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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Cluster Headache Specific >> A Super Strange Hit!!!
        
(Message started by: Superpain on Mar 26^th, 2007, 5:37pm)

Title: A Super Strange Hit!!!
Post by Superpain on Mar 26^th, 2007, 5:37pm

To say the least...
I had a situation arise at work Saturday night where I was threatened with violence by another employee and I was really upset after I got home so I drank about 5 beer and a couple of shots.
It felt freakin great! And yes I got hit about every 30 min's, but I managed the hits with O2 and it was a fair trade.

But in the morning I got hit with an attack that I've never experienced before. I don't know if it was related to drinking or not. It was 4-5 hrs after my last drink at about 8am.
I shot up out of a deep sleep and immediately went for a trex spray. It came on so fast and hard I was stunned and didn't know what to do. My wife asked why I wasn't hitting the O2, so I ran to it.
The weird thing besides the ferocity and speed of the hit was how it felt. It's hard to explain, but it was like the pain was backwards or inside out somehow, and everything I usually do to make it feel better immediately increased the pain 2 fold. I was screaming at the top of my lungs flopping around on the verge of a seizure and it just got worse and worse. I started to cry and I could feel the tears inside my head start to well up in my tear ducts and it increased the pain so much it made me not shed a tear, but instead felt like it was going to blow the front of my face off!
It was probably the most ferocious out of control, full blast attack I've ever experienced. Thank god it only lasted 20 minutes.
I've been getting some severe hits lately and it continues to shock me when I get these super hits how f'n bad it hurts! It's shocking!!!

Could these be due to rebounds? Please describe to me how you know when it's a rebound in your experience...

Title: Re: A Super Strange Hit!!!
Post by ClusterChuck on Mar 26^th, 2007, 6:05pm

I think it was the cumulative effect of the booze ...

Those that I call rebounds, are never as severe as the actual hit. It is always, for me, at least, of lesser intensity.

Chuck

Title: Re: A Super Strange Hit!!!
Post by georgej on Mar 26^th, 2007, 7:56pm

The alcohol, I think. Takes hours to metabolize that much alcohol out of your system.

Best,

George

Title: Re: A Super Strange Hit!!!
Post by pieface_49 on Mar 26^th, 2007, 8:58pm

I have been using alcohol in an attempt to abort a hit and only recently (Sat, March 24th) learned alcohol is not to be used as a sedative. My feeble mind had thought the quickest way to relieve pain was to drink. The Loricet Plus did nothing and took 45 minutes to take effect. I had always wondered if alcohol intensifies as well prolongs the hit. I ended up in the ER two weeks ago when I used alcohol to relieve the beast that was in progress. I went to bed at 11pm and by midnight I was out of bed in pain. The pain continued to intensify for a half hour and I pulled out a bottle of crown and a beer. Sometimes when a hit is coming on, if I take a shot of alcohol it will sometimes take the hit away. I now believe this is fallacy. This time it just pissed the beast off and I ended up in the throes of one of the worse hits I have ever had. One hour later (1:30am) an ambulance was on its way. Hopefully, lesson learned. This is over two weeks later and I still feel the residuals from the hit two weeks ago.

I would like to thank everyone for their help and allowing me to understand what is wrong with me.

Title: Re: A Super Strange Hit!!!
Post by MaxPayne on Mar 27^th, 2007, 9:30am

I told you in an earlier post dude. If you drink alcohol, take a trex shot instead of O2 when the beast hits ya. Halftime for trex is about 8 hours I think. Better yet, pop a 100mg pill of sumatriptan, that'll keep you partying all nite, if ya want. Anyway that works for me if I want to have a beer or five with my friends.

Alcohol is a major trigger for me, so I usually don't touch it until the end of my cycle. My cycle ended last week thank god! Went skiing in the mountains with my buddies this weekend, and had a major boozeout. Been 13 "white" weeks this year wich probably was good for me anyway. Not that I drink that much when I am out of cycle.

Last drink I had before this was new years eve. Beast woke me up in the middle of the night and made me puke from the pain, so f**k that.

Title: Re: A Super Strange Hit!!!
Post by nani on Mar 27^th, 2007, 9:44am

I'm chronic (though I hardly ever get actual hits) and alcohol is not always a trigger. BUT sometimes it is. So...I don't drink. I've had 2 drinks in two years (both at OUCH conventions). I didn't get hit in 05, but I did in 06... the next day.
Drinking is just not worth it for me. Like playing Russian Roulette... no thanks.

Title: Re: A Super Strange Hit!!!
Post by Julygirl0721 on Mar 27^th, 2007, 5:28pm

I agree with Nani I just stay away from drinking I have had maybe 2 drinks in the past 4 or 5 years. May help some with the pain but not worth it for me :)

Julygirl

Title: Re: A Super Strange Hit!!!
Post by Guiseppi on Mar 27^th, 2007, 6:01pm

I'm one of the lucky ones. Off cycle it's safe for me cuz I love my dark beers and my blended whiskies. On cycle I don't even think it!

Guiseppi

Title: Re: A Super Strange Hit!!!
Post by Rosybabe on Mar 27^th, 2007, 6:04pm

man, even when I am out of cycle if I drink two or three sips of a red wine glass..that's it!! I will get the beast with all her power!! definitely...stay away from alcohol!!

Title: Re: A Super Strange Hit!!!
Post by chrisw on Mar 27^th, 2007, 6:46pm

im starting to wonder if i will ever be able to have a glass of wine again. It is just one more thing that ch has taken away from me. Boy do I miss it [smiley=huh.gif] but it is just not worth the risk. instant pain.

Title: Re: A Super Strange Hit!!!
Post by pieface_49 on Mar 27^th, 2007, 7:11pm

Maxpayne,
I do not have Trex or O2. All I have is Indomethocin. I took a whole bunch of information to my GP last Saturday and walked out of his office with Indomethocin. He stated it was the safest and most effective drug for my condition? There is no definitive prognosis from any of my Doctors. I got a second MRI on Monday and no phone call yet, so I am assuming negative like the first one. I had two bad hits early this morning. No alcohol, no chocolate. Screw it. I am having a friggin beer. Since the hits are occuring like clockwork and are now around 5am, I want to go to bed early and get some sleep. No one needs to tell me I am screwed up, I know I am.

I know without any doubt, I am playing russian rullette.

Title: Re: A Super Strange Hit!!!
Post by Linda_Howell on Mar 27^th, 2007, 7:34pm

http://bestsmileys.com/mouthzippedshut/4.gif

Title: Re: A Super Strange Hit!!!
Post by rbmb on Mar 27^th, 2007, 7:37pm

I really like my wine and I wish I could drink while in cycle but I can't....its just too painful. If I even drink a little I have a screaming headache in about 15 minutes.
So I just give it up and I miss it for about a month, then I don't even think about it until the cycle ends. It makes me think I could probably give up smoking too if I really tried. Of course it isn't too hard to give up something when you get an unbelievably painful headache every time you do it.
Rich

Title: Re: A Super Strange Hit!!!
Post by Guiseppi on Mar 27^th, 2007, 8:16pm

You sound frustrated and no one here blames you, we've all been there, and honestly, we do understand. The damned things hurt. Avoiding alcohol will most likely lessen the duration, the intensity and the frequency of your hits. I love my beer and my whiskey.....on cycle....I don't even think about it. Stick around and keep an open mind, lots of good people with good info here.

Guiseppi

Title: Re: A Super Strange Hit!!!
Post by Superpain on Mar 28^th, 2007, 8:52pm

It wasn't he alcohol. I had another one again just like it last night. And I haven't drank since Sat night. :(

I need major narcotics. Stadol may not kill a hit, but it makes you not care quite so much. And these hits are totally completely overwehelmingly out of control.

Title: Re: A Super Strange Hit!!!
Post by nani on Mar 28^th, 2007, 10:19pm

on 03/28/07 at 20:52:06, Superpain wrote:

I need major narcotics.

I've seen you say this more than once. I may have missed it, but why aren't you using Imitrex, or another triptan? Coupled with O2, which you appear to use, it can work quite well.

Title: Re: A Super Strange Hit!!!
Post by BarbaraD on Mar 29^th, 2007, 7:07am

Ok here goes:

Red Wine is known to trigger CH while white wine usually won't -- there's some logic to that but it evades me at this moment -- if you gotta drink wine --make it white.

Beer is a trigger for some (was for me for years - not now but I don't push it).

Other alcohol - for some INSTANT trigger - for others nothing. Go figure that one. If it's a trigger for YOU - don't do it silly! It ain't worth the pain (at least not to me!)

Narcs are USELESS for CH. Vasoconstrictors (Imitrex or Ergotomine (cafergot) ) are the drugs of CHOICE to KILL the pain. Narcs only make you goofy and DO NOT kill the pain. Trust about 1000 CHers on this site on this one.

O2, Red Bull, or Coffee will work lots of times to abort at the onset of CH (for a lot of us). You might try this.

Preventatives (Verap, Lithium, Topamax and others) work to help PREVENT CH.

For those of you who are NEW to CH - remember you are NOT 8 feet tall and bullet proof -- there are times you'll have to give up things you LIKE to do (such as drinking). If it TRIGGERS a CH - best advice any of us OLD TIMERS can give you is DON'T DO IT till your cycle is OVER! Unless you're really into pain - it's stupid to trigger a headache when it can be prevented.

I'd suggest you READ READ READ the left side of this board. There's a lot of years of knowledge there.

Hugs BD

Title: Re: A Super Strange Hit!!!
Post by Superpain on Mar 30^th, 2007, 2:30pm

I do use imitrex and O2. That's the point and why I say I want narcotics, because I've been getting hit lately with ha's that do not respond to either.
The imitrex actually makes it hurt more and O2 does nothing, and I'm in so much pain I can't even sit still enough to use the masx anyway.
I understand narcotics are not effective for the most part on clusters. Actually, I understand everything there is to understand about clusters, except that which no one understands. I'm fully versed on every medication, treatment and technique concerning preventatives, abortives or otherwise...
It's just these weird hits that are terribly severe and seemingly immune to what usually works. For those I now have stadol to at least knock me down so I don't hurt myself while flopping around screaming at the top of my lungs like the invisible man is murdering me.

But I didn't know about the white wine Barb. :D
Might have to give that a try. I found Odouls not to be so bad... :(

Title: Re: A Super Strange Hit!!!
Post by seasonalboomer on Mar 30^th, 2007, 3:17pm

I don't get it. At least when the dust has settled after I used Imitrex or O2 I can pick up and go about my day (or night). Why you would want to take a heavy narcotic, which you admit is largely ineffective, and then have to live with the Narc in your system for ohurs after the hit is long gone, is f-ed up cluster logic.

Sometimes none of the shit works - the O2, the Imitrex, nothing. That what rolling around is for.

Scott

Title: Re: A Super Strange Hit!!!
Post by ClusterChuck on Mar 30^th, 2007, 3:35pm

on 03/30/07 at 14:30:47, Superpain wrote:

I do use imitrex and O2. That's the point and why I say I want narcotics, because I've been getting hit lately with ha's that do not respond to either, and I'm in so much pain I can't even sit still enough to use the masx anyway.

Don't give up on oxygen ... I use it every time, yet the success rate fluctuates between 15 to 90 percent, depending on the week ... It might not work for this hit, but it just might work for the next one.

And many of us don't sit still while using the oxygen. Get up, pace, dance, bang your head, pull your hair, scream and yell ... I do all of the above while sucking oxygen ... No reason to say you can't use oxygen, just because you can't sit still.

on 03/30/07 at 14:30:47, Superpain wrote:

Actually, I understand everything there is to understand about clusters, except that which no one understands. I'm fully versed on every medication, treatment and technique concerning preventatives, abortives or otherwise...

That will NEVER happen!!! NONE of us understands everything about treatment etc. ...

on 03/30/07 at 14:30:47, Superpain wrote:

But I didn't know about the white wine Barb. :D
Might have to give that a try. I found Odouls not to be so bad... :(

You just contradicted your above quoted statement.

Don't give up, you can do it!

But I have to go along with the others. Stay away from narcotics.

Good luck, buddy!

Chuck

Title: Re: A Super Strange Hit!!!
Post by BarbaraD on Mar 30^th, 2007, 4:30pm

Have you tried the Ergotomines (Cafergot works for me - not EVERYTIME but about 90% - good odds).

DHE (another drug in the ergotomine family) is good to break cycles and usually offers relief when everything else fails. Not for the faint of heart.

But I still can't see narcs. My doc doped me up one time (to prove to me he could rid me of pain). I was so doped I was alsleep by the time I got home (2 blocks from his office) and had to be put to bed. Two hours later I was screaming in my drugged state and too drunk to walk, crawled to the bathroom to get my cafergot and couldn't get back in bed - laid on the floor banging my head until someone found me and called the doc to come see what he'd done. He promised NEVER to drug me again.

You need to talk this over with your doc and keep trying things till you hit on the right coctail for you.

Hugs BD

Title: Re: A Super Strange Hit!!!
Post by Superpain on Mar 30^th, 2007, 5:41pm

Don't worry, I'll never give up my O2. It's usually very effective. Let me stress I'm talking about isolated incidences here. Just a few out of the ordinary headaches I've had lately... For the rest I'm sticking to the normal treatment.
Chuck I don't mean to sound like I'm omipotent or something, I just mean I've learned pretty much everything that's used for treatment here on this site. I can name just about every drug or treatment there is. Have I tried them all? No...
Prednisone and verapamil are all I personally have done. Due to the predictability of my long ass cycles I'm not willing to get too tied up in alot of new prevents right now because I know that it will be ending probably within the next month. It always gets really bad just before it ends. Then I'll be pf for a couple years, then I'll be right back into it again for a couple years. Over and over again and again. Unless I go chronic one of these times then I'll be very active in finding a long term preventative that works for me.

Again, I understand everyone about the narcotics. I'm on your side. I agree. But I had a 6 hr headache about a week ago that just about killed me. If that happens again I want (and have) something to help me settle down and "not give a shit". I don't have any plans on using it for regular headaches or on a regular basis, only as a last resort in an extreme circumstance, which I have recently experienced.
Preferably I won't even have the occasion to need it.
Thanks!

Title: Re: A Super Strange Hit!!!
Post by pieface_49 on Mar 30^th, 2007, 7:41pm

I can empathize with Superpain. I had five 4-5 hour hits this cycle. One was close to six hours. Many of them, if not all were preceded or appended by alcohol. I simply did not know the alcohol was making things worse. I had suspected the first or second beer brought on the pain. Just did not know any better. If long duration episodes would ever happen again, I may want some pain medication if the abortives did not work. It seemed to me that one harmless Loricet Plus or something similar is the humane thing to do. I would do anything, absolutely anything to help during one of these bad episodes.

Superpain, hopefully you are at the peak of your cycle and these terrible headbangers will end. I got lucky and it seems to have left for a while. Did not have any pain worth speaking about this week. I feel for you because I know where you are coming from.

Title: Re: A Super Strange Hit!!!
Post by brian trudeau on Apr 2^nd, 2007, 4:02pm

I steer away from alcohol when in a cycle. I tried once and had family and some friends over to my wife and our house. Two beers later I was hit real hard. All that got even a glimpse wanted to take me to the ER saying I was stroking out. (I hid in the garage with my o2) My wife explained that they were those "headaches" I get and they just couldnt beleive what they had a glimpse of. When they would come out into the garage to grab a beer and see me thrashing in the corner on the O2 tank with my left eye swollen up and drooping down with tears streaming.
They thought I was having the "normal old headaches "and wondered about the 02 tanks in the garage. Saying Oxygen? What the hell? have you tried pain killers? I told them Ive tried everything nothing even touched them but the O2. Now they all know when I am in a cycle and understand a little better on what I go through nightly during my cycles.
Once cycle is over (and we know when its gone!) Im all good again to have whatever to drink. I say for sure it is not worth the quick onset and throwing off my cycle to have one.
-BT

Title: Re: A Super Strange Hit!!!
Post by midwestbeth on Apr 7^th, 2007, 9:17am

Quote:

[/Red Wine is known to trigger CH while white wine usually won't -- there's some logic to that but it evades me at this moment -- if you gotta drink wine --make it white.
quote]

My 1st ever ch was triggered by red wine. I will not risk touching the stuff ever again. I've had a couple glasses of white wine with no ill effects.

[quote][Narcs are USELESS for CH. Vasoconstrictors (Imitrex or Ergotomine (cafergot) ) are the drugs of CHOICE to KILL the pain. Narcs only make you goofy and DO NOT kill the pain. Trust about 1000 CHers on this site on this one.
[quote]

Before I found this site and knew what was happening to me, I tried the narcotics perscribed by the docs and they never once even touched the pain. Made me feel like I was immune to them.

[quote][O2, Red Bull, or Coffee will work lots of times to abort at the onset of CH (for a lot of us). You might try this.

/quote]

Always have this handy especially if you do not have 02 or trex with you.

[quote]For those of you who are NEW to CH - remember you are NOT 8 feet tall and bullet proof -- there are times you'll have to give up things you LIKE to do (such as drinking). If it TRIGGERS a CH - best advice any of us OLD TIMERS can give you is DON'T DO IT till your cycle is OVER! Unless you're really into pain - it's stupid to trigger a headache when it can be prevented.

I'd suggest you READ READ READ the left side of this board. There's a lot of years of knowledge there.

Very wise advise. Thank you ch.com and all the members that have been there done that and do not hesitate to share from experience.

Beth

Title: Re: A Super Strange Hit!!!
Post by Superpain on Apr 11^th, 2007, 9:35pm

I agree. Especially the white wine hint! ;)