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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Cluster Headache Specific >> MSG Trigger or Aggravate CH?
        
(Message started by: rolo65 on Jul 1^st, 2007, 11:20am)

Title: MSG Trigger or Aggravate CH?
Post by rolo65 on Jul 1^st, 2007, 11:20am

Has anyone ever noticed a correlation between MSG and cluster severity?

I recently had a 24 hour bout of constant up down cluster attacks and found the next day that something I ate was loaded with MSG. It is just another thing to add to my list of aggravating substances like beer, cola, and strawberries. Then two days later I’m back to my usual 5-7 PM window thank GOD! I just can’t do the drugs and don’t want to start up on that crappy road again. Any comments on the MSG or other chemical additives will be appreciated. I think I am starting to become allergic to many things that never bothered me before. I really miss my beloved BEER but found vodka and rum don’t aggravate my CH, it now seems it’s what I mix with my alcohol i.e. cola. I get slammed before I can even drink a third of a can of beer or cola. So I just drink a lot more water and it helps.

Roland. [smiley=beer.gif]

Title: Re: MSG Trigger or Aggravatie CH?
Post by DennisM1045 on Jul 1^st, 2007, 11:26am

I can't eat Chinese food any more either. I noticed the MSG link about two years ago. :(

Title: Re: MSG Trigger or Aggravatie CH?
Post by Shedz on Jul 1^st, 2007, 11:28am

I think there MAY be a link to MSG, but its not something I could be 100% on.
Ive noticed that when in cycle my hits are slightly worse if my diet is poor ( processed food, takeaways etc). But most of these foods are low in nutritional value, so its just easier to eat a healthy balanced diet all year through.

Now wheres the closest McDonalds.... ;;D

Paul.

Title: Re: MSG Trigger or Aggravatie CH?
Post by Wayne on Jul 1^st, 2007, 11:30am

Howzit Roland

I have also found a strong link between the type of beer and the reaction. I can drink Stout (Guiness) no problem, and the purer beers such as Windhoek (Local beer proclaiming to be preservative free). but let me touch one of the more popular "mass produced" brands and I'm a gonner after 2 pints. I don't know exactly what it is but I suspect its something they put in to speed up the fermentation process. I'm also ok with whisky and water and, my favourite when I'm worried about a hit, Vodka and Redbull.

Cheers,

Wayne

Title: Re: MSG Trigger or Aggravate CH?
Post by UN solved on Jul 1^st, 2007, 11:31am

MSG is usually not a factor in CH. The hits will still continue.

UNsolved

Title: Re: MSG Trigger or Aggravate CH?
Post by Shedz on Jul 1^st, 2007, 11:34am

Alcohol is a complete no no for me when in cycle.
Guaranteed a very vicious visit from the beast [smiley=frown.gif]

Paul.

Title: MSG Trigger or Aggravate CH?
Post by rolo65 on Jul 1^st, 2007, 11:52am

I am chronic so there’s no in or out of cycle for me. The only difference is how often and the severity of the attacks. Being that I get hit so regularly I have gotten to know my triggers well.

I also think there’s something in the beer or process of brewing that causes the CH aggravation in me personally. As we all know everyone is different in our triggers.

I am more concerned in the MSG issue because it’s a lot harder to know what is in the food I eat on the run. I must take much more care to read the ingredients on packaging.

PF wishes to all!

Roland.

Title: Re: MSG Trigger or Aggravate CH?
Post by GrandPotentate on Jul 1^st, 2007, 5:59pm

I had some bad hits after beer and after chinese food during the last cycle. I tried to deny the beer thing several times, unsuccessfully. But the beer test is a good way to find out the cycle is truly over. While in cycle, its something I can look forward to.

Title: Re: MSG Trigger or Aggravate CH?
Post by MR_FLOOR on Jul 1^st, 2007, 8:54pm

I never noticed the MSG thing,yet I don't eat that much Chinese food.But the beer or any alcohol for that matter is a no no for me.Boy I wish I could have a cold one again. [smiley=beer.gif]

Dave

Title: Re: MSG Trigger or Aggravate CH?
Post by BarbaraD on Jul 2^nd, 2007, 9:00am

Several people have had reactions to MSG (Beer is a widely known trigger for bunches of us). I had a reaction to MSG one time, but not since. Didn't relate it till later but have eaten Chinese food ever since with nada reaction.

Beer I stayed away from for 12 years and then drank one and nothing -- I just don't drink one often, but so far haven't had a headache when I do (I'm chronic). Weird, but.... who knows with these things.

Hugs BD

Title: Re: MSG Trigger or Aggravate CH?
Post by greatwhiteshark on Jul 2^nd, 2007, 12:29pm

Hi Roland

I have been eposodic since age 22, i'm 43 now. A year and a half ago I was in Mexico at an all inclusive,(prior to that I was pain free for over a year) After day 3 of REALLY getting into the free beer and food the beast found me. Needless to say I had to watch my buddy drink for the rest of the trip.

I'm now thinking that the food was the trigger, I also got really ill and was unable to eat anthing. That kind of expains why I never got hit again really hard. I had the shadows, but no attack.

I had planned to go again this fall to make up for a wasted, ruined trip, but now I have to re think about not going to an all inclusive.. I learn somthing new every day on this site,, Cheers

Darren

Title: Re: MSG Trigger or Aggravate CH?
Post by E-Double on Jul 2^nd, 2007, 12:37pm

nope.
only trigger I have is annoying people

Title: Re: MSG Trigger or Aggravate CH?
Post by GrandPotentate on Jul 2^nd, 2007, 8:02pm

"only trigger I have is annoying people"

You're triggered when you are annoying people?

Title: Re: MSG Trigger or Aggravate CH?
Post by E-Double on Jul 2^nd, 2007, 9:42pm

on 07/02/07 at 20:02:52, GrandPotentate wrote:

"only trigger I have is annoying people"

You're triggered when you are annoying people?

You just set one off.

Thanks! ::)

Anyway,
If you not only read the research but read through thousands of posts, you will see that it is rare that CH'ers have true triggers by definition other than nitroglycerine, alcohol, relaxation (sleep), overexertion to name a few.
There are some who report being triggered by flickering lights, food additives and some other random things.

Do you keep a headache chart?
There is definitely a difference between having things aggrivated and having an attack triggered.

Best of luck
Even to the one who attempted a dig.

E

Title: Re: MSG Trigger or Aggravate CH?
Post by mabus on Jul 2^nd, 2007, 10:32pm

on 07/01/07 at 11:34:48, Shedz wrote:

Alcohol is a complete no no for me when in cycle.
[smiley=frown.gif]

Paul.

Me too! I'm in the wine biz, so alcohol is a normal part of my life - OUT of cycle. When I'm IN cycle, I can't even taste and spit, the tiny, tiny amount absorped through the mouth is enough to bring on a day-hit, which is something I almost NEVER get any more.
I wish I were one of those that could do a whickey and water while the Beast is a knocking.
I have noticed that the intensity of the hits after Chinese Food/MSG is increased, but not the numbers of hits. That remains constant.

Title: Re: MSG Trigger or Aggravate CH?
Post by GrandPotentate on Jul 2^nd, 2007, 11:18pm

"Even to the one who attempted a dig."
Sorry, but I couldn't pass up on a double entendre from the double-e.

But seriously:

One other weird thing I've noticed myself, and from other posts, is that triggers seem to change during a cycle. The chart is an excellent idea. But it seems that the triggers are complicated - perhaps a combination of things. My cycle is usually over before I figure it out, but each cycle I get a bit smarter. And if you're talkin' Chinese food, who knows what's in it?

I had Chinese early in the last cycle, a rare nice night out with no problem. I had Chinese 2 weeks later and got clobbered. Hard. Beer didn't bother the beast early, but later was a one-hour time bomb. Go figure.

Of course, I also had them with no beer and with no Chinese.

Between cycles, no problem. I even spent a couple weeks in China last year, ate their food, drank their beer.

Title: Re: MSG Trigger or Aggravate CH?
Post by eyes_afire on Jul 3^rd, 2007, 8:19pm

MSG doesn't bother my CH. It's a good thing because I probably eat way too much of it. Actually, most people probably eat more of it than they realize:

These things contain (or are) MSG:

glutamate
glutamic acid
gelatin
monosodium glutamate
calcium caseinate
textured protein
monopotassium glutamate
sodium caseinate
yeast nutrient
yeast extract
yeast food
autolyzed yeast
hydrolyzed protein
hydrolyzed corn gluten

These things often contain MSG:

textured protein
carrageenan
vegetable gum
seasonings
spices
flavorings
natural flavorings
chicken flavoring
beef flavoring
pork flavoring
smoke flavoring
bouillon
broth
stock
barley malt
malt extract
malt flavoring
whey protein
whey protein isolate
whey protein concentrate
soy protein
soy protein isolate
soy protein concentrate
soy sauce
soy extract

Also, MSG can be a natural vegetable by-product. For example, as a tomato ripens, the level of glutamate rises. Glutamate can also be the by-product of a fermentation process such as with aged cheese. The body processes artificial MSG and natural glutamates in the same way.

--- Steve

Title: Re: MSG Trigger or Aggravate CH?
Post by ordinary_joe on Jul 5^th, 2007, 5:19am

Steve, Thank you for the list.

Excellent stuff from all of you. I gave up ALL alcohol about 15 years ago because the risk / reward ratio went the other way. All booze was a trigger. I was getting hammered ( funny how the same words are also applied to drinking) by CH for 6-8 months cycles.
MSG, in Chinese food, anyway, is a definite explosive in- cycle... may or not be a trigger.
I just finished 3rd O2 hook in 6 hours. It is working well but I am using 4 tanks in 7 days.

Doing not too badly in week #2..... :)

Title: Re: MSG Trigger or Aggravate CH?
Post by Buzz on Jul 6^th, 2007, 5:14am

Hmmmmm. Chinese food... I do believe you've just pointed out a trigger that I never really thought about...I got a severe hiding after Chinese last week...
*crosses Chinese food off his list

Does anyone have cravings? I am fruit salad mad at the moment; I feel the need to eat cool, astringent, fresh, light stuff... Its like a compulsion. Weird.

Title: Re: MSG Trigger or Aggravate CH?
Post by LeLimey on Jul 6^th, 2007, 6:00am

Buzz I get like that but I don't think its CH related as just a general thing. I go through periods where I obsess with some foods and like you its usually salads or fruit (or tomatoes but that is a long term obsession LOL)

Your body will let you know what it wants.

Mine wants to win the lottery ;;D

Title: Re: MSG Trigger or Aggravate CH?
Post by sandie99 on Jul 6^th, 2007, 8:12am

I would not mind winning the lottery myself... ;;D

Seriously, I've got persistent shadows after eating Chinese food twice, but I've been fine many occasions after that. But I made that connection myself, but I kinda wish the beast would stay consistent; if some are off menu, they could stay that way... ::)

My body seems to love carrots. I've been craving them for years now! [smiley=laugh.gif]

Sanna

Title: Re: MSG Trigger or Aggravate CH?
Post by michael on Jul 6^th, 2007, 9:06am

Never in 40 years can I ever remember a CH being triggered by alcohol.

Unfortunately that doesn't really help me, because I rarely drink anymore.

Mike

Title: Re: MSG Trigger or Aggravate CH?
Post by Klusterkopf on Jul 6^th, 2007, 10:26am

MSG has never been a problem for me, but any kind of alcohol, yes. People in my town have been talking of having me tried for treason because I do not drink beer anymore! We take our beer drinking VERY seriously-not to mention our Schnapps drinking, so I won't mention it. :-X

Title: Re: MSG Trigger or Aggravatie CH?
Post by Patrick_A on Jul 7^th, 2007, 11:58am

on 07/01/07 at 11:26:02, DennisM1045 wrote:

I can't eat Chinese food any more either. I noticed the MSG link about two years ago. :(

YES.... Make a conscientious effort to stay away from MSG's. Eat only natural foods. It is very hard to do.

Patrick_A

Title: Re: MSG Trigger or Aggravate CH?
Post by GrandPotentate on Jul 7^th, 2007, 6:54pm

My cycle seems to be over, and this thread made me really hungry for Chinese. I'll let you know how it works out.

Title: Re: MSG Trigger or Aggravate CH?
Post by Barry_T_Coles on Jul 8^th, 2007, 7:20am

I’ve narrowed the main source of my triggers down to preservatives.
I used to think it was beer & chocolate ( I can drink cocoa & not a problem, eat chockys & A/T I go )but after keeping an eye on what I have eaten & drunk and then compared that to when I get hit the preservatives & the hits line up.
Now it’s a matter of working out which preservatives are the culprit.

I am also a mild asthmatic & MSG is definately a No No.

Cheers
Barry

Title: Re: MSG Trigger or Aggravate CH?
Post by Rosybabe on Jul 8^th, 2007, 10:23am

I do get hit if I eat something smoked. when I am in cyle my hit is harder than ever if I eat a little of soy sauce or a bit of smoked ham. Out of cyclee I get a friking migraine with smoked food!! not good either time :-/

Title: Re: MSG Trigger or Aggravate CH?
Post by GrandPotentate on Jul 8^th, 2007, 11:19pm

My cycle seems to be over, and this thread made me really hungry for Chinese. I'll let you know how it works out.

Yum. I have passed the beer test and have passed the Chinese test.

During the cycle, there was a lot of stuff that just didn't work for me. I'm not sure what was triggers - maybe combinations of things. Maybe I was doomed to have the hit anyway, and the "trigger" just made it happen at that certain time. I ate less, drank less, walked a lot more, and lost about 5 pounds. I'd probably do good to adopt some healthier habits now, as well, perhaps keep the streak going.

Jon

Title: Re: MSG Trigger or Aggravate CH?
Post by ordinary_joe on Jul 9^th, 2007, 11:26am

MSG ignited this cycle. An Italian sandwich ( salami, provolone, peppers, oil and vinegar) gave me a Kip 8.
Today, I am better. Just starting week #3.
Wish me luck, please. I am now 13 hours PF.
If this continues, I credit 02, Maxalt dissolving tablets, Pred taper. If not, hey, I have done this before, right?

Title: Re: MSG Trigger or Aggravate CH?
Post by horsegirl on Jul 9^th, 2007, 4:21pm

hey thats the exact combo i use except i also use verapimil.

Title: Re: MSG Trigger or Aggravate CH?
Post by ordinary_joe on Jul 9^th, 2007, 6:53pm

The Italian sandwich or the meds?
:)

Title: Re: MSG Trigger or Aggravate CH?
Post by cyberone on Jul 11^th, 2007, 2:37pm

ive been keeping a headache diary this cycle as my doc has told me i need it to see the top headache doc in japan....

things ive found out..

1. alcohol brings on a HA every time.

2. if i keep drinking after a hit the next day/days the hits are not as bad (if i drink heaps the i will either get screwed over the next day or have nothing (yay a few hours rest!!))

3. smoking close to or after a hit makes it worse..

4. the more sleep i get the worse i get hit (if im REALLY tired i wont wake up as much in then night with strange dreams and hits)

5. when im busy i don't get his as bad (just keep trucking on....with tears in my eye)

^. o2 takes off the edge...

7. well maybe thats it for now.....lol

lol

Title: Re: MSG Trigger or Aggravate CH?
Post by AlienSpaceGuy on Jul 17^th, 2007, 5:38pm

UN solved wrote: "MSG is usually not a factor in CH"
E-Double wrote: "... you will see that it is rare that CH'ers have true triggers"

Guys, remember, neither 'usually not' nor 'rare' is equivalent to 'impossible'.

When I hit this site sometime in the last millennium, I heard for the first time that triggers for CH might exist. Luckily alcohol is none for me [smiley=me&mb.gif]

I started a diary, writing up all the ingredients in the stuff I ate. But the only possible candidate I identified was hazelnuts. Only when someone on the board (I think it was Kip) mentioned MSG as a possible trigger it suddenly dawned on me that I wasn't seeing the wood for all the trees; that diabolic nerve-poison is almost ubiquitous!

Since I learnt to avoid MSG the number of attacks has greatly reduced. (Luckily, the the grocery where I shop has a line if dairy and meat products guaranteed free of MSG).

Proof: In the first half of this year I had to hit oxygen only 2-4 times a week. Now I'm just back from 2 weeks in hospital (for another 22 inch bypass) where I hit oxygen 4-8 times a day, although I didn't even look the soup, fuck Nestlé.

If you want to know what the multi billion $$ MSG lobby is dissimulating about their infernal stuff visit www.truthinlabeling.org