for effort, not results". If you've done the best with a situation in an honest and moral way, there's no shame, and no visit to Loserville. Perhaps the biggest L's in our society are those that get undeserved results after putting in NO effort.
<p>
The IRS is the destroyer of more lives and families than can be counted any more in the US. I hope you'll take a minute and read through this: www.fairtax.org.

It should be noted that the cost of government to an individual in this country amounts to MORE than the cost of their housing, transportation, clothing and food COMBINED! Disgusting. I for one could surely handle my mortgage and CC's far easier if the IRS monkey got off my back.

best wishes and I'm sorry I could not be more constructive in a pragmatic way for ya.

nots

Title: Re: Look’s like it’s BANKRUPTCY for me
Post by Jarvis on Mar 3^rd, 2003, 11:01pm

David if its a fairly simple personal BK, Frank knows what he's talking about. Then no lawyers are needed after the initial consult. . Well put frank. .You can get the papers at any good office supply.

Title: Re: Look’s like it’s BANKRUPTCY for me.
Post by Roxy on Mar 4^th, 2003, 2:07am

David,

I'm really sorry you are facing some tough times right now....but, in no way are you a loser. These things happen in life, and in your case it sounds like no ones fault....just a compilation of events that were uncontrollable. Then shit like that just starts snowballing. You can work through it.....as was said before....this is what bankruptcy was established for....not those who want to sneak by and get out of their debts.

Keep that head held up high......the bad times will pass quicker than you think. Take care,

Tracey

Title: Re: Look’s like it’s BANKRUPTCY for me.
Post by ave on Mar 4^th, 2003, 2:55am

David, whatever happens remember not WHAT you are (somebody with a business, that went wrong somehow)
but WHO you are, quirky clusterhead David, with lots of friends.

In terms of practical advice, laws are a bit different here but Franks advice is excellent, TAKE IT!

I am sure things wil work out fine in the end.

Title: Re: Look’s like it’s BANKRUPTCY for me.
Post by catlind on Mar 4^th, 2003, 3:28am

David I am so sorry to hear of your situation :(

I wish I had information to offer, but the only bankruptcy information I know is about Canadian bankruptcy. My ex and I ended up there and with a stroke of a pen all our debts were gone, including both our cars, but we got to keep our house (which we ended up losing anyway because my ex lost his job).

Know that you have all the family support and care that you could possibly want right here at clusterville.

Wishing you all the best of luck, and know that better times are around the corner.

Cat

Title: Re: Look’s like it’s BANKRUPTCY for me.
Post by Mark C on Mar 4^th, 2003, 8:36am

Sorry about the plight David,
You ain't no loser by the way.....as far as bankruptcy....been there and done that and survived. It's like any other shit storm...time brings it in perspective. Still....it ain't no fun!

on 03/03/03 at 20:53:46, SommelierCH wrote:

I’m a Clusterhead, this is really nothing in the whole scheme of things

FUCKENH!

Hang in there Dave,
Mark

Title: Re: Look’s like it’s BANKRUPTCY for me
Post by Hound_Dogg on Mar 4^th, 2003, 1:28pm

Dave...

Can't explain much about Bankruptcy...But I can tell you, this is what it's there for.

It's a Consumers "Get out of Jail, Free" card. So if your in a severe financial bind, don't think of yourself as a "loser". The losers are the people making Hundred's of thousand's of dollars a year, who decied they want to keep their casinos and beach properties...so they declare Bankruptcy.

Good Luck...a lot of us have been there.

Jim

Title: Re: Look’s like it’s BANKRUPTCY for me.
Post by cathy on Mar 4^th, 2003, 7:12pm

:-/......Dave Im sorry your having a rough time at the moment, but you are no loser....like some of the others have said, hold your head up high and hang in there....things will get better....sending you good vibes and postive energy.....wish I could do more...

Cathy :)

Title: Re: Look’s like it’s BANKRUPTCY for me.
Post by SommelierCH on Mar 4^th, 2003, 7:51pm

Wowie Zowie,
It feels like I have a whole platoon, circling the wagons with me. (yea, I know, that’s kind of a mixed metaphor, but it feels right). That feeling of hollow inevitability and failure has abated, and I am now looking forward to starting a fresh life (with only half the mistakes, like Jarvis).

Thank you all for taking the time to write. Frank, thank you so much, that’s the nuts and bolts advice I really needed. No one really talks about their bankruptcy, so I had no where to turn. Since I rent, have no new major possessions and haven’t had good credit for several years, the only thing that they can take are my wages (which are just now starting to turn upwards since 9/11, I work on commission). I guess that means that I’ll have to drink wine under the table.

You really helped me, this family ROCKS, thanks everybody,
David J.

Title: Re: Look’s like it’s BANKRUPTCY for me.
Post by pimmony on Mar 7^th, 2003, 3:58am

My dear, I have been away for a long time and revisited because of the wonderful mails and support I am getting with heartwarming regularity from a very lovely lady.

I am so sorry to read about your troubles. I know nothing of American law on this subject but my late partner and I went through the hoops of bankruptsy in Britain and the one piece of advice I took to heart and acted on was that I needed to divorce myself from any emotive reaction to creditors, to make a deal with the preferred creditors, like tax, and concentrate then on what I needed to do to come out from under.

I lost my home, my lifestyle and everything I thought that I needed to live - credit cards, car etc etc. I do miss them (grin) but thing is I have found something so much more precious in the people who stuck with me, well - the one person (the others were gold digging clingers and false friends who obviously hung about because I was well off). I do not need all those trappings of wealth, they really do not mean that much in the end but the person who believes in you, who immediately knows you have value beyond the platinum card, well that is true riches.

Smile, we lived on baked beans on toast for months you know ... it really is possible.

I know you are a good, kind and warm person from the way you have dealt with me. I wish there was more than words I could offer.

Title: Re: Look’s like it’s BANKRUPTCY for me.
Post by pamc on Mar 7^th, 2003, 11:32am

Making unwise financial decisions does not make you a loser. You're not the first person to file, you won't be the last, and I may be following closely in your foot steps... as soon as I stop racking up debt.

Talking to a lawyer will be good. My father's one and he advised me not to file until I stop making medical bills... which is god knows when. There are also support groups like Debtors Anonymous which can provide support.

Good luck. You're not alone. We'll get through this.