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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Cluster Headache Specific >> painkillers . . . just wondering
        
(Message started by: eyepopper on Feb 1^st, 2007, 3:56pm)

Title: painkillers . . . just wondering
Post by eyepopper on Feb 1^st, 2007, 3:56pm

This has been one of the worst weeks I've had in a long time.

I have a brief question. Back in the day before I knew what the beast was (I was told sinus headaches) I took a Percoset that I had in my cabinet from dental surgery, thinking it would kill the pain.

Surprise! It didn't! I still had just as much pain (if not more), but I could barely deal with it because I was so groggy from the Perc.

My question is, does anyone know why painkillers don't work on these suckers?

If I get another visit from the beast, I may not be checking in for a day or so.

Thanks for your help.

Deb

Title: Re: painkillers . . . just wondering
Post by Guiseppi on Feb 1^st, 2007, 4:06pm

With the exception of the injectables, the pain killers take too long to get absorbed into your system. You're at a kip 8 or 9 before your body is metabolizing any of the meds.

That's why the Oxygen is so highly thought of around here. It's in your system in seconds, for me at least it'll stop the beast in its tracks in 3 to 8 minutes. I hope you have access to something, be it oxygen or imitrrex. The thought of facing theze things naked scares the hell outta me.

Guiseppi

Title: Re: painkillers . . . just wondering
Post by Sean_C on Feb 1^st, 2007, 8:59pm

on 02/01/07 at 16:06:34, Guiseppi wrote:

With the exception of the injectables, the pain killers take too long to get absorbed into your system.

Doesn't matter, they don't work on CH.

Do you have a nuerologist Deb?

Sean.......................................

Title: Re: painkillers . . . just wondering
Post by thebbz on Feb 1^st, 2007, 9:30pm

;)
I will quote Lelimey...from a past thread on the same subject..
Dont bother
CH headaches are vascular. Aborts work by constricting blood vessels effected. Painkillers do not constrict the blood vessels and do not work on the CH..they may help in other ways for other reasons though. You would be better off with a strong cup of coffee.
I hope that's close Helen. Hope you dont mind.
all the best there :oeyepopper :o
jb....spelling?..and I botched the accent. ;;D

Title: Re: painkillers . . . just wondering
Post by Linda_Howell on Feb 1^st, 2007, 9:50pm

Never nmind the accent there John. Your advice was great.
Painkillers work....for after dental or other surgery where the pain is constant for a few days. You need them for this. For CH it's a big no- no for the reasons stated above as well as this:

If your're chronic you'd have to take them in such massive dosages you'd be a physical and mental wreck.

If you're episodic for even 4 months of the year, it would become addicting in that long.... not to mention the rebounds from the Darvocet, Codeine, Lorcet, etc. would prolong your cycle.

I haven't stood on my Narcotics soap-box for some time now, since others here have done it for me.

Damn that felt good. ;;D

Title: Re: painkillers . . . just wondering
Post by BB on Feb 2^nd, 2007, 1:52am

The main mechanism for the pain here is nerve pain ( from the trigeminal nerve ) and internal nerve pathways via neurotransmitters, thats why normal pain killers even narcotics dont do much.

Its like trying to put out a massive chemical fire with normal water, it wont work. You need to use special chemical foams to put out chemical fires. If using water alone, you will need a massive amount and even then things will still have been burnt to the ground anyway.

If you use too much narcotics then you will "float" above the pain ie the pain is still there you just get too zonked out to be fully aware of whats going on but such high dose is dangerous and very highly addictive.

BB

Title: Re: painkillers . . . just wondering
Post by Sean_C on Feb 2^nd, 2007, 9:33am

on 02/02/07 at 01:52:11, BB wrote:

If you use too much narcotics then you will "float" above the pain ie the pain is still there you just get too zonked out to be fully aware of whats going on but such high dose is dangerous and very highly addictive.

Using "to much" narcotics or narcotics in any dosage will not make the pain withdraw in my case BB. I've been down all those roads, and all have lead to a dead end, only to create other issues, both physical and personal.

Anyone considering using pain killers to escape CH will not find relief, only pain and addiction.

There are alternative medications with non addictive properties, my suggestion would be to consider those before the opiates.

Cheers

Sean...............................

Title: Re: painkillers . . . just wondering
Post by Charlotte on Feb 2^nd, 2007, 10:08am

I am still working on educating my doc & neuro, both of whom I met this past year.

My previous doc got stuck on migraine & refused to help me, or listen, with the end of cycle high cycle, and physically turned his back on me. Peole here said "Get a new doc" and I did.

The new doc & neuro have never done that, and that is worth a lot to me. The neuro hasn't given me a diagnosis but that is preferable to a wrong diagnosis, and both fellows are working with me and I now have a good combo of meds, for me. My standards for relief are low, and my pain tolerance is high, and everyone I know is supportive, or at least tolerant. I feel very fortunate in that.

The ridiculous and typical, however, is when we ticked off the meds in December and how they worked or didn't work and got to the end of the list, I pointed to my temple and said, what about the pain here that nothing touches?, and the neuro prescribed vicodin. I think I used 3 of the vicodin in 2 months. Because of frequency of hits, I cut things in half or 4ths - except verapamil which I use according to the escalation chart.

LOL - One gauge I use as to how I'm doing is my cat. She hides and stays away when I get hard hits, and lately she has been right by me. So, I'm doing good!

Charlotte

Title: Re: painkillers . . . just wondering
Post by kcopelin on Feb 2^nd, 2007, 1:09pm

[smiley=laugh.gif]So Charlotte, you're getting regular CAT scans huh? [smiley=laugh.gif]

(i crack me up)

pfdan y'all
kathy

Title: Re: painkillers . . . just wondering
Post by LeLimey on Feb 2^nd, 2007, 2:05pm

on 02/01/07 at 21:30:40, thebbz wrote:

You did good JB although I have to say you sounded more like a Noo Yawker ;)

Title: Re: painkillers . . . just wondering
Post by Sean_C on Feb 2^nd, 2007, 2:08pm

on 02/02/07 at 14:05:04, LeLimey wrote:

You did good JB although I have to say you sounded more like a Noo Yawka ;)

I fixed it for ya Helen ;;D

Title: Re: painkillers . . . just wondering
Post by tanner on Feb 5^th, 2007, 11:44am

on 02/02/07 at 13:09:08, kcopelin wrote:

[smiley=laugh.gif]So Charlotte, you're getting regular CAT scans huh? [smiley=laugh.gif]

(i crack me up)

pfdan y'all
kathy

Kathy, you crack me up too ;;D ;;D ;;D

Not many posts from you of late [smiley=huh.gif] I hope you are OK ...Big Hug....Tim

Title: Re: painkillers . . . just wondering
Post by drivin_blind on Feb 5^th, 2007, 4:40pm

Friend of mine (My Dr.) told me a long time ago. Pain killers work well for surgical pain, but not very well or not at all for nerve pain. These aren't hard fast rules but basically that's the bottom line. Dick

Title: Re: painkillers . . . just wondering
Post by gcormier04401 on Feb 7^th, 2007, 8:47am

Narcotics and other non-narcotic pain killers NEVER worked for me. Before I was diagnosed (March 2004) I spent 20 years episodic (3 years free then typically 6 weeks in hell). Every time I would go to the ER only to be prescribed narcotics (which I never liked anyway). The last trip to the ED before being diagnosed I literally begged for anything non-narcotic from the ED doctor. After an hour of trying to figure out why my eye was swelled shut and I was in pure agony he said, "You might have a cluster headache, I'd give you an Imetrix injection but your blood pressure is too high."

My blood pressure was freakin' high because I was at a kip 9-10!

He prescribed narcotics and sent me home.

I finally was diagnosed a week later by a neurologist... almost wept to finally know I wasnt crazy. The pacing and banging my head had me conviced I was...

Title: Re: painkillers . . . just wondering
Post by mynm156 on Feb 19^th, 2007, 3:19am

on 02/01/07 at 20:59:44, Sean_C wrote:

Doesn't matter, they don't work on CH.

Sean.......................................

Never ever Sean? HHHmmmmmmmm

Title: Re: painkillers . . . just wondering
Post by Sean_C on Feb 19^th, 2007, 10:35pm

on 02/19/07 at 03:19:08, mynm156 wrote:

Never ever Sean? HHHmmmmmmmm

Opiates never ever worked for me Mynm, morphine was just as useless.

How about you? You find relief with opiates or morphine?

HHHmmmmmmming back at ya brother.

Sean...........................

Title: Re: painkillers . . . just wondering
Post by Callico_Kid on Feb 19^th, 2007, 11:02pm

"Opiates never ever worked for me Mynm, morphine was just as useless.

How about you? You find relief with opiates or morphine?

HHHmmmmmmming back at ya brother.

Sean........................... "

Morphine and Demerol both made me feel really good except for the pain in my head! ;;D

Right now, nothing is working for me. :'('

jc

Title: Re: painkillers . . . just wondering
Post by LeLimey on Feb 20^th, 2007, 3:41am

on 02/19/07 at 23:02:28, Callico_Kid wrote:

Right now, nothing is working for me. :'('

jc

Right now you KNOW I'm not going to let you leave it like that don't you honeybun?

What have you tried? how many hits per day, duration and time of day?

You know the routine, sometimes something really obvious is sitting right under our noses. I had that happen to me a while back. Paul 98 asked me if I'd ever tried melatonin on Jasper, I mentioned it to PG who prescribed it for him and Jasper is now reduced to approx one hit every 6-7 days from every night! I KNOW melatonin but I couldn't see the wood for the trees and it took someone else to point it out.

We're not leaving one of ours out in the cold matey, I for one will not stop until we have something that is going to help you (((HUG)))

Title: Re: painkillers . . . just wondering
Post by Sean_C on Feb 22^nd, 2007, 12:24am

on 02/19/07 at 23:02:28, Callico_Kid wrote:

"Right now, nothing is working for me. :'('

Hang tough bud, I know your pain and it sucks but it can be done.

BTW just because something isn't work in the past doesn't mean it won't work now. The beast is a funny thing, sometimes one thing will beat him down, next time it won't, but will again later. :-/

Keep the faith bro,

Sean...........................................

Title: Re: painkillers . . . just wondering
Post by hdbngr on Feb 24^th, 2007, 5:49am

I'm right there with you. It's cluster season and the worst cycle is Jan-March for me. In regard to your question....it is true that most pain killers do not work on CH. They hurt just too bad for the average painkiller to address.

That being said, there are a couple that have helped folks here. If you are a chronic, ask about the Duragesic patch. It is a narcotic and it is up to you as to whether or not to set off alarm bells with your Doc. You do not want to be labeled a drugseeker. Secondly, a new one is Actiq. Like a lollipop, absorbs in five minutes through lining of the mouth, but again, be cautious. They can be addictive if used incorrectly.