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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Cluster Headache Specific >> tinnitus?
        
(Message started by: Stoic on Jan 17^th, 2008, 7:57am)

Title: tinnitus?
Post by Stoic on Jan 17^th, 2008, 7:57am

I'm still having attacks about once a day, although I've felt better as my body becomes accustomed to the Verapamil. Imitrext is a godsend (although I wish my insurance would pay for more than nine tablets every 23 days).

But I have constant tinnitus, sometimes louder, sometimes less so. When I was hit at 4:30 this morning, I noticed that the ringing was considerably louder than usual. Yesterday, by contrast, I went the whole day feeling pretty well, and the tinnitus was less obtrusive.

Is this an integral part of the cluster headache syndrome? Or is it perhaps a side effect of the medication? Or perhaps something else altogether?

Thanks for all your help.

Bob

Title: Re: tinnitus?
Post by DennisM1045 on Jan 17^th, 2008, 8:36am

I've never heard that tinnitus was a symptom of clusters but I do see that verapamil is a treatment for tinnitus. Seems calcium channel blockers can help for that condition too.

www.angelfire.com/home/hideout/menieres/whatm.html

-Dennis-

Title: Re: tinnitus?
Post by artonio7 on Jan 17^th, 2008, 9:00am

on 01/17/08 at 08:36:34, DennisM1045 wrote:

I developed tinitus after a bout of Menieres Disease several years ago. At the time I lost all hearing in my left ear (cluster side). I was prescribed Antivert and a antihistamine... (I don't recall the name). When the vertigo subsided and half of my hearing restored I was left with the ringing. Some days it's worse then others but it's a constant. Although the Menieres and it's extreme vertigo went away I was left with a less than peachy sense of balance... to describe it I'm always a bit dizzy or as one might feel the day after a really bad drunken binge.

This was several years before I developed CH by the way.

with warm regards,
Tony

Title: Re: tinnitus?
Post by monty on Jan 17^th, 2008, 9:43am

Yeah, I have some tinnitus in one ear. I have linked mine with muscle tension and jaw problems - when I clench my jaw, the ringing gets louder. When my jaw is in a mood to pop or lock up, the tinnitus is worse. When I am in cycle, the pain and nerve misfirings are not helpful, and the muscles in the jaw get disturbed.

There are other causes of tinnitus - blood circulation not related to muscle problems, infections, chemical (aspirin sensitivity), neurological, etc.

Title: Re: tinnitus?
Post by LeeS on Jan 17^th, 2008, 9:53am

This has come up before. I haven't done a recent search, but most of the research seemed to focus on migraine and tinnitus. Not a lot out there in terms of CH, however, I did find this. Interesting that they have devised there own version of the Kip scale for tinnitus.

Quote:

Acta Otorhinolaryngol Ital. 1999 Apr;19(2):70-5.Links
Tinnitus during headache: clinical-instrumental evaluation

Farri A, Enrico A, Lacilla M, Sartoris A.
Dipartimento di Fisiopatologia Clinica, Università di Torino.

During the five years running from December 1993 to January 1998, 112 patients who had come to our University Clinic suffering from headache were examined. From this group 71 complaining of tinnitus during headache were recruited for the study: 19 patients suffered from migraine without aura, 8 migraine with aura, 15 tension headache, 21 mixed headache, 3 basic migraine and 5 cluster headache. The purpose of this work was to determine the incidence and to identify the frequency of the various types of tinnitus in the study sample. Once cardiovascular and metabolic pathologies, previous cranial or cervical traumas, barotrauma, chronic on-the-job noise exposure, cervical arthritis, ATM malocclusion, use of drugs that damage the hearing apparatus, morbose processes of the external and middle ear, otosclerosis, jugular tympanum paraganglioma, Meniere's disease, acoustic neurinoma were all ruled out, the patients underwent the following battery of instrumental tests: tonal audiometry, impedance measurement, vestibular examination, electronystagmography, ABR, simplified tinnitometry. Only those patients with normal hearing underwent the tinnitometry and, therefore, the type of tinnitus was established only for this group of 53 patients. Tinnitometry showed that 37% of these subjects had tinnitus at the higher frequency tones, 11% at the middle frequencies, 29% complained of tinnitus at the lower frequencies while 23% complained that the bothersome buzzing was a compound noise. In addition, the subjective intensity of the tinnitus was analyzed. The authors devised a tinnitus irritation scale covering a range from 0 (not irritating) to 10 (intolerable). The tinnitus was bilateral in 66% of the cases while it was limited to only one ear in the remaining 34%. In 15% of the cases tinnitus was present even when there was no headache. In the literature, the etiopathogenesis of tinnitus associated with migraine headache has been attributed to vascular and neuropeptide mechanisms. Even the psychological component appears to play a role in triggering the event. These hypotheses deserve more in depth study.

And this one attempts to explain the cause:

Quote:

Neuroscience. 2001;103(1):189-201. Links
Capsaicin stimulation of the cochlea and electric stimulation of the trigeminal ganglion mediate vascular permeability in cochlear and vertebro-basilar arteries: a potential cause of inner ear dysfunction in headache.
Vass Z, Steyger PS, Hordichok AJ, Trune DR, Jancsó G, Nuttall AL.
Department of Otolaryngology, Albert Szent-Györgyi Medical University, Szeged H-6725, Hungary.

Trigeminal neurogenic inflammation is one explanation for the development of vascular migraine. The triggers for this inflammation and pain are not well understood, but are probably vasoactive components acting on the blood vessel wall. Migraine-related inner ear symptoms like phonophobia, tinnitus, fluctuation in hearing perception and increased noise sensitivity provide indirect evidence that cochlear blood vessels are also affected by basilar artery migraine. The purpose of this investigation was to determine if a functional connection exists between the cochlea and the basilar artery. Neuronally mediated permeability changes in the cochlea and basilar artery were measured by colloidal silver and Evans Blue extravasation, following orthodromic and antidromic stimulation of the trigeminal ganglion innervating the cochlea. Capsaicin and electrical stimulation induced both dose- and time-dependent plasma extravasation of colloidal silver and Evans Blue from the basilar artery and anterior inferior cerebellar artery. Both orthodromic and antidromic activation of trigeminal sensory fibers also induced cochlear vascular permeability changes and significant quantitative differences between the treated and control groups in spectrophotometric assays. These results characterize a vasoactive connection between the cochlea and vertebro-basilar system through the trigeminal sensory neurons. We propose that vertigo, tinnitus and hearing deficits associated with basilar migraine could arise by excitation of the trigeminal nerve fibers in the cochlea, resulting in local plasma extravasation. In addition, cochlear "dysfunction" may also trigger basilar and cluster headache by afferent input to the trigeminal system.

For some reason, I can never seem to get that song "Walking in a Winter Wonderland" out of my head; irrespective of the season. I wonder if it is cluster related? ;)

All the best with it.

-Lee

Title: Re: tinnitus?
Post by kcopelin on Jan 17^th, 2008, 11:38am

Interesting study. My hearing is totally shot-spent a bit too much time in jet engine noise. I do have some ringing in my ear during a CH and even during shadows (which I define as low level CH's Kip1-6) so I guess its pretty constant.

On the other hand Lee, there is something called an ear worm. Thank you so much ::)now I can't get the tune or the lyrics for "walkin' in a Winter Wonderland" outta my head. :o

PFDAN y'all
kathy

Title: Re: tinnitus?
Post by Gator on Jan 17^th, 2008, 4:47pm

For me, tinnitus came as a side effect of taking carbamazepine, aka tegretol. Three years later and I still have it.

Title: Re: tinnitus?
Post by LarryM on Jan 18^th, 2008, 1:16am

I have, it's annoying, but doesn't rate that high on my list of stress creators. Credit card debt will factor more into quality of life issues.

Title: Re: tinnitus?
Post by karma on Jan 18^th, 2008, 9:38am

I've had it long before CH showed up.
Spending more than half your life driving piles and around heavy equipment and quarries will do that to you.
Tried ear plugs once but then I was deaf and dumb.

Title: Re: tinnitus?
Post by Crappy on Jan 18^th, 2008, 2:30pm

I've had rare tinnitus in one ear (pain side) since teenage years, maybe every few weeks, loud but lasting only a minute. That came many years before Ch. Just after the Ch really got bad, but also after I started topomax, I also began having tinnitus in my other ear during attacks on the non-pain side. It's no bother to me, but it does usually happen in either ear now during attacks.

Title: Re: tinnitus?
Post by Stoic on Jan 18^th, 2008, 2:39pm

This is all quite interesting. My tinnitus is a bit less noisy today, which is also the first full day I've had in some time without a headache. And when I do wake with a headache, the tinnitus is very loud.

I'm not bothered that much by the tinnitus, which I could live with much more easily than with all these headaches. But in my case, the two seem to come and go together.

Title: Re: tinnitus?
Post by Gator on Jan 19^th, 2008, 11:27pm

The ringing in my ears is constant. Sometimes it is louder than others. Sometimes I hardly notice it and sometimes it's downright maddening. F@#$%ng Tegretol. That is one of two meds that I will NEVER take again. The other being Dopeymax.

Title: Re: tinnitus?
Post by sandie99 on Jan 24^th, 2008, 8:37am

I've had tinnitus occasionally long before I got my first ch hits.

Sanna

Title: Re: tinnitus?
Post by Paul98 on Jan 24^th, 2008, 10:20am

I now seem to have tinnitus almost constantly. Some days it is bothersome, once in a while I don't notice it. I had CH long before I got the ringing. Never noticed a coorelation with having CH, being in or out of cycle or anything else. I do know if I even take small amts of asprine or ieubroprofin the ringing gets worse. I have noticed the ringing for ~4-5 years now.

-P.

Title: Re: tinnitus?
Post by hotprestwich on Jan 24^th, 2008, 11:38am

I got clusters, but no tinnitus here
must be lots of others who dont have it either,
i personally cant make a connection with the two

Title: Re: tinnitus?
Post by Grandma_Sweet_Boy on Jan 24^th, 2008, 7:06pm

on 01/24/08 at 10:20:15, Paul98 wrote:

I've had the same condition for years now and only recently clued in to it getting worse with aspirin. Mine started about 34 years ago and followed a nasty inner ear infection that made me walk into walls. (yes, I was sober! ;;D)

It's damned annoying but on a scale of 1 to "sh*t happens" - it sits somewhere in the lower end of the scale.

Carol

Title: Re: tinnitus?
Post by JEG_43MD on Jan 24^th, 2008, 8:12pm

on 01/18/08 at 14:39:47, Stoic wrote:

The tinnitus your hearing is spurious brain activity. Neurons just firing like crazy... and for no reason. You can actually hear your brain activity when its really out of sync (such as in a cluster). No different than being able to hear Doritos in your head when you chew them.

I could leave the explanation at that and get flamed by all my "friends" but I will finish this explanation...

Oh yeah, forgot to say that the reason the nerves are firing is due to an errant immune response that releases a neurotoxin from the pituitary. Think of it this way....If you had the nerve ending in your hand and had an eye dropper of this neurotoxin... one drop on the nerve and it starts to go crazy....

O.K. How do I know this...I'll skip the chemistry piece for now because being able to hear your own brain activity is way more interesting....I had "tinitus" for years with my headaches and a little bit of it without my headaches. Then things got out of control thanks to Prednisone. It made my disease so bad that my Occipital lobe of my brain would be so hyper-stimulated that the tinitus was loud enough I couldn't hear anything else. I say occipital lobe because when I would move my eyes to the left or right...the tinitus would spike. It was like a swooshing sound. And 1 puff off a cigarette made the whole thing that much worse.

So I don't tell my doctor about this because he will think I am crazy "Hey doc. I can hear my brain" So I met up with the 2nd Neuromuscular authority in the world at Ohio state. I told her what I just told you and said I could manipulate my medications to aggravate my occipital lobe at will and create the tinitus feeling. We bet $1. I took 2 days to drop one of my medications and then I got an fMRI scan of my brain. What do you ya know...there was hyperactivity around the pituitary and the occipital lobe was off the chart. That pretty much it. I know what the tinitus is. I can make it worse and I can make it better. But I can't make it go away.

Sorry for the long post but that's how it is-

J

Title: Re: tinnitus?
Post by Jonny on Jan 24^th, 2008, 8:30pm

on 01/24/08 at 20:12:11, JEG_43MD wrote:

So I don't tell my doctor about this because he will think I am crazy

Any good Psychiatrists would, have you seen yours lately?

Title: Re: tinnitus?
Post by cat1955 on Jan 24^th, 2008, 8:33pm

A neurotoxin from the pituitary? Are you a snake?

Maybe your "tinnitis" is from taking too many meds. Namely acetaminophen...tylenol, excedrin migraine, etc.

Your name implies that you are an MD....are you really??? because I am having a difficulty with that.

Carol

Title: Re: tinnitus?
Post by Kevin_M on Jan 24^th, 2008, 8:37pm

Please post all links relating tinnitus to neurotoxin from the pituitary, and/or the occipital lobe's role in it.

Title: Re: tinnitus?
Post by Ace_Sterling on Jan 24^th, 2008, 10:20pm

I have the ringing too. Who the fuck is this guy?

Oh BTW are we allowed to swear onthis board?

Title: Re: tinnitus?
Post by chewy on Jan 24^th, 2008, 10:26pm

Nice try Ace.

clap on............clap off

Title: Re: tinnitus?
Post by Annette on Jan 24^th, 2008, 11:01pm

on 01/24/08 at 20:12:11, JEG_43MD wrote:

The tinnitus your hearing is spurious brain activity. Neurons just firing like crazy... and for no reason. You can actually hear your brain activity when its really out of sync (such as in a cluster). No different than being able to hear Doritos in your head when you chew them.

I could leave the explanation at that and get flamed by all my "friends" but I will finish this explanation...

Oh yeah, forgot to say that the reason the nerves are firing is due to an errant immune response that releases a neurotoxin from the pituitary. Think of it this way....If you had the nerve ending in your hand and had an eye dropper of this neurotoxin... one drop on the nerve and it starts to go crazy....

O.K. How do I know this...I'll skip the chemistry piece for now because being able to hear your own brain activity is way more interesting....I had "tinitus" for years with my headaches and a little bit of it without my headaches. Then things got out of control thanks to Prednisone. It made my disease so bad that my Occipital lobe of my brain would be so hyper-stimulated that the tinitus was loud enough I couldn't hear anything else. I say occipital lobe because when I would move my eyes to the left or right...the tinitus would spike. It was like a swooshing sound. And 1 puff off a cigarette made the whole thing that much worse.

So I don't tell my doctor about this because he will think I am crazy "Hey doc. I can hear my brain" So I met up with the 2nd Neuromuscular authority in the world at Ohio state. I told her what I just told you and said I could manipulate my medications to aggravate my occipital lobe at will and create the tinitus feeling. We bet $1. I took 2 days to drop one of my medications and then I got an fMRI scan of my brain. What do you ya know...there was hyperactivity around the pituitary and the occipital lobe was off the chart. That pretty much it. I know what the tinitus is. I can make it worse and I can make it better. But I can't make it go away.

Sorry for the long post but that's how it is-

J

Oh my goodness ! I have really refrained myself from posting but this is too much.

JEG, I believe you have schizophrenia, please go see a psychiatrist as soon as possible before you hurt yourself or someone else.

Title: Re: tinnitus?
Post by brewcrew on Jan 24^th, 2008, 11:03pm

Annette, he doesn't have schizophrenia. He has cranial-rectal inversion syndrome.

Title: Re: tinnitus?
Post by Gator on Jan 24^th, 2008, 11:08pm

In other words:

http://media.funlol.com/content/img/0363.jpg

Title: Re: tinnitus?
Post by Jimi on Jan 24^th, 2008, 11:15pm

Quote:

JEG, I believe you have schizophrenia

Annette, in all seriousness, I think that you are correct.

Title: Re: tinnitus?
Post by Linda_Howell on Jan 24^th, 2008, 11:17pm

Good grief........Is it a full moon? :-/

Title: Re: tinnitus?
Post by Gator on Jan 24^th, 2008, 11:28pm

on 01/24/08 at 23:15:38, Jimi wrote:

Annette, in all seriousness, I think that you are correct.

That's what the MD stands for, Jimi - Mentally Damaged

Title: Re: tinnitus?
Post by Groov on Jan 25^th, 2008, 12:30am

Lately I have tried adjusting the cam timing lobe centers to 105 degrees, but still running less horsepower than before I bought the adjustable cam sprocket.

Stoic, do you have any suggestions as it relates to cam timing on an air-cooled inline four Kawasaki?
Your buddy, Abraham Lincoln

Title: Re: tinnitus?
Post by Kirk on Jan 25^th, 2008, 11:39pm

Damn JEG you need to get yer egg candled kid. [smiley=smokin.gif]

Title: Re: tinnitus?
Post by DragonSlayer on Jan 30^th, 2008, 5:04pm

on 01/17/08 at 08:36:34, DennisM1045 wrote:

Above site is talking about Meniere's Disease but the information relates to tinnitus.

Quote
Drug Considerations
Avoid aspirin (for example, Bayer and Bufferin) and medications that contain aspirin. Aspirin can cause tinnitus (abnormal noise in the ear). Nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory agents such as ibuprofen (for example, Advil and Motrin) or naproxen (for example, Anaprox and Naprelan) should also be avoided when practical.

Avoid caffeine-containing medications. Caffeine can increase tinnitus as well as stimulate the problems mentioned above under foods.

Pay attention to the content of all over-the-counter medications as well as drugs prescribed by other physicians. Some medications may increase your symptoms.

Avoid cigarettes. The nicotine present in cigarettes constricts blood vessels and can decrease the blood supply to the inner ear, making your symptoms worse.
End Quote

I believe many CHers can identify with some of the information noted above.

Title: Re: tinnitus?
Post by andrewjb on Jan 30^th, 2008, 9:29pm

i suffer tinnitus, mostly on the left 'CH' side, though it plays tunes with the right on occasions. its deafening when in a 'CH' cycle. andrew.