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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Cluster Headache Specific >> Shadow Definition?
        
(Message started by: billyjoe on Nov 16^th, 2007, 10:47am)

Title: Shadow Definition?
Post by billyjoe on Nov 16^th, 2007, 10:47am

Last time I was at my neuro, I told him I was have a lot of shadows. He asked what a shadow was. Not sure I answered it very well. Anyone care to share their definition of a shadow? I am interested to be able to differentiate between a shadow and some other type of headache.

Are they on one side like a CH or can they go across the brow or behind the eye? Can they throb or tingle? How long do they last and how often do they occur?

Thanks!

Title: Re: Shadow Definition?
Post by Guiseppi on Nov 16^th, 2007, 12:46pm

You will get several different answers on this I'm sure! My shadows are when I get the droopy eyelid, runny nose, and I can feel the "stingy" part of the headche starting, but it never really takes hold. It is not at all like a tension headache or a hang over headache, it feels just like a CH, but the real pain never starts.

Guiseppi

Title: Re: Shadow Definition?
Post by ski2k on Nov 16^th, 2007, 12:58pm

Hey, Billyjoe..

It's my understanding that a shadow is the "sign" you get that a full blown CH is coming. That "tug" or pressure behind your eye. I've also heard it described as a mini-CH... Eye droop, some pressure, stuffy nose... But not progressing to the point of extreme pain. Kinda like you and your shadow. It looks like you, it acts like you, but it's not quite you!
I usually describe a shadow to those in my life as the "warning signs" that a CH is coming. The tug, the pressure, etc.. I also like to tell them how it doesn't ALWAYS turn into a full blown CH. Sometimes it just remains a shadow of the "real thing".
They can vary in length, but generally, from what I've read, can last as long as a "normal" cluster headache... From 20 min- 3 hours.
For me, the worst part about shadows, is not knowing if it's going to turn into a full blown headache or not. Do I treat it right away and risk wasting my precious O2? Or do I wait, and see, knowing that if I wait too long the O2 won't work?

Hope this helps some! I'm pretty interested in hearing how others describe shadows, too. See if we're all on the same page, here.

Adam

Title: Re: Shadow Definition?
Post by Yorky on Nov 16^th, 2007, 3:27pm

a shadow ?

well it's kinda like a warm cloud ,

that fills one side of my head ,more than the other,

(like an intense pins and needle's) ,

but as a very dull , intense hot type of

pain..........it's usually a sign

of a big ch coming.......

(it can usually be accompanied with an aching jaw and a stiff kneck)

i shadow all the time , during cycle

but i suppose there should be a kip, type scale for

shadowing.......as some shadows are a lot more intense

than others.

shadowing can also be the sign that you are about to

start a cycle ,

i hope this is accurate

(but it is a wide range , the word shadow)

i have wrote this ...it as taken me 1 hour..because it is a

hard thing to describe, even though i am heavily

shadowing while i write this ,

i also shadowed this same time last nite but no ch.

hope im not going to start.

ps. shadow not as intense now , but eyebrow hurting

and someone as hammered a six inch nail in my kneck.

but this happens a lot . doe not mean i will cycle.

i get a shadow at least 2/3 time's every month....

but only break in to cycle 1 sometimes 2 a year.

:)

pftuall

Title: Re: Shadow Definition?
Post by George_J on Nov 16^th, 2007, 4:20pm

Anything under a kip 5.

Still unmistakably CH, but I can function.

Best,

George

Title: Re: Shadow Definition?
Post by billyjoe on Nov 16^th, 2007, 5:05pm

Thanks for all the great responses so far! I'd like to add an additional question...

Since some, or maybe many of us, change the amount of our preventative we take to achieve the least amount of side affects, do you get more shadows when you go too low on your preventative?

Title: Re: Shadow Definition?
Post by ski2k on Nov 16^th, 2007, 5:46pm

Sorry... I can't help you with this last questioin. I've never found a "pharmaceutical" preventative that's worked for me.

Beat wishes,
Adam

Title: Re: Shadow Definition?
Post by Yorky on Nov 16^th, 2007, 6:38pm

on 11/16/07 at 17:05:56, billyjoe wrote:

what is your preventive ? and dosage ?

lets say 720mg verripamel , works a treat :)

but you go down to 360/480.......and you start

shadowing heavy.....if it aint broke ....dont fix it ;)

stick at what works...all under doctor supervision.

ps still got my shadow :-/ ...it feels like my hair is

standing on end so much , it is hurting my scalp .

but no jaw ache now...or kneck ache . ;;D

Title: Re: Shadow Definition?
Post by GrandPotentate on Nov 16^th, 2007, 6:50pm

I had some shadows, maybe even a shadow cycle during a long PF break. They are weird - every symptom except the pain. Gave me the booboojeebies, worrying about what was coming next.

More commonly, there are a few of these during cycle. I haven't had any prevents, and these make it tough to decide whether to huff some O2 or not.

Title: Re: Shadow Definition?
Post by aloneuk on Nov 16^th, 2007, 6:52pm

on 11/16/07 at 18:38:12, Yorky wrote:

but no jaw ache now...or kneck ache . ;;D

thats cos you gave it to me yorky !

if it aint broke dude dont fix it !

i also cant really help ive no prevent that helps :(

Title: Re: Shadow Definition?
Post by BlueMeanie on Nov 16^th, 2007, 10:24pm

As others have already described, it's a very mild CH. It's actually a KIP 3 and below CH as described on the KIP scale. Sometimes a shadow just follows you around all day and never turns to an attack. When in cycle, it most time does turn to an attack.

Shadow's can sometimes be good because at least you know a CH is on the way instead of when sleeping you don't feel the shadow it's too late. :'(

The biggest problem with a shadow is you have to decide if it's going to turn to a full blown attack before taking your abortive so as not to waste it.

Title: Re: Shadow Definition?
Post by tommyD on Nov 18^th, 2007, 7:52am

I rank shadows on the Kip scale between 1 and 3. In a shadow, all the symptoms are mild: nasal congetions is just a hint, eye doen't really tear up, etc. For me, shadows can fade in and out over the course of a few minutes, or an hour, or hang around all day, and they aren't a reliable warning - all attacks start with shadows, but most shadows do not lead to attacks.

But some here to be describing what has been termed a "phantom" CH, where the non-pain symtoms - runny nose, congestion, droopy eye, are just as severe as in a full-blown CH, but the main pain isn't there. And the duration is more likely to be similar to a full attack.

I had several of these phantom attacks a few cycles ago. No solid data on this, but it's my impression a lot of folks using the clusterbuster method report these phantom attacks.

-tommyD

Title: Re: Shadow Definition?
Post by thebbz on Nov 18^th, 2007, 9:50pm

It's the demon, parked with the engine running. K1 to 3,
letting you know the SOB is still there.
thebb

Title: Re: Shadow Definition?
Post by BarbaraD on Nov 19^th, 2007, 7:01am

For me a shadow is anything under a Kip-5. I usually do the Red Bull (or coffee - depending on where we are on the Kip scale). I usually wake up in the mornings with a shadow and hit the coffee pot. A couple of cups and the shadow disappears for a while.

Most days I live with shadows (I'm chronic). If they start reving up over a Kip-5 I usually take an abortative (cafergot).

Hugs BD

Title: Re: Shadow Definition?
Post by Sandy_C on Nov 19^th, 2007, 3:42pm

I have to agree with the "shadow" range of between 1 and 3 on the kip.

For me, a shadow is a heavy feeling, slight ache above and to the right of my right eyebrow (I'm a rightie). A couple of Excedrin Extra Strength usually takes care of the problem.

It's the between the 3 and the 4 on the scale where I have to really wonder and worry if this shadow is going to go in to a hit. The scale is a wonderful way to gauge what's happening, but since everyone's pain threshold is different, it's going to vary between us.

But, I can tell you that if I feel ANY pain IN the right eye ( you know the good ole poker thing), no matter how slight, I know that shadow is going to become a hit, so I head for the 02. I wait for that prick (nothing intended here ;) ) in the eye, then I go in to action.

Title: Re: Shadow Definition?
Post by chewy on Nov 19^th, 2007, 5:20pm

Constant low grade pain with accompanying CH symptoms.

Title: Re: Shadow Definition?
Post by billyjoe on Nov 19^th, 2007, 5:25pm

For me, I was at Kip 1 for couple of months and then I changed into Kip 2 & 3, when fall started. For the last month, I have had an almost constant Kip 3, during my waking hours.

After a pretty good dose of seeds, (not sure if it's related) I had headaches all over my forehead, including occasional throbbing and tingling. I increased my verapamil 80mg, and after a week, I appear to be down to a Kip 2.

Strange beast this is!