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        Daily Chat >> General Posts >> Look OUT for NUMBER ONE!!!
        
(Message started by: BarbaraD on Feb 27th, 2008, 7:23am)
Title: Look OUT for NUMBER ONE!!!
Post by BarbaraD on Feb 27th, 2008, 7:23am
I've been reading these political threads, but not a one of you is thinking with your HEAD!!!!!

DO SOME RESEARCH!!!  For years we've spent time on this board complaining and gripping about insurance companies.

Right now there are THREE candidates campaigning on Health Care Reform! How many of YOU have READ their proposed PLANS? All you have to do is click on their websites and go to Issues and READ what they're proposing. There's a world of difference in the three.  THIS AFFECTS EVERYONE ON THIS BOARD!!!!!

My opinion is that we'd best quit worrying about how someone smiles, who wore what dress, who's too old or whatever else the pundants come up with to talk 24 hours a day about nothing and start doing some thinking on our own about what is going to HELP US!

We've all come to rely on TV to tell us EVERYTHING and gotten lazy. Isn't it about time we started checking our FACTS? TV may NOT tell it right or may tell it THEIR way.

Everyone on this board SHOULD be concerned about Health Care Coverage and YOU should owe it to yourself to CHECK out who has the best plan to HELP YOU.

End of RANT!

Hugs BD
Title: Re: Look OUT for NUMBER ONE!!!
Post by E-Double on Feb 27th, 2008, 7:29am
[smiley=thumb.gif]

NYer  agrees :-*
Title: Re: Look OUT for NUMBER ONE!!!
Post by brewcrew on Feb 27th, 2008, 7:47am
First of all, one person's plan on a piece of paper does not a health care plan make. It's the votes of those pesky other 525 members of Congress that count.

And second of all, you never address who's supposed to pay for all this pie in the sky health care. I usually tend to evaluate government plans in terms of what's best for all of us, not what's best for me.

Barb, I already fork over 30-35% of my earnings to big brother, and I don't get a hell of a lot for it. Please don't tell me that giving even more will improve the quality of my life. And certainly don't tell me that adding another couple of layers of government bureaucracy will make me healthier. I've been around too long to know that it doesn't work that way.

What I resent more than anything is career politicians telling me that they know better than I do what's best for me and my family, especially when their ultimate goal is simply to make more people dependent on them.
Title: Re: Look OUT for NUMBER ONE!!!
Post by deltadarlin on Feb 27th, 2008, 8:57am
Brewcrew,
I couldn't agree with you more.  It's wonderful to promise something on paper.  He[, even I can do that!  If I promise to cure cluster headaches if I'm elected, will everyone vote for me?
Title: Re: Look OUT for NUMBER ONE!!!
Post by Annette on Feb 27th, 2008, 9:01am

Dont know about the US Government but here in Australia they make big promises just to get voted in, once they are in they start to make excuses as to why they cant keep those promises  ::)
Title: Re: Look OUT for NUMBER ONE!!!
Post by thomas on Feb 27th, 2008, 9:05am

on 02/27/08 at 07:47:19, brewcrew wrote:
First of all, one person's plan on a piece of paper does not a health care plan make. It's the votes of those pesky other 525 members of Congress that count.

And second of all, you never address who's supposed to pay for all this pie in the sky health care. I usually tend to evaluate government plans in terms of what's best for all of us, not what's best for me.

Barb, I already fork over 30-35% of my earnings to big brother, and I don't get a hell of a lot for it. Please don't tell me that giving even more will improve the quality of my life. And certainly don't tell me that adding another couple of layers of government bureaucracy will make me healthier. I've been around too long to know that it doesn't work that way.

What I resent more than anything is career politicians telling me that they know better than I do what's best for me and my family, especially when their ultimate goal is simply to make more people dependent on them.

Indeed.  I've got a lot more important issues in my life right now besides my health care.  Most of which could be resolved if my tax burden was lighter.  I want the government out of my bedroom, off my tv, off my radio, out of my work place, out of my car, and most importantly out of my wallet.  The cycle of dependancy in this nation must stop NOW or there will be no recovering.  I'm tired of busting my ass and barely making it while the fat cats on both sides get fatter and fatter, and they farm and harvest support and money illegally from me and other hard working americans (yeah I used a small "a" on purpose).  Our federal government is already several thousands times bigger than it needs to be, making it bigger is just going to cost me more.  I've done my "research", Hiliary got over 100 million dollars from the health care industry for her campaign.  What does that tell you?  Here's how I think the phone call went.... "Yeah, if you guys contribute to my campaign, I'll get you another 47 million customers and you won't have to worry about collecting from them, cause we'll pay their bills with tax dollars.  Sound good to you?  Send the money to .............."  Yep, I think that's about how it went.
Title: Re: Look OUT for NUMBER ONE!!!
Post by BarbaraD on Feb 27th, 2008, 10:27am
I agree that Congress (the 525 votes) are what's gonna get things done. Some of those guys have been there WAAAY too damn long and who's fault is that? OURS!

So why the hell do WE keep electing them? We're too lazy to go vote against them? We just don't care? Everyone hates T. Kennedy, yet Mass. keeps putting him right back where he can do harm to you and me. Why? And that guy that went to the hospital today - he's got to be 100 years old... what good is he doing? Why do the people KEEP electing him? Texas isn't much better. We've had Ralph Hall since the Capital was built. I've been voting against him forever, but he keeps getting elected.... can't people see he's lost touch with US?

Until we get a grass roots movement going for term limits (and cut their pensions while we're at it) we're NOT going to see any changes. But to do that people of the US are going to have to give a damn.
Title: Re: Look OUT for NUMBER ONE!!!
Post by Paul98 on Feb 27th, 2008, 10:31am
When one of the Pols stands up and says:  Here is the health plan I propose and I and the US congress will participate in it because we think it is a good idea....

Then I will believe they mean buisness.  Until then they are just reaching into my pocket because they think I still might have a dime in there.
-P.
Title: Re: Look OUT for NUMBER ONE!!!
Post by thomas on Feb 27th, 2008, 10:33am

on 02/27/08 at 10:27:10, BarbaraD wrote:
But to do that people of the US are going to have to give a damn.

Most folks aren't smart enough to give a damn, that's the problem.
Title: Re: Look OUT for NUMBER ONE!!!
Post by brewcrew on Feb 27th, 2008, 11:09am
Here's another thing that should bother everybody about universal health care: Once the taxpayer is footing the bill, everything you do that affects your health becomes public and fair game. What you eat, what you smoke, what meds you take, which psychologist you talked to, your driving habits - you get the picture.

You think you lacked privacy before....
Title: Re: Look OUT for NUMBER ONE!!!
Post by thomas on Feb 27th, 2008, 11:24am

on 02/27/08 at 11:09:37, brewcrew wrote:
Here's another thing that should bother everybody about universal health care: Once the taxpayer is footing the bill, everything you do that affects your health becomes public and fair game. What you eat, what you smoke, what meds you take, which psychologist you talked to, your driving habits - you get the picture.

You think you lacked privacy before....

Without a doubt.
Title: Re: Look OUT for NUMBER ONE!!!
Post by Racer1_NC on Feb 27th, 2008, 1:04pm
Personally I believe the problem is that most everyone (the general population and the politicians) IS looking out for number one rather than what's good for the country.


on 02/27/08 at 10:27:10, BarbaraD wrote:
We've had Ralph Hall since the Capital was built. I've been voting against him forever, but he keeps getting elected.... can't people see he's lost touch with US?

I followed your advice and checked the facts. I can assure you that the Capitol wasn't built in 1980, which is when Rep. Hall was first elected to Congress. It would appear that most voters in his district do not feel he's lost touch with them as witnessed by his 28 year run in Congress.



Quote:
Until we get a grass roots movement going for term limits (and cut their pensions while we're at it) we're NOT going to see any changes.

We already have term limits. They are called elections. Perhaps you could run against Rep. Hall on your platform. If Rep. Hall has truly lost touch with his district and you represent opinions of the majority, it would stand to reason that you would win by a landslide.



Quote:
But to do that people of the US are going to have to give a damn.

I'd like to think I give a damn. I do not favor laws mandating term limits. Does that fact mean I do not give a damn, or does it mean I don't share your views? OR does it mean that those that do not believe as you don't give a damn? I hate to think the latter was the case, I'd have to re-think my entire belief system. Talk about time consuming.

Bill

Modified to correct syntax.
Title: Re: Look OUT for NUMBER ONE!!!
Post by LeLimey on Feb 27th, 2008, 4:07pm

on 02/27/08 at 13:04:07, Racer1_NC wrote:
Modified to correct syntax.


Well stuff that for a bag of marbles - if they are going to start taxing sin I'll have no pennies left at all!
Title: Re: Look OUT for NUMBER ONE!!!
Post by brewcrew on Feb 27th, 2008, 4:14pm

on 02/27/08 at 16:07:15, LeLimey wrote:
Well stuff that for a bag of marbles - if they are going to start taxing sin I'll have no pennies left at all!

You're funny. Not funny like "does this taste funny?" Like "Ha Ha" funny.

Funny stuff.
Title: Re: Look OUT for NUMBER ONE!!!
Post by BarbaraD on Feb 27th, 2008, 4:21pm
Bill, I'm not saying you don't give a damn - sorry 'bout that. I'm just angry about politicians right now. And Uncle Ralph hasn't had anyone running against him in a while. I ususally just write in someone or skip that one as a no vote. He's ONLY been there 28 years? Time flies when you're having fun.

We had a state rep one time who sent out questionaires and left a spot at the bottom for comments... I wrote "If you really want to know what I think come by my office and I'll tell you!"  The son-of-a-gun DID! We became friends and he got an earfull before most votes. We didn't always agree, but he explained his position and WHY he voted like he did and I NEVER got a form letter thanking me for contacting him. Most of the time when he voted against MY opinion was because I was in the minority (that I could understand). I hated to lose him in Austin cause I thought he actually represented ME, but he believed in term limits and got out after 10 years.

Back when I was growing up you could actually TALK to your Congressman - not figure out which aide handled what department. Nowadays you might shake the hand of your "elected" rep if you pay to go to a dinner or something.

Guess I'm just getting old, but things are just moving too fast for me. Think I'll go take a nap now....

Hugs BD
Title: Re: Look OUT for NUMBER ONE!!!
Post by Charlie on Feb 27th, 2008, 7:30pm
Socialized medicine: About time. Bring it on.

Term limits got big when the Republicans won back Congress in 1994 after nearly 40 years. Their idea was to kick out their competition while the getting was good.

I wonder what Rudolph Guliani really thinks of term limits?

Not good.

Charlie
Title: Re: Look OUT for NUMBER ONE!!!
Post by deltadarlin on Feb 27th, 2008, 8:20pm
And term limits don't mean diddly squat when all one has to do is switch from being a senator to a representative or vice versa.  LA has term limits in place, so when a politician is term limited, he just switches to another position and it's perfectly legal.
Title: Re: Look OUT for NUMBER ONE!!!
Post by Jonny on Feb 27th, 2008, 9:08pm
http://bostonherald.com/news/regional/general/view.bg?articleid=1076224

"In 2002, federal Judge Mark Wolf ruled Kosilek is entitled to treatment for gender identity disorder - including hormone treatments, laser hair removal and psychotherapy - but not surgery."

A fucking killer is sucking up tax dollars for this?
Title: Re: Look OUT for NUMBER ONE!!!
Post by BlueMeanie on Feb 27th, 2008, 11:13pm
Limiting the cost at which the medical community does business will stop most research into new meds and cures. Why would anyone want to invest time and money into research if they get limited on their return.

Since you've spent the time to read and understand each of the candidates plans, can you tell me which (if any) plan is not socialistic communistic and will allow me to opt out of their plan if I choose to do so ?
Title: Re: Look OUT for NUMBER ONE!!!
Post by BarbaraD on Feb 28th, 2008, 6:48am
One plan Blue has an Opt out if you're happy with your coverage now. It also has a provision to carry your insurance from job to job.

It also has a revision in the medicare medicine to cut the cost of medicine to us elderly (I like that).
It has provisions for research.

It has a mandatory provision for LARGE employers and an exemption for small employers, but does have a tax break if they chose to cover employees.

Two of the plans are very vague and non specific.
Title: Re: Look OUT for NUMBER ONE!!!
Post by thomas on Feb 28th, 2008, 9:29am

on 02/27/08 at 07:23:19, BarbaraD wrote:
I've been reading these political threads, but not a one of you is thinking with your HEAD!!!!!

I always use cold logic when dealing with politicians.  So I have to be using my head.  I don't let emotion dictate what I think of candidate or policy.
Title: Re: Look OUT for NUMBER ONE!!!
Post by Charlie on Feb 28th, 2008, 10:03am

on 02/27/08 at 23:13:45, BlueMeanie wrote:
Limiting the cost at which the medical community does business will stop most research into new meds and cures. Why would anyone want to invest time and money into research if they get limited on their return


The evil drug companies that spend millions trying to buy out generic drug producers....just to keep up us safe,....use the research tack all the time as a reason for their larceny. It's usually their first line of defense for keeping drug prices as such levels that we have to decide on health care or heat. They don't tell you that 60% or more of drug research is done in Europe and or other places.

It's wonderful that they are so concerned.

Charlie
Title: Re: Look OUT for NUMBER ONE!!!
Post by Kevin_M on Feb 28th, 2008, 10:53am

on 02/28/08 at 10:03:25, Charlie wrote:
...use the research tack all the time as a reason for their larceny. It's usually their first line of defense ...


Figures have been quoted and requoted from a 2001 Tuft's University study based on 68 drugs saying $897 million (revised) to develop a new drug, the study being funded by the drug companies.  
 A website called Public Citizen took a closer look.  Far more is spent on advertising and administration than discovering and developing.  Only 15% are actually new, based on newly discovered active ingredients.  The rest are drugs on the market offered in different dosages, existing drugs marketed for different ailments, or "me too" drugs that mimic other products.
 Many new drugs are created because the patents on older, profitable products are running out.  Without new and improved, they'd lose money to generics.  
 Mentioned also by the site, development of many innovative drugs is supported by taxpayer subsidies.  If you account for deducting R&D as a business expense, the site came to a figure well below $100 million per new drug.

Just a different viewpoint, I can't vouch for the extent of truth but it's quite a difference between cited figures for R&D claimed.
Title: Re: Look OUT for NUMBER ONE!!!
Post by Charlie on Feb 28th, 2008, 7:32pm
It is sweet of them to slightly alter dosages or add some insignificant thing to drugs to retain their obscene profits. Not illegal but heartless....not unexpected though from drug companies.  >:(

Charlie
Title: Re: Look OUT for NUMBER ONE!!!
Post by deltadarlin on Feb 28th, 2008, 7:55pm
The drug companies are only a teensy part of the overall problems.  We need tort reform (and not just for medical malpractice, but for ALL liability suits) just for starters.  Make it a criminal act with jail time if you file or participate in insurance fraud (I worked in the field of  Workman's Comp for 5 years as a rehab specialist for the insured and I can tell you some stories).

Also, make hospitals guarantee ALL patients the same rate that they accept from insurance companies~case in point, surgery for my daughter would have been around $10,000.00 if we didn't have insurance.  Our carrier uses this hopsital as a preferred providor.  With their agreement, the same surgery  is discounted to $5000.00, of which *we* only have to pay $500.00.   Now, someone tell me why they can't offer everyone that same rate?
Title: Re: Look OUT for NUMBER ONE!!!
Post by Charlie on Feb 28th, 2008, 8:05pm
Not bad but tort reform is a slippery thing. Most of it is favored by monster companies....not just medical....so when some creepy conglomerate gets sued, the real loser is the plaintiff. These huge wins are very rare but it doesn't look that way. The losses and the smaller successful suits don't make the news.

Charlie
Title: Re: Look OUT for NUMBER ONE!!!
Post by DragonSlayer on Feb 29th, 2008, 3:26am

on 02/28/08 at 10:53:18, Kevin_M wrote:
Figures have been quoted and requoted from a 2001 Tuft's University study based on 68 drugs saying $897 million (revised) to develop a new drug, the study being funded by the drug companies.  
 A website called Public Citizen took a closer look.  Far more is spent on advertising and administration than discovering and developing.  Only 15% are actually new, based on newly discovered active ingredients.  The rest are drugs on the market offered in different dosages, existing drugs marketed for different ailments, or "me too" drugs that mimic other products.
 Many new drugs are created because the patents on older, profitable products are running out.  Without new and improved, they'd lose money to generics.  
 Mentioned also by the site, development of many innovative drugs is supported by taxpayer subsidies.  If you account for deducting R&D as a business expense, the site came to a figure well below $100 million per new drug.

Just a different viewpoint, I can't vouch for the extent of truth but it's quite a difference between cited figures for R&D claimed.



CTV.ca is running an article entitled Drug-research spending second to marketing: study

Marc-Andre Gagnon and Joel Lexchin of York University in Toronto have published their study entitled "The Cost of Pushing Pills: A New Estimate of Pharmaceutical Promotion Expenditures in the United States" in the journal "Public Library of Science Medicine". The analysis found that U.S. drug companies spent $57.5 billion on promotional activities in 2004 alone. Compared that with the $31.5 billion on pharmaceutical research.

According to Lexchin "In the United States, there is one sales rep for every five doctors. That is a lot of money,".

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080103/marketing_drugs_080103/20080103?hub=Health
Title: Re: Look OUT for NUMBER ONE!!!
Post by deltadarlin on Feb 29th, 2008, 8:33am

on 02/28/08 at 20:05:31, Charlie wrote:
Not bad but tort reform is a slippery thing. Most of it is favored by monster companies....not just medical....so when some creepy conglomerate gets sued, the real loser is the plaintiff. These huge wins are very rare but it doesn't look that way. The losses and the smaller successful suits don't make the news.

Charlie



Charlie,
I'm not talking about the huge wins, because they are relatively rare.  It's the smaller ones that are the problem because they are so prolific.   I don't have a problem with those that sue with legitimate reason, but it's those who will sue at the drop of a hat for a hangnail that get to me.
Title: Re: Look OUT for NUMBER ONE!!!
Post by Gator on Feb 29th, 2008, 10:01am

on 02/29/08 at 08:33:10, deltadarlin wrote:
but it's those who will sue at the drop of a hat for a hangnail


or those who spill hot coffee on themselves and sue  ::)

What a world we live in, eh?

http://www.stellaawards.com/


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