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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Cluster Headache Specific >> HEADACHE Vol 27 No. 7 July/Aug 07
        
(Message started by: dannyboy on Aug 15th, 2007, 8:30am)
Title: HEADACHE Vol 27 No. 7 July/Aug 07
Post by dannyboy on Aug 15th, 2007, 8:30am
Perhaps a Clusterville e-librarian could post the article  "Predictors of Acute Treatment Response Among Patients With Cluster Headache" from the August edition of HEADACHE."

It's only a single case but it's a very interesting development for research and HEADACHE is one of the biggest journals in the world.

I checked the MB so if it's posted already apologies

For all lay people like me, the 'supra-orbital nerve' is the one that runs out of your eye socket and up over your eyebrow. If you rub your eyebrow about a half an inch from the bridge of your nose, you'll feel an indentation in the bone. That's where the nerve runs through.

Danny
Title: Re: HEADACHE Vol 27 No. 7 July/Aug 07
Post by E-Double on Aug 15th, 2007, 9:21am
Sorry, I don't have a subscription. We only have access to Pub-med....

Headache. 2007 Jul;47(7):1079-84. Links

Quote:
Predictors of acute treatment response among patients with cluster headache.Schürks M, Rosskopf D, de Jesus J, Jonjic M, Diener HC, Kurth T.
Department of Neurology, University of Duisberg-Essen, Essen, Germany.

Background.-Oxygen and triptans are drugs of first choice to abort cluster headache attacks. However, clinical predictors of treatment response are unavailable. Objective.-We aimed to identify predictors of acute treatment response among patients with cluster headache. Methods.-We investigated 246 cluster headache patients with available information on personal, headache, and lifestyle characteristics as well as effectiveness of acute medication use. We used logistic regression models to identify potential predictors of triptan and oxygen response. Results.-Triptans were effective in 137 of the 191 users and oxygen in 134 of the 175 users. We only identified increasing age (OR 0.96, 95% CI 0.93-0.99; P= .013) as a negative predictor for triptan response, while nausea/vomiting (OR 0.41, 95% CI 0.18-0.91; P= .029) and restlessness (OR 0.09, 95% CI 0.01-0.66; P= .019) were negative predictors of oxygen response. Conclusions.-Few clinical features seem to predict treatment nonresponse in cluster headache. More refined studies aiming at physiological and genetic characteristics seem promising in the future.

PMID: 17635600 [PubMed - in process]
Title: Re: HEADACHE Vol 27 No. 7 July/Aug 07
Post by dannyboy on Aug 20th, 2007, 5:19pm
Apologies E, correct Journal, but wrong article...

The one of consequence is "Supraorbital Nerve Electric Stimulation for the Treatment of Intractable Chronic Clsuter Headache: A Case Report"

I'll source the full article and post it. In the meantime the Pubmed blurb would be great...

Thanks
Danny
Title: Re: HEADACHE Vol 27 No. 7 July/Aug 07
Post by UN solved on Aug 20th, 2007, 5:34pm
There's a person here that has had this type of electric simulator put in. I believe he said it was a Trigeminal nerve stimulator, but it was described as an electrode(s) placed in, around, or under the affected eye. I tried e-mailing his doctor but the doctor gave me more or less a form letter inviting me to schedule an appointment and would not give me any details at all.

Was it "ZuestTheDog" that did that ? Sorry, I can't remember too well these days. Dog, was that you ? Anyone remember what I'm talking about ?

UNsolved

Edited 4 'gramor' once again !  ::)
Title: Re: HEADACHE Vol 27 No. 7 July/Aug 07
Post by dannyboy on Aug 21st, 2007, 3:26am
Is there a Dog-tor in the house?

What's interesting about the case reported in HEADACHE is that the nerve involved is outside the brain

I'll try to get access to the full article with out having to type it out

Danny
Title: Re: HEADACHE Vol 27 No. 7 July/Aug 07
Post by horsegirl on Aug 22nd, 2007, 12:45pm
I'm interested in this , Im sure everyone is. I wonder, do we realy need that nerve , and why cant they just remove it sense its outside of the brain .It sounds less invasive. I'm having shadows for some f*cked up reason. I'm suppose to be done for 3 more years. Yes I know , "the beast is unpredictable". >:(
Title: Re: HEADACHE Vol 27 No. 7 July/Aug 07
Post by Thimk on Aug 23rd, 2007, 5:34pm

on 08/21/07 at 03:26:40, dannyboy wrote:

...

What's interesting about the case reported in HEADACHE is that the nerve involved is outside the brain


Yes, and nerve blocks are injections to nerves outside the brain. And sinus problems (that can make things worse) and sinus surgery (that can sometimes make things better) are outside the brain.

There has been a maniacal focus on the hypothalamus. Yes, it is important.  Yes, for some people it may be the prime cause.  

But there is research on 'clusterheadaches' that do not involve the hypothalamus.  And it seems clear that anything that inflames the nerves in the jaws, sinuses, eye cavity or neck can bring on cluster pain in some people.  

That is why I think there might be something to the post on trigger point therapy - if there is damage to muscles (knots or 'trigger points') that activate pain circuits, this could irritate the trigeminal nerve and lower it's threshold for going bezerk. I don't know how many people (if any) might benefit from trigger point therapy, but it is a free do it yourself technique (or you can spend money to learn from a massage therapist trained in it or from a book).  It deserves consideration.
Title: Re: HEADACHE Vol 27 No. 7 July/Aug 07
Post by Thimk on Aug 23rd, 2007, 5:43pm
Horsegirl,

Attempts to treat CH by cutting nerves using surgery or radiation (gamma-knife) have a high risk of side effects. With one technique, the eyes have been permanently affected - drooping, sometimes unable to open or focus an eye. Or unable to smile or raise the eyebrow - one side of the face can lose normal muscle ability like in a stroke.

And they are not very effective - maybe because only the worse cases get considered for those treatments, and the worst cases may not be influenced so much by the external nerves.  In my opinion, people with recent onset CH, or with 'mild' (sure, that's what they call it) or moderate CH respond better to things like nerve blocks.  
Title: Re: HEADACHE Vol 27 No. 7 July/Aug 07
Post by Kevin_M on Aug 23rd, 2007, 5:59pm

on 08/23/07 at 17:34:32, Thimk wrote:
And it seems clear that anything that inflames the nerves in the jaws, sinuses, eye cavity or neck can bring on cluster pain in some people.


You must have several links of proof for this to post if it seems clear.
Title: Re: HEADACHE Vol 27 No. 7 July/Aug 07
Post by Rosybabe on Aug 23rd, 2007, 6:04pm
Man, did I do a nice job of acting," Bettis wrote in the book, "The Bus: My Life in and Out of a Helmet." "The thing is, I wasn't faking that I had an injury. I was just faking that the injury happened on that short-yardage play. I had to fool the coaches and the team's medical department into thinking the injury had occurred on that play. Otherwise, the Steelers would have had their reason to cut me and my salary."
Title: Re: HEADACHE Vol 27 No. 7 July/Aug 07
Post by Thimk on Aug 23rd, 2007, 9:21pm

on 08/23/07 at 17:59:43, Kevin_M wrote:
You must have several links of proof to this if it seems clear.



Yes, there have been studies on a variety of non-hypothalamus, outside the brain factors that can contribute to CH in some people.  Cervicogenic triggers, tumors and aneurysms in the cavernous sinus, endonasal contact points, carotid artery disection, vertebral artery dissection, etc, etc.  

With respect to colds and flu, there have been a number of people here that have reported getting hit unexpectedly after a bout with the flu - people who usually only get summer hits that get slammed the day after they recover from a severe cold.  No studies on that - but probably more than a coincidence - they seem to think so.  And there are more than a few papers on the neuroimmunological hypothesis of CH, where the immune system affects the nerves.


And Kevin, if CH is purely something that starts from the hypothalamus and goes directly to the trigeminal nerve, how could a nerve block in the neck or a nerve stimulator in the eye ever stop that??  Somehow it does ...



Quote:
: Cranio. 1997 Jan;15(1):89-93.
   Cluster-like signs and symptoms respond to myofascial/craniomandibular treatment: a report of two cases.
   Vargo CP, Hickman DM.

   Raleigh Regional Center for Head, Neck and Facial Pain in Beckley, West Virginia, Morgantown, USA.

   Two cases with pain profiles characteristic of cluster-like headache, both within and outside the trigeminal system, are reported. One male patient would typically awaken from sleep with severe unilateral temporal head pain and autonomic signs of ipsilateral lacrimation and nasal congestion. A female patient exhibited severe unilateral boring temporal and suboccipital head pain with associated ipsilateral lacrimation and rhinorrhea. In addition, both patients presented with signs and symptoms of masticatory and/or cervical disorders. These two cases illustrate possible treatment alternatives, as well as possible influences from cervical and masticatory structures in the development of cluster or cluster-like headache.


(Myofascial therapy involves deactivating knots or trigger points using massage, cryotherapy, or injections)
Title: Re: HEADACHE Vol 27 No. 7 July/Aug 07
Post by Jonny on Aug 23rd, 2007, 9:23pm
The reality show star entered a county jail for women in this Los Angeles suburb shortly after 3 p.m., Los Angeles County Sheriff's Deputy Johnie Jones said.

It's the same facility that housed her "The Simple Life" co-star Paris Hilton for nearly three weeks after she was convicted of driving on a suspended license while on probation for an alcohol-related reckless driving case.

Richie's arrival at jail was first reported by The Insider.
Title: Re: HEADACHE Vol 27 No. 7 July/Aug 07
Post by Jonny on Aug 23rd, 2007, 9:26pm
TUBA CITY - Jocelyn Billy, the reigning Miss Navajo, was one of the speakers at the grand-opening ceremonies for the Explore Navajo Interactive Museum here in late July. She spoke in her native language, then repeated her remarks in English. The message was the same:

It is time for Navajos to share their culture with the world.

Technically, the sharing process has been going on for years, because the Navajo Reservation contains some of the most recognizable landmarks in the Southwest: Canyon de Chelly, Monument Valley and Navajo National Monument. But tourists mostly come, look, photograph and leave. The museum is a step toward getting them to stay longer and acquire advertisement      



some understanding about the culture of their hosts.
Title: Re: HEADACHE Vol 27 No. 7 July/Aug 07
Post by Jonny on Aug 23rd, 2007, 9:29pm
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3cf08b3127cce9fbec02913e600000015108AZM2bNk5bM6
Title: Re: HEADACHE Vol 27 No. 7 July/Aug 07
Post by Thimk on Aug 23rd, 2007, 9:43pm

on 08/23/07 at 21:29:44, Jonny wrote:
http://im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b3cf08b3127cce9fbec02913e600000015108AZM2bNk5bM6


OK, Jonny.  I will take your advice and fuk off. I thought that maybe people would like to talk about CH or day to day stuff in a half-way reasonable manner, but I was obviously wrong.  Last time I was here, you called me a snake oil salesman for discussing fairly the science on whether mangosteen might or might not affect serotonin.

Now I put in my 2 cents on the science related to trigger points and myofascial therapy, and morons who are incapable of understand what is being discussed mock and insult. Seems like you all would rather play a game called duck-duck-troll and insult anyone that you suspect of not conforming to the unwritten rules of Clusterheadaches.cult

Adios,

Flo.  
Title: Re: HEADACHE Vol 27 No. 7 July/Aug 07
Post by UN solved on Aug 23rd, 2007, 9:47pm
The aliens perform staring procedures during which they gaze into abductees' eyes at at distance of only an inch or two. These "mindscan" procedures appear to be neurological manipulations which give the aliens the ability to "enter into" peoples' minds.

After the table procedures, abductees report that they are sometimes taken into other rooms where they are required to have skin on skin contact with unusual looking babies. Abductees say that these babies seem to be crosses between humans and aliens. They call them "hybrids." Abductees also see hybrid toddlers, older youth, adolescents, and adults.
Title: Re: HEADACHE Vol 27 No. 7 July/Aug 07
Post by horsegirl on Aug 23rd, 2007, 9:51pm
what the f*ck is it with you people?
Title: Re: HEADACHE Vol 27 No. 7 July/Aug 07
Post by Linda_Howell on Aug 23rd, 2007, 9:56pm

 
Shore Is Good Seafood Dip Recipe courtesy Paula Deen
Show:  Paula's Home Cooking
Episode:  Low Country Cuisine  



 


 
2 tablespoons butter
1 medium green bell pepper, diced
1 medium onion, diced
2 stalks celery, diced
1/2 of a 10 3/4-ounce can cream of shrimp soup (discard top half and use bottom part of soup)
1 cup mayonnaise
1/2 pound freshly grated Parmesan
1 (6-ounce) can crabmeat, picked free of any broken shells, drained
6 ounces shrimp, fresh or canned, drained
1/2 teaspoon white pepper

Preheat oven to 325 degrees F.
Melt the butter in a skillet over medium heat. Add the bell pepper, onion, and celery and saute for 2 minutes. In a bowl, combine the soup, mayonnaise, Parmesan, crabmeat, shrimp, and pepper. Stir the sauteed vegetables into the seafood mixture and spoon this mixture into a lightly greased 8 by 11-inch casserole dish. Bake for 30 minutes. Serve with toast points or crackers.
Title: Re: HEADACHE Vol 27 No. 7 July/Aug 07
Post by starlight on Aug 23rd, 2007, 10:47pm
I don't know about anyone else but I'll listen to what ThimK is saying--I'm open to new things especially if the guy's got an article there to back up some of his ideas.
Why?  I actually want my headaches to go away, for good, don't really give a damn about the "leading hypothoses" of a mysterious, poorly understood condition--don't really consider them THE BIBLE.  Remember Moses didn't appear with "cluster headaches truths" written on his stone tablet.  You got new ideas--I'll listen to them--20 years episodic--my mind's wide open.  
Title: Re: HEADACHE Vol 27 No. 7 July/Aug 07
Post by Kevin_M on Aug 23rd, 2007, 11:14pm

on 08/23/07 at 17:34:32, Thimk wrote:
There has been a maniacal focus on the hypothalamus. Yes, it is important.  Yes, for some people it may be the prime cause.  

But there is research on 'clusterheadaches' that do not involve the hypothalamus.  And it seems clear that anything that inflames the nerves in the jaws, sinuses, eye cavity or neck can bring on cluster pain in some people.  


You set up your statement by referring to a primal cause, then mentioned (with a "but" as if introducing an alternative to the previously mentioned primal cause as...) it's clear that anything that inflames the mentioned nerves brings on the cluster pain, inferring primal cause creating cluster pain from anything that inflames the nerves.  Speak clearer.  Your posted article does not mention anything about primal cause, only treatment.  That was the questioning.
Title: Re: HEADACHE Vol 27 No. 7 July/Aug 07
Post by Jimi on Aug 23rd, 2007, 11:25pm

Quote:
Adios,

Flo.  


Was that Flo?
Title: Re: HEADACHE Vol 27 No. 7 July/Aug 07
Post by starlight on Aug 23rd, 2007, 11:39pm
Does anyone ever challenge the "accepted" hypothalamus thing in their own brain?  To be honest I think if anything it's blurring the whole picture.  I'm sure everyone here has experienced "twinges"--do those come from the hypothalamus also, because when I feel them it feels much more like it is some kind of nerve aggravation.  Sometimes in cycle flourescent lighting can bring it on, sometimes nothing brings it on, etc.  What does flourescent lighting have to do with the hypothalamus?  I also get twinges out of cycle--brought on by duh I don't know.  I guess it is also hypothalamus.  Why does hypothalamus go whacky mad for 3-4 months and then settle down?  When someone gives me that answer then I will care about this great revelation of the hypothalamus but for now, where are the other missing pieces of the puzzle?  
Title: Re: HEADACHE Vol 27 No. 7 July/Aug 07
Post by Kevin_M on Aug 23rd, 2007, 11:45pm

on 08/23/07 at 23:39:48, starlight wrote:
I'm sure everyone here has experienced "twinges"--do those come from the hypothalamus also, because when I feel them it feels much more like it is some kind of nerve aggravation.  Sometimes in cycle flourescent lighting can bring it on, sometimes nothing brings it on, etc.  What does flourescent lighting have to do with the hypothalamus?  I also get twinges out of cycle--brought on by duh I don't know.  I guess it is also hypothalamus.  


Does this happen to people who do not have clusters?

Probably not.  So is it the nerve itself only that decides to get activated on it's own from photosensitivity that can lead to immense pain?  The type of cluster pain does not come from a nerve's starting reaction to photosensitivity, although they can be far more sensitive to it during a hit.  What causes that nerve to react that way?  Let's not forget artery bulging too.
Title: Re: HEADACHE Vol 27 No. 7 July/Aug 07
Post by Kevin_M on Aug 24th, 2007, 12:29am

on 08/23/07 at 17:34:32, Thimk wrote:
There has been a maniacal focus on the hypothalamus. Yes, it is important.  Yes, for some people it may be the prime cause.  

But there is research on 'clusterheadaches' that do not involve the hypothalamus.  And it seems clear that anything that inflames the nerves in the jaws, sinuses, eye cavity or neck can bring on cluster pain in some people.  

That is why I think there might be something to the post on trigger point therapy - if there is damage to muscles (knots or 'trigger points') that activate pain circuits, this could irritate the trigeminal nerve and lower it's threshold for going bezerk.


Damaged muscles in proximity to the trig nerve can regulate pain on a timely and regular basis, totally unidentified previously and then just disappear for up to years in episodics?  What would control all that?  

Links please, explaining this mechanism.  

If you're Flo, I know you will somehow.   :)
Title: Re: HEADACHE Vol 27 No. 7 July/Aug 07
Post by LeLimey on Aug 24th, 2007, 2:45am
Was that Flo?

FLO MY ARSE!

Flo wouldn't come back in here pretending to be from the Netherlands and talking broken english - he has more self respect than that. I do not believe for one minute that Flo would stoop so low as to pretend such crap.

That was a smokescreen by someone we know - and when you think about it you all know that too.

Title: Re: HEADACHE Vol 27 No. 7 July/Aug 07
Post by nani on Aug 24th, 2007, 10:51am

on 08/23/07 at 23:25:37, Jimi wrote:
Was that Flo?



Yes, it was.  :-[  
Sorry, Flo... we thought you were someone else.
Title: Re: HEADACHE Vol 27 No. 7 July/Aug 07
Post by Kevin_M on Aug 24th, 2007, 11:27am

C'mon back to discuss more, Jon, we can communicate on the same page better maybe.  Usually always have in the past.
Title: Re: HEADACHE Vol 27 No. 7 July/Aug 07
Post by MJ on Aug 24th, 2007, 11:43am

Was that a burst of added intelligent thought I saw. I think so.

If that was Floridian, your needed here.
Title: Re: HEADACHE Vol 27 No. 7 July/Aug 07
Post by BarbaraD on Aug 24th, 2007, 2:36pm
Well, I know I had my trigeminal nerve microwaved (stereo-tactic radio-frequency trigeminal rhizitomy) years ago as a last resort (that or a bullet at the time) and it stopped the pain for a few weeks and then it came back.

I've talked to a few people who had this surgery that have been pain free since the surgery, but more have not been helped that much.

There's also an electronic stimulator with a magnet that's used for epilepsy that's been suggested for CH. Don't know how that's working. I was going to look into it but never got around to it. I know it works for epilepsy cause my cousin had it done and it worked for him.

I guess I'm open to new things too. I just want a cure for CH.

Hugs BD
Title: Re: HEADACHE Vol 27 No. 7 July/Aug 07
Post by Jonny on Aug 24th, 2007, 10:42pm

on 08/23/07 at 21:43:27, Thimk wrote:
OK, Jonny.  I will take your advice and fuk off. I thought that maybe people would like to talk about CH or day to day stuff in a half-way reasonable manner, but I was obviously wrong.  Last time I was here, you called me a snake oil salesman for discussing fairly the science on whether mangosteen might or might not affect serotonin.
Adios,

Flo.  


Get over yourself, Flo......I have never bad mouthed you and you know it!

Next time why dont you come back so we know you, instead of starting shit as an unknown?

Are you that stupid?......I didnt think so at one time!
Title: Re: HEADACHE Vol 27 No. 7 July/Aug 07
Post by gore2424 on Aug 25th, 2007, 2:22am
After 17 years spring and fall always and since becoming chronic Nov. 1999 I had tried it all tried over 67 different meds in many combos ,O2 ,Trex, Er 2-3 times a month hospital stays for DHE treatments suicidel missing time at work and most important missing my two kids growing up couldnt be there at track meets special awards at school In May 2003 I had the trigeminal rhizitomy
done at Mayo Clinic in Rochester Minn. and I only got just a little over 4 months relief then BAM right back in  full force they cut and went in and cut the trigeminal nerve on right side now face numb there forever hardest thing was learning to eat again without bitting your lipp or inside cheek sorry I rambled on but BarbaraD I know how you feel about having the trigeminal rhizitomy done and how it affects your life
"""""""""""""NOW PLEASE EVERYONE""""""""""""""""" can you at lest when a newbee comes on and you think  its a troll and are 100% then blast them but if someone new comes on and "needs/wants/ to talk about something could you in some cases give them a break and either ignore them or talk and nicely explain if they post wrong are or misinformed and needing help THATS WHAT I BElive
Terry (tired of seeing "negitives" on this message board)
Title: Re: HEADACHE Vol 27 No. 7 July/Aug 07
Post by horsegirl on Aug 25th, 2007, 10:51pm
:) well said.


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