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        Daily Chat >> General Posts >> What HAPPENED?
        
(Message started by: ClusterChuck on May 17^th, 2008, 10:14am)

Title: What HAPPENED?
Post by ClusterChuck on May 17^th, 2008, 10:14am

What ever happened to doing an honest day’s work, for an honest day’s salary? Have we gotten so bloated, with a relatively easy life, that people are unaccustomed to performing actual WORK?

I have been trying for the past nine months, or so, to hire a crew of people that I can depend on. So far, I have only gotten one guy, and he is ALMOST as old as I am! The other four I want, to round out my crew, are worthless. I keep hiring, but then have to fire, and I HATE to fire people, even if they are complete idiots!

These guys get a company vehicle, we supply their tools, there is PLENTY of overtime available, and we pay a decent wage. When we are out on the road, and I am with them, I usually supply all their meals.

All I ask is that they work, follow instructions, and then be PROUD of what they have built. Is that too much to ask? I don’t think I am a tyrant; all I ask is that you do what I tell you to do, the way I tell you too. If you have an idea of a better way, or different way of doing it, then talk to me about it. I am the first to admit I don’t know everything. Maybe some one can come up with a better way. But, ASK me first! I may have a reason why I am having the work done my way. It drives me nuts when I walk in and find my instructions were ignored!

And whatever happened to the concept of showing up (at least to CLOSE to on time) every day for work?

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr !! !! !! !!

I guess I will have to quit being such an not a very nice person.

Sorry I just had to get that off my chest before I commit murder! (But hopefully, I can plead “justifiable homicide”!)

Any one know a good bail bondsman?

Chuck

Title: Re: What HAPPENED?
Post by midwestbeth on May 17^th, 2008, 10:25am

I completely understand your frustration Chuck!!!

16 years in business and I can count on one hand the number of employees that understood the concept of showing up on time (if at all) and putting in a days work for the money they were being paid.

Beth

Title: Re: What HAPPENED?
Post by BarbaraD on May 17^th, 2008, 10:45am

OVERTIME!! What the hell are you thinking??? You expect someone to work OVERTIME!! Don't you know they might have OTHER plans? :-X

I'm with you Chuck... I don't know what's happened to work ethics. Everyone seems to want a paycheck but don't want to earn it and don't give a damn how the work they actually do comes out.

Heck, when I was a kid I worked at JC Penney's and if I'd acted like some of these "cashier's" do at Walmart's today - I'd have been fired on the spot. But we were there to "help" the customer and the "customer" was always "right" - regardless if they were an a-hole. We weren't even on commission, but we competed to see who could sell the most... it was a "pride" thing. And we "learned" to deal with people.

Since I've been grown, I've mostly had my own business and I have no qualms about firing people who don't perform to my standards. I sign the paychecks and as long as I'm paying - we're playing MY way.

One little girl who worked for me from the time she got out of high school until I closed my office came to visit me a few weeks ago and actually "thanked" me for being such a "B". She went to work for a company that "insisted" on things being done "correctly". She said if I hadn't insisted on business letters being done "right" she'd never have known what they were talking about and she'd probably have been fired the first day. But she was one of the few who actually "learned".

I don't know what to tell you. I'm just glad I don't have to deal with employees any more. I seem to get more done with less hassel just doing it myself.

Hugs BD

Title: Re: What HAPPENED?
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on May 17^th, 2008, 11:12am

I hear that Chuck. I HATE employees......and just about every business owner I audit says the same thing.

Its like people want you to pay them money to do what they feel like doing, not what needs to be done.

and proud of your work.............man, you are being an a$$hole to expect that!

Title: Re: What HAPPENED?
Post by Paul98 on May 17^th, 2008, 11:25am

I agree with you Chuck!

When I ran the lab it was a nightmare to try and find people that would work, show up on time or show up at all. Work is a joke for a lot of people! Just the interviews were a wake up. Who the heck shows up LATE for a job interview? 80% did! These were college students.

I really feel that life has just gotten to easy. Food is always on the plate, never worry about sewing a shirt or pants because you just buy new.

During the deperssion people did not know where their next meal was coming from and even prior to that period. You didn't work....you starved. Not any more. 95% of Americian society dosn't know what it is like to go for days without food. Compare today with 1940. Look at the houses people lived in, look at posessions then and now. Even the poorest have TV, AC, computers...... The TV program the Honey Mooners with Jacki Gleason was a very good example of how lower middle class lived and what they had back then.

I learned quick when I hired folks that if they were not to the second or early for an interview, I just told them they are late and go look some place else. Oh the pissing and whining I got! I was only 10 min late Bla bla bla.

Life is to easy and the true experience of hardship has been lost for 50 years for most. I got lucky and learned quick what going without food for days was like. To this day I will clean toilets for $ to eat. Thankfully I can do better.

-P.

Title: Re: What HAPPENED?
Post by M.R. on May 17^th, 2008, 11:25am

There is no such thing as personal resposibility any more. If something goes wrong, or if life just sucks in general, it must be some one elses fault. That means I can sue. Some one needs to wipe my ass for me now!

Mike

Title: Re: What HAPPENED?
Post by LeLimey on May 17^th, 2008, 11:40am

on 05/17/08 at 11:25:52, M.R. wrote:

And thereby lies the problem.

Too many parents have made too many excuses for their kids for too long. Instead of chastising they come up with a pile of crap reasons as to why their kids are "misunderstood" so the little darlings expect excuses to be made for them their whole lives long.

Title: Re: What HAPPENED?
Post by Brew on May 17^th, 2008, 11:46am

It's the one and only reason I said no to management some 20 years ago. I cannot fathom being responsible for someone else's performance.

The number of people who report to me is zero, and I like it that way.

Title: Re: What HAPPENED?
Post by Langa on May 17^th, 2008, 12:18pm

Pride in your work??? = Things done half-assed in my opinion. I'm so glad I am not in management anymore.

Langa

Title: Re: What HAPPENED?
Post by nani on May 17^th, 2008, 1:02pm

I've been in and out of management positions for the last 30 years.
Frankly, I haven't found this to be the case. I'd have to say that 98% of the people I managed were great employees.

I only had to fire someone for performance once. The rest of the time, peer pressure either got the person on track or gave them a reason to leave on their own.

Title: Re: What HAPPENED?
Post by Cathi_Pierce on May 17^th, 2008, 1:31pm

Chuck, you big bully! You're the boss, you get to sit on your ever-expanding arse and bully those poor guys around, making them slave for lesss than a millionaires salary, and you want them to put in OVERTIME???? :oYou is the lowest kinda slave manager............and, next, I spose you're gonna tell me they can't use their cell phones except at breaks.......and they'll have to watch soap operas on their own time............
WHYIOTTA!
Gil is so chomping at the bit. He retires next July. His job consists of trying to deal with entry-level salaries-so, he gets entry level employees, but Corporate slams Gil for not having responsible, caring, enthusiastic people! Most are relegated to part-time employment...so no bennies are necessary..........and you want these guys to CARE?
By this time next, if all goes well, we will be sitting in our new home at the Oregon Coast, where 'off to work" for Gil, will be crabbing for our dinner!

Sorry, Chuck, we don't have a clue what you're dealing with..............but we wish you luck!!!!

Cathi

Title: Re: What HAPPENED?
Post by Brew on May 17^th, 2008, 1:35pm

on 05/17/08 at 13:02:14, nani wrote:

Yours is the exception, not the rule.

Title: Re: What HAPPENED?
Post by Mosaicwench on May 17^th, 2008, 1:44pm

I think I need to get a job . . . I'd work for you any day Chuckie, but the commute would kill me!

I'm every employer's dream - articulate, polite, punctual, and willing to go above and beyond. And I haven't earned a paycheck in 16 years . . . .

Maybe when Jrbrew gets his driver's license I can go back to contributing to our retirement . . . .

Edited to remove the Fruedian slip . . .

Title: Re: What HAPPENED?
Post by notseinfeld on May 17^th, 2008, 5:51pm

Having been a boss and having had a boss the mantra for me these days is:
I don't want to have a boss and I don't want to be a boss.

If however you're having to build a <ahem> team it might be wise to hear what Dave Ramsey has to say about his business infrastructure. He somehow retains good people who never want to leave and experiences monthly growth. If I had a link I'd surely supply one--sorries!

Title: Re: What HAPPENED?
Post by M.R. on May 17^th, 2008, 5:57pm

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,356505,00.html

I rest my case. Sometimes, bad shit happens. It isn't always some ones fault. May be we should sue the parents for allowing their kid to play baseball.

Mike

Title: Re: What HAPPENED?
Post by Charlie on May 17^th, 2008, 8:02pm

My relatives were young men and women during the depression. They made a nice enough living fixing things or selling the parts to do so...of course they lost and bought back the business and house a couole of times back then. Anyway, some things don't fit in an overtime situation. No one worked longer or harder than my father and grandfather. You couldn't depend on full weekends back then...things came up every now and then that needed attention. They had stag parties for the crew now and then as a thank you for the extra work. They were fun. No overtime was asked.

Things ain't the same. You can't get change for a buck at the stores unless someone buys something so the drawer is open....sad effen times and goodwill went out the window when people get fired for any deviation from guidelines or policy. Discretion or initiative is taboo. No one has to be responsible that way.

Charlie

Title: Re: What HAPPENED?
Post by George_J on May 17^th, 2008, 8:08pm

Fortunately, we haven't had to deal with much of this.

EJ's business has only had one employee--their office manager--and she's been a very useful and hardworking person. 'Course it helps, I think, that they pay a very fair hourly rate for part-time work, and insisted on getting the best person they could find.

On the other hand, they've had a couple of interns who were basically furniture, or worse...to the extent that they've asked the local university not to send them any more interns.

Due to the nature of their business, they seem to use more contractors than anything else. Archaeologists, cartographers, graphic artists, etc. In many ways, it's an ideal relationship--if they perform well, they get future contracts. If they don't, they're not asked back. EJ and her partner have had good and bad relationships with contractors.

Obviously, using contractors is not something that will work for everyone, but it's worked out pretty well for them so far--with a few notable exceptions.

Best wishes,

George

Title: Re: What HAPPENED?
Post by jimmers on May 17^th, 2008, 8:18pm

When I had my own business, I always tried to make sure potential employees were married, had kids or both. They will usually tell you that sometime in the interview process. It is illegal to ask that question.

They have built in responsibilities already and seem more willing to work and LEARN!!!!!!!

Don't get me wrong, I had some pretty good young conscientious employees, but they are extremely hard to find.

And payday was always on Monday, that way I knew everyone would show up for work after the weekend
::)

Jimmers

Title: Re: What HAPPENED?
Post by DonnaH_again on May 17^th, 2008, 10:32pm

For a minute there, I thought you all lived in Florida 8)

Title: Re: What HAPPENED?
Post by zwibbs/Scott on May 18^th, 2008, 9:10am

In this day and age all people are interested in is what coverage they will get--how many personal days, and how many vacation days. Is it any wonder why very little is PRODUCED in this country anymore.

Title: Re: What HAPPENED?
Post by debOUCH on May 18^th, 2008, 9:14am

i see most of the problems in the younger generation, agreeing with helen......................itherein lies the faults with the parents who just keep giving, giving , giving..............my children have both worked since 14, and contnue to do so now, even while going to college..........majority of their friends do not have to work! thus who's fault!! They both even work for me for extra $, , in addition to reg jobs.WHY? BECAUSE I CANT GET HELP ON WEEKENDS.........they dont want to ruin their social life...........---- that!! YOU GOTTA C THE PEOPLE THAT COME TO THE TASTING ROOM LOOKING FOR A JOB!!!! unbelievable....................FYI..............ckout vineyard48winery.com!!

Title: Re: What HAPPENED?
Post by zwibbs/Scott on May 18^th, 2008, 9:41am

Debouch that looks great--How far isa it from New Rochelle ?

Title: Re: What HAPPENED?
Post by debOUCH on May 18^th, 2008, 9:46am

haha..........it is almost to Orient Point on the North Fork...............25 minutes from Orient!!! I live in Holbrook, exit 62 on LIE, and it is 40 miles from me!!!! PS.................i LOVE my job!!!! if i didnt wouldnt be there....................gta have a passion for what u do!!!