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(Message started by: mummymac on Feb 13th, 2008, 3:00pm)
Title: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by mummymac on Feb 13th, 2008, 3:00pm
Two days ago at work we had a training seminair on Discrimination in readyness for the new laws (35 years behind the UK) that may be passed this year but definitely will be passed in the next 5 years, the  speakers words not mine.

We were told what was said in the room stayed in the room,  this was to make us aware of the situation for the future WHEN the law is passed.

As an example of prejudice she used the Irish conflict of the past, stating we are affected by how we are brought up.

i,e "the Catholics were taught to hate the Prodistants  and the Prodistants were taught to hate the Catholics". I stated that my Dad used to say 35 years ago when I was growing up "that they should just drop a bomb on them all and that would end the trouble".

Now I know that there is a lot more to the whole situatuion than that, but that is not the issue here.

Remembering that this was a training  situation , I got called to see my Director as a complaint had been made about my comment.  I explained what had been said to him,  who then said if I spoke to the person concerned that they would leave it there and no further action would be taken, and this was just the sort of thing we were being trained about.

So I apoligised to the girl concerned who ranted and raved at me about "How she could not belive how my Dad could had said such a thing and that I had been brought up around people who could think such things"

She went on about how upset she was that people really thought these things in the past , (35 years ago), also that I should apologise to everyone who was at the seminar.

So of course I was devestated that I had upset this girl so much that she had  taken  it to the big boss with out once leting me know I had upset her, as that was not my intention at all,

I sent an apology to all concerned for any real or imagined slight I had made.

Later that afternoon I was struck by the fact I was apoligising for something my Dad had said years ago and thought why the hell did I have  to do that.

I never once insulted the Irish or said I didn't like them but what the hell  I was still in the wrong.

There is no freedom of speech in Jersey anymore, the world has gone bloody mad.

Never belive anyone who says whats said in the room stays in the room, its all a load of crap.

Thanks for letting me moan as I was really cheesed of about the whole situation as how easily something could be blown out of all proportion

PS If I have said anything offensive to anyone I apoligise.

Just getting in the habit for the future
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by brewcrew on Feb 13th, 2008, 3:04pm
All you were doing was reporting the news as it happened.

You should have told her to sot off.
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by mummymac on Feb 13th, 2008, 3:07pm
Yeah but that is were my world has gone bloody crazy, if I had done that I would now be unemployed
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by thomas on Feb 13th, 2008, 3:07pm
Welcome to the world of political correctness.  Soon all of our thoughts will be programmed.
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by mummymac on Feb 13th, 2008, 3:09pm

on 02/13/08 at 15:07:09, thomas wrote:
Welcome to the world of political correctness.  Soon all of our thoughts will be programmed.


I don't like this world its shitty
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by Paul98 on Feb 13th, 2008, 3:25pm
You should have told the bitch that you are offended that she is so bloody sensitive as to what someone she has never met said 35 years ago and she should go and get a life!  

You had no reason to appologize to her or anyone else for what was said by a stranger to them.  As long as you don't condone and further the thoughts your father had that long ago, you are just stating what someone else said.

-P.
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by Guiseppi on Feb 13th, 2008, 3:29pm
In America, I'm still apologizing for:

1: Slavery...neither I nor any relative or friend of mine ever owned slaves but I am white and still apologizing.

2: The native americans. Yes the same ones making billions off of the gambling monopolies they have. I must continually apologize for living in America because someone, some where took their ancestors land LOOOONG before I was a gleam in my daddy's eye.

3: For the fact that I am succesful. In America if you are succcesful, and worse yet a republican, you spend your whole life apologizing to to the people you are supporting on welfare, for being succesful.

I could go on but you get the point. In society, to be noticed, you have to cry that you are a victim. That's all that young lady was doing. She is part of the new wave of young people who go through life looking for some offense, real or imagined, that they can file a grievance against and somehow be a "wronged" party.

The fact that you caught so much flak for a quote from your father....that leaves even me speechless!!! I leave you with this!

                            POLITICAL CORRECTNESS

Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Guiseppi's 2 cents!
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by monty on Feb 13th, 2008, 3:41pm
Ooof - sorry you got crunched.

I think Jim Bergerac should be called in. He's the only one who could straighten out this big mess on a little island.
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by Melissa on Feb 13th, 2008, 3:43pm
Times like that I go into the woods and sit under a tree.

Gives the situation a whole new perspective. :)
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by DennisM1045 on Feb 13th, 2008, 4:03pm

on 02/13/08 at 15:29:17, Guiseppi wrote:
Guiseppi's 2 cents!

Anyone else here think Guiseppi is starting to sound an awful lot like his Dad  ;)  Atta boy Guiseppi!

-Dennis-
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by brewcrew on Feb 13th, 2008, 4:09pm

on 02/13/08 at 16:03:44, DennisM1045 wrote:
Anyone else here think Guiseppi is starting to sound an awful lot like his Dad  ;)  Atta boy Guiseppi!

-Dennis-

He's probably starting to look like him, too.
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by mummymac on Feb 13th, 2008, 4:15pm
Thanks everyone

I feel so much better, I just came of the phone to my no 1 daughter who is  studying for the Bar and full of the legal rights and wrongs, and she agreed that I really hadn't done anything wrong.

Guiseppi

Your post is so true,

I could go on but you get the point. In society, to be noticed, you have to cry that you are a victim. That's all that young lady was doing. She is part of the new wave of young people who go through life looking for some offense, real or imagined, that they can file a grievance against and somehow be a "wronged" party.  


Monty

I am looking but can't seem to find Jim Bergerac, maybe he drove of into the sunset in his little red car and fell of the end of our little Island

Paul

If I had said that it would have made me look more gulity, but I can and will think what you said.

don't you find you are always more suspicious of anyone who starts to make excuses,

Melissa

Its too dark and cold to find a tree, but you all have made me see it is not so bad which gives the situation a whole new perspective

Thank you  all
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by Guiseppi on Feb 13th, 2008, 5:12pm
He's probably starting to look like him, too.

If that wasn't so spot on I'd probably take offense! ;;D

Guiseppi
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by Annette on Feb 13th, 2008, 5:41pm

on 02/13/08 at 15:00:16, mummymac wrote:
Remembering that this was a training  situation , I got called to see my Director as a complaint had been made about my comment.  I explained what had been said to him,  who then said if I spoke to the person concerned that they would leave it there and no further action would be taken, and this was just the sort of thing we were being trained about.


PS If I have said anything offensive to anyone I apoligise.

Just getting in the habit for the future




Sorry to hear you were put through such hassles just for mentioning an opinion 35 years old ! That is just ridiculous.

I was wondering whether you asked the Director exactly what "offense" you had committed by doing so, and what "further action" would be taken if you refused to apologise?

It sounded to me that it was just a personal conflict. More than likely the girl didnt like you already and just seized the opportunity to cause you trouble. Since it was personal conflict it should be handled at the personal level. I would have asked for a chance to meet the girl to discuss it face to face, with the Director present if necessary.

I would quiz her that apart from her finding the content of the comment offending to herself, was there anything else wrong with my conduct. The fact she didnt like what was said and the fact you simply repeated the comment were two completely different things. If she didnt like how your dad thought then she could go complain to him. If she didnt like hearing it from you then its tough luck, its not a legal offense to simply repeat someones saying, you werent speaking to her directly. Can you complain that someone is swearing at large and you just happen to be close enough to hear it ? Can you ask for an apology if it wasnt directed at you ?

Furthermore I would refuse to send a blanket apology to anyone else. I would ask if anyone else had problem with the incidence to come see me directly to discuss the matter.

It seems you were determined " guilty " without so much a chance to defend yourself and you "admitted" to the "crime" too quickly and readily.

I always believe in having the opportunity to defend myself, and its much better done face to face at a personal level. Most often people chicken out of doing so.


Just my 2cents.
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by Gator on Feb 13th, 2008, 9:36pm
Send this to the whiney bitch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdaM8mxEBtY


Whaambulance has 2 A's Groov.   ::)  Sheesh  [smiley=grin2.gif]




Edited for clarity
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by Groov on Feb 13th, 2008, 9:37pm
Pathetic indeed !!!

Oh boo hoo, I am such a victim...everyone feel sorry for me. Maybe you should call her a       "WHAAMBULANCE"                                        
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by Groov on Feb 13th, 2008, 9:39pm

on 02/13/08 at 21:36:52, Gator wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdaM8mxEBtY


Whaambulance has 2 A's Groov.   ::)  Sheesh



:-/
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by Gator on Feb 13th, 2008, 9:42pm
Okay, how did my reply to your post end up above your post, dude?  That's just freaky.
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by Annette on Feb 13th, 2008, 9:47pm

on 02/13/08 at 21:42:42, Gator wrote:
Okay, how did my reply to your post end up above your post, dude?  That's just freaky.



Someone must have gotten offended at your reply and complained to management , and it was held back to check for political correctness !  ;)  ;;D
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by Kevin_M on Feb 13th, 2008, 9:53pm

on 02/13/08 at 21:42:42, Gator wrote:
Okay, how did my reply to your post end up above your post, dude?  That's just freaky.


Hmmmm.  

How did the chicken get to the other side of the road before he crossed the road to the other side?
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by Mosaicwench on Feb 13th, 2008, 9:54pm
I just want someone to give me a list of the words I'm NOT supposed to use and then go on their way.

I hate this contextual bs and having to consider a thought from the "perennially offended's"  perspective before expressing it.
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by Groov on Feb 13th, 2008, 9:58pm

on 02/13/08 at 21:42:42, Gator wrote:
Okay, how did my reply to your post end up above your post, dude?  That's just freaky.

 I fixed the word whaambulance Gator. In doing so, I tried to do some things with the html...you know colors etc. I deleted it so it would look good, but it didnt work out anyways. Nothin' to it really.
Dave
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by Groov on Feb 13th, 2008, 10:00pm

on 02/13/08 at 21:47:26, Annette wrote:
Someone must have gotten offended at your reply and complained to management , and it was held back to check for political correctness !  ;)  ;;D



Yes, Gator offended me...in turn, my neighbor Bob was offended that I was offended.

We are both considering legal action  ;;D
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by Melissa on Feb 13th, 2008, 10:04pm

on 02/13/08 at 21:53:05, Kevin_M wrote:
Hmmmm.  

How did the chicken get to the other side of the road before he crossed the road to the other side?

I think it had something to do with peanut butter...
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by Charlie on Feb 13th, 2008, 10:09pm
Political correctness wastes time......lots of it and is boring as hell.

Charlie
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by BarbaraD on Feb 14th, 2008, 8:13am
I think we should convene a congressional hearing on this.... :D

IMO - Political correctness is the biggest waste of time there is.... My DADDY (and he died in 83 - that's 25 years ago if anyone wants to take offense) ALWAYS said - "It's just as bad to think it as it is to SAY it!" so I just always just went ahead and "said it". Always figured if anyone took offense it was THEIR problem - at least they knew where I stood.

But geezz Mum - I don't see why that bwitch didn't speak up in the meeting if she had a problem - let everyone KNOW right then - not later. Sounds to me like she was just a trouble maker....

Take a deep breath and figure out a way to "get her".

Hugs BD
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by brewcrew on Feb 14th, 2008, 10:49am
Barb - There's an old Jewish saying that, roughly translated, goes, "Just because something is true doesn't mean it has to be spoken." Political correctnes is, for the most part, bullshit. But there's also tact and diplomacy. Can you imagine how many people's feelings you'd hurt if you just said whatever you were thinking, all the time? Sorry, I'm not into hurting people's feelings just for the sake of verbalizing things that occur to me.
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by Annette on Feb 14th, 2008, 3:37pm

on 02/14/08 at 10:49:02, brewcrew wrote:
Barb - There's an old Jewish saying that, roughly translated, goes, "Just because something is true doesn't mean it has to be spoken." Political correctnes is, for the most part, bullshit. But there's also tact and diplomacy. Can you imagine how many people's feelings you'd hurt if you just said whatever you were thinking, all the time? Sorry, I'm not into hurting people's feelings just for the sake of verbalizing things that occur to me.



With all due respect Bill, I beg to differ here, applying too much tact and diplomacy and one becomes wishy washy.

Peoples feelings are not always valid and we all need a big kick up our backsides sometimes or progress will never be made.

I do believe in speaking my mind.

The art of it may lie in the HOW its said, not whether or not it should be said.

JMHO.
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by nani on Feb 14th, 2008, 3:48pm

on 02/14/08 at 10:49:02, brewcrew wrote:
Barb - There's an old Jewish saying that, roughly translated, goes, "Just because something is true doesn't mean it has to be spoken." Political correctnes is, for the most part, bullshit. But there's also tact and diplomacy. Can you imagine how many people's feelings you'd hurt if you just said whatever you were thinking, all the time? Sorry, I'm not into hurting people's feelings just for the sake of verbalizing things that occur to me.



Thank you, Bill.  There are huge differences between freedom of speech, political correctness, and insensitivity.
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by BarbaraD on Feb 14th, 2008, 4:04pm
Ok, so MOM tried to teach me TACT -- but I listened to Dad most of the time. Mom kept sending me to charm schools and ..... well ok, I KNOW HOW to act like a lady and say "My MY..." instead of "Bullshit" when I have to.. but... still think it's a waste of time... :)

I really wouldn't intentionally hurt someone's feelings for the world, but if someone wants to take something I say out of context and turn it around to mean something that "will" hurt their little feelings then I think that's THEIR problem and I don't worry about it a whole lot. And we all know there ARE people who thrive on doing just that.

On this board we all write things that come out a little different than if we were talking to each other one on one and sometimes they just don't sound exactly the way they would were we saying them in person, so someone takes them wrong. To me it's a waste of time to analyze exactly what the writer meant. Take it with a grain of salt and let it go. There's enough other posts to read to  keep you busy reading without starting world war III because of one little mistypeo.

I've told people on here for years - ya wanna pick on someone - pick on me - I don't take nothin' personal.

Course that's just my opinion and I'm OLD and think everyone's entitled to it. :-* :-* :-*

Hugs BD
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by mummymac on Feb 14th, 2008, 4:28pm
I wish I had waited a day to reply to her about the whole thing, Yesterday I was concerned about upsetting  her, today I am angry at having to apoligise for My Dad.

But I have learnt something from the whole situation, and from all your  advice.  If anything like this ever happens again I will step back from it all and give my self time to react to it more calmly. ( not be such a wet blanket over it all)

Just a note to add  apparently I upset an alchoclic Jock Bitch as well and I never even mentioned that we beat the Jocks well and truely many eons  of years ago (oh that felt good to say) .

To day is a bit brighter and yesterday will fade into a funny story

Thanks again for watching my back against mad celtic women
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by Jonny on Feb 14th, 2008, 5:19pm
[smiley=wave.gif]LMAO!!!! [smiley=grin2.gif]
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by brewcrew on Feb 14th, 2008, 6:08pm

on 02/14/08 at 15:37:44, Annette wrote:
With all due respect Bill, I beg to differ here, applying too much tact and diplomacy and one becomes wishy washy.

Annette - I never said anything about using too much tact or diplomacy. Anybody who know me knows that I don't hold back in speaking my mind. But I also carefully weigh what I say so as not to unnecessarily hurt the feelings of those who don't deserve it.

And sometimes I say nothing. Usually because I'm too angry.
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by Annette on Feb 14th, 2008, 6:16pm

on 02/14/08 at 18:08:18, brewcrew wrote:
And sometimes I say nothing. Usually because I'm too angry.



[smiley=hug.gif]
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by Jonny on Feb 14th, 2008, 6:38pm
Ahhhh, free speech....I love how Neal handles this clown...LOL  [smiley=grin2.gif]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=b0d_1179249822&p=1
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by Groov on Feb 14th, 2008, 7:53pm
How do ya like this one Jonny? It's would be funny if it weren't real.

 http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=fd1_1179249179

 Nutters
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by Jonny on Feb 14th, 2008, 8:09pm

on 02/14/08 at 19:53:24, Groov wrote:
How do ya like this one Jonny? It's would be funny if it weren't real.


Dude, thats got to be just a radio bit.
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by Groov on Feb 14th, 2008, 8:25pm

on 02/14/08 at 20:09:19, Jonny wrote:
Dude, thats got to be just a radio bit.

 
Could be Jonny. I didnt recognize the show. It does  describe some of their complaints tho. I'll never figure out their  wacky religion.
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by nani on Feb 14th, 2008, 11:43pm

on 02/14/08 at 16:28:37, mummymac wrote:
Just a note to add  apparently I upset an alchoclic Jock Bitch as well and I never even mentioned that we beat the Jocks well and truely many eons  of years ago (oh that felt good to say)


Well, that certainly makes me want to defend your right to free speech.   ::)

Wikipedia:  Jock is also a term used, either derogatively or as a term of endearment,for people from Scotland.
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by rickyshot on Feb 15th, 2008, 11:35am
I HATE political correctness and I guess that is why I love y'all. Y'all are the biggest in your facers I ever met hehe. Seriously though there is a difference in freedom of speech, tact, and brutal honesty when needed. Freedom is so often mixed up with license. Any society needs guidelines to run smoothly especially one of so many people from different backgrounds such as ours.
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by brewcrew on Feb 15th, 2008, 1:55pm
It's not politically correct for canucks to say "y'all."
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by brewcrew on Feb 15th, 2008, 3:07pm
Or maybe it's just culturally incorrect... ;)
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by Sandy_C on Feb 15th, 2008, 4:09pm

on 02/13/08 at 15:29:17, Guiseppi wrote:
In America, I'm still apologizing for:

1: Slavery...neither I nor any relative or friend of mine ever owned slaves but I am white and still apologizing.

2: The native americans. Yes the same ones making billions off of the gambling monopolies they have. I must continually apologize for living in America because someone, some where took their ancestors land LOOOONG before I was a gleam in my daddy's eye.

3: For the fact that I am succesful. In America if you are succcesful, and worse yet a republican, you spend your whole life apologizing to to the people you are supporting on welfare, for being succesful.

I could go on but you get the point. In society, to be noticed, you have to cry that you are a victim. That's all that young lady was doing. She is part of the new wave of young people who go through life looking for some offense, real or imagined, that they can file a grievance against and somehow be a "wronged" party.

The fact that you caught so much flak for a quote from your father....that leaves even me speechless!!! I leave you with this!

                            POLITICAL CORRECTNESS

Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

Guiseppi's 2 cents!



Guiseppi....I LOVE YOU!  

Thanks for putting it right out there for all to see!  I'm damned tired of all this garbage too.

Sandy
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by Sandy_C on Feb 15th, 2008, 4:27pm

on 02/15/08 at 13:55:29, brewcrew wrote:
It's not politically correct for canucks to say "y'all."


Brew!

Ricky may be a Canuck by where she lives, but Ricky is a true Southern Belle, and she can say y'all whenever she wants to!  
>:(  So there!

Ricky, my GF, you are so right.  I am so tired of trying to be "PC" on the chance I might offend someone.  

Well, I'm tired being offended on a daily basis by those in my country who expect me to speak THEIR language.  If they are here, they need to learn MY language.  

To have my hard earned tax money pay for THEIR health care when I can't afford health care of my own.  They get theirs for free while I pay through the nose, yet I am politically incorrect if I complain.

To all those PC people.....bite me!

OK, I could go on for hours, but I'm stepping off the soap box now.

Sandy
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by mummymac on Feb 15th, 2008, 6:31pm

on 02/14/08 at 23:43:00, nani wrote:
Well, that certainly makes me want to defend your right to free speech.   ::)

Wikipedia:  Jock is also a term used, either derogatively or as a term of endearment,for people from Scotland.




I am married to a jock,  my children are half jock. and I go around using the name McIntosh (hence Mummymac) so felt a right to  vent.  I never  use this term normally, I was just venting on this board.
Title: Re: What is freedoom of speech?
Post by brewcrew on Feb 15th, 2008, 6:34pm

on 02/15/08 at 16:27:45, Sandy_C wrote:
Brew!

Ricky may be a Canuck by where she lives, but Ricky is a true Southern Belle, and she can say y'all whenever she wants to!  
>:(  So there!

Sandy - Did you honestly think I didn't know that? But, so as not to offend the highly offendable lot by which she is surrounded, she needs to stop practicing the ways of her youth. ;)


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