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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Cluster Headache Specific >> Newbie needs advice
        
(Message started by: roostaboosta on Apr 30^th, 2007, 4:46pm)

Title: Newbie needs advice
Post by roostaboosta on Apr 30^th, 2007, 4:46pm

Hi all, I'm 8 weeks into a real s**t of a cycle :-[. This is only my second , the first being 7 years ago, was relatively mild and only for around 5 weeks. Having found this and the OUCH website I have been able to tell the doc what I require, ie. sumitriptan injections, oxygen and verapamil which has now been increased to 360 mg per day. So all in all, I'm just about getting by, however, my question is.... whether Verapamil could possibly cause an episodic sufferer to turn into a chronic sufferer as that is the general belief by some chronics I have spoken too? :o

Title: Re: Newbie needs advice
Post by LeLimey on Apr 30^th, 2007, 4:49pm

There isn't any evidence to suggest this other than anecdotal - 360mg is still quite a low dose, are there any plans for you to increase it any higher?

Helen

Title: Re: Newbie needs advice
Post by roostaboosta on Apr 30^th, 2007, 4:55pm

Well, I could certainly do with an increase, started off on 120 mg, no use, I stopped two days ago because of the conversation I had but now back on em as the hits were very bad. Not sure what to do really.

Title: Re: Newbie needs advice
Post by LeLimey on Apr 30^th, 2007, 5:03pm

Personally I'd take it, I think there is more to going chronic than verapamil. I was 28 weeks into my first ever cycle before I tried verapamil and I wasn't on it for very long as my BP is too low for me to be able to get high enough for an effective dose.

480mg tends to be an average but some people need to go right to 960mg to get effect from it. I'd take it if it was me, I don't see any point in suffering if you can try something that will potentially help. It is first line of defence when it comes to CH (verap) and it wouldn't be if there were any serious concerns of it sending people chronic!!

Title: Re: Newbie needs advice
Post by roostaboosta on Apr 30^th, 2007, 5:22pm

I suppose it beats having the crap knocked out of me each day,lol. Thanks for your advice. Tell you what though, I could kill a beer! :P

Title: Re: Newbie needs advice
Post by BB on Apr 30^th, 2007, 6:18pm

Hi Roosta,

Sorry to hear you are getting a high cycle.

Helen is absolutely right as usual. There is no real evidence that Verapamil causes someone to go chronic. Many people here start out being chronic from the beginning, many others take Verapamil for a long time and still remain episodic, others would go chronic no matter what. The fact is, up until now, no one knows for sure what causes or why an episodic would turn chronic. There are many speculations, some blame Verapamil, some blame smoking, some say its narcotics .... All the while it could just be a natural progression of the condition for all we know.

Verapamil itself is just a blood pressure tablets. It works by blocking the Calcium channel in the cells reducing blood vessel spasm/dilation and reducing nerve excitation. It is very widely prescribed to the general population for high blood pressure. Based on its chemical and biochemical effects known, I personally cant see why and how it can turn an episodic to chronic, because it doesnt directly affect the functions of the hypothalamus. But thats my personal opinion.

The dosage at which Verapamil works for CH varies but mostly its higher than 360 mgs per day. Unless side effects or heart condition prevents you from taking more, it maybe a good idea to try to increase the dose a bit. Please discuss it with your doctor.

Have you got a good neurologist? Its great that you can tell your doc what you need but it alarmed me that maybe the doc you are seeing has no idea what he/she is doing. CH is a very complex condition. You really need to be under the care of a good specialist who is experienced in treating headaches.

How well is the oxygen working for you ? Have you tried ice ? What about Red Bull ? Did you try the waterx3 methods? All these little things can add up to reduce the intensity of the hits for you. Also if this cycle is really bad, have you consider a short prednisone tapering course to tame things down a bit more?

There are A LOT of things that can be applied to help put the situation back into the "controllable" box for you. But you do need to check with your doc about them because no one here can physically see or examine you. Thats why having a doc who knows how to treat CH well is a must.

Take care and painfree wishes to you.

Annette

Title: Re: Newbie needs advice
Post by TonyG1 on Apr 30^th, 2007, 8:09pm

Hi Roosta -- Helen and Annette are correct, there is no evidence to suggest verap would make one go chronic. I'm episodic like yourself and take verap everyday -- I've been out of cycle since late January; however, still taking it for BP. I generally like to stay at the lowest dosage I can get by with for CH (personal preference) -- the million dollar question for episodics is when does the cycle end and where does the medication begin.... I get less frequent / intense hits but when the cycle ends I know definatively. Taking verap won't prevent another cycle from happening either ... <sigh> I would speak to my doc if I were you.

Best of luck and wishing you many pain free days and nights !!

Tony

Title: Re: Newbie needs advice
Post by pieface_49 on Apr 30^th, 2007, 9:17pm

Hello roostaboosta,
Hay Y'all (plural?) from Arkansas :). There is talk in this thread of Imitrex and re-occurrence of CH. Now I am puzzled. What is singular for Y'all? Anyways, you would not know :)

http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=meds;action=display;num=1176862016

Donnie

Title: Re: Newbie needs advice
Post by chrisw on May 1^st, 2007, 9:35am

I dont think verap can make you chronic. I started verap on my last cycle, and I went one and half yrs. pain free. I stayed on a mild dose thinking that would prevent future cycles, and that I had found the cure. It didnt prevent my next cycle from starting, and it didnt pack as big a punch anymore, maybe from being on it for so long... I do know however, that it was helping with the pain levels, because when I tried to detox, i just about died from the pain.

I would give it a try if I was you. It has few side effects, and it just may be the answer to your prayers.

good luck,
chrisw

Title: Re: Newbie needs advice
Post by TonyG1 on May 1^st, 2007, 8:03pm

on 04/30/07 at 21:17:08, pieface_49 wrote:

Hay Y'all (plural?) from Arkansas :). Now I am puzzled. What is singular for Y'all? Anyways, you would not know :)

Donnie

Huh ??