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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Cluster Headache Specific >> Re: Accupunture
        
(Message started by: chewy on Oct 3^rd, 2007, 6:43am)

Title: Re: Accupunture
Post by chewy on Oct 3^rd, 2007, 6:43am

Been there, done that. Useless.

Title: Re: Accupunture
Post by Lotus on Oct 3^rd, 2007, 7:02am

I have a post grad diploma in acupuncture and have been practising acupuncture in my surgery for more than 10 years, I can tell you that it wont work for CH.

Acupuncture works on the peripheral nerve endings and junctions. It has no effect on the central nervous system nor the cranial nerves which are affected in CH.

It has better results for migraines, sinusitis and various muscular pains.

We have had this discussion before here and there has not been a consistent report of any sustainable effect with acupuncture for CH.

Annette

Title: Re: Accupunture
Post by bassman on Oct 3^rd, 2007, 6:34pm

tried it about five years ago, wasted alot of time and money

Title: Re: Accupunture
Post by rforward on Oct 3^rd, 2007, 9:07pm

i had accupuncture done for sinusitis, and though i did drain quite nicely, it triggered a nasty period of attacks... or at least that is what i attribute it to since they began no sooner than i stepped foot out of the office
:-/

Title: Re: Accupunture
Post by Ray on Oct 3^rd, 2007, 9:11pm

Been there, done that, to no positive effect...

Ray

Title: Re: Accupunture
Post by Jobette on Oct 3^rd, 2007, 11:00pm

The first treatment did set off a headache. As soon as she took the needle out my cheek I felt the headache coming, it was almost instant. But today was my second treatment and ther were no problems, as a matter of fact I actually feel better than I have in 2 weeks. I can't say what did it, but I am keeping a diary so that I will know. ;) Jobette

Title: Re: Accupunture
Post by xxsarahxx on Oct 5^th, 2007, 3:07pm

It works wonders for my mums migraine but i'v never tried it and nor do i ever want to, looks awfully painful...

Title: Re: Accupunture
Post by slacker032 on Oct 29^th, 2007, 8:28am

bump for Jobette

How's the accupuncture going? I recently had a couple sessions and I think it made my cycle worse. Had sessions on Wed and Thurs and my weekend was just hell. Could just be a coincidence though.

Title: Re: Accupunture
Post by Steve_Gn on Oct 29^th, 2007, 9:52pm

Acupuncture is obviously a touchy subject.
I can tell you after working for about 5 years with my acupuncturists, she has finally got the right combination.

In Chinese medicine, the pain I described to my acupuncturists meant digestive problems. With her using that and also with the research I gave her on CH, we finally have something that works for me.

I still have all the usual sensations that go with a cluster, but no pain. I go in about every 3 weeks during a cycle and it seems to work.

Title: Re: Accupunture
Post by thebbz on Oct 29^th, 2007, 10:20pm

Acupuncture is not a treatment for CH.....neither is Bengay.
Your better off using a hammer.
thebb

Title: Re: Accupunture
Post by Jobette on Oct 30^th, 2007, 9:04pm

I am learning that we have to say, to each his own, because here we are learning that what helps one does not always help all, and we should respect that. But I am finding that instead of all these drugs that seem to be killing me, why not try something else, something different. Like must of you say, you have to find your own bullet for the beast. Hey, dealing with this thing, I often times find myself desprite, and why not try some things on your own, because the docs are only guessing too. This is just MY OPINION. :-*

Title: Re: Accupunture
Post by Jonny on Oct 30^th, 2007, 9:09pm

on 10/29/07 at 21:52:45, Steve_Gn wrote:

In Chinese medicine, the pain I described to my acupuncturists meant digestive problems. With her using that and also with the research I gave her on CH, we finally have something that works for me.

I still have all the usual sensations that go with a cluster, but no pain.

Your kidding, right?

Title: Re: Accupunture
Post by sldrswyfe on Oct 30^th, 2007, 9:15pm

[smiley=huh.gif]

I had "acupuncture" but done with "sensors"(??)...some electronic things were placed here and there...and made my face and head pulse..it brought on an attack...

The traditional , no I haven't...sounds like it's not the way to go though.

Title: Re: Accupunture
Post by Emily on Oct 31^st, 2007, 11:05am

Quote:

Posted by: Jonny Posted on: Today at 2:09am
on Oct 30th, 2007, 2:52am, Steve_Gn wrote:
In Chinese medicine, the pain I described to my acupuncturists meant digestive problems. With her using that and also with the research I gave her on CH, we finally have something that works for me.

I still have all the usual sensations that go with a cluster, but no pain.

Your kidding, right?

When I was getting nowhere with the UK health system, I decided to visit a natural healer. Strangely enough, she told me exactly the same thing. That I had digestive problems... I'm not saying that I'm taken in by it, but a coincidence nonetheless.

Incidentally, she told me that if I boiled thyme in a saucepan for 20 mins and let it brew and I drank that s**t 3 times a day for a week, I would feel better.

Then I paid to see a neuro. ;;D

Title: Re: Accupunture
Post by Kevin_M on Oct 31^st, 2007, 9:58pm

on 10/03/07 at 23:00:09, Jobette wrote:

I can't say what did it, but I am keeping a diary so that I will know. ;) Jobette

on 10/29/07 at 08:28:40, slacker032 wrote:

bump for Jobette

How's the accupuncture going?

What would you attribute the last four weeks in your diary to after two appointments? An acupunturist who is extremely knowledgeable and well-experienced with CH?

on 10/30/07 at 21:04:10, Jobette wrote:

Hey, dealing with this thing, I often times find myself desprite, and why not try some things on your own, because the docs are only guessing too.

How is this not true for acupuncturists or are they guessing, too? Guessing or... otherwise.

on 10/29/07 at 21:52:45, Steve_Gn wrote:

I can tell you after working for about 5 years with my acupuncturists, she has finally got the right combination.

In Chinese medicine, the pain I described to my acupuncturists meant digestive problems. With her using that and also with the research I gave her on CH, we finally have something that works for me.

Five years here, to decide digestive problems then seeing your research, it worked. What was the research and how did she use it to link the digestive problems to it? Did she explain anything to you about how working at a deemed digestive problem was the start and then with the research on CH you provided was how she got the right combination? What was the breakthrough? Five years is a lot of your faith.

Is there anything more to share with others or is it still an ancient Chinese secret?

Title: Re: Accupunture
Post by BlueMeanie on Oct 31^st, 2007, 11:11pm

on 10/29/07 at 21:52:45, Steve_Gn wrote:

after working for about 5 years with my acupuncturists, she has finally got the right combination.

It only took five years. ::)

Title: Re: Accupunture
Post by Jobette on Oct 31^st, 2007, 11:31pm

So Kevin, what is your contribution to the never ending question of how best to TRY to control these headaches without so many negative side affects? The way that you have just disected or broke down our discussion on something that may or may not work, surely you can answer that great question. I didn't know that there were doctors here, and if there are, they can't be worth much, because we are all still here and suffering. I thought this was a place to try and get help or support, but this kind of help is what breeds negativity. If accupunture has helped 1 person and I can't say if it did or didn't, but if it did help and if it only worked for 1 day, then that's a good thing. Like many here say, what works for 1 doesn't always work for all. But when we stop trying to help OURSELVES, then we really will have a problem plus these messed up headaches. I don't think that any doctor or any MAN has the answer, because there are too many who are saying just that. I had more that 2 accupunture sections but I decided accupunture from 1 doc and meds from another doc was too much at one time to be able to get a true reading of what if anything was working, but that was my chose.
I thought this was a place to come to talk with others about something that we have in common (clusters) and what works in helping to deal with them. These are only suggestions, you don't have to try them, but don't knock them if you haven't tried them. No one is advocating accupunture anymore that they are advocating Imitrex, Zomig or any other cluster med. My Mom always said that if you don't have anything good to say don't say anything, now look what you made me do. :-X And anyway, why can't we all just get along?

Title: Re: Accupunture
Post by BlueMeanie on Oct 31^st, 2007, 11:58pm

on 10/31/07 at 23:31:22, Jobette wrote:

If accupunture has helped 1 person and I can't say if it did or didn't, but if it did help and if it only worked for 1 day, then that's a good thing.

It might be for the ONE person that it MAY have helped. (no proof there). But what about the other thousands of peeps that waste there money thinking it works. Is it helping by advocating something that cost lots of money (which most people can't afford) thinking it will work. Besides, the person asked if anyone tried it and does it work. An overwhelming response to not only this thread but MANY other threads have shown that it doesn't. O.K., maybe a couple peeps along the way say it MIGHT have worked.

Title: Re: Accupunture
Post by Kevin_M on Nov 1^st, 2007, 12:05am

on 10/31/07 at 23:31:22, Jobette wrote:

something that may or may not work,

How long do we have to suffer further, how much money to acupucturists to find out? Is this what you are suggesting?

Quote:

I didn't know that there were doctors here, and if there are, they can't be worth much, because we are all still here and suffering.

How much would an acupuncturist be worth if they were here and we were still suffering?

Quote:

I thought this was a place to try and get help or support, but this kind of help is what breeds negativity.

I believe this was your first innocent question:

on 10/02/07 at 21:41:34, Jobette wrote:

I was wondering if anyone has tryed accupunture and if you had any success with it.

Were you looking for more agreement to the method? Were you willing to take some negative answers toward it?

Quote:

If accupunture has helped 1 person and I can't say if it did or didn't, but if it did help and if it only worked for 1 day, then that's a good thing.

Yes, I've heard before of things helping for one day, but you haven't stated anything positive about it beyond that one day for yourself except don't knock it. Would one day be do to the acupuncture?

Quote:

Like many here say, what works for 1 doesn't always work for all. But when we stop trying to help OURSELVES, then we really will have a problem plus these messed up headaches.

Did you help yourself by it? I know of one day you say no hits, but you don't know if it was the meds or otherwise.

Quote:

I had more that 2 accupunture sections but I decided accupunture from 1 doc and meds from another doc was too much at one time to be able to get a true reading of what if anything was working, but that was my chose.

So you don't know if it works?

Quote:

I thought this was a place to come to talk with others about something that we have in common (clusters) and what works in helping to deal with them.

Yes, its important to discuss, what works.

Quote:

These are only suggestions, you don't have to try them, but don't knock them if you haven't tried them.

Are you suggesting acupuncture if you don't know it works?

Quote:

My Mom always said that if you don't have anything good to say don't say anything,

But you asked if anyone has tried it. Can you tell me what is good to say about acupuncture if you don't know if it works, but many can say it doesn't? Saying it doesn't work is a suggestion, too.

So you are simply saying, don't knock it, not that it works at all for CH. If it doesn't work for CH and you are suggesting it, can we be a bit critical?

Quote:

And anyway, why can't we all just get along?

I see no problem.

Title: Re: Accupunture
Post by Jobette on Nov 1^st, 2007, 4:18am

The only problem that I see is that you have taken a 4 week old innocent question and turned it into a campaign against acupunture or the chinese or something. It is stuff like this that keep people from interacting on this sight and others. Now I guess I will be called a Troll or whatever you call people that you might not agree with or who may have different ideas or opinions. I guess when you know it all, all you have left to do in knit pick everybody elses topics and or questions and opinions. Meanwhile "we" still suffer :'( :-*

Title: Re: Accupunture
Post by Kevin_M on Nov 1^st, 2007, 7:41am

on 11/01/07 at 04:18:58, Jobette wrote:

The only problem that I see is that you have taken a 4 week old innocent question and turned it into a campaign against acupunture or the chinese or something.

No Jobette. Just wondering how your "try something else" went, you won't say. If you are still suffering then we understand each other.

Quote:

Now I guess I will be called a Troll or whatever you call people that you might not agree with or who may have different ideas or opinions.

No anti-Chinese stuff, no troll, and don't be upset because someone differs in opinion

Quote:

Meanwhile "we" still suffer

because its understood.

Title: Re: Accupunture
Post by Steve_Gn on Nov 1^st, 2007, 8:28am

As I said, A touchy subject.

For those of you that had kind words to say...Thank You.

For the rest of you it's obvious, you just haven't suffered long enough.

Between migraines, clusters and tension headaches, I have suffered since I was 10. I am now 47. I have often said I would never know what life was like without headaches.

Even as a youngster, my Mom would take me to specialists. Being an Air Force brat, I have seen them all over the country. Even to this day, there is very little that can be done for migraines or clusters.
And the big kicker is 90% of the meds now have side effects of headaches. Just what I need, more headaches.

I decided 6 or 7 years ago to go my own route and try new things. I don't know about you folks, but I have done more research on clusters that any nero surgeon I have been to. I always felt like I was telling them more than they where telling me. And they did very little. I felt I could do more for myself than they could.

I found this site many years ago and was so relieved to find others that had the same problems. I used to post regular. However I stopped because they were so many angry people. Every time someone would post, a bunch would shoot them down. It used to bother me, however not anymore. Thats what makes the world such a great place...Freedom of Speech.

Do you really think that every time you try something new, that one or two times is going to make a difference?
I am guessing that all the angry folks in here are getting very good help from their Docs?? Meds are working fine??
You are pain free during a cycle?? If so, I would love to hear what you are taking. And I would love to know what the side effects of your meds are.

I am not here to fight or argue with any of you. I don't know any of you from a hole in the ground. I am here to tell you what has worked for me and continues to work.
I really don't care if you believe it or not. Every one is different. Some things work for some but not for others. My back up is shots, which I pay dearly for with no insurance. Shots don't work for everyone, but they help me.

I have told my acupuncturists about this sight. If someone in her field would like more info on what she is doing for me, she would be willing to give more info.
Bear in mind, it may not work for everyone. Yes, sometimes a session will trigger a cluster. I have had many triggered during a session. The cost is much cheaper than buying shots.

This is a site where we all suffer from the same thing. It would be nice to come here and get support. Instead I read stuff I would expect from someone who has never had a cluster. I don't get support from people that don't understand. How about a little here???

Steve Griffin

Title: Re: Accupunture
Post by seasonalboomer on Nov 1^st, 2007, 9:34am

Steve,

Sorry but if you are saying that over the course of 5 years the acupunturist finally has come upon the right answer I will compare my last 5 years of CH and realize that these things are different from year to year. I've had some years where the cycle was short, minor and almost made me believe things would be better. Followed by a year where the cycles were lnog and grueling.

I've tried alternatives. Kudzu was great for me one year. Not so good the next. Some cycles where O2 knocks back nearly 100% of the hits, other times where I have to resort to Imitrex half the time due to O2 not working as well.

I'm glad acupuncture is doing something for you. But, along with just about everything we deal with -- there is no "Answer".

But, sending a fellow sufferer off on a 5 year quest to find the right answer as a pin-cushion seems like an odd's-on loser of a recommendation.

And these drugs that some want to cite as "killing them" are miracles for many of us, that have given us back our lives.

Folks who get all defensive about their feedback on issues such as this don't ever think about how absolutely insensitive their own statements are about drugs that help so many of us. Think about that for awhile.

Scott

Title: Re: Accupunture
Post by Kevin_M on Nov 1^st, 2007, 11:31am

I agree with Seasonal, above.

on 11/01/07 at 08:28:46, Steve_Gn wrote:

For those of you that had kind words to say...Thank You.

For the rest of you it's obvious, you just haven't suffered long enough.

Pretty ghastly statement there, Steve. Anyone who was not kind to you needs to suffer more, then they will realize the risk, cost, and hopeful benefit of acupuncture? We are talking simply the use of acupuncture to treat clusters here, nothing else, that could be a good subject to keep to, and more supportive.

Quote:

I felt I could do more for myself than they could.

Not different from many, many of us here.

Quote:

My back up is shots, which I pay dearly for with no insurance. Shots don't work for everyone, but they help me.

Many have insurance and many do not. Preventatives work for some and not others but abortives kept nearby for most.
The difference being the chance a particular preventative will work for others. There are unusual methods individuals use, but going down a long road of acupunture for so long undoubtfully has it's very heavy risks balanced against hoped for benefits.

Quote:

If someone in her field would like more info on what she is doing for me, she would be willing to give more info.

I take it you have not shared in the acquired insight for it's treatment from her, however, as I inquired, what research did you give her that took it from a digestive problem to preventative?

Quote:

This is a site where we all suffer from the same thing. It would be nice to come here and get support. Instead I read stuff I would expect from someone who has never had a cluster. I don't get support from people that don't understand. How about a little here???

I still don't see how it is "obvious" we have not suffered enough and what you "expect" from someone who does suffer. No one wants to suffer more, that might be an expectation but what are the chances of that expectation being met using acupuncture? That seems more "obvious" than simply saying we have not suffered enough to be more accepting of accupuncture as a treatment.
Understanding goes both ways, I understand you find acupuncture acceptable, there is understanding the risk to others of fully following through with it as opposed to other avenues, with time being a big factor.

Quote:

If someone in her field would like more info on what she is doing for me, she would be willing to give more info.

Thank you for the offer.

Title: Re: Accupunture
Post by Steve_Gn on Nov 1^st, 2007, 3:01pm

Both points well taken.

Scott...

I'm glad acupuncture is doing something for you. But, along with just about everything we deal with -- there is no "Answer".

You are right, there is no answer. All we have is to keep trying new things.

But, sending a fellow sufferer off on a 5 year quest to find the right answer as a pin-cushion seems like an odd's-on loser of a recommendation.

You missed the point. Your fellow sufferer is me, I have already taken the journey. Any else may not have to go as long to get relief.

Folks who get all defensive about their feedback on issues such as this don't ever think about how absolutely insensitive their own statements are about drugs that help so many of us. Think about that for awhile.

I did think about that for a while. The difference is I never slam folks for something that they have that works for them. I took many of the drugs available today, they didn't work for me. If they work for others I think that is great.

Kevin.....

Pretty ghastly statement there, Steve. Anyone who was not kind to you needs to suffer more, then they will realize the risk, cost, and hopeful benefit of acupuncture? We are talking simply the use of acupuncture to treat clusters here, nothing else, that could be a good subject to keep to, and more supportive.

Pretty ghastly, Maybe.
Risk, minimal.
Cost, also minimal.
Hopeful benefit, Maybe pain free!!!
I guess I am a rare breed. CH have been with me for well over 20 years. I will stop at nothing to stop the pain.

I take it you have not shared in the acquired insight for it's treatment from her, however, as I inquired, what research did you give her that took it from a digestive problem to preventative?

I never said it was a preventative. I still have all the usual sensations that go with a cluster, just no pain.
My research gave her the the Thalamus. There is a pressure point for the thalamus located in the left ear.

, with time being a big factor.

You have nothing but time. We can all look forward to having CH well into our 50's

I am always here at this site reading about new meds and things that work for other folks. Don't think I haven't tried many of them. Every thing I try gets tried for one complete cycle. 14 weeks.
Once again, not all things work for all folks.
Take what works for you and be PAIN FREE!!!

Title: Re: Accupunture
Post by Kevin_M on Nov 1^st, 2007, 3:35pm

on 11/01/07 at 15:01:15, Steve_Gn wrote:

Risk, minimal.
Cost, also minimal.
Hopeful benefit, Maybe pain free!!!

What is the risk to job and family of going five years without it helping. What is the cost of the pain during that time.

Quote:

I never said it was a preventative.

Prevents pain.

Quote:

My research gave her the the Thalamus. There is a pressure point for the thalamus located in the left ear.

Sounds like 70's addiction therapy to prevent the acute pain of cold turkey.

Quote:

Take what works for you and be PAIN FREE!!!

Thanks.

Title: Re: Accupunture
Post by Jobette on Nov 1^st, 2007, 9:59pm

Since I started this please let me be the one to stop it. At the time of this post I was really being hit hard and I was feeling hopeless. Yes I take preventatives and have the abortives including O2 and I am blessed to have insurance and a desent job. I have been dealing with these HA's for about 20 years now. I was just diagnosed with clusters about 6-7 yrs ago, so I have sympathy and patience for people going through. I guess I was grasping for straws, but I went to the chiropractor for my neck (clusterneck)and he said that he could help me and my headaches. My headache doctor said that she could help me and I am still "here" so I thought, why not give it a try, and you know the rest. I was trying to see if anyone had tried anything like this before and that was all. I was just trying to help myself. I am so sorry that this has been blown out of proportion, I was just seeking advice from people who I thought knew what I was going through. I don't mean to offend anyone and their meds, but mine WERE killing me, but that's me. I will try to lay back and observe from now on and try to keep my stuff to myself, but I will not let anything stop me from jumping in if I think I can HELP someone, because it can be lonely fighting this beast by yourself. I have been fighting it for a long time and I still need help. I apologize for taking anything or opinion too personal. I am still learning alot of things, about alot of things. Jobette

Title: Re: Accupunture
Post by Kevin_M on Nov 1^st, 2007, 10:07pm

Hey cool, Jobette. Nothing to apologize for at all, wasn't out of proportion to anything.

I see you've been here awhile, so a rewelcoming to you. :)

Wishing you best

Title: Re: Accupunture
Post by Steve_Gn on Nov 2^nd, 2007, 9:29am

No damage done here either.

I was simply stating acupuncture has worked for me since I decided to go natural also.

I am curious about the chiropractic. Have you had any luck with that? I did try that to for a few years, but never seem to help much.

Title: Re: Accupunture
Post by seasonalboomer on Nov 2^nd, 2007, 9:41am

on 11/02/07 at 09:29:47, Steve_Gn wrote:

Go with your initial experience on the chiropractic......

Title: Re: Accupunture
Post by BarbaraD on Nov 3^rd, 2007, 12:19pm

Well, I'm glad to see you kids kissed and made up...

Anything is "worth" a try with these darn headaches. I know, I've tried about everything (legal and oh welll.....) and "finally" found something that's helping as a preventative for me, but it was a LOOONG road to it.

Chiropractic and accupuncture I gave a good shot with no results. But if it's working for anyone - I say go for it. My chiropractor really tried to help me, but finally told me he couldn't as did the accupunturist (although he did help my back).

Most of us will try "anything" to relieve this pain and with good reason. I said on another thread - just keep trying until you find "your" miracle drug/treatment and then enjoy the painfree time you have. Mine doesn't work all the time, but the time it does I cherish.

Hugs BD