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        Daily Chat >> General Posts >> For some to reflect and some to refract.
        
(Message started by: Ghost on Feb 29^th, 2008, 9:07am)

Title: For some to reflect and some to refract.
Post by Ghost on Feb 29^th, 2008, 9:07am

Peaceful Surrender

Parts of the whole some will not see,
A start to the finish some cannot be.

Night time sneaks in as day light surrenders,
such violence in beauty such a peaceful surrender.

To seek torture and pain to you may be strange,
Following love after hate to others deranged.

Daylight takes over as night fights to stay.
No beauty in battle such a peaceful surrender.

A new life in the midst of all this hatred and pain,
Proof there is beauty that some still can see.

Total eclipse on a bright sunny day,
all stop in awe and peaceful surrender.

Mike
2/29/08

Title: Re: For some to reflect and some to refract.
Post by Ghost on Feb 29^th, 2008, 9:49am

Thanks Annette I appreciate the rewrite.
:-X

Mike

Title: Re: For some to reflect and some to refract.
Post by LeLimey on Feb 29^th, 2008, 9:59am

I read peaceful surrender and thought it was going to be in French ::)

I think it's lovely Goatie, pm it to Melly so she doesn't miss it, it's a lovely way to Mark Ava's entrance into the world :)

Title: Re: For some to reflect and some to refract.
Post by DennisM1045 on Feb 29^th, 2008, 10:10am

Well done Mike. Thanks as always for sharing...

-Dennis-

Title: Re: For some to reflect and some to refract.
Post by karma on Feb 29^th, 2008, 10:16am

Annette,
If I may be so bold as to make a suggestion?
Dump your post. Rewriting anothers work is just........ well you figure it out.

Title: Re: For some to reflect and some to refract.
Post by Ghost on Feb 29^th, 2008, 10:17am

on 02/29/08 at 09:23:44, Annette wrote:

Who Will Surrender ?

Parts of the whole some dont want to see,
A start to finish some dont want to be.

Night time forces in if day light surrenders,
Such violence will prevail if one surrenders.

Some enjoy torture and pain, indeed very strange,
No love all hatred... very much deranged.

Day light takes over as night fights to stay,
No beauty in battle if one is to surrender.

A new life in the midst of all this hatred and pain,
There is always beauty but some will not see.

Total eclipse on a bright sunny day,
Who will fight on and who will surrender ?

Annette
03/01/2008

Just for properity sake.

some day I hope to aspire to such greatness.

Mike

Title: Re: For some to reflect and some to refract.
Post by nani on Feb 29^th, 2008, 10:34am

I like your poem, sweetie. :-* Just the way it is.

love and hugs, mom

Title: Re: For some to reflect and some to refract.
Post by sandie99 on Feb 29^th, 2008, 10:37am

I loved it, thank you for sharing it, Mike! :)

Sanna

Title: Re: For some to reflect and some to refract.
Post by Linda_Howell on Feb 29^th, 2008, 2:48pm

Quote:

Just for properity sake.

some day I hope to aspire to such greatness.

Mike

You're far too kind. :-[

I loved your poem Mike.

Title: Re: For some to reflect and some to refract.
Post by artonio7 on Feb 29^th, 2008, 3:17pm

Beautifully written Mike... You have the incredible gift of stirring emotions.

Thanks for sharing this.

with warm regards,
Tony

Title: Re: For some to reflect and some to refract.
Post by brewcrew on Feb 29^th, 2008, 3:58pm

on 02/29/08 at 09:23:44, Annette wrote:

Annette - Would you mind explaining to the rest of us why you felt the need to do this?

Title: Re: For some to reflect and some to refract.
Post by Annette on Feb 29^th, 2008, 3:59pm

Mike, I love you poem. Dont get me wrong. :)

I wasnt rewriting it. In Chinese literature there is an art called " Poetry reflecting " where you "answer" the writer or give a different view by using some of the original verses but expressing a different view/opinion of the subject.

You used the poem to "talk " to us / me so I "talked" back to you using the same medium. Simply a way to express different view, definitely not to dismiss or rewrite our poem at all.

In Chinese society this is considered the most polite way of communication, ie using the same medium that was chosen by the person to respond back. Unfortunately it seems to be taken differently in Western culture.

I didnt mean to offend or upstage you Mike, I apologise if you felt offended. I learn now to not to do it to a non Chinese person.

Etiquette mistake.

Title: Re: For some to reflect and some to refract.
Post by Annette on Feb 29^th, 2008, 4:10pm

Some explainations:

Cau Doi is a Vietnamese literary art form of Chinese origin which is a highly specialized form of poetry, and means "sentence pair". As it's translation implies cau doi are two sentences, and in Vietnamese language would appear as parallel lines, though here in AW we will just use English. Each line should correspond with the other in both meaning and tone pattern.

http://www.ancientsites.com/aw/Thread/1041501

The closest to it in English literature is "couplets" as seen most commonly in older writings such as in Shakespears.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Couplets#Couplets_in_Chinese_culture

Title: Re: For some to reflect and some to refract.
Post by brewcrew on Feb 29^th, 2008, 4:19pm

Sorry - It struck me as "You think that's good? Try this on for size." Extremely insulting.

Title: Re: For some to reflect and some to refract.
Post by Annette on Feb 29^th, 2008, 4:30pm

Art is so hard to explain, especially when taken in different cultural context.

I guess I can explain it like this. We all know the famous Shakespear's line uttered by Hamlet " to be or not to be, that is the question ". In every day life, sometimes we borrow the same line but change it a little to express a different view but with similar meaning , we may say " to go or not to go, that is the question ". Why do we do this ? We do this because it expresses the different meaning we want to say but it retains the original feeling that the sentence carries with it. It doesnt mean we dont like Shakespear or we dont like his work. On the contrary, it often means we like it so much we "borrow" it to use as our own.

Through the years here, occasionally I have found that I would make a faux pas, to find myself clashing straight into the wall of cultural differences. If any of you have lived overseas, you would have experienced that. For eg, if you live in Japan and you dont bow back and keep your head lower when someone bows to you, you would be considered very rude. If you go to China and dont take your shoes off when you walk into their temples, you would be considered disrespectful. However, most of the time it would only be out of ignorance of the local practices, not because you mean anything malicious.

Still a learning curve for me so thanks for pointing it out that this is not acceptable, I learnt not to do it again and in the mean time I apologise to Mike, sincerely.

Title: Re: For some to reflect and some to refract.
Post by Annette on Feb 29^th, 2008, 4:31pm

on 02/29/08 at 16:19:50, brewcrew wrote:

Sorry - It struck me as "You think that's good? Try this on for size." Extremely insulting.

I am sorry it came across like that, not intended that way at all.

Edited to add: Ironically it was intended as the highest form of respect.

Closest analogy ? A Westerner goes to China, meets the wife of a good friend, to show respect he takes her hand and kiss it in the most gentleman way. The Chinese friend, mistaken it as an insulting gesture ( touching the flesh of his woman ), gets severely upset.

I guess if a man in Iraq can get his head chopped off for unknowingly seeing the face of a woman who is not related to him, I deserve to be hung here. :(

Title: Re: For some to reflect and some to refract.
Post by brewcrew on Feb 29^th, 2008, 4:43pm

No pity parties here. You just did what you did without any explanation until after several people were pissed off.

Don't worry about me - I'm not the one who's entitled to be insulted.

Title: Re: For some to reflect and some to refract.
Post by Annette on Feb 29^th, 2008, 5:00pm

I am not asking for pity. I am offering my explaination. I am not trying to downplay my error or trying to avoid responsibility. I fully accept that I have made a big mistake and I have upset a lot of people without knowing.

I have come to apologise directly to Mike ( Ghost ) for my ignorance and mistake.

I also offer my most sincere apology here to everyone who was offended.

I posted that last night ( Sydney time ) before going to bed. I only just log on to the board again 1.5 hrs ago at 7 am Sydney time here. As soon as I realised what it meant to Mike and to the people here, I apologised and explained to the best of my ability.

Once a mistake is made, its like water poured onto the floor, one cant take it back. I am going to delete the post to show regret and as an apology, but I do not deny that I had made a mistake and had offended people.

If the explaination and apology is not considered enough, help me out here please and tell me what else is expected to be the correct thing to do ?

Title: Re: For some to reflect and some to refract.
Post by karma on Feb 29^th, 2008, 5:02pm

Annette,
my apologies as well.

Title: Re: For some to reflect and some to refract.
Post by Goblin on Feb 29^th, 2008, 5:04pm

Thank you for the explination, Be at peace.

Title: Re: For some to reflect and some to refract.
Post by Charlie on Feb 29^th, 2008, 7:25pm

Amazing people....

I can't do anything like this

Charlie

Title: Re: For some to reflect and some to refract.
Post by andrewjb on Feb 29^th, 2008, 9:18pm

ditto goblin. beautiful poem mike, thanks. andrew.

Title: Re: For some to reflect and some to refract.
Post by Callico on Mar 4^th, 2008, 1:15am

Beautiful on both parts.

Mike, you have a gift for making words take on life that I envy.

Annette, musically that would be comparable to variations on a theme, i.e. "Variations on a Theme by Paganini" which was tried by at least four other composers. I for one enjoyed your contribution since I understand where it came from.

Jerry

Title: Re: For some to reflect and some to refract.
Post by Annette on Mar 4^th, 2008, 6:04am

on 03/04/08 at 01:15:35, Callico wrote:

.... I for one enjoyed your contribution since I understand where it came from.

Jerry

Thank you very much Jerry for the most precious gift : the gift of understanding.

Gratefully appreciated.

:)

Annette