Clusterheadaches.com Message Board


    
      
        Clusterheadaches.com Message Board
        (http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi)
      

        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Cluster Headache Specific >> CH and extreme stress
        
(Message started by: BB on Mar 20^th, 2007, 8:14pm)

Title: CH and extreme stress
Post by BB on Mar 20^th, 2007, 8:14pm

There have been mentions of CH starting a new cycle or even started for the first time in association with severe stress, be it physical or psychological.

In my husbands case, it definitely was true.

I am just wondering how many of you have the same experience ?

If this is the case, would one be able to learn and master detress techniques, relaxation techniques etc and would these help reducing the frequencies of CH ?

Thanks all for your information.

Painfree wishes to everyone.

Annette

Title: Re: CH and extreme stress
Post by chewy on Mar 20^th, 2007, 9:24pm

I think you'll find that most sufferers, this one included, are not triggered by stress.

The trigger is the disapation of stress.

Title: Re: CH and extreme stress
Post by georgej on Mar 20^th, 2007, 10:05pm

I can't speak for others, but in my particular case I've been unable to attribute the onset of a cycle to stress, or the lack of it.

After sixty or so cycles, six to eight weeks each, since 1966, the only common denominator I've seen has been the change of the seasons. Nothing I've done or haven't done has had any effect on them, good or bad.

They just are.

Best wishes,

George

Title: Re: CH and extreme stress
Post by ClusterChuck on Mar 20^th, 2007, 10:09pm

In my case, stress DID seem to start me off on the heavy hits that I have been on since. I am chronic, so I don't have normal cycles, just heavier periods than others, as all chronics do.

It was when my 30 year marriage fell apart. It was a shock to me. As I left the house to move into my own place, my two daughters told me that if Mom didn't want me, neither did they ... They told me not to call or bother them. I also had extreme stress at work that ended up with me not working for a year.

So, the woman I loved whole heartedly, threw me out, and divorced me, two of my children disowned me, and I was out of work, EXTREME stress!!!

That is when I started on the mega hits, in strength and quantity, and meds stopped working. I am still that way.

Since then, the problems with my wife and kids have all been resolved. Yes I am divorced, but my wife and I have a MARVELOUS relationship, as I also do with my two daughters. I also finally admitted to myself and the world that I am gay. Work, worked out. All stress has gone, but the hits are still the same.

So did the stress cause the new level and quantity of hits? I always thought so. But why, now that all that stress is gone, are they still like they were? Was it just coincidence that they happened at the same time? Who knows??!!??

Chuck

Title: Re: CH and extreme stress
Post by Gator on Mar 20^th, 2007, 10:22pm

I was hoping that, being a doctor and all, you might have access to the full document and be able to enlighten us as to the contents:

http://jnnp.bmj.com/cgi/content/extract/77/9/1097-a

As far as individual hits go, some people say that stress is a trigger and others, as chewy says, say that the relief from stress is a trigger. If Daniel is one of the former, then meditation and biofeedback and such might be another tool in his arsenal. For me, stress can keep the ch at bay, up to a point. Once I relax, though - BAM!

Title: Re: CH and extreme stress
Post by Gator on Mar 20^th, 2007, 10:28pm

on 03/20/07 at 22:09:07, ClusterChuck wrote:

So did the stress cause the new level and quantity of hits? I always thought so. But why, now that all that stress is gone, are they still like they were? Was it just coincidence that they happened at the same time? Who knows??!!??

I wonder if that much stress can permanently short circuit your wiring so that even when the stress is gone, the hits just keep coming?

Title: Re: CH and extreme stress
Post by Spoticus on Mar 20^th, 2007, 10:38pm

Personally I very rarely get stressed to start with. In the case of both my cycles I have definitely not been stressed, both started while I was on holidays. I figured maybe I am allergic to fun [smiley=laugh.gif]

Title: Re: CH and extreme stress
Post by ClusterChuck on Mar 20^th, 2007, 10:39pm

on 03/20/07 at 22:28:52, Gator wrote:

I wonder if that much stress can permanently short circuit your wiring so that even when the stress is gone, the hits just keep coming?

Hmmmm ... Interesting concept! That actually makes sense.

Probably all my wiring is fried ... That must be why I am such a dumb schmuck!!! LOL

But good point Gator!

Chuck

Title: Re: CH and extreme stress
Post by Redd on Mar 20^th, 2007, 10:39pm

on 03/20/07 at 22:28:52, Gator wrote:

I wonder if that much stress can permanently short circuit your wiring so that even when the stress is gone, the hits just keep coming?

Long term and or extreem or repeated stressors is known to play a role in other health conditions. For someone already afflicted or pre-disposed to this condition, it would make sense that high levels of stress could (not saying would but could) possibly trigger or worsen the condition?

Title: Re: CH and extreme stress
Post by Gator on Mar 20^th, 2007, 10:53pm

on 03/20/07 at 22:28:52, Gator wrote:

I wonder if that much stress can permanently short circuit your wiring so that even when the stress is gone, the hits just keep coming?

on 03/20/07 at 22:39:26, ClusterChuck wrote:

Hmmmm ... Interesting concept! That actually makes sense.

Probably all my wiring is fried ... That must be why I am such a dumb schmuck!!! LOL

But good point Gator!

Chuck

Don't you just love all these technical terms and medical jargon. LOL

Title: Re: CH and extreme stress
Post by MikeE on Mar 21^st, 2007, 12:11am

I agree with Chewy. When you relax from stress is what gets me. PFDAN Mike

Title: Re: CH and extreme stress
Post by Bob_Johnson on Mar 21^st, 2007, 10:20am

As you can from the date of this abstract, it's not a question which gets much attention.
---------
Psychosom Med. 1982 May;44(2):171-82. Related Articles, Links

Psychological functioning in headache sufferers.

Andrasik F, Blanchard EB, Arena JG, Teders SJ, Teevan RC, Rodichok LD.

The present study examined the psychological test responses of 99 headache sufferers and 30 matched nonheadache controls. Headache subjects were of four types: migraine (n = 26), muscle contraction (n = 39), combined migraine-muscle contract ion (n = 22), and cluster (n = 12). Measures consisted of the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory, a modified hostility scale derived from the MMPI, Back Depression Inventory, State-Trait Anxiety Inventory, Autonomic Perception Questionnaire, Rathus Assertiveness Schedule, Social Readjustment Rating Scale, Psychosomatic Symptom Checklist, Schalling-Sifneos Scale, Need for Achievement, and Hostile Press. Significant differences were found on five clinical scales of the MMPI--1, 2, 3, 6, and 7. Of the non-MMPI scales, only the Psychosomatic Symptom Checklist and Trait Anxiety Inventory were significant. Control subjects revealed no significant findings on any tests. The headache groups fell along a continuum, beginning with cluster subjects, who showed only minimal distress, continuing through migraine and combined migraine-muscle contraction, and ending with muscle contraction subjects, who revealed the greatest degree of psychological disturbance. However, none of the headache groups could be characterized by marked elevations on any of the psychological tests, which contrasts with past research findings. It is suggested that the present results may be more representative of the "typical" headache sufferer.

PMID: 7089156 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
============

Personally, I've had much better success using the cognitive techniques outlined here to reduce the subjective discomfort of CH -- both re. anticipating an attack and responding to one.

http://www.ouch-us.org/chgeneral/painvsuffering.htm

Title: Re: CH and extreme stress
Post by starlight on Mar 21^st, 2007, 12:16pm

Annette,

Stress has triggered cycles for me before, BUT I really believe there is a background vulnerability--like the stress is occurring in the month/season that I usually go into the episode (but sometimes NOW I have started skipping years). I get my episodes in the summer now, and if I am very stressed (usually emotionally) that can contribute. But who knows is it just a coincidence? I am not sure.
Within the actual cycle relaxation is the trigger. But the trigger for the episode itself for me is stress/seasonal.
Let's put it this way--my neuro predicted exactly when my previous cycle would be to the month, but in my view it felt like stress brought it on. And I was in no way stressed about cluster headaches coming on--I take the optimistic view maybe they will never come back.
I do think that we are born with this malady. But if it is a broken hypothalamus we have set to start going whacky at a certain time, high stress maybe ensures that it will go whacky at that given time?

Title: Re: CH and extreme stress
Post by Samiam on Mar 21^st, 2007, 12:18pm

Short and sweet since the long verison that I typed seemed to have gone missing.

I believe that the one thing that should be looked into is Adrenals and Cortisol. Cortisol is know to be the stress hormone and many without knowing lack what is needed. You don't need to be in full failure but enough that you could have adrenal fatigue which is what I have. I take cortef 5 mgs 4x's a day but have since weaned down to just 5 mgs in the AM which to tell you the truth I feel the best.

Many who are on this need to learn how to stress dose because the body has managed to burn out the adrenals and it could take up to 2 yrs to heal on meds if that can even be done. If you don't do this then the body doesn't have the stress horomone Cortisol that is needed to keep the body from going nuts.

Annette I'm sure if what is said and you are a doctor (not sure what type) maybe you could explain this a bit better for me.

This would play back to the pituarty thyroid hypothaums loop which we all know controls many things.

I would really like a spell check...LOL

Title: Re: CH and extreme stress
Post by Rosybabe on Mar 21^st, 2007, 12:45pm

the only time i had 2 cycles at year was when i was in college (all full 5 years of it) ...
yeah you can call that stress!
but before and after college only one cycle at year...no bad...

Title: Re: CH and extreme stress
Post by BrianJ on Mar 21^st, 2007, 2:25pm

Stress does not trigger my cycles now thay usually start when im on my xmas and summer breaks so it is actually when im destressing

BUT i do believe stress was the trigger to start my first cycle.
my first cycle started 3 weeks after loosing a job and i was having a really hard time dealing with not working and no being able to find a job my wife was 8 months pregnant so i do believe stress started it all but it does seem destressing starts my cycles now very strange

good topic this

Title: Re: CH and extreme stress
Post by rbmb on Mar 21^st, 2007, 2:40pm

I can't seem to make a connection between stress and my HAs and I've gone through some days where the stress level was enough that you'd think that if stress were a factor, I'd get a HA and I didn't. The HAs just seem to show up at their appointed time....more a factor of season and time of day than anything else.
Rich

Title: Re: CH and extreme stress
Post by thebbz on Mar 21^st, 2007, 3:17pm

I'm another one with Chewy. Stress pulls the hammer back getting you ready. It's when you relax after the stress damage has been caused that's when the trigger goes off.
I have not had stress trigger an episode,only aggrivate what was already there.
jb

Title: Re: CH and extreme stress
Post by Guiseppi on Mar 21^st, 2007, 4:43pm

While stress will not start a cycle for me, when on cycle, sustained stress will bring on an attack. But then I've always been just a little different!!!!!

Guiseppi

Title: Re: CH and extreme stress
Post by TonyG1 on Mar 21^st, 2007, 5:32pm

on 03/21/07 at 00:11:18, MikeE wrote:

I agree with Chewy. When you relax from stress is what gets me. PFDAN Mike

Ditto for me. NEVER, EVER relax ....http://bestsmileys.com/bouncing/5.gif

Title: Re: CH and extreme stress
Post by kk on Mar 21^st, 2007, 7:31pm

As long as I’m running at 100% I’m usually pain free. My HA’s come when I wind down and try to relax, usually between 7 and 10pm and again between 1 and 3am. Were they a result of any previous stress? Possibly, but looking back over the past two years, when I had my last cycle, I’m not under any more stress now than then. Actually, I can remember getting CH’s during the best times of my life. That’s what really sucks about these things, they can ruin a real good time.

Title: Re: CH and extreme stress
Post by BB on Mar 21^st, 2007, 9:22pm

Thanks everyone for your replies.

It is interesting to see how stress can affect people differently, for some its a trigger yet for others its not.

I start to wonder if there is a difference between

1- Extreme stress and prolonged stress

2- Relaxation post stress and post traumatic stress

3- Pre-existing personality traits that predispose a person to stress.

4- Distress vs stress, ie its important how a person reacts to stress, not the stressor itself.

The question then arises as to what is happening within the physical body to produce the different effects. To answer this I would need to look at the hormones released during times of stress/distress and relaxation.

In doing so, I have come up across very interesting articles about hormones and CH. One of them is this

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&list_uids=16539869&cmd=Retrieve&indexed=google

It sorts of explain why prednisone can work so well and why melatonin also works for many.

I find this topic extremely interesting and is worthy of its own thread so I will start another one.

Thanks all, please keep replying. :)

Annette

Title: Re: CH and extreme stress
Post by starlight on Mar 21^st, 2007, 9:43pm

Annette,

Interesting article. All good questions that you have raised.

Title: Re: CH and extreme stress
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Mar 21^st, 2007, 10:37pm

The relief of stress can be a trigger for me.

I am just about to wrap up a huge amount of work from a beginning-of-the-year-rush and I dont have any work to follow. By the end of the month I am going to be twiddling my thumbs. I am already feeling a cycle come on, possibly cause my stress level is dropping as i am finishing this work.

Course, it could be the time change and longer days, or it could be the season change. Either way, I'm screwed.

:-/

Title: Re: CH and extreme stress
Post by Barry_T_Coles on Mar 22^nd, 2007, 2:47am

I haven’t been stressed since I told the company 20 years ago they could shove their job wherever it fitted best and then they promoted me.

What I have found is that the more active I am mentally & physically the better off I am CH wise, put the mind & body into neutral & I suffer.
Maybe I’m just using up the brain waves that would normally go into giving me a hard time on the Cluster scene.
Cheers
Barry

Title: Re: CH and extreme stress
Post by sailpappy on Mar 22^nd, 2007, 8:34am

;;D Like Chewy, I find the corralation between the disapation of stress and triggering a hit more profound than stress itself. also depression seems to help limit the number of hits, the happier I am the more attacks I get! ::) Pappy

Title: Re: CH and extreme stress
Post by burnt-toast on Mar 22^nd, 2007, 8:54am

Under even the most extreme stress or periods of heavy work I remain CH free. As long as I'm active, alert and focused on something CH is not a problem.

As some have already mentioned - relaxation appears to trigger attacks. Relaxation after periods of extreme stress or heavy work can trigger some of the most severe attacks.

In general to sit back on the couch and watch TV in the evening is a guaranteed hit. I have to be cautious when attending meetings - if things get boring I need to move around a bit to avoid embarrissing hits.

As I've repeatedly told my wife and my Neuro. - "If I could just find a way to keep going full tilt - 24X7, there wouldn't be a problem."

Tom

Title: Re: CH and extreme stress
Post by BB on Mar 22^nd, 2007, 10:22pm

Sympathetic nervous system vs parasympathetic nervous system in response to stress

It was gradually realized that such concepts as anxiety, antagonism, exhaustion, frustration, distress, despair, overwork, pre-menstrual tension, over-focusing, confusion, mourning, and fear could all come together in a general broadening of the meaning of the term stress. The popular use of the term in modern folklore expanded rapidly and created an industry of popular psychology, self-help, psychotherapy, and sometimes quackery.

The use of the term stress in serious and recognized cases, such as those of post-traumatic stress disorder and psychosomatic illness, has scarcely helped clear analysis of the generalized "stress" phenomenon. Nonetheless, some varieties of stress from negative life events (distress) and from positive life events, (eustress) can clearly have a serious physical impact distinct from the troubles of what psychotherapists call the "worried well". Stress activates the sympathetic branch of the autonomous nervous system and the release of stress hormones including adrenaline/epinephrine, and cortisol.

Sympathetic nervous output tends to divert bloodflow to the large muscles—the body 'thinks' it has to run away from something or fight something: the so-called 'fight or flight' response of ancient evolutionary heritage—and blood flows correspondingly less to the digestive system and other organs that are not immediately needed for a response to the stimulus. We all recognise the effects: dry mouth, motor agitation, sweating, pallor, enlarged pupils, and insomnia.

Our modern lifestyle tends to cause continual sympathetic nervous system activation with very little opportunity for the parasympathetic (also called 'vegetative') nervous system to activate. When the parasympathetic system is active, the bowel and other non-muscle organs receive good blood-flow, the pupils constrict, and the glands all function well and secrete their various compounds. Absence of the autonomic parasympathetic activation leads to poor digestion and probably also to poor healing and organ function. It is vital to take time out from our modern lifestyles to allow for rest and proper parasympathetic action in our bodies.

Title: Re: CH and extreme stress
Post by BB on Mar 22^nd, 2007, 10:40pm

Function
Sympathetic and parasympathetic divisions typically function in opposition to each other. But this opposition is better termed complementary in nature rather than antagonistic. For an analogy, one may think of the sympathetic division as the accelerator and the parasympathetic division as the brake. The sympathetic division typically functions in actions requiring quick responses. The parasympathetic division functions with actions that do not require immediate reaction. Consider sympathetic as "fight or flight" and parasympathetic as "rest and digest".

However, many instances of sympathetic and parasympathetic activity cannot be ascribed to "fight" or "rest" situations. For example, standing up from a reclining or sitting position would entail an unsustainable drop in blood pressure if not for a compensatory increase in the arterial sympathetic tonus. Another example is the constant, second to second modulation of heart rate by sympathetic and parasympathetic influences, as a function of the respiratory cycles. More generally, these two systems should be seen as permanently modulating vital functions, in usually antagonistic fashion, to achieve homeostasis. Some typical actions of the sympathetic and parasympathetic systems are listed below:

Sympathetic nervous system
Diverts blood flow away from the gastro-intestinal (GI) tract and skin via vasoconstriction.
Blood flow to skeletal muscles, the lung is not only maintained, but enhanced (by as much as 1200%, in the case of skeletal muscles).
Dilates bronchioles of the lung, which allows for greater alveolar oxygen exchange.
Increases heart rate and the contractility of cardiac cells (myocytes), thereby providing a mechanism for the enhanced blood flow to skeletal muscles.
Dilates pupils and relaxes the lens, allowing more light to enter the eye.

Parasympathetic nervous system
Dilates blood vessels leading to the GI tract, increasing blood flow. This is important following the consumption of food, due to the greater metabolic demands placed on the body by the gut.
The parasympathetic nervous system can also constrict the bronchiolar diameter when the need for oxygen has diminished.
During accommodation, the parasympathetic nervous system causes constriction of the pupil and lens.
The parasympathetic nervous system stimulates salivary gland secretion, and accelerates peristalsis, so, in keeping with the rest and digest functions, appropriate PNS activity mediates digestion of food and indirectly, the absorption of nutrients.
Is also involved in erection of genitals, via the pelvic splanchnic nerves 2-4.

Tha sympathetic nervous system is activated during stress and causes the fight and flight response, while the parasympathetic nervous system is activated while the body is relaxing and winding down.

This may explain why CH is triggered in some people when they relax after a stressful period. Maybe the key is to rewind and relax VERY slowly so that the body's neurotransmittors dont change too quickly? Or to learn relaxation so that one wont get too anxious during stressful time so that not to put the sympathetic nervous system into overdrive?

Just thinking outloud here folks, dont jump on my back just yet! 8)

Annette

Title: Re: CH and extreme stress
Post by Giovanni on Mar 26^th, 2007, 6:20pm

Same experience here with me.

Severe stress has started some of my cycles as well as made them worse. The first cluster headache I ever had was after one year of pure hell in a stressful situation.

John

Title: Re: CH and extreme stress
Post by AussieBrian on Mar 26^th, 2007, 11:41pm

In times past, CH was known variously as Executive headaches and Holiday headaches given that the onset of a new cycle co-incided so accurately with the sudden dissipation of high stress.

Title: Re: CH and extreme stress
Post by tommy123 on Apr 1^st, 2007, 9:44pm

With me,, it is definately stress which will set off an attack.. I can feel it building in the back of my head,,(shadows?) and about 5 minutes into this.. the dance begins.. I have checked just about everything I can think of in the form of triggers, i.e. chocolate , definately,, but not the caffeine in it.. something else,, and the process continues.. its hell having a body,, such a maintenance hassle.. I never wanted one.. pure enegy would have been fine with me... tommy

Title: Re: CH and extreme stress
Post by ndshrubs on Apr 1^st, 2007, 10:55pm

I find it interesting to note that a lot of the "causes" of cluster headaches suggest that it may be an abnormality in the hypothalamus. As in the following:

"Among the most widely accepted theories is that cluster headaches are due to an abnormality in the hypothalamus. This can explain why cluster headaches frequently strike around the same time each day, and during a particular season, as one of the functions the hypothalamus performs is regulation of the biological clock."

Interestingly, in stress situations, the hypothalamus is responsible for a number of functions, including, hormone secretion, temperature regulation, emotional responses. Possibly having some root in the agitation felt by a sufferer or the partial relief felt with either heat or cold.

Under normal circumstances, the hypothalamus also is involved in hunger, sex, reproduction, and general physiological and emotional regulation. (see http://www.neuroanatomy.wisc.edu/coursebook/neuro2(2).pdf)

I'd be interested if anyone has responded differently (and noticeably) to "long-term, chronic stress" and "short-term" stress. Furthermore, there are other types of stress such as physical (endurance etc) or mental/emotional which could result in different responses.

As for me, I tend to get headaches in particularly stressful mental/work-related situations, whereas the physical/emotional issues don't impact me. I've never had a death in the family or anything particularly traumatic during the middle of a cycle, however.

Interesting topic!

-S

Title: Re: CH and extreme stress
Post by blmiller84 on Apr 2^nd, 2007, 3:28pm

Relating to stress... my headaches seem to occur more painfully during a cycle whenever I get bored. I used to think that I was just allergic to being bored :D I can be in a high stress or low stress situation, but whenever my mind clicks into boredom, the pain comes on stronger. Maybe I'm somehow blocking the pain until then?

Of course, that isn't always. I do get them other times, but it seems to coincide with boredom a bit. And during a cycle I pretty much always have level 2 headache lingering a few hours after waking. I never know how the day will go until I'm awake for 3 hours... bleh.

So.. I guess I'm trying to say mine don't have a direct relation to stress level, just mental activity. As observed by me ;)

~Barb

Title: Re: CH and extreme stress
Post by pieface_49 on Apr 2^nd, 2007, 7:16pm

I wish I knew what brought on a cycle. I have no idea, the doctors and specialists have no idea. I can say it is like clockwork and possibly related to an abnormal hypothalamus. This cycles hits started around 6pm. When the cycle ended it was almost exactly 12 hours later at 6am. The hits kept moving incrementally, almost to the hour as the cycle moved forward. Medical science is getting closer to understanding. I thank those who are working so hard to make this possible.

Title: Re: CH and extreme stress
Post by Kirk on Apr 3^rd, 2007, 12:56am

Like many others an attack seems to get me most often when decompressing, or relaxed.

[smiley=smokin.gif]

Title: Re: CH and extreme stress
Post by tommy123 on Apr 3^rd, 2007, 3:22pm

In my case,,extreme stress..sets it off,, a visit to the hospital for minor surgery, or a visit to the dentist, to have old fillings removed, and replaced.. not the best situation.. brings it on.. but just found out from mhy brother, who told me he had really bad headaches for about 10 years , not during stress,,but when he tried to relax on the weekend.. he is retired now, but has been diagnosed with lupus.. couldnt say if ch was in effect or not during those ten years..