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        Daily Chat >> General Posts >> Money To Study?
        
(Message started by: cynjeep89 on Jan 23^rd, 2008, 9:25pm)

Title: Money To Study?
Post by cynjeep89 on Jan 23^rd, 2008, 9:25pm

I found an interesting article on the Baltimore Sun website.

Encouragement vs bribery?

By Nick Madigan | Sun reporter
7:53 PM EST, January 23, 2008

They don't call it bribery. They call it encouragement.

Students at two Baltimore high schools were largely supportive Wednesday of a plan to pay them as much as $110 for improving their scores on state graduation exams.

"Students are going to bust their tails to pass a test if they get money," said Renieka Arnold, a 17-year-old senior at Mergenthaler Vocational-Technical High School in Northeast Baltimore. "For the people who couldn't pass the test, they'd pass it" with the money incentive.

The school system will spend more than $935,000 on the program, part of a $6.3 million plan to help students struggling to pass Maryland's High School Assessments. The city schools' chief, Andres Alonso, also wants to pay students to help tutor others.

For Renieka, who plans to study forensic science starting this fall at the Harrisburg University of Science and Technology in Pennsylvania, failure is not an option. But she said students, like her, who already are succeeding academically need encouragement, too.

"If they pass the test," she said, "they should get more money."

Devon Thompson, 16, took a lighter view. "You can mark me down for two, because I want $220," he said, laughing. Then, referring to Benjamin Franklin's portrait on the $100 bill, he added, "You can put me in there for a Benny."

Some students at Mergenthaler said the payments would help them feel motivated. "I'd pass tests all day, and I'd go to classes," said Ashley Branch, a 17-year-old senior.

Caira Byrd, 14, who wants to be a singer and own a hair salon, said students would naturally try harder "if they'll earn money" by doing so, especially if the result is higher academic achievement.

"I'm not saying people would do anything for money," Byrd said, "but when it comes to grades, they probably would do better."

The immediate reaction of Ardis Fuller III to the news that money might be dished out was not positive.

"It's wrong," said Ardis, a 14-year-old Mergenthaler student. "It's scamming."

After thinking about it, though, Ardis said the proposed cash incentives would "probably" be effective in raising students' test scores, his own included.

His friend Cortez Colclough, also 14, said receiving handouts for doing schoolwork "would be like having a job."

At the wheel of a large sport utility vehicle, Vonda Bolden was dropping off her son, Marshall Hill, 16, at Mergenthaler. She said the proposal to distribute cash would be "a great incentive" for students such as Marshall.

"I think that would push them a little more to do well," she said, before rushing off to deposit her 11-year-old daughter, Victoria, at another school.

Sean Conner, 17, said many students do not attend school precisely because they are working elsewhere to earn cash. "They lose money if they go to school," he said.

The possibility of making as much as $110 under the program is "better than nothing," said Sean, who is studying to be a carpenter. They money would also serve to "knock down your class dues," he went on, referring to the approximately $640 that he said students at Mergenthaler must come up with during their high school years to pay for field trips, proms and other extracurricular activities.

Sean said he was still in the 11th grade after failing first grade. "But I do all my work," he said. "Sometimes I get into trouble, but I do all my work."

At Doris M. Johnson High School, Alexis McDougal, 16, said she did not require an immediate financial incentive to do well in school. She was thinking more long-term.

"I don't need money to complete my goals," she said, alluding to her desire to be both a doctor and a designer of wedding dresses. "I'll do what I need to do. I don't want to end up on the street."

And yet Alishia Wall, another 16-year-old at the Lake Clifton campus, had no doubt that extra cash would do the trick for her more lackluster classmates.

"It'll help them," she said. "Students like money."

nick.madigan@baltsun.com

Title: Re: Money To Study?
Post by brewcrew on Jan 23^rd, 2008, 9:28pm

on 01/23/08 at 21:25:20, cynjeep89 wrote:

Caira Byrd, 14, who wants to be a singer and own a hair salon...

Bzzzzzt. Sorry, Caira. But thanks for playing. You can't have it all.

Title: Re: Money To Study?
Post by Jonny on Jan 23^rd, 2008, 9:40pm

Whatever happen to you got a back hand from the old man if you didnt pass?

It didnt cost the taxpayers nothing.

Title: Re: Money To Study?
Post by cash5542 on Jan 23^rd, 2008, 9:59pm

This is too much! We have been bribing the kids with parties, field trips, and other incentives since all of this testing began. The pressure is just too much for everyone. I hope who ever becomes our next president can put schools back where we are teaching again and not testing.

Charlotte

Title: Re: Money To Study?
Post by nani on Jan 24^th, 2008, 12:27am

on 01/23/08 at 21:25:20, cynjeep89 wrote:

Students at two Baltimore high schools were largely supportive Wednesday of a plan to pay them as much as $110 for improving their scores on state graduation exams.

Sorry, I've got to go with bribery.

Incentive programs have existed for a while in inner city schools. Originally intended to slow drop out rates for schools where kids were having to drop out or watch their grades suffer due to familial responsibility and having to work. The programs proved to be helpful to kids who were motivated and wanted to stay in school.
Obviously. more money could be made with jobs, or illegal activity.

This program appears to be solely motivated by the school district's desire for improved test scores. Which is motivated by the ridiculous No Child Left Behind Act...which has done relatively nothing to address the problems that exist in our Educational system. :-/

If our government and educators can't figure this out...how can we expect all kids to succeed?

edited to add: by educators, I mean administrators, not teachers. The people in the trenches (teachers) have a much better clue.

Title: Re: Money To Study?
Post by sandie99 on Jan 24^th, 2008, 10:24am

When I was a kid, I used to get 10 marks (about 2 euros/3 USD/1.50 GBP) for each 10/A I had in my report card at Spring.

Now that story is something completely different... I bet it would encourage some, but also students would be more and more creative with inventing cheating methods to get more money.

Just the idea of getting a good grade was a reason enough for me to study. Has it really come to this? That there's no other way to inspire students to do their best?

Sanna

Title: Re: Money To Study?
Post by brewcrew on Jan 24^th, 2008, 1:31pm

on 01/24/08 at 10:24:03, sandie99 wrote:

When I was a kid, I used to get 10 marks (about 2 euros/3 USD/1.50 GBP) for each 10/A I had in my report card at Spring.

And who did you get that from? I'm betting it was your parents and not the People's Republic of Finland.

Title: Re: Money To Study?
Post by Paul98 on Jan 24^th, 2008, 4:30pm

What ever happened to Math, ENGLISH, science textbooks? I didn't have any choices of taking science OR self awareness class.

The teachers commanded dicipline, the students sat down, shut up and were tought. Parents were parents. Your reward was not getting punnished when you did well.

There were two tracts kids followed. Higher education and vocational school. Very low drop out rates because you were expected to get through high scool.

What ever happened to truant officers? Do they still have them or would they damage little Timmy's feelings of self worth?

Bribery! It is a failure of the school system and the parents. The kid has one option in my mind. Sit down and shut the fuck up and learn.

-P.

Title: Re: Money To Study?
Post by LeLimey on Jan 24^th, 2008, 4:33pm

Well we have truant officers here LOL

Best ever invention if you ask me! Keep the streets kid free even longer! ;)

Title: Re: Money To Study?
Post by brewcrew on Jan 24^th, 2008, 4:38pm

on 01/24/08 at 16:30:53, Paul98 wrote:

Sit down and shut the fuck up and learn.

I'm sorry, Paul. That is a run-on sentence. It should read as follows:

"Sit down, shut the fuck up and learn."

Or alternately:

"Sit down, shut the fuck up, and learn."

You are going to have to stay after school this afternoon. Please be prepared to write this sentence 100 times while sitting down, shutting the fuck up, and learning.

;)

Title: Re: Money To Study?
Post by Paul98 on Jan 24^th, 2008, 4:43pm

Brew, has anyone ever told you that you were a smartass ;;D

-P.

Title: Re: Money To Study?
Post by Annette on Jan 24^th, 2008, 5:00pm

But doesnt the sentence " sit down and shut the f**k up and learn" means one must be doing all 3 simultaneously ?

While the sentence " sit down, shut the f**k up, and learn " means that one can do so in chronological order ie sit down first then shut up then learn. That might leave a loop hole to allow one to still yack and not learn unless one is sitting down ?

Please, someone teaches me English, I want to pass the next test and make some $$ .

8) ;;D :P

Title: Re: Money To Study?
Post by brewcrew on Jan 24^th, 2008, 5:04pm

on 01/24/08 at 17:00:17, Annette wrote:

Annette, you get a detention just because. ;)

Title: Re: Money To Study?
Post by brewcrew on Jan 24^th, 2008, 5:04pm

on 01/24/08 at 16:43:51, Paul98 wrote:

Brew, has anyone ever told you that you were a smartass ;;D

-P.

Moi? Never.

Title: Re: Money To Study?
Post by Melissa on Jan 24^th, 2008, 5:09pm

When I was in high school, my step dad bribed me $100 to have one semester with all A's & B's. Let's say I got them for one semester, took the money and still didn't give a rats ass about my grades afterwards. From then on I had all letters of the alphabet.

Manipulation at it's finest. ;;D

Title: Re: Money To Study?
Post by Annette on Jan 24^th, 2008, 5:11pm

on 01/24/08 at 17:04:14, brewcrew wrote:

Annette, you get a detention just because. ;)

Story of my life ! ::) [smiley=laugh.gif]

Title: Re: Money To Study?
Post by Annette on Jan 24^th, 2008, 5:15pm

Seriously though, I think Mel hits the nail on the head there, if the sole reason for kids to try at school to get better grade is to get some money then as soon as the money is withdrawn or the kids decide its not enough they will stop trying.

This will teach kids to grow into adults who believe they should only try hard if there is monetary or material rewards, which wont help society.

Editted for rampant spelling mistakes !! Maybe bribery is is needed after all :P

Title: Re: Money To Study?
Post by brewcrew on Jan 24^th, 2008, 5:28pm

I don't know - money is a pretty powerful motivator.

But it's doing the right thing when nobody's looking that brings the biggest rewards. I'm not sure most kids get that. It's only if they make it to adulthood that they can begin to understand the whole "helping your fellow man" thing.

Title: Re: Money To Study?
Post by Paul98 on Jan 24^th, 2008, 7:22pm

on 01/24/08 at 17:28:50, brewcrew wrote:

You got that right Bro! Intangable rewards are sometimes the hardest to work for, but give some of the bigest paybacks.

This "payoff" for students is a cop out by the school system in general. It was the next step from when they decided not to put more effort into teaching but just lowered the bar....Abbra-ca-dabbra! the students are getting better grades! They all stood around slaping themselves on the back.

I think the public school system in the USA started to tank back in the 60's It dosn't take more $$$ to educate a child, it takes dedication and decipline and communication.

-P.

Title: Re: Money To Study?
Post by kcopelin on Jan 24^th, 2008, 7:31pm

Okay, I bride my kids with grade $s. Since its each reporting period...it continues to work...unless they absolutely hate the class or are convinced the teacher is an alien planning to destroy all life as we know it.

kathy

Title: Re: Money To Study?
Post by Paul98 on Jan 24^th, 2008, 7:40pm

on 01/24/08 at 19:31:00, kcopelin wrote:

Okay, I bride my kids with grade $s. Since its each reporting period...it continues to work...unless they absolutely hate the class or are convinced the teacher is an alien planning to destroy all life as we know it.

kathy

Is that like an arranged marriage or something? ;;D

I think it is one thing if the parents of a child give rewards however the school system should not be spending taxpayer $$$ like this.

-P.

Title: Re: Money To Study?
Post by brewcrew on Jan 24^th, 2008, 7:40pm

on 01/24/08 at 19:31:00, kcopelin wrote:

But it's coming out of your pocket, not the taxpayer's. That's the difference. I better not find out that my tax dollars are being used to bribe other people's kids.

Title: Re: Money To Study?
Post by Jonny on Jan 24^th, 2008, 8:19pm

on 01/24/08 at 19:40:24, brewcrew wrote:

But it's coming out of your pocket, not the taxpayer's. That's the difference. I better not find out that my tax dollars are being used to bribe other people's kids.

BINGO!!!!!...Brew

But how do you feel about the goverment bailing out (with OUR tax dollars) people like a chick here in Boston, that was an assitant teacher and bought a house for 470,000 with no down payment...and now she is screaming for us to pay for it.

Without interest its $1300 a month.......what idiot thinks they can afford that?

Hilliarys plan is to tax us to bail these low life idiots out.....vote as you will!

Sorry, back to the thread.

Title: Re: Money To Study?
Post by Paul98 on Jan 24^th, 2008, 8:35pm

Same thing applies there too Jonny. Don't use taxpayers $$ to bail out either dumb people OR dumb buisness.

If a home buyer is "duped" by a mrotgage agent into thinking he can afford a $500,000 dollar house on $30,000 a year income the dumb fuck has no buisness buying a house. For the "house flippers" Sorry folks it was a risk just like the stock market. You take a risk you live with the results. Don't stick your hand in MY pocket.

-P.

Title: Re: Money To Study?
Post by Jonny on Jan 24^th, 2008, 8:40pm

on 01/24/08 at 20:35:23, Paul98 wrote:

You take a risk you live with the results. Don't stick your hand in MY pocket.

But as you know, bro.....that hand WILL be stuck in our pocket no matter what!

Title: Re: Money To Study?
Post by Paul98 on Jan 24^th, 2008, 9:10pm

on 01/24/08 at 20:40:39, Jonny wrote:

But as you know, bro.....that hand WILL be stuck in our pocket no matter what!

Sad but true. And sometimes it is stuck in the backside as well ;)

-P.

Title: Re: Money To Study?
Post by cynjeep89 on Jan 24^th, 2008, 11:15pm

Seems Atlanta has a pay to learn program but with private funding.

Paying Students To Learn
By Bridget Gutierrez | Tuesday, January 22, 2008, 01:37 PM

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

With metro Atlanta public schools regularly offering goodies — such as MP3 players and bikes — to encourage students to attend classes, perhaps it was only a matter of time local educators decided to bait kids with cold hard cash.

According to a media advisory e-mailed to reporters this morning, Fulton County Schools will announce a new “Learn & Earn” initiative Thursday that will “test the hypothesis that extrinsic motivation (pay for attendance and participation) will improve academic performance….”

(Seriously, folks. I’m not making this up.)

For 15 weeks, 40 selected eighth-graders from Bear Creek Middle School and 11th-graders from Creekside High School — both in Fairburn — will be paid to attend free after-school tutoring in math and science

According to the news advisory, the plan was conceived by former U.S. House Speaker Newt Gingrich and will be privately funded by Charles Loudermilk, founder of the Aaron Rents furnishings company.

“There are numerous variables involved when a student performs below expectations in school, including economics,” the e-mail stated. “The study seeks to show whether monetary incentives do, in fact, improve classroom attendance, grades and test scores.”

I wonder if it will also determine whether kids learn the value of an education?

UPDATE: AJC education reporter Michelle Shaw got some interesting reactions to Fulton’s initiative. Kati Haycock, president of the Washington-based Education Trust, which advocates for minority students, told her: “Are there risks of this? Sure. But are there risks of not trying it? Oh yeah, probably bigger ones.”

Title: Re: Money To Study?
Post by sandie99 on Jan 25^th, 2008, 1:03pm

on 01/24/08 at 13:31:20, brewcrew wrote:

And who did you get that from? I'm betting it was your parents and not the People's Republic of Finland.

Yes, my parents gave me that money.

Finland did give me 3 scholarships, 2 of them books. ;;D

Sanna

Title: Re: Money To Study?
Post by Annette on Jan 25^th, 2008, 2:13pm

on 01/25/08 at 13:03:37, sandie99 wrote:

Yes, my parents gave me that money.

Finland did give me 3 scholarships, 2 of them books. ;;D

Sanna

Thats the way it should be !

Title: Re: Money To Study?
Post by Tiannia on Jan 25^th, 2008, 5:31pm

on 01/24/08 at 16:30:53, Paul98 wrote:

This is not allowed anymore. Now everything is PBS (Positive Behavior Support) I work in PBS Central. The program that I am working for is for the one of the 2 men who started the PBS movement, and got the first federally funded grants to develop it.

The idea is that you reward good behavior and (well dont ignore) but dont hammer kids for negative behavior. hehe I have already learned that you can sad "bad".

Title: Re: Money To Study?
Post by Tiannia on Jan 25^th, 2008, 5:33pm

on 01/24/08 at 23:15:57, cynjeep89 wrote:

This is part of the PBS stuff too. If schools work within the PBS guidelines then they get State and Federal money to have reward programs.