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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Cluster Headache Specific >> Food Triggers???
        
(Message started by: MinxKittten on Apr 16^th, 2008, 2:32am)

Title: Food Triggers???
Post by MinxKittten on Apr 16^th, 2008, 2:32am

Well, from what i can tell, not alot of you have "EATING" as a trigger for CH. but my husband, when he is in cycle, has major touble with eating. seems like when he eats, he gets a CH within about an hour.

i'm convinced that certain foods have to be worse for him than others, but i can't find any reliable info on this.

i was thrilled to find a book called the "headache prevention cook book" only to be bummed that half the reviews on it were NEGATIVE.

so maybe yall can help me figure out what foods he should avoid and more importantly, what foods he CAN eat without getting a headache. (poor guy is starving) as starving for him is better than more CH.

here's what i know so far:

1. of course we avoid the well known triggers like wine, alcohol, chocolate, MSG and cheese.

2. last week the doc told us to avoid nitrites found in most cold cuts, processed meats, hot dogs and pork.

3. my personal observation believes that vinagar based salad dressing gives him a more severe CH, (although he doesn't believe it)

4. thought i read somewhere that tomatoes were a trigger, which i'm assuming would include salsa, again i can't get him to accept that.

5. 90% of the canned soups out there have MSG >:(

PLEASE HELP ME try to figure out what might go down smoother and is easy to digest without being a HA trigger.

i'm open to any and all suggestions.

Title: Re: Food Triggers???
Post by cluster on Apr 16^th, 2008, 3:38am

Have a look at this article: http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?dce62002-dd58-4b18-80da-eaacf187588e

Google search results for "hidden MSG":
http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GFRC_deGB207GB207&q=hidden+msg

Some german CH patients report some benefit from a low purine diet, for a brief explanation of this diet see http://www.joint-pain.com/low-purine-diet.html

My personal experience with CH is that I think I have to avoid MSG and food which has a high content of histamine or food and medications which release histamine. In this article (which has nothing to do with CH) there is some information about histamine: http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/85/5/1185

Best wishes!
Friedrich

Title: Re: Food Triggers???
Post by Bob_Johnson on Apr 16^th, 2008, 8:55am

A search in Pub Med (the bible for medical literature) reveals a no current report on the relationship between CH and diet. The most "current" abstract was from the mid-1980s.

The only "food" which we accept as being an important trigger is alcohol and even here, a single report from Europe, several years ago, suggested that white wine was the exception. (I think many folks would add solvents as a trigger.)

When this site was first started, the issue of food triggers was a major topic. In time, it was clear that this was largely speculative for limited clinical trials didn't confirm foods as being a widely based/consistent trigger.

Individual variation is always a possibility but, it appears that food, as a general issue, is not something which most people have to be concerned about.

Title: Re: Food Triggers???
Post by seasonalboomer on Apr 16^th, 2008, 9:19am

Every time I've thought I'd figured out a food trigger, I later prove it wrong.

Alcohol, when in cycle, is the only ingestible trigger I have - red wine and chocolate combined, is a supercharged versino of the same thing.

Scott

Title: Re: Food Triggers???
Post by Guiseppi on Apr 16^th, 2008, 10:03am

I guess I'm fortunate as alcohol is the only consisten food trigger for me. Funny though, if I "starve myself" like your husband is doing, that is allow myself to get reallly really hungry, that's a trigger for me.

Said it before but deserves repeating, you're a hell of a supporter, thanks.

Guiseppi

Title: Re: Food Triggers???
Post by darknight on Apr 16^th, 2008, 11:42am

Ive never experienced a ch attack from food but i have when i miss meals!!!

Title: Re: Food Triggers???
Post by AussieBrian on Apr 16^th, 2008, 12:01pm

AussieBrian's Famous Meatloaf

Equal parts ground beef and sausage meat.
Chopped onion, garlic, finely-sliced celery and a beaten egg.
Salt, pepper, rosemary, thyme, Worcestershire sauce, breadcrumbs.
One quarter of 10% of a small baby carrot, finely grated, sliced, diced, boiled and pureed.

Mix all ingredients well and form into a 'loaf'. Bake in a medium/hot oven for 1hr 30mins, basting between beers, then decant and allow 15 minutes to set.

Great served hot with pan gravy and seasonal vegetables or chilled, fine sliced, to go with fresh salad or onto sandwiches.

Disclaimer: If cooking for CHeads, consider cutting back on the carrot.

Bon apetit,

B.

Title: Re: Food Triggers???
Post by AlienSpaceGuy on Apr 16^th, 2008, 12:13pm

The most important thing is to forget about that infamous migraine trigger list. It contains everything that that some migraineur in the last 200 years thought it might be a trigger.

Furthermore, migraine trigger are thought to last for 24 hours. For CH the effect of a trigger is immediate, less than 5 minutes in case of alcohol, up to about half an hour for something that goes through the intestines.

I've never heard that chocolate or nitrites are triggers for CH. Fully ripened cheese can contain lots of histamines that might be a trigger for some; the usual rubbery cheese does not have a large amount histamines.

If he is sensitive to MSG (like myself) salad is probably a trigger: A few years ago I checked out about 20 brands of vinegar and ready-made salad dressing and all but one were laced with MSG, one really obnoxious vinegar was MSG free. Therefore, I have given up salad. But if your DH insists on salad, a replacement for MSG loaded vinegar would be lemon juice (but check for MSG ;)).

Tomatoes are sometimes sprayed with MSG, but by cooking them some natural MSG develops.

In the declarations (if any) MSG is usually hidden by euphemisms like flavor-enhancers, natural flavorings, hydrolyzed vegetable protein, yeast extract and many more.

For Friedrich:
I wouldn't trust an article that put aspartame and MSG in the same pot.

There is a year long defamation campaign in e-mails and all sort of 'health related' articles, probably originating from the sugar industry. Read what snopes.com (http://search.atomz.com/search/?sp-q=aspertam&getit=Go&sp-a=00062d45-sp00000000&sp-advanced=1&sp-p=all&sp-w-control=1&sp-w=alike&sp-date-range=-1&sp-x=any&sp-c=100&sp-m=1&sp-s=0) has to say about these horror stories.

On the other hand The Truth about MSG (http://www.truthinlabeling.org/) not only exposes all the hazards of this nerve poison, but also exposes the tricks and cheats its lobby uses to play down the dangers.

[smiley=smokin.gif]

Title: Re: Food Triggers???
Post by MJ on Apr 16^th, 2008, 12:15pm

I think many of us at one time felt various foods were triggers of CH.

Like Boomer said next time around we found what we thought were triggers were not.

I phsycologically without real proof feel strawberries and high acid citrus are stiil possible triggers in a deep cycle.

Definate triggers for me are perfumes, alcohol and Walmart.

Title: Re: Food Triggers???
Post by CostaRicaKris on Apr 16^th, 2008, 2:02pm

on 04/16/08 at 12:01:19, AussieBrian wrote:

How do you cut back on "One quarter of 10% of a small baby carrot, finely grated, sliced, diced, boiled and pureed."?

Seriously, I was going to make meatloaf tonight. THanks for the recipe.

Title: Re: Food Triggers???
Post by Sandy_C on Apr 16^th, 2008, 5:49pm

I absolutely cannot touch beer and wine especially red wine, while in cycle, although I can drink vodka with a little tonic?????

The only other food group that seems to trigger a CH hit while in cycle, although not always, is beef (red meat).

I love a good, rare steak, but when in cycle, it's not on my menu, much to my husband's dismay. He goes through my entire cycle eating chicken, pasta, chicken, pasta, and maybe, if he's been really good, a little bit of spare ribs.

I'm just not willing to risk red meat, beer or wine in cycle. It's not worth it.

Sandy

Title: Aspartame and nitroglycerin
Post by cluster on Apr 18^th, 2008, 5:02am

on 04/16/08 at 12:13:34, AlienSpaceGuy wrote:

For Friedrich:
I wouldn't trust an article that put aspartame and MSG in the same pot.

There is a year long defamation campaign in e-mails and all sort of 'health related' articles, probably originating from the sugar industry. Read what snopes.com (http://search.atomz.com/search/?sp-q=aspertam&getit=Go&sp-a=00062d45-sp00000000&sp-advanced=1&sp-p=all&sp-w-control=1&sp-w=alike&sp-date-range=-1&sp-x=any&sp-c=100&sp-m=1&sp-s=0) has to say about these horror stories.

On the other hand The Truth about MSG (http://www.truthinlabeling.org/) not only exposes all the hazards of this nerve poison, but also exposes the tricks and cheats its lobby uses to play down the dangers.

[smiley=smokin.gif]

Hello Ueli,

here is a CH patient's report about a single blinded, placebo controlled aspartame self test:

Quote:

(Google translation)

The thing with the aspartame, I investigated further. With my wife, I have two weeks a "blind test". We ate every day as dessert Quark. In the two weeks this was 10 days sweetened with sugar and four days (which I did not know) with sweetener (aspartame). The result was clear! In the two weeks I got four seizures, each immediately after the enjoyment of aspartame. I now avoid the stuff and the other triggers (Glutamate etc. when possible).

Source (German): http://www.clusterheadaches.de/Berichte/Bericht_1/bericht_1.html

Please see also: Google search results for aspartame at ch.com (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GFRC_deGB207GB207&q=aspartame+site:clusterheadaches%2ecom)

From the link you posted above: (The Truth about MSG (http://www.truthinlabeling.org/))

Quote:

With one exception, aspartame and processed free glutamic acid (MSG) cause identical adverse reactions in people who are sensitive to them.(2) In addition, the free glutamic acid found in MSG and the free aspartic acid found in aspartame both have been shown to kill brain cells and cause subsequent endocrine disorders in laboratory animals.(4) (We don't do such experiments on humans.)

Aspartame and processed free glutamic acid (MSG) cause identical adverse reactions ???

Now to something completely different:

In 1968 Ekbom(1) reported latency periods between 12 and 72 minutes after the sublingual administration of 1mg nitroglycerin and the induced CH attacks. 2004 Sances(2) reported latency periods of 65.4 ± 54.7 min. (mean ± standard deviation), range: 15 – 180 min., after sublingual administration of 0.9 mg nitroglycerin sublingually and subsequent CH attacks.

Please see also: http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/120/2/283 - The free full text PDF is available there.

Nitroglycerin sublingually works within minutes for the treatment of angina pectoris, but it seems to take a much longer time before CH attacks are induced?

Digestion and metabolism of food can take several hours. See e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digestion

on 04/16/08 at 12:13:34, AlienSpaceGuy wrote:

For CH the effect of a trigger is immediate, less than 5 minutes in case of alcohol, up to about half an hour for something that goes through the intestines.

Why do you think this ? - Any sound scientific reasons ?

1. Ekbom K.: Nitrolglycerin as a provocative agent in cluster headache. Arch Neurol. 1968; 19(5): 487-93. PMID 4971733.
2. Sances G, Tassorelli C, Pucci E, Ghiotto N, Sandrini G, Nappi G.: Reliability of the nitroglycerin provocative test in the diagnosis of neurovascular headaches. Cephalalgia. 2004 Feb; 24(2): 110-9. PMID 14728706

More data about the nitroglycerin provocative test and latency periods (German):
http://www.ck-wissen.de/ckwiki/index.php?title=Nitroglyzerin-Provokationstest

pf wishes,
Friedrich

Title: Diet ???
Post by cluster on Apr 18^th, 2008, 5:06am

Some more information about low purine and low histamine diet:

Edith and Herbert Renneberg have recorded in detail what Herbert has eaten and what his cluster headache pattern was for more than 18 years. Their conclusion/hypothesis is that a low purine diet, strictly adhered to for about two weeks is beneficial for him. After the two weeks he gradually starts to include normal food into his diet and stays pain free. Some German CH patients have tried a low purine diet with success and some others have tried it without success. A low purine diet (sometimes called gout diet) may not give the full nutrition value required, so nobody should be on such a diet for too long. The target of such a diet is to reduce levels of uric acid in the body. A "side effect" of the diet may be the avoidance of individual CH food triggers, if there are any.

For purine and purine content of food see e.g.:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purine

http://www.webmd.com/hw-popup/diet-and-gout

Histamine and perhaps other biogenic amines (WP Link biogenic amine) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biogenic_amine) may have an influence on cluster headache; histamine injections can trigger CH attacks. Some CH patients benefit from histamine desensitization. Levels of histamine are increased in blood serum and in the urine excretion of people suffering from cluster headache. If a healthy person eats food with too much histamine, this histamine will just leave the body at the other end. Some people seem to have problems with too much histamine in food, and some combinations of food and some medications may increase histamine levels in the body in some people. For details please read the literature review written by Laura Maintz and Natalija Novak: http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/85/5/1185

I think the information in this article gave me a better understanding of my headache diary, food eaten and attacks suffered, and I think my condition improved by using the information about the histamine content of food, histamine liberators etc. and avoiding such food. Sometimes hunger may be a trigger for me but avoiding histamine has nothing to do with hunger. I do eat as much as I like, I just don’t eat the stuff which I think is not good for me. Of course this is just my personal experience, the improvement may be coincidental, and a low-histamine diet will surely not work for all CH patients but hopefully it may work for some. The target of such a diet is not just trigger avoidance; it is to lower the level of histamine in the body. My gut feeling is that when histamine adds up I'm having bad times and when I reduce my histamine intake things get better.

As far as I know there is no scientific study about a relation between food and cluster headache. Please correct me, if I’m wrong. IMHO a CH patient who suspects food triggers could try a low purine diet or a low histamine diet and see what happens.

pf wishes,
Friedrich

Title: Re: Food Triggers???
Post by MinxKittten on Apr 18^th, 2008, 11:06am

Thank you for the info, very interesting....

as for the purines,

"Examples of high purine sources include: sweetbreads, anchovies, sardines, liver, beef kidneys, brains, meat extracts, herring, mackerel, scallops, game meats, and gravy." HE DOESN'T EAT ANY OF THESE. ALTHOUGH ON THANKSGIVING HE HAD GRAVY AND HAD A WHOPPER OF A HEADACHE!

"A moderate amount of purine is also contained in beef, pork, poultry, fish and seafood, asparagus, cauliflower, spinach, mushrooms, green peas, lentils, dried peas, beans, oatmeal, wheat bran and wheat germ."
HE DOES EAT SOME MEAT, TUNA AND POULTRY, BUT THAT SEEMS TO GO DOWN WELL. I JUST ORDERED SOME TALL GRASS FED PURE ORGANIC BEEF, THAT HAS NO PRESERVATIVES OR NITRATES TO SEE IF THAT MAKES A DIFFERENCE. (it hasn't come yet) THE ONLY THING ELSE ON THIS LIST THAT HE'S EATING IS LENTIL SOUP, CUZ THATS THE ONLY CANNED SOUP ON THE SHELF WITH NO MSG.

Title: Re: Food Triggers???
Post by MinxKittten on Apr 18^th, 2008, 11:17am

the Histamine thing makes sense too.

he already avoids most everything on that list, (aged cheeses, wines, etc) with the exception of citrus,

sometimes an orange in evening seems to go down well, but sometimes not. guess we need to eliminate that too.

thanks for all that info....

Title: Re: Food Triggers???
Post by AussieBrian on Apr 19^th, 2008, 11:05am

on 04/18/08 at 11:17:45, MinxKittten wrote:

..sometimes an orange in evening seems to go down well, but sometimes not. guess we need to eliminate that too

How long until he starves?

Many CHeads will tell you that regular meals, regardless how much we don't feel like eating and how little we actually eat, are of paramount importance.

Miss a feed and and the headaches are on for young and old, but the day when one orange (morning or evening) matters so much suggests to me that you are focussing far too much in one direction only.

We're just a rat-bag mob of CHeads and we support our supporters completely (be lost without you) but feed him up, will you? Please!!

However will he fight this monster if all he's allowed is a glass of water, perhaps?

Title: Re: Food Triggers???
Post by RichardN on Apr 19^th, 2008, 12:14pm

Hi jacq

I assume 02 still not working for him? Was really hoping for a pm advising he had finally been able to abort at early stage.

I know he's had these things for 28 years . . . and this time around has been the worst. How long do his cycles normally last?

Since he's on Topomax this time (and I have no experience with it) . . . is there a "usual" amount of time for the Topomax to work? And no, he didn't do a Pred taper.

Really hope you both can get a break soon.

Be Safe, PFDANs

Richard

Title: Re: Food Triggers???
Post by MinxKittten on Apr 19^th, 2008, 10:38pm

on 04/19/08 at 11:05:34, AussieBrian wrote:

i know what you're saying, its hard for me to understand the food thing. if it was me, i think i'd eat and deal with the pain, but i've never had that kind of pain, so maybe i can't say.

he says he'd rather starve than have the pain that comes when he eats.

poor guy only eats one meal a day. he's down almost 30 lbs and he was never fat to begin with.

i got him some new protein drinks, that have no sugar, ISOPURE that have 40 grams of protein. i used to drink these after my intestinal surgery where i couldn't eat at all. they keep your strength up. those seem to be going down OK, so we're gonna get some more of those. at least his muscles won't atrophe if we can keep some protein in him.

and i'm looking forward to the organic grass fed beef that has no nitrate additives.

Title: Re: Food Triggers???
Post by MinxKittten on Apr 19^th, 2008, 10:48pm

on 04/19/08 at 12:14:30, RichardN wrote:

Hi richard,

no, he's still not that into the O2. he finally admitted that its a mental block because he dad was on O2 when he was ill for his later years. the association makes him feel like an ill old man. but i'm still trying to push it on him. Linda sent me a bubbler, so we'll try to add that.

yesterday he only had 3 HA's which is better. and today only 2 so far, a 6 and a 3.

we've been together for just over 4 years, so as to the length of the cycles, usually 4-6 months, since i've known him, but this one, almost 9 months now.

his HA are usually on the right side, when he has a Left side they are 10 times worse. he was 7 months into the right side and they were winding down then he wacked his head on the job and by the next day he had a left side cycle. now he's into the left side.

but the last few days have been better, so hopefully, we're winding down.

thanks so much for calling. he did say he appreciated it and understood why i asked you to call.

THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!

i think it was more he was just starting lunch when you called and he's always so STARVING he didn't really hunker down to talk, cuz he wanted to EAT! lol!

Title: Re: Food Triggers???
Post by MJ on Apr 20^th, 2008, 1:39am

Hi Mkitten.

Please dont take this the wrong way but sometimes maybe a supporter can be overly supportive.

In 4 years you may not be able to fix something your mate has been dealing with for many years more.

Research and understanding is a wonderfull thing and should continue.

I would think your mate should by now after many years know what helps and what doesnt.

Possibly the most important thing like others said is to not alter your lifestyle as much as possible. This would include diets, eating habits, wake cycles, social outings if possible. Granted we all want a cure, as of yet none exists.

For many, seemingly simple changes in medications can prolong or intensify a cycle. The same can happen by adding or substituting a new diet for what our bodies have become accustomed to. Thus sometimes what appear as triggers are just a change in metabolisms causing the body to react in different ways. Normality is the key.

Do not force him on anything except attitudes. Clusterheads Live life between the hits. You must live life for you and around the hits.

Not trying to upset the love and care your showing. Hang in there I know your trying.

I too have had this affliction in a major way for well over 30 years like many posting here.

Fix up some pancakes, eggs and fresh bacon and enjoy. Better yet go out and get some, now would be a good time for the both of you.
If a hit comes it will also go.

Questions; How often is he hit in a day? Are the hits sporadic or at similar times.

Title: Re: Food Triggers???
Post by MinxKittten on Apr 20^th, 2008, 10:52am

thanks MJ, no offense taken.

trust me, he's strong willed and doesn't let me push him into anything.

i just give him what information i find and he does what he wants with it.

up till now, i stay out of it completely, but because this cycle has been longer and more intense and he seems defeated, i got more involved.

our only point of disagreement is the oxygen, he's not that into it, and i wish he would give it more of a chance. we just got it new a couple of weeks ago.

as for the timing of the HA, first one of the day ALWAYS is within 1-1.5 hours after eating his lunch.

in the AM he has toast and coffee, goes to work, then comes home, has lunch, then BAM. then he has 1-2 in the evening before bed. he doesn't eat dinner or he would have them all nite.

usually he has 1-2 during the nite, but not as bad as the afternoon or evening ones.

every now and then, we do go out for a nice big breakfast, but it just starts the whole cycle earlier as he'll get hit not long after breakfast.

what he chooses to eat or not eat is NOT my decision, its HIS. he knows what the obvious triggers are. he was just hoping to identify the more subtle ones so that somehow he could eat more than one meal a day.

Title: Re: Food Triggers???
Post by RichardN on Apr 20^th, 2008, 12:26pm

Hi jacq

OXYGEN STIGMA

Keeps many from trying 02. I should have recognized that may have been a problem.

There have been many posts over the years where folks stated that if this/that med doesn't work . . . surgery considered . . . "if all else fails, will have to try the oxygen" . . . because of the stigma associated with 02.

We have owned some woods acreage for 20 yrs (hope to begin moving there this year) . . . and have a good friend/neighbor there (VietNam vet . . ex Marine, and amazing race car/engine builder) who had a surprising (to me) reaction when I had an attack while visiting him a couple years ago. I got my tank out of the van and started huffing/rocking/pacing around his shop . . . of course telling him that I was aborting an attack.

The look on his face spoke volumes . . . . even after I aborted the hit. He could have been looking at my corpse in the coffin. It wasn't until my next visit a couple weeks later that he explained that everyone he had ever known that "went on oxygen" . . . wasn't around for very long.

We don't use 02 because of respiratory problems or low blood-oxygen levels . . . we use it because hi-flo 02 IS a vasoconstrictor and aborts attacks. I, by the way, have had my blood/oxygen level checked and it was a little higher than the mid-twenties nurse (I'm 61) who checked it.

Not only do I not hide my tank, on many occasions I've used it in very public places (getting that "poor thing" look, and offers of rides to the ER, etc), then . . . after aborting the hit, explaining CH and the reason why we use 02. This has helped me identify friends relatives or friends of friends who, "has headaches like that", or "had CH for years" . . . and allowing me to pass along the info re 02. Education is the key . . . anywhere . . . anytime!

Nuff said

Be Safe, PFDANs

Richard

Title: Re: Food Triggers???
Post by vietvet2tours on Apr 20^th, 2008, 3:17pm

agreeing with RichardN. Enough said.

Potter

Title: Re: Food Triggers???
Post by jon019 on Apr 20^th, 2008, 7:53pm

Richard,

WOW, what an amazing post. I've had to read it several times cuz I kept slapping my head (Helen will appreciate that) and saying OH YEAH!...

stigma? criminy, I've always wondered where docs get their (fear, reluctance, hard headedness) re O2. Now I think I get it, at least a little bit.

Have gotten the look you describe several times. Also allowed me to educate, on occasion, a little bit about ch. Still, that's a real tough time to think about anything but yourself. Good on ya. I just want to crawl in a hole.

One of my biggest regrets is the ONE time I was pulled aside by a pharmacist who was obviously thirsty for knowledge re ch. Was so shocked at the interest, and so hurting, that I only gave her the short version (anyone here could talk for hours). Damn, that's not gonna happen again.

Great advice, great insight. THANK YOU!

Regards,

Jon

Title: Re: Food Triggers???
Post by Becky on Apr 25^th, 2008, 6:32am

I was given the usual anti-migrain list from my Gp, which included coffee!! Then I found out from this site that caffine will abort a ch and it works for me.
I havnt found a food yet that will start an attack, like many here I have found that if I skip a meal this will bring on an attack.

Title: Re: Food Triggers???
Post by Rira82 on Apr 25^th, 2008, 11:25am

I've been suffering from CH for about 15 years and caffeine is the only thing that can control my headaches. I've tried anti-inflammatory meds, anti-seizuremeds and nothing has been able to eliminate the episodes.

I discovered that caffeine worked for me during college when all I had around to drink was Pepsi. Now after 6 years instead of drinking Pepsi at the first signs of a CH, I take 3 excedrine migraine pills, which are loaded with caffeine, and it stops the CH in it's tracks.

Also, I've kept track of when i get a CH and what foods I've eaten before hand. I cannot link my CHs to an exact food, but I have been able to link them to alcohol, specifically wine. I find if i cut out red and white wine, i get fewer episodes a week. I wonder if any of you have discovered the same kind of link?

Title: Re: Food Triggers???
Post by DragonSlayer on Apr 25^th, 2008, 11:56am

Excedrin ES Migraine has 65mg caffeine. If you take two tabs that would be about the same caffeine as a strong cup of coffee or two.

Excedrin ES Migraine also has 250mg each of Acetaminophen and Aspirin which have little effect on CH although some report relief from a shadow.
Again I drink strong coffee or an energy drink with good results rather than excedrin.
over use of Acetaminophen and Aspirin may cause tinnitus (annoying ringing in your ears), stomach problems, rebound HAs along with other unpleasant side effects.

Title: Re: Food Triggers???
Post by syrs842 on Apr 25^th, 2008, 10:34pm

Hi there,

My most favorite thing in the world is a huge trigger for me, and it is chocolate. Of course I am bumming. I do indulge once in a while and I do have tp expect he worst after. But once in a while it is worth it. ;;D

Pat

Title: Re: Food Triggers???
Post by mezza on Apr 26^th, 2008, 7:52am

rira

I have not really been able to link food to much- because of other posts- i have avoided any alcohol - but i don't drink much or often anyway- I have found though that if I drink a very cold fruit juice in the morning to wash down the am meds ( like a capri sun- kids kind of drinks) my head hurts a little

Otherwise i've eaten spicy, salads, all kind of dressings , chocolate, indian , mexican , pizza etc etc and haven't noticed a difference-

But I am on Verapamil 660 mg and only use a triptan now about 1x a week for a longer lasting shadow- So that may have something to do with it

Title: Re: Food Triggers???
Post by jjslugdog on Apr 28^th, 2008, 5:47pm

So far this episode, every time I eat anything I can expect to see the beast {which has absolutely nothing to do with "seeing the elephant"}. Even if I just nible on some seseme sticks and cashews or something. I'm thinking about going on a fast. I did go and pick up an "H" bottle of O2 today. $65. Heck, I spend that on beer and whisky in a week when I'm pf. I did give 'em my insurance to see if it would cover though.

Title: Re: Food Triggers???
Post by MinxKittten on Apr 28^th, 2008, 8:02pm

on 04/28/08 at 17:47:34, jjslugdog wrote:

jj look at my other post of finally a little better today....
maybe try a TAURINE suplement when you eat to help you digest. the last few days rick has been taking a 1000 mg Taurine with every meal and no meal related HA. when he starts shadowing, he takes a taurine and a cup of coffee and also keeps the beast at bay.

cashews are a no no. try to eat healthy natural foods with no msg, no preservatives, no processed lunch meats, no aged cheese.

think like, turkey burger, salads, eggs, chicken, tuna sandwich, avoid sugars too.

good luck, hope you feel better soon.

Title: Re: Food Triggers???
Post by Qazpur on May 25^th, 2008, 8:07am

yesterday I had the experience of a severe hit towards the end of a meal (thought i'd put the fork in my eye instead of my mouth :-/). food trigger crossed my mind briefly, but the headache appeared literally minutes after ingesting (triptan tabs should surely work a lot better in that case).

i wonder whether a lot of the CHs we perceive as being triggered by food are not in fact rather triggered by the mere act of eating (connection with digestion / vagus nerve activation). this could also lend credibility to some of the ideas on fasting and detoxing as preventatives.

Title: Re: Food Triggers???
Post by Cynthia on May 25^th, 2008, 4:26pm

I think each individual will be different as for triggers. For some people chocolate, wine, MSG, nuts, and cheese are going to be a trigger while for others there may not be any trigger foods or maybe only one trigger food. Hell, most lists include caffeine when caffeine helps 50% of people! And yes, caffeine can trigger headache in some people, but I know many people (myself included) that caffeine can be one of the best meds for any kind of headache. And alcohol is going to be a trigger for a lot of people because it is a vasodilator. But some may be able to drink it without a problem.

For me alcohol is the only trigger. I can normally drink it, but now since I've just started having the clusters again, it brings them on. Once I am over them, I will probably be able to drink again. But otherwise, chocolate, cheese, stuff with MSG, nuts, and any other food are fine.

As for having the pain right after a meal. When this happens do you typically eat at or around the same time every day? If so it might have nothing to do with food or eating. As you all know CH often happens around the same time each day. If you eat at 6:00 and you get a headache at 7:00, its probably not the food, you could probably skip that meal and still have a headache at 7.

I mean, see the hot seeker/cold seeker topic. Everyone varies for what helps and what doesn't. The best thing to do is maybe keep a "food diary" and see if anything correlates to the headaches.

Sorry if I sound bitchy or am stating the obvious. I just hate to see it when people automatically state "don't eat that food it will cause a problem!" when it may only cause a problem in a few people. Then others with less knowledge come along and read it and go "Oh, that can cause a problem? I better not eat it!" (And trust me, there are people that will believe anything they read or hear, just because its a popularly held belief. For example "don't swim after you eat", so many people read that and believe it even though its not true)

Title: Re: Food Triggers???
Post by Brew on May 25^th, 2008, 4:54pm

on 05/25/08 at 16:26:41, Cynthia wrote:

For example "don't swim after you eat", so many people read that and believe it even though its not true)

What?

You are shattering my world.

Title: Re: Food Triggers???
Post by Qazpur on May 25^th, 2008, 8:18pm

on 05/25/08 at 16:26:41, Cynthia wrote:

As for having the pain right after a meal. When this happens do you typically eat at or around the same time every day? If so it might have nothing to do with food or eating. As you all know CH often happens around the same time each day. If you eat at 6:00 and you get a headache at 7:00, its probably not the food, you could probably skip that meal and still have a headache at 7.

i think you may have misread my post. what i'm suggesting is that digestion itself may at times trigger CH rather than any particular foodstuff. in 20 odd years the only 2 surefire triggers i've been able to pinpoint for myself when in cycle are alcohol and strenuous exercise. a number of times i've experienced shadowing after eating, and being hit right after a meal (outside my regular appointments with the beast) subsequently leads me to consider possibilities other than direct food triggers.

Title: Re: Food Triggers???
Post by Linda_Howell on May 25^th, 2008, 10:52pm

Alcohol is probably the only universal trigger that is recognized.

SO.....how many of you who seem to think that eating a cashew, or chocolate or asparagus or pineapple, have ever considered the fact that maybe just maybe, none of these are triggers and you got "hit" just because it was time for your dodgey Hypothalmus to say it was.

I've been chronic for 21 loooong years. What I ate never made one whit of differance. If I didn't eat anything for days...I still got hit. If I ate pasta., brocolli, chocolate or califlower..I still got hit...

::)

Title: Re: Food Triggers???
Post by CostaRicaKris on May 25^th, 2008, 11:03pm

I'm with Linda.
Food has never been a trigger for me. My understanding is that food is a trigger for migraines not CH.

~Kris

Title: Re: Food Triggers???
Post by Barry_T_Coles on May 25^th, 2008, 11:04pm

I'm chronic & while in low cycle I can drink drink Stout, white wine & scotch but if I have 1 Beer I will shadow heavily within 20 minutes; all of these are alcohol but why is it that only the beer rattles the beast's cage.
Go figure cos I cant.

Cheers
Barry

Title: Re: Food Triggers???
Post by Linda_Howell on May 25^th, 2008, 11:15pm

Quote:

food is a trigger for migraines not CH.

and that is what I believe also.

Barry, correct me if I am wrong but isn't Stout...BEER?

Linda who hates any type of beer..

Title: Re: Food Triggers???
Post by Barry_T_Coles on May 26^th, 2008, 12:04am

on 05/25/08 at 23:15:18, Linda_Howell wrote:

and that is what I believe also.

Barry, correct me if I am wrong but isn't Stout...BEER?

Linda who hates any type of beer..

Linda you are right; Stout is a beer with the only general difference being the colour & body & thats why I'm baffled as to why I can drink that & not have it effect me but try a beer, Ale or Lager & I shadow.
The brewing methods are generally the same with slight differences in the malts and or yeasts.
That being said they are all still alcohol so I have to assume that it's not the alcohol that effects me.

Still confused
Barry

Title: Re: Food Triggers???
Post by Cynthia on May 26^th, 2008, 1:56am

on 05/25/08 at 22:52:00, Linda_Howell wrote:

Yeah, thats basically what I was trying to say. You just summed it up...and probably said it more nicely than I did. :)

Title: Re: Food Triggers???
Post by seasonalboomer on May 26^th, 2008, 6:34am

You couldn't have convinced me otherwise that it wasn't different foods triggering, when I thought different foods were triggering. But that was also when I wasn't making use of the abortives that are available to us. So, as Stevie Wonder said:

"When you believe in things that you dont understand,
Then you suffer,
Superstition aint the way"

Every hit was hell and to be endured completely, so yes, I used to get freaked out about everything that preceeded a hit. Life is better now that I've got O2, Red Bull and Imitrex as I can live my life fully knowing that if I get hit, it happens and I take care of it.

Scott