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Title: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Jonny on Feb 4th, 2008, 6:52pm Get ready to have some of it taken away from you, and you will not have a damn thing to say about it! http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a17_1202134511 Becareful who you vote for!!! |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Sean_C on Feb 4th, 2008, 7:22pm on 02/04/08 at 18:52:15, Jonny wrote:
I self pay 20K now, and I'm thankful. Massachusetts already has mandatory health ins. in place. To make it short, if your employer employs more than 6? employees, he's required to provide you with "basic" health ins. His penalty for non compliance is $250.00 per employee per year. You do the math. |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by jimmers on Feb 4th, 2008, 7:23pm She wouldn't BLOW her husband, but she has no problem FUC&*^ ME! BEYATCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jimmers |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Sean_C on Feb 4th, 2008, 7:32pm I don't understand? Take the candidate out of the equation, whats wrong with having health ins.? It sucks not to have it, been there done that. It costs money no matter how you do it. I pay 20K. Colins surgery and his hospital stay was 325K. And to make matters worse, it failed. And they'll pay again the hospital said, its just going to take some time unless its an emergency. I don't know folks, no health care would be a disaster for me. I need it, no buts about it. |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Jonny on Feb 4th, 2008, 7:38pm on 02/04/08 at 19:32:51, Sean_C wrote:
You have a choice to pay or not pay, bro....with Hilliary you are going to jail if you dont pay! See what I mean? |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Sean_C on Feb 4th, 2008, 7:53pm on 02/04/08 at 19:38:25, Jonny wrote:
I know what your saying, believe me I do. However, the choice for me and you is pay or don't pay, for others its, if you can't afford to pay, then get into the welfare troth. And I'm not talking people who make little wages. A union laborer who makes close to 30.00 per hour in his check, has to have 1000 hours in 2 consequetive quarters to be eligable for health ins. for the next 2 consequetive quarters. If you don't make the hours, no health ins. And the union doesn't give you the money back that you put in for it to get your own privately. If she ever threw anyone in jail for not providing, or having healthcare, I personally will start the revolution dude ;) |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Paul98 on Feb 4th, 2008, 8:04pm Let her win the primary for the Dems and her statement will be her Willy Horton moment. All the GOP would have to do is make a plethora of adds and she would go down in smoke. -P. |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Jonny on Feb 4th, 2008, 8:09pm on 02/04/08 at 19:53:24, Sean_C wrote:
And we already pay for those on welfare, now we will get to pay for everybody thats not on welfare and do not have ins. Watch the video again and tell me what the sixth word out of her mouth is.....do it! |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Ree on Feb 4th, 2008, 8:24pm If that is your only worry jonny fear not... they tried to do it when Bill was in there and it didnt go through. I think we need it though, but I can see your point you would rather chose to have it or not... When you need it, its great to have it there though. All I know is we need a change here in this country... vote no matter what everyone no matter who... excersize your constitutional right to election!!!! ree |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Jonny on Feb 4th, 2008, 8:34pm on 02/04/08 at 20:24:24, Ree wrote:
Hillary is more of the same.......I dont see no change in that, do you? |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by PollyPocket on Feb 4th, 2008, 8:35pm unfreakinbelievable. |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Sean_C on Feb 4th, 2008, 8:46pm on 02/04/08 at 20:09:30, Jonny wrote:
Dude please, me and you are already living it. Massachusetts makes health insurance mandatory (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=11689698) |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Jonny on Feb 4th, 2008, 9:06pm "There are questions about how costs will be controlled, considering that the state will not regulate the increase of premiums." Thats key, Hilliary is going to TELL you how much to pay and your going to jail if you dont. Not to mention that you will only be allowed to see docs that Hilliary says you can see! |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Sean_C on Feb 4th, 2008, 9:15pm on 02/04/08 at 21:06:35, Jonny wrote:
My premium went up 200 dollars per month. And yes, it was alot to me. Along with gas price increases etc etc. Give me her no health ins. jail link. Make it quick, I'm off to bed in a half hour, and if its true, I will personally hold a Hillary sucks sign at the polls tomorrow. |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Jonny on Feb 4th, 2008, 9:28pm on 02/04/08 at 21:15:49, Sean_C wrote:
Like I said, go back to the video and listen to the sixth word out of her mouth! Also, do you know what "Wage garnishment" means? |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Charlie on Feb 4th, 2008, 9:42pm Nevertheless; all you have to do is take a look at the people that scream the loudest at socialized medicine: It's always from evil HMOs, bottom feeding drug companies and others that will have to play ball with the rest of us. Not much cash in that as medical costs will fall greatly, not rise with national insurance. It has everywhere else and remains high quality, no matter the lies from Rudy Guilanni on the subject. Charlie |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Jonny on Feb 4th, 2008, 9:49pm on 02/04/08 at 21:42:41, Charlie wrote:
I guess thats why there are endless stories of people coming to the states from Canada for operations.....because they would die before being seen in their own country. |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Groov on Feb 4th, 2008, 9:53pm Check this out Jonny: Am I missing something here !?!?!? I took her statements to say that if I am employed somewhere, I will be forced by the State to carry insurance. If I decide not to carry health insurance, my wages will be stolen by the State. Is this correct??? First of all, health insurance, even for my company who has the benefit of a group plan, is VERY expensive. I pay $35 a week and my company picks up something like $100 a week. Maybe I could not afford $135 a week for insurance. She claims to make it "affordable" Now how will she do this !?!?!?! Where does she have the right to tell insurance companies to carry people for half (or whatever) of the normal premium??? Does she expect she has the legal right to "force" all companies to instead provide the difference !?!?!? Her last "plan" went down in flames, why would this one be any different !?!?!? Having ACTUALLY OWNED AND OPERATED one for many years, I know that MANY small businesses do not make the kind of money to provide like my company does. What does she expect them to do ? Run a company that makes no money just to provide insurance for it's employees? Small businesses employ as many people as bigger companies. Many simply cannot afford it. That is FACT, not some greedy owner talking. I KNOW, my business was great as a side line for me, but I still had to work for a larger company to get the benefits my small business just couldnt afford. I just don't see what makes her think her "enFORCEment" ideas are Constitutional. Her "I know better than you" attitude is why so many people find her abhorrent. Universal health care by itself could easily be Constitutional if that is what the majority wanted. If that is what she wants, then maybe she should propose plans that are logical and appear to work.... NOT tell people she is going to tell them what to do. Americans DO NOT like being pushed around. We DO like straight talk and sincere solutions. I don't like her or her attitude. Regards, Dave |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Charlie on Feb 4th, 2008, 9:55pm Those endless stories are much rarer than is usually admitted and an awful lot of these are simply recycled over and over by.....insurance and drug companies...for.....perhaps political purposes? Nah...that couldn't be! 8) Also, in virtually every instance when Canadians are asked if they would give up they're system for ours, 99% or more say no. Charlie |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Sean_C on Feb 4th, 2008, 10:02pm Health care reform is needed in this country, I'm picking up the tab for those who could afford it, but refuse to obtain it, then request treatment. Thats the bottom line. |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Groov on Feb 4th, 2008, 10:37pm We do need a solution Sean, I agree. As for those who could afford it? It would be foolish to not have it if they could afford it. If they have money and receive treatment for which they dont pay for...they will get sued and the money will be collected. That is unless someone with money and good credit would throw it away by filing bankruptcy. It's even reasonable to say that funding the dumbass war will cost more than insurance for everyone in the whole country times 4...I believe it !!! It always comes back to the same arguments of if it is or isnt a good idea. Cheap insurance for everyone (a fiscal impossibility) wow, I'd love it. 50 bucks a month and I'm gold !!! awesome!!! Here is what I want: no more stupid arguments about good or bad. Show me proof positive on a plan that works. That simple...yet NOONE can seem to do so. It is not reasonable to compare Canada with our country. They have a different system that may or may not work under our system of Govt. I dunno, but no one has given any comprehensive plan yet to prove it either way....so it's a pointless argument. Show me a plan that doesn't rape a business and force them to give up THEIR own money. A plan that is paid by everyone and each person pulls their own weight. So far, I've seen absolutely NO logistics, no plan, no fiscal plan as to how we would make health care cut itself in 6ths...cause that is what it would take. For instance, say I work for a place that is small and cant afford to subsidize me like my current company can. It would cost me maybe $600 a month at my age and single status. Now, show me a plan that magically makes insurance premiums go down to $140 a month (what I am currently paying) If not, why would I even entertain the idea???? What good would it do me to pay more? I don't owe anyone anything. I pull my own weight. The day may come where I lose mine and am damn unhappy about it...hope not. But the day will never come when I demand others pay my way. So, heres the challenge to the politicians who want to implement universal health care: How you gonna do it? Ok, how about the taxes/ Govt. provided angle? Well, I would have to pay in an additional $5,500 in Federal taxes to make up the difference at the current cost of my insurance. That would be insane, most could never afford that. For that angle to work, the Gooberment would have to magically make health insurance go down from about $7,200 a year to $1,680 a year. I am using the figures that my company & I pay currently. Also, remembering I am talking about someone who doesn't have the benefit of company subsidized insurance. What would we do? Just throw it on the National deficit like we do everything else these days? Pay Doctors 5 bucks an hour? disallow protection against mal-practice? Where would these great savings come from? See, thats my problem with the idea. Even though I like the idea, no one has come up with a solution...only endless banter. Dave |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by chewy on Feb 5th, 2008, 6:06am Gotta love it. 2 minute clips from sites like live leak and youtube are used to influence peoples judgements. No wonder we are systemically fucked. |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Gena on Feb 5th, 2008, 11:44am Politicians can’t even run an effective government. They are corrupt, and take money from special interest groups. and people want them to run our health care system Please |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Guiseppi on Feb 5th, 2008, 12:09pm Guiseppi's 2 cents worth........ Communism is a great idea, it is truly Christianity at its very best. Everybody pitching in to help everyone else. It's a great concept and would definitely display the greatest traits of humanity, compassion, generosity, caring......problem is, everywhere it's been tried, it has failed, miserably. The greedy always step in and corrupt it. Capitalism, greed, is the only system that works. People need to believe the harder they work, the more they can accomplish for themselves and their families. Using THAT system, we have created the greatest country in the world. Using that heartless, greedy system, we have created a country that does more charitable good then all the other countries combined. No one feeds as many poverty stricken people as we do, no one responds faster to global calamities then we do, and no one accomplishes more at these calamaties then we do. Socialized medicine doesn't work. Put a lid on how much someone can earn, (socialized medicine does that), and your great minds turn elsewhere for a career. Find me a country where socialized medecine works, and I'll be more willing to look at it with an open mind. I know too many neighbors to the North, Canada, who come here for their medical care to avoid the 6 month waits, and then return home for the free prescriptions. Free medical care for all sounds great. The fact that IT DOESN'T WORK ANYWHERE ITS BEEN TRIED concerns me. And that's about as political as I'll ever get!!!! Luv y'all. Guiseppi |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Tiannia on Feb 5th, 2008, 1:24pm I would be happy to find a site that would objectively compare all the damn plan side by side. Show what each offers compared to the other and what the pros and cons are. I'm tired of listening to all the RAH RAH by each of the candidates and all that is Rosy in their plans and all the wonderful f'ing things they are going to do for the country and the world and not want it will actually means to me. "I'm the only one that is doing this." "Or I'm the only one who is ready Day 1" BLAH BLAH BLAH. F'ck, why dont they realize that over half the county does nt understand what the hell they are saying and even the people who are savy enough to get around the political jargon and BS that it is still hard to find the truth in all the crap that flys out of their mouths. I dont want to hear Ted Kennedy tell me that Obama's plan is the best. And then Hilary doing the same. What are the differences between the plans. What are their points, what are they missing? That if one of them actually gave an honest account of what they want to do and gave an actually factual account and breakdown of what they want and how it will effect a person or family, they would probably get elected just because the average American would understand them. I hate the fact that Voting for the President is more along the lines of voting for the lesser of the 2 evils. Rather then voting for who will do the best for the Country. We are voting for who we think will not F*ck it up the worse. >:( |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by thomas on Feb 5th, 2008, 1:37pm Last time I read my constitution, the one that I defended, I didn't see anything about the government providing for all of us. I'd prefer to have the freedom to provide for myself and my family how I see fit. It's getting to the point where I'm almose embarrassed by the fact that I actually served this country in my lifetime. We've become a bunch of pansys, looking for the next hand out in exchange for personal freedom. No longer the land of the free or home of the brave as far as I can tell. |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by thomas on Feb 5th, 2008, 1:41pm on 02/05/08 at 06:06:05, chewy wrote:
I never even click on those links, no matter who posts 'em. Trust me I've developed my opinion on our beloved government over many years of personal experience and observation. No sound byte is going to change what I feel and know about our ruling class (and if you think they're anything else, you're nuts) the only thing that will change my opinion is if things on the hill actually change and the people on the hill aren't going to be the ones to initiate the change, why should they? They have everything they could ever want right now. Our money and complete control over our lives. Pretty good gig if you can land it. |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by brewcrew on Feb 5th, 2008, 1:46pm People have been exchanging personal liberty for security for a long time. In this country it started with the Social Security program. Even before that - medieval Europe. 10 sacks of grain and your fairest daughter for certain protections. |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by thomas on Feb 5th, 2008, 1:50pm on 02/05/08 at 13:46:29, brewcrew wrote:
I thought that's why we left. :-/ Apparently not. |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Tiannia on Feb 5th, 2008, 2:56pm on 02/05/08 at 13:50:34, thomas wrote:
We (the Europeans) left so that they could live without persecution and be free to make a living on land of their own. Not being a person who worked for someone else so that they lord did not have to get their hands dirty. Now a day most Americans dont won their own home let alone do anything that makes then completely self-sufficient. For most people, their job is not creating something that they could barter with for food, rather it is time that they are spending and getting paid for. ei. Time they answer a phone and direct people to where the restrooms are for a receptionist. She does not create anything. Rather she is a space keeper so someone else does not have to do it. In a way, there is not much different now. Most people work doing a job that those above them (be it their boss, or the politicians) dont want to do, and typically could not do if they had to. Cutting down to the bare facts, there is no difference to back then and now. |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by brewcrew on Feb 5th, 2008, 3:14pm Did they leave for freedom, or an illusion of freedom? I ain't sayin'. I'm jus' sayin'.... |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Tiannia on Feb 5th, 2008, 3:19pm on 02/05/08 at 15:14:41, brewcrew wrote:
I did not say they got what they wanted, only that that was what they where hoping to find when they left. Of course they did the exact same people who lived in this country when they got here, but still.... :-X |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by wildhaus on Feb 5th, 2008, 3:27pm Ill start with the initial question, posted by Jonny Do you work hard for your pay? Yes I DO! Now, to what I pay for it in taxes: about 1-1 ½ month salary worth or just over 1/12 of my income per annum and I cry my eyes out when I get the bill……………… ::) For health Ins. I pay about SFR 350 (Swiss Franks) a month, but I do get very much for it……….. AND I STILL COMPLAIN….. I am stingy! and I love my hard earned money to warm my bank account and not to be paid to the Government! but that’s me!! The obligatory Ins. (health Ins) is about SFR. 150. - per month which is affordable! and does give you quite a bit for the money! Now to the Video Clip…. I’m not going into this…. this is yours to deal with, I am not paying taxes nor anything else in the USA…. so I have no right to comment…… But I do find these Premiers amusing and extremely entertaining…… I could almost say as entertaining as the super bowl….. but only almost! Guiseppi…. Quote:
Sorry, but if I remember right the Idea of Communism grew on Jewish turf….. Was it not Marx and Engels. Karl Heinrich Marx (May 5, 1818 – March 14, 1883) born the third of seven children of a Jewish family in Trier, in the Kingdom of Prussia's Province of the Lower Rhine was a 19th century philosopher, political economist, and revolutionary. Often called the father of communism Friedrich Engels (November 28, 1820 – August 5, 1895) Friedrich Engels was born in Barmen, Rhine Province of the kingdom of Prussia (now a part of Wuppertal in North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany) as the eldest son of a German textile manufacturer. Was a German social scientist and philosopher, who developed communist theory alongside his better-known collaborator, Karl Marx, co-authoring The Communist Manifesto (1848 ) . Quote:
AND I DO BELIEVE FULLY IN WHAT YOU SAY…. THE USA IS A BEACON TO THE FREE WORLD, AND A BEACON FOR THE FREE WORLD!!!!! Quote:
This is wrong on your end….. look at the Nordic country’s in Europe like Norway or Sweden It seems it works FOR THEM! It can not work in the USA (and I lived and worked there, as well as I am a father to 2 American boys and an American wife so I do have a bit of right to comment) the greed is in the way, by the time you finish suing each other the cost of Ins. (Socialized health Ins) will…… most likely be a ballistic rocket….. not to forget so many free loaders…… Social medicine is based on one simple principle self responsibility….. in other words….and Ill use JFK’s terminology (Inaugural Address by John F. Kennedy - January 20th 1961) ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for your country. And I do not intend or would like to criticize any one….. this was the impression I had after I left the USA to work back in Europe. Quote:
It does Guiseppi Ask Svenn!!! As you may or may not know, health care in Norway is (almost) free. Yes, I know this is hard to believe for most people. Norway was originally supposed to be included in the Michael Moore movie ‘Sicko‘ on the workings/failing of health care systems on this planet, but he decided to take it out because the system has several similarities with the French health care system and some parts just sounded too good to be true…and It does work….. Quote:
Guiseppi Do you still „love“ me after this? 8) Michael |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Tiannia on Feb 5th, 2008, 3:43pm OMG I actually fouynd a comment from a polititian I agree with. Shame he does not have a chance. "I really believe we need a true outsider to address the problems we face. Too many of the potential candidates in 2008 are senators, governors and other professional politicians who have supported greater spending, higher taxes or short-term fixes to long-term problems. America is at a crossroads. Major challenges went unanswered in the Bush administration. A tax system that punishes savings, a social security system bound for demographic disaster, schools that are failing and don’t have much hope of change, health care continuing to be priced out of reach and a war on terror that has still failed to bring the world completely along with our country. I truly do not believe the other potential candidates -- all insiders and professional politicians -- can speak to the American people, gain their trust and move this country forward." - John H. Cox (R-Illinois) He is not a politian, just someone who filed to be in the running. btw - There are some Crazy A$$ people how put in to be on the ballot. |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by brewcrew on Feb 5th, 2008, 4:02pm (Note to self: Stop asking rhetorical questions.) |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Guiseppi on Feb 5th, 2008, 4:44pm But brew, what if there were no rhetorical questions? ::) And of course I still love you Mike. I've been a cop for 28 years. Disagreeing with me is hardly a way to get on my bad side! ;) I enjoy the freedom of debate we have on this board. As long as no one gets personal or nasty it's a great mental excercise! And I wasn't trying to steal the idea of communism from anyone. Just commenting on how neat it would be if it could actually work....but that's getting all rhetorical again! Guiseppi |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by purpleydog on Feb 5th, 2008, 5:08pm on 02/05/08 at 13:41:13, thomas wrote:
What Thomas said. Anyone who looks at propaganda cut and edited together and posted on places like you tube and live leak, and treats it like the gospel, makes me wonder if they really are aware of the real story. It makes me think that a person cannot form an opinion on their own, and prefers to go by what they find on these sites, that suits their opinion of the moment. Does anyone have a link to Hilary's recent plan for healthcare? |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by mummymac on Feb 5th, 2008, 5:16pm on 02/05/08 at 12:09:56, Guiseppi wrote:
Thats a mighty big claim! we have created a country that does more charitable good then all the other countries combined Do you mean for the USA or as overseas aid Is that per country or $ per person of the population count? Can it be backed up by fact. I cannot get my head around the statement "all other countries combined". |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Jonny on Feb 5th, 2008, 6:27pm on 02/05/08 at 17:08:56, purpleydog wrote:
If you EVER find such a link.....email it to Hilliary....looks like she needs it....LMMFAO! [smiley=grin2.gif] http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=557_1202234303 |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Tiannia on Feb 5th, 2008, 7:03pm on 02/05/08 at 16:02:03, brewcrew wrote:
Stop it Brew I work with a bunch of Education Doctorates, and they are ALL Literal. So it is habit to answer everything or they start to teach at me. |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Tiannia on Feb 5th, 2008, 7:06pm on 02/05/08 at 17:08:56, purpleydog wrote:
Supposedly this is it, but I cant get past all the "this is for the good of the people" and find the this is what it will cost and the facts in it. http://www.hillaryclinton.com/feature/healthcareplan/ |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by chewy on Feb 5th, 2008, 7:14pm on 02/05/08 at 17:08:56, purpleydog wrote:
Makes me think its better that they dont vote at all. If you want to know where a candidate is going then you've got to know where he/she has been and an idiotic Live Leak clip wont do it. I usually start here: http://www.senate.gov/ |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Jonny on Feb 5th, 2008, 7:19pm on 02/05/08 at 19:14:39, chewy wrote:
LMAO! :-* :-* :-*.... 8) Edit to add: I guess Uncle Jay is an idiot and just telling lies, huh?.....LOL http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=9a6_1202247218 Hey folks!, how many days a year do you take off? (with pay!) |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Charlie on Feb 5th, 2008, 9:19pm on 02/05/08 at 13:46:29, brewcrew wrote:
George Bush is the greatest exemplar of this. He and his ilk loved trading our liberties to keep us safe. Today's obscene medical expenses ruin families and create misery on every level for the vast majority. This is one area where we need and will have some relief. We won't put up with it much longer. I don't vote against my own self-interests; especially when taking note of the greedy bottom feeders that force our most vulnerable citizens to choose between a place to live or health. It's time. Charlie |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by brewcrew on Feb 5th, 2008, 9:28pm on 02/05/08 at 21:19:34, Charlie wrote:
I can't disagree with your description of the suffocating costs of health care. But nobody trades individual liberties in a representative republic without the consent of the governed. In other words, the president traded the personal liberties of his I'm not into the blame game much anymore. We got what we asked for. |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Charlie on Feb 5th, 2008, 9:55pm Actually, it's nothing new. Every despot since the beginning of time uses instances of fear...witness Germany, 1930s...and the Cold War to grab on a little tighter. It's an old story. Charlie |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Gator on Feb 5th, 2008, 9:57pm on 02/05/08 at 21:19:34, Charlie wrote:
The executive branch of our government, which includes the president, doesn't make law. It enforces it. If you are looking for the cause of the problem, you are going to have to look at the legislative branch, house and senate, where the laws that bind us into slavery are made. BUT!!! If you REALLY want to get to the root of the problem, look in the mirror. We, collectively, send people to congress to do our bidding and then blindly accept the chains they heap upon us. What's worse is we keep sending the same people back over and over. We need to clean house (and senate LOL). If we don't get involved in our own government, then we have no one to blame but ourselves. on 02/05/08 at 21:28:02, brewcrew wrote:
Pretty much. |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Jonny on Feb 5th, 2008, 10:03pm on 02/05/08 at 21:57:43, Gator wrote:
Congress?..........Our Congress? http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2f2_1186497492 According to Chewy, this is just a bunch of lies because it comes from Liveleak, I think we know better! ;) |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Charlie on Feb 5th, 2008, 10:08pm A lot of Republicans are retiring though. The same thing happened to the Democrats in the 90s. I can't say that I'm very impressed with the usual replacements. No Howard Bakers, Barry Goldwaters in the offing...on either side for that matter. It's full of spoiled rich kids today. Charlie |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Linda_Howell on Feb 6th, 2008, 12:02am Quote:
I vote for Thomas. For President. He makes more sense than anyone thus far. |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by lashultz on Feb 6th, 2008, 2:38am I here a lot of Clinton bashing, from some . not all. But as far as I am concerned. What was really wrong with Bill Clinton's presidency? We had no war, inflation was low, the stock market was up, unemployment was low, gas was a buck a gallon. Our medical system is a mess. We spend BILLIONS on a war we can't win, but we can't feed or offer decent healthcare for our own. Lee |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by lashultz on Feb 6th, 2008, 2:44am Sorry, I almost forgot. The budget was balanced. Tough times weren't they. |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Groov on Feb 6th, 2008, 8:52am on 02/06/08 at 02:44:54, lashultz wrote:
Just another reason everyone is sick & tired of politicians Lashultz !!! Remember when that was the case??? They (politicians) tried to fight over who would spend OUR surplus money. That is what makes people jaded. Will have to give Bill something. He actually DID suggest putting the excess on the deficit. That, to me, is responsible, cant take that away from him. No matter how much he bashed the 2nd amendment, he did try to do something right there. But as far as the economy, the President has VERY little to do with business cycles and inflation. Alan Greenspan did a great job at controlling rates etc. If I gave anyone kudos, it would be Alan. As well, the Govt.s job is not to "create" jobs. Our system is run by business and business almost exclusively determines unemployment rate. When we are doing a lot of business, more people are employed. When things are slow...less. Bill or Geo. Bush do not go around starting up new widget factories or Chinese restaurants. Sure, there are some things the Govt. can do which hurt things....like NAFTA. Some actually help, like the US Commerce commission. My Brothers wife is an important person there and she really does a great job at promoting export of our goods and linking US business to foreign buyers. It is truly one of a very few Govt. success stories. As for gas? I have no idea who actually controls the price. If George Bush is as incompetent as he appears to be, I doubt he has the ability. I myself am excited about the possibility of hydrogen cars. Also, a new way to produce alcohol has been found which makes it cheap enough to produce that it may have the potential to be a real contender in the energy race to find alternative sources. Made from any plant like sawgrass, it uses the whole plant, not just the seed like corn...saw it on TDC last night. But it is about 10 years away from possible reality. And yes, the war will cost us all dearly for so many years to come...it is staggering. The only one left who thinks it was a good idea maybe Sean Hannity. And Chewy...sigh, we have all been hearing Hiltlery's endless blather for what? 15 years now? Dont you think Jonnys 2 minute clip was just more of the same and not an actual "determination" for anyone here...give people a little credit here. For me, the last time she was Pesident was enough for me, she just will never get my vote. And as it relates to voting, Brew has a good point. How many damn times have I complained about voting for either of the shitbags they offer us!?!?!? Write in any Constitutionalist candidate you can think of that you like. If there is none, write in yourself. If you do, you will have done better than those who vote for "the lesser of 2 evils" But truthfully, we are so big, have so many people and the problems' solutions are so damn complex...I doubt anyone can fix them easily...maybe at all. I am not under any illusion that if we get in the politician "I" think we need that all of a sudden things will be all peachy. But getting out the bad ones is a good start...gotta start somewhere eh? Cheers, Dave |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by deltadarlin on Feb 6th, 2008, 9:16am Wildhaus, I have a question. If the *public* insurance program is so good, why are you paying for Private also? Guiseppi, Can you find me some numbers that back up what you're saying about the US giving more foreign aid than all other countries combined? http://www.america.gov/st/foraid-english/2007/May/20070524165115zjsredna0.2997553.html Down in this article, there is a statement, "U.S. official development assistance (ODA) in 2005 was $28 billion, the largest of all official donations by an individual country. But, according to the often-quoted measure used by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which compares government aid as a percentage of a country’s gross national income (GNI), U.S. government aid is only 0.22 percent of GNI, which ranks the United States as the 20th of the 22 listed donor states.". Here are some figures on what the US gives to whom (latest figures I could find). Here are the top 16 recipients of U.S. foreign aid for 2005: 1. Israel 2.58 Billion 2. Egypt 1.84 Billion 3. Afganistan 0.98 Billion 4. Pakistan 0.70 Billion 5. Colombia 0.57 Billion 6. Sudan 0.50 Billion 7. Jordan 0.48 Billion 8. Uganda 0.25 Billion 9. Kenya 0.24 Billion 10. Ethiopia 0.19 Billion 11. South Africa 0.19 Billion 12. Peru 0.19 Billion 13. Indonesia 0.18 Billion 14. Bolivia 0.18 Billion 15. Nigeria 0.18 Billion 16. Zambia 0.18 Billion |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Melissa on Feb 6th, 2008, 9:21am I think Guiseppi was talking about the private donations in addition to government donations. When others are looking at what our country gives, they go by the list like Delta listed, but do not factor in what we give privately. Just what I gathered... |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by deltadarlin on Feb 6th, 2008, 9:43am Mel, You may be right here, but I'd still like to see some numbers (sorry, the statitician in m wants to know). |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Melissa on Feb 6th, 2008, 9:47am I'd give you the numbers if I had them, but I have no clue where to look. |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by thomas on Feb 6th, 2008, 9:58am on 02/06/08 at 00:02:07, Linda_Howell wrote:
Thanks for the ringing endorsement, Linda. :) Who knows, I'm old enough now. ;) |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Charlie on Feb 6th, 2008, 10:42am Quote:
The only people that really have fun during these bizarre elections are the news departments of the TV networks. The rest of us cringe, puke, cry, slam the lever down and get a drink. Charlie |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by monty on Feb 6th, 2008, 11:26am on 02/05/08 at 15:27:22, wildhaus wrote:
Yes, Marx and Engels were ethnically Jews. But their ideas were not based on any Rabbinical traditions - they were agnostic/atheist. I think what the original post was getting at was the communal nature of the teachings of Christ and the early Christian churches. |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Jonny on Feb 6th, 2008, 9:35pm HILLARY Clinton denounced Dick Cheney as Darth Vader, but she did not absorb the ultimate lesson of the destructive Vice-President: don't become so paranoid that you let yourself be overwhelmed by a dark vision. I think Hillary truly believes that she and Bill are the only ones tough enough to get to the White House. Jack Nicholson endorsed her as "the best man for the job", and she told David Letterman that "in my White House, we'll know who wears the pantsuits". But her pitch is the colour of pitch. Because she has absorbed all the hate and body blows from nasty Republicans over the years, she is the best person to absorb more hate and body blows from nasty Republicans. Darkness seeking darkness. It's an exhausting spectre, and the reason that Tom Daschle, Ted Kennedy, Claire McCaskill and so many other Democrats are dashing for daylight and trying to break away from the pathological Clinton path. [smiley=grin2.gif] |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by chewy on Feb 6th, 2008, 9:42pm Quote:
She better be careful or Darth Vader will shoot her in the face. Bird Hunting 101. |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Jonny on Feb 6th, 2008, 9:47pm on 02/06/08 at 21:42:57, chewy wrote:
We can only dream cant we? [smiley=grin2.gif] Seeing that you Don and Purpledog have a problem with my thread....why dont you two go start a fucking "I love Hillary" thread and get the fuck off my thread? |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by chewy on Feb 6th, 2008, 10:46pm Quote:
ROFLMAO! You better get outta my sandbox! LMAO! |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Charlie on Feb 6th, 2008, 10:55pm It would be more fun to watch the right really get nasty with Hillary. The more they do the more votes she gets from women. The same goes for Obama.....as boring as I find her, it's beautiful. http://www.netsync.net/users/charlies/gifs/biglaugh.gif Charlie |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by chewy on Feb 6th, 2008, 10:58pm Well Charlie. I dont see it coming from McCain. He's has more class. Romney on the other hand.......... |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Charlie on Feb 6th, 2008, 11:41pm McCain is my guy on the right. My neighbor gets a little paper....something called "Human Events" that thinks McCain is just short of being a Communist naturally, because he thinks that the world is probably more than 6,000 years old. McCain is an old fashioned Republican. A good egg. Also, to him poor people are more than an abstraction, unlike the spoiled millionaires taking up space and soaking up heat in D. C. for the last few years. Charlie |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Gator on Feb 6th, 2008, 11:49pm Yeah, McCain is a real peach... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/mccain-robocalls ...and just as rotten as any other in the basket. ::) |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Charlie on Feb 7th, 2008, 12:02am He lies to the Pat Roberston bunch all the time. Anyone that does that is okay with me. He wouldn't waste time on a "marriage amendment." God what a waste on energy shit like that is. I'll take McCain over anyone else running on the right. Sadly, you have to lie to the bible belters to get a pass in the GOP. That Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter can't stand him is a ringing endorsement here. Charlie |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Callico on Feb 7th, 2008, 12:26am Back to the original premise of this thread, whether or not we want our hard earned money taken by the government for "health insurance". My answer is simple, NO!!! I am one who has to use government medical care, and I would give my eye teeth and about any other part of my body to be able to go back to having my own personal health insurance and health care. I am not a dead beat. Due to circumstances beyond my control my company, that I started was taken over and bankrupted, leaving me out of business and horribly in debt. While trying to find employment that would allow me to get back on my feet financially I came down with Diabetes, was in a car wreck (w/ an uninsured driver) and my back was messed up so that I can no longer do the kind of work I know how to do well. Also during this time my wife was diagnosed with MS. She also has a couple of other chronic illnesses that preclude her from getting any kind of insurance. Neither of us are insurable right now. You have no idea how badly I feel giving a public aid slip to a receptionist when I go in for a Drs appt. Do you have any idea how hard it is to find a competent Dr that will take me? I am fortunate enough that I can drive a little over an hour to Loyola University Medical, and get some great treatment, but only because I am a guinea pig for med students. the only health care I can get here in town is definately low tier help, and often means going to ER because they are the ONLY ones who will take us. As many of you know, the care in ER is abismal. One of the primary reasons for the high cost of insurance is lawyers like the Democratic candidate for President who made a fortune trying cases of malpractice against Obstetricians for babies being born with Cerebral Palsy. As a result of this my wife's OB had to quit delivering babies because his malpractice insurance for OB alone went from $8000/yr to $120,000/ yr. This was in the 80's, and he never had a single suit brought against him. Tort reform, and ending frivolous lawsuits would go a long way to correcting this problem, but adding another layer of government interference will only exacerbate it. Sorry this is so long. Didn't know how to say it shorter and be coherent. Jerry |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Gator on Feb 7th, 2008, 3:09am on 02/07/08 at 00:02:12, Charlie wrote:
Oh, really? [smiley=huh.gif] http://www.americablog.com/2006/11/john-mccain-appears-in-anti-gay-ads-to.html Quote:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/mccain-robocalls Quote:
Like I said, McCain is just more of the same - a rotten peach in a basket full of them. |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by zwibbs/Scott on Feb 7th, 2008, 5:53am Where is that extraterrestrial loving Ross Perot when we really need him to round out this fun loving group of candidates. |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by thomas on Feb 7th, 2008, 8:52am on 02/07/08 at 05:53:47, zwibbs/Scott wrote:
He was nothing but a schill for the Clintons. If you believe anything else, you were bamboozled. EDS won a contract that paid over $390 million per year for administering Medicare -- just in Texas! That's not the cost of the actual health care -- it's purely administrative expense for doing the paperwork. Medicaid is separate, and EDS has similar contracts with states around the country -- using software that they charged the federal government for developing, but kept the rights to. EDS barely turned a profit before it began government work. In 1964, its fourth year, the company made $4,100 on revenue of $400,000. In 1965, when it started government work, that rose to just $26,487 on revenues of $865,000. By 1968, EDS grossed $7.5 million, and made a profit of $2.4 MILLION - nearly 30% profit. And just who do you think was going to get the contracts for the federal health care program if it got passed? hmmmmmmmmmmmm? |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Gator on Feb 7th, 2008, 11:31am on 02/07/08 at 08:52:51, thomas wrote:
I agree. Perot's only purpose in life was to split the republican vote. |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by artonio7 on Feb 7th, 2008, 11:47am on 02/07/08 at 08:52:51, thomas wrote:
Getting rich off of Medicare and Medicaid is not the only political benefit Ross has received from politicians he donated to. He milked the Nixon Administration for everything from meetings with Nixon himself, and getting his mother into a White House prayer breakfast, to having the Social Security Administration drop investigations and release disputed money to EDS ($400,000 in one case). In return, Perot gave lots of money to Nixon, lent him computer expertise and assigned employees to work on his campaign. When the IRS investigated the last part, because Perot deducted their salaries as a business expense, Nixon officials intervened and helped him out. (p52, Posner) Looks like he had a bone to pick with Bush Reagan Administration even gave him access to top secret classified documents in an attempt to answer his relentless criticism of them for not bringing the MIAs back, but Perot only saw what he wanted to, and remains unconvinced. In fact, this was the origin of his feud with George Bush; as VP Bush drew the unpleasant job of telling Perot they were cutting off his top secret clearance, and Perot typically started a no-holds-barred feud with Bush, which in part led to Bill Clinton's election. |
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Title: Re: Do you work hard for your pay? Post by Charlie on Feb 7th, 2008, 10:50pm on 02/07/08 at 03:09:10, Gator wrote:
Oops...How do I do it? I had it backwards. My opinion of McCain has taken a hit. Idiot. I should know better. Come to think of it, I think he stopped in for an appearance with Jerry Falwell once. You're right: Screw him. Too bad though. I had hopes because the far far right thinks he's Satan. I'm pissed now. Sorry Gator. Charlie |
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