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        New Message Board Archives >> Oct-Dec 2003 >> Hypothetical Question?
        
(Message started by: Jimmy_B on Nov 29^th, 2003, 8:33am)

Title: Hypothetical Question?
Post by Jimmy_B on Nov 29^th, 2003, 8:33am

I think a lot of the reasons a Cluster sufferer is so against Narcotics is:
In the time before Trex & such...a lot of Doctor's had us on Narcotics & we found it didn't help too much & when we went to get a refill they would treat us like addicts. Or we heard the news about these Drugs & how all these wonderful people are getting hopelessly addicted, i.e. Rush Limbaugh

Which leads me to this hypothetical question:

If Worldwide Pharmaceutical Company found a compound that would completely alleviate all Cluster Headache Symptoms with (let's say) 1 - pill very 24 hours....But one of the warnings was "May cause addiction or dependence". & the DEA had to classify it as a schedule II narcotic.

Would you take it? [smiley=huh.gif]

Jim

Title: Re: Hypothetical Question?
Post by Paigelle on Nov 29^th, 2003, 8:39am

Now, are we going to basically get immune to this pill and want more than 1 pill after taking it for awhile or what? How loopy is it going to make us?

I ask this because my Dr gave me percocet and it helps for awhile and then of course I am hit with another. I could be stoned out of my ever beloved mind because of it, so I suffer.

I guess if it was one pill, I could take it at night, it wouldn't make me too loopy, I wouldn't become immune and crave more, and it's guaranteed to make the CH stop - okay send me some. It would be better than taking 1-2 prevents, 1-2 abortives, and then still being miserable.

Title: Re: Hypothetical Question?
Post by brain_cramps on Nov 29^th, 2003, 9:03am

on 11/29/03 at 08:39:19, Paigelle wrote:

are we going to basically get immune to this pill and want more than 1 pill after taking it for awhile or what?

I think that is one of the most important questions. "Tolerance", "dependence" and addiction go hand-in-hand, being VERY hard to separate one from each other.

Are there any OTHER side effects and/or risks besides addiction?

Does it make the cycle last longer?

If the answer to all of these was NO and my cycles were longer than they are (or I was chronic), I don't think I'd have a problem with the addiction.

Also, what are the side-effects of this particular addiction?

I've been through narcotic addiction (or at least that's what the doctor told me) in the 80s, am currently a "recovering alcoholic" (still feels weird to say that), and am definitely no stranger to "substance abuse". LOL

All of that aside, if I had longer cycles than I do (or was chronic), addiction might be outweighed by the chance to live a pain-free, "normal" (LOL) lifestyle.

grant

Title: Re: Hypothetical Question?
Post by don on Nov 29^th, 2003, 9:04am

Hypothetical answer.

NO

Title: Re: Hypothetical Question?
Post by Jimmy_B on Nov 29^th, 2003, 9:30am

Alright...we got two-Well maybe...but I don't knows & one NO.

The reason I'm asking is if anyone has kept up with my posts All the Imitrex type drugs has me running to the E.R thinking I'm having a Coronary. O2 doesn't help...so I'm stuck with only Verapamil & the Doctor gives me a Narcotic when I'm in cycle.

I have never had any problem with coming off the Narcotic. (Even when on it for 1 time 5 months 3 to 4 pills a day). After the cycle is done, Doctor has me withdraw off the narcotic for a couple of weeks, I get a little sick & maybe a little more depressed for a couple of days & then all is right with the world, again.

I read that the actual true iatrogenic addiction rate of Narcotics is 4 to 5 percent of off/on users & 3 percent for chronic users....But then I hear horror stories from other people who say that they would sell their kids for a little more.

So, I wanted to see if the pain of a cluster would make the decision easier for others.

Thanks,

Jim

Title: Re: Hypothetical Question?
Post by Patrick_A on Nov 29^th, 2003, 9:39am

If this so called pill would completely stop the pain, and all i had to do was wean myself from it after my cycle. The hypothetical answer would be an unequivacably...,

Yes

Patrick

Title: Re: Hypothetical Question?
Post by eyes_afire on Nov 29^th, 2003, 12:17pm

Hi Jimmy,

That's a tough question. It really depends on so many things. How addictive would this substance be? Just because it's a schedule II doesn't mean its a guarantee habit-former. I've taken Methylphenidate (Ritalin, schedule II) and had absolutely no problem discontinuing it. But then there was Paxil (not even a schedule IV or 'list chemical') which caused a horrible dependence... took me 3 tries to quit and was sick for a month. I'm not the only one that had that problem with Paxil... others have said that it was harder to break than their cocaine addiction. But when I hear of people getting addicted to codeine... that is beyond my comprehension... sure I think the initial heightened focus is good but then it just makes me feel sleepy, sore and messes up my stomach.

Personally, I hate the way narcotics make me feel, so it would have to be a situation where nothing else is working. Would it be any different then my current 'dependence' on verapamil? Right now I'm good... unless I stop taking verapmil. At fourfuckingthirty a.m. a CH will make you take things you wouldn't have imagined, so I certainly won't rule out your pill as a viable solution.

Based on my experience with Methylphenidate, Paxil, Codeine, and Psilocybin (schedule I) I find the DEA classifications a bit confusing. I think alot depends on your individual chemistry. But make no mistake, a true chemical dependence is a horrible thing. Trying to quit that fucking Paxil nearly ruined me.

--- Steve

Title: Re: Hypothetical Question?
Post by thomas on Nov 29^th, 2003, 1:57pm

No, sorry, I've got an addictive personality - can't be messing around with that kind of stuff.

Title: Re: Hypothetical Question?
Post by stevegeebe on Nov 29^th, 2003, 2:09pm

Me too Tom.

No.

Steve G

Title: Re: Hypothetical Question?
Post by Jimmy_B on Nov 29^th, 2003, 2:34pm

How's it going Eyes...long time no see....

I hear you on the Paxil issue. My daughter was taking it & we went on Vacation down Wildwood and of course, she forgot her Paxil. She got sick as a dog. Had to drive two & 1/2 hours back home to get her script.

To clarify... all the side effects, risk of addiction, etc...would be the same as an opioid-based pain-killer. Fentanyl, oxycodone, hydrocodone, morphine, etc...

Tough choice for episodics...but it should be a no-brainer for chronics

Jim

Title: Re: Hypothetical Question?
Post by sandie99 on Nov 30^th, 2003, 6:48am

Well, if it would be 100% sure that it would take my pain away... hypothetically, my answer would be yes.

Title: Re: Hypothetical Question?
Post by BlueMeanie on Nov 30^th, 2003, 8:32am

That sure is a hard question to answer. I think if there was NO Imitrex, I probably would. I would keep it on standby, but after about (4) KIP 10's in a row, I would break down and take it.

Title: Re: Hypothetical Question?
Post by 12gagueblast on Nov 30^th, 2003, 12:18pm

Anybody ever ask a diabetic if they are afraid of becoming addicted to insulin? I am assuming there arnt terrible sideffects but yea i'd take it in a minute.

Title: Re: Hypothetical Question?
Post by mikeyd on Nov 30^th, 2003, 12:42pm

anything that gets rid of these damn headaches and works is an addiction for a clusterhead! I'm addicted to verap, DHE and oxygen myself...at least for another few weeks....lol [smiley=laugh.gif].

Title: Re: Hypothetical Question?
Post by Karla on Nov 30^th, 2003, 12:58pm

Yes I would take it. Anything to give me a quality of life back.

Title: Re: Hypothetical Question?
Post by 5-string on Nov 30^th, 2003, 1:11pm

Yes, narcotics are addictive. so is alcohol. I know many people how have lost EVERYTHING because of alcohol. Does that mean that alcohol is bad and no-one should touch the stuff? Of course not. And alcohol is consumed strickly for the side effect. So, In my humble though experienced opinion, Addiction is an individuals issue not the products. I am an alcoholic and it is not in my best interest to attempt any mood altering drug use(yes,that includes alcohol).I can't risk it. But that's my condition.
If you can take something as prescribed, and throw the remainding pills away went no longer needed and not be bothered with it, I admire you. I can't so I don't.
I'd have to pass.
BTW- Did you really mean to put Rush Limbaugh next to the term:wonderful people????????? [smiley=smartass.gif]
...Mark..

Title: Re: Hypothetical Question?
Post by Jimmy_B on Nov 30^th, 2003, 1:45pm

on 11/30/03 at 13:11:44, 5-string wrote:

BTW- Did you really mean to put Rush Limbaugh next to the term:wonderful people????????? [smiley=smartass.gif]
...Mark..

Just being sarcastic...You caught me. ;;D

Jim

Title: Re: Hypothetical Question?
Post by Mikey on Nov 30^th, 2003, 6:04pm

Chronic here and YES, I do take narcotics and I would take that pill in a heartbeat. There's no cure for CH and just like some of the others have said, we're kind of already addicted to such things such as Verap, Lithium, O2, so if there is another tool in our arsenal that we can take to help us have any kind of normal life I'm all for it. I will worry about the addiction when I'm suddenly cured from CH or no longer have any pain from it at all. So my answer is a definate yes.

Mikey

Title: Re: Hypothetical Question?
Post by pubgirl on Nov 30^th, 2003, 6:23pm

I'd like to say No because I'm another one with 'an addictive personality' (never do anything by halves in my life - full on or nothing)

but....
when I was undiagnosed and in agony I took everything I could find in the house......then I took more.
Not good.
Suspect if I was offered this hypothetical drug therefore I would take it.

Wendy

Title: Re: Hypothetical Question?
Post by Hamster on Dec 1^st, 2003, 1:23pm

How many do you want Wend? ;;D

I'm a YES.

ATB:)
Hampster