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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Cluster Headache Specific >> Joys of the night
        
(Message started by: Ungweliante on May 19^th, 2008, 9:52pm)

Title: Joys of the night
Post by Ungweliante on May 19^th, 2008, 9:52pm

It's 04:38 in the night and I'm up. Yeah, another attack. I just tried 100% oxygen administered through a high-quality CH mask I ordered all the way from Denmark at 10 liters / minute and it did absolutely nothing for the attack.

I've also been munching 120 mg of verapamil per day, which led to incredible bloating and constipation and had to be discontinued. 9mg of melatonin before bed did absolutely nothing for the attacks either. Current treatment is 1200mg of valproic acid per day, at two 600mg doses...and the effect is, you guessed it, nada, zero, zilch, nothing. Been taking it since 12th of this month, 900mg per day since 6th day and 600mg since 26th of last month. I mentioned lithium to the neuro I've been seeing and he seemed kinda apprehensive. Apparently it's "bad stuff". At least the neuro is really sweet, and would prolly prescribe it, if really necessary.

So far the -only- thing which is helping is steroids. I seriously need to find something that works. I really really do. Like perhaps stop eating and sleeping, seeing as those two things seem to be major triggers for these attacks?

...sigh. I hope I didn't depress anyone with this.

Rosa

Title: Re: Joys of the night
Post by Brew on May 19^th, 2008, 9:59pm

on 05/19/08 at 21:52:00, Ungweliante wrote:

I mentioned lithium to the neuro I've been seeing and he seemed kinda apprehensive. Apparently it's "bad stuff".

Then your neuro is a sweet idiot. You should give it a try. Either by itself or in combination with verapamil. Many here have found it to be a magic bullet, myself included.

Title: Re: Joys of the night
Post by barry_sword on May 19^th, 2008, 10:47pm

Hi, and sorry you are getting hit. This is just me but I needed 480 mg Verapamil daily, the lower doses did nothing, but my CH's backed off once I went to 480 mg daily.

I hope you find what work's for you, and the o2 must be taken at the very first sign of an on-coming hit, and at 15 LPM to saturate your system ASAP!

With Verapamil, you will need a fibre cereal, trust me on that one. Keeps all moving. ;)

Barry :)

Title: Re: Joys of the night
Post by mezza on May 19^th, 2008, 11:58pm

Hey

sorry you're still suffering! I hate that uncontrollable kind of feeling-

I too like barry had to increase my verapamil to get the desired effect. I take 660 mg a day. I am now tapering off the bedtime dose - and still no hits ( had some shadows last week but none this week)

Seems like brew said that perhaps a combo of meds with effective doses might do the trick- If i needed to take lithium - I'd do it if helped with my pain- seems like enough people here are taking it and found it to be very effective

Sounds like its time to revisit the doctor to get a better plan going! Hang in there

kelly

Title: Re: Joys of the night
Post by DennisM1045 on May 20^th, 2008, 6:30am

Hi Rosa,

120mg of Verapamil is a pretty low dose. I had to switch from the sustained release formulation to the regular release type. Then I slowly went up by 40mg a day to get to my current 400mg / day which is very effective.

On the constapation front, try Mirilax. Not sure what it's called out your way. It's not a laxative, is very mild and works like a champ to keep the plumbing moving.

http://www.miralax.com/default.html

Lithium is scary for any Dr that isn't used to perscribing it. We clusterheads only need half what they typical bipolar sufferer needs. The complication for the Dr and you would be the blood work needed to check your levels.

Take a copy of Dr Rosen's article back with you next time. Maybe it'll get the conversation headed in the right direction.

http://www.plainboard.com/ch/chtherapy.pdf

Good luck...

-Dennis-

Title: Re: Joys of the night
Post by thomas on May 20^th, 2008, 8:44am

on 05/19/08 at 21:52:00, Ungweliante wrote:

10 liters / minute and it did absolutely nothing for the attack.

You need more O2 15-25 lpm.

Title: Re: Joys of the night
Post by sandie99 on May 20^th, 2008, 11:01am

Rosa,

I'm so sorry you're hurting... [smiley=hug.gif][smiley=hug.gif][smiley=hug.gif][smiley=hug.gif][smiley=hug.gif]

Wishing you PF time asap,
Sanna

Title: Re: Joys of the night
Post by Linda_Howell on May 20^th, 2008, 12:46pm

I'm with Thomas, Rosa.

UP...that 02 to at least 15 lpm. That could well be the reason it isn't working for you.

Title: Re: Joys of the night
Post by sandie99 on May 20^th, 2008, 1:07pm

We in here know about the 15lpm recommendation, but unfourtunately, the Finnish guidelines do not. According to the brand new guidelines in here, oxygen is (finally!) included, but at 7-10 lpm. :(

Sanna

Title: Re: Joys of the night
Post by Ungweliante on May 20^th, 2008, 4:24pm

Well, I'm now on topiramate. Gonna taper valproic acid down and topiramate up at the same time, up to 100mg per day. Hopefully it'll help. I also got 5mg nasal zolmitriptan sprays.

on 05/19/08 at 21:59:13, Brew wrote:

Then your neuro is a sweet idiot. You should give it a try. Either by itself or in combination with verapamil. Many here have found it to be a magic bullet, myself included.

on 05/19/08 at 22:47:41, barry_sword wrote:

Hi, and sorry you are getting hit. This is just me but I needed 480 mg Verapamil daily, the lower doses did nothing, but my CH's backed off once I went to 480 mg daily. With Verapamil, you will need a fibre cereal, trust me on that one. Keeps all moving. ;)

on 05/20/08 at 06:30:09, DennisM1045 wrote:

The problem is...I've always had a problem with constipation and just 120mg of Verapamil per day made things go absolutely out of control. -Nothing- moved whatsoever. The neuro thought that discontinuing Verapamil at that point was the only sane thing to do...I had already taken maximum doses of Miralax and Laxoberon, two types of laxatives, together, in the span of two days. He would have also wanted to admit me to a clinic to flush the stuff out in the span of several hours. I think he is very sweet, as neurologists go :) As things went, the clinic didn't have the necessary equipment for that and when I discontinued Verap, things normalized themselves in a couple of days. Thanks for the ideas, though :)

on 05/20/08 at 06:30:09, DennisM1045 wrote:

Lithium is scary for any Dr that isn't used to perscribing it. We clusterheads only need half what they typical bipolar sufferer needs. The complication for the Dr and you would be the blood work needed to check your levels.

Take a copy of Dr Rosen's article back with you next time. Maybe it'll get the conversation headed in the right direction.

http://www.plainboard.com/ch/chtherapy.pdf

Good luck...

-Dennis-

I always take the articles with me, by the way. Some doctors find this offensive, but this doctor appreciates it a lot. He was still quite apprehensive about prescribing lithium. He said that it would have more severe side-effects and I would have to be very careful about it. According to him, topiramate would be a much safer and altogether a much better choice if it works.

I asked him about Topimax having the "dopey" effect and he said that it would usually pass within a couple of weeks of using it.

on 05/20/08 at 13:07:28, sandie99 wrote:

on 05/20/08 at 12:46:14, Linda_Howell wrote:

I'm with Thomas, Rosa.

UP...that 02 to at least 15 lpm. That could well be the reason it isn't working for you.

on 05/20/08 at 08:44:28, thomas wrote:

You need more O2 15-25 lpm.

I already tried gaseous release O2 at 15 liters per minute, although I had a lesser quality mask then. It seemed to lower the pain a bit, it came back in just a couple of minutes. Now that I have the liquid oxygen, I also have a high quality oxygen mask from Headachemasters.com The valves seem to work well, no air that I exhale seems to go to the reservoir bag. I guess I need to try this stuff still a bit better, but at least the first time I tried it the stuff didn't work. It was one of those nightly attacks, which escalate quickly and it's SO annoying to get out of bed, dead tired...maybe I should have been quicker, though [smiley=gocrazy.gif]

But yeah, the valve of the gaseous release form oxygen bottle reaches 15 liters per minute. The liquid oxygen reservoir is 14 times larger, but only has max 10 liters per minute release speed. The gas company promised to call me about this the minute they get better valves for the liquid oxygen reservoirs.

Other than that, there weren't really any problems with the release speed of oxygen from the gas company :)

on 05/20/08 at 11:01:19, sandie99 wrote:

Rosa,

I'm so sorry you're hurting... [smiley=hug.gif][smiley=hug.gif][smiley=hug.gif][smiley=hug.gif][smiley=hug.gif]

Wishing you PF time asap,
Sanna

on 05/19/08 at 23:58:22, mezza wrote:

Hey

sorry you're still suffering! I hate that uncontrollable kind of feeling-

on 05/19/08 at 22:47:41, barry_sword wrote:

Hi, and sorry you are getting hit.

Thanks. It really does mean much [smiley=hug.gif] Sometimes it's difficult to stay strong when the beast comes around, over and over again...

Title: Re: Joys of the night
Post by Brew on May 20^th, 2008, 4:47pm

You know, the binding effect that verapamil has - lithium can have a slightly opposite effect. You should at least ask to try it by itself.

Title: Re: Joys of the night
Post by Linda_Howell on May 20^th, 2008, 8:55pm

Quote:

According to the brand new guidelines in here, oxygen is (finally!) included, but at 7-10 lpm.

Hmmm. O.k. Sanna and Rosa. Are you saying that you are not able to even GET a regulator that goes to 15-to-25 lpm in Finland? Or are you saying the the guidelines your country imposes are what you WANT to follow.?

If it were me.....I'd say screw the guidelines and do what I know will work to relieve me of pain. The people making those guidelines, I am certain don't suffer from CH.