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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Cluster Headache Specific >> Re: This pill just may help CH pain
        
(Message started by: LeLimey on Jan 22^nd, 2007, 10:03am)

Title: Re: This pill just may help CH pain
Post by LeLimey on Jan 22^nd, 2007, 10:03am

Paracetamol is an OTC drug here in the UK and considered a pretty mild painkiller. Its generic name is acetaminophen in the US. It is commonly used for reducing fever as much as use as a pain killer. It'salso one of the few pain relief meds that you're allowed to take when pregnant.

The recommended adult dose of paracetamol is a maximum of two 500 mg tablets, with four hours between doses, and no more than eight tablets in 24 hours.

I'm surprised it works for you for CH given that normal painkillers aren't usually effective against the way in which CH acts but I'm glad you have found something that works for you.

Regards
Helen

Title: Re: This pill just may help CH pain
Post by brewcrew on Jan 22^nd, 2007, 10:11am

If two Tylenols did the trick, it ain't CH from which you suffer.

Title: Re: This pill just may help CH pain
Post by LeLimey on Jan 22^nd, 2007, 10:16am

You're welcome, I can assure you if you had paracetamol and not a branded drug such as paramax or panadol which do have other stuff in them then it would have been pure paracetamol and nothing else.
Just out of curiosity, do you take them at the first twinge or when there is some definite pain going on? How long does it take for them to work for you too and does it continue to ramp up while they're kicking in?
I hope you don't mind me asking so many questions!
Helen

PS I just re read your post.. are you taking them as a preventative measure rather than an abortive?

Title: Re: This pill just may help CH pain
Post by LeLimey on Jan 22^nd, 2007, 10:40am

Well I have to admit that I truly can't see how it can help with CH given that the abortive drugs we usually use work in a completely different way to normal painkillers as what "kills" clusterattacks are vaso constrictors.

I have just googled it and found this site

http://www.pharmweb.net/pwmirror/pwy/paracetamol/pharmwebpic.html

and whilst I haven't had time to look and see if I can see why it might work yet I will do later this evening.

Title: Re: This pill just may help CH pain
Post by seasonalboomer on Jan 22^nd, 2007, 10:41am

I sent away for my certification and all they sent me was a decoder ring....

As for your experience in having success I'm glad it worked for you this time.

Over the past 15-20 years most of us, prior to fully understanding that which we were up against have had similar experiences. Sometimes some cycles are mini-cycles or never fully land. I just had one where I had only three hits in two weeks. For most they wouldn't even call that "Cluster Headache". But, I know the difference.

I've had other cycles that were very brutal and seemd they would never end. There's no reason to doubt that you had a very minimal cluster cycle that you may attribute to the pills you were taking -- and it could have been it was minor enough that they actually did help you.

But, for many of us, including Brewcrew, we know that acetaminophen is not a realistic answer for us. Mostly because we've tried it and it doesn't do squat for us. Your truth is your truth, our experience is als0 our experience.

So, don't take offense please.

Scott

Title: Re: This pill just may help CH pain
Post by vietvet2tours on Jan 22^nd, 2007, 10:44am

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y100/AlexisBrooke/BullshitMeter.gif

Title: Re: This pill just may help CH pain
Post by brewcrew on Jan 22^nd, 2007, 11:09am

on 01/22/07 at 10:30:20, cummuter wrote:

It's a lot more constructive than BrewCrew accusing a certified and seasoned 30+ year CH sufferer of relieving pain with 2 Tylenol.

Look, I have a tendency to cut to the chase. If your pain was relieved with these two pills, either you weren't suffering from CH at the time or there was something other than 1,000 mg of acetaminophen in them.

It shouldn't take a 30+ year CH sufferer to determine that. Hell, I've only been suffering for 19 years (certified, that is).

Title: Re: This pill just may help CH pain
Post by vietvet2tours on Jan 22^nd, 2007, 11:32am

Just one more three posts and out.

Title: Re: This pill just may help CH pain
Post by roy21302 on Jan 22^nd, 2007, 12:14pm

Two paracetamol for CH is like using a cold pack for a compound facture of the leg, less than useless---- and also taking too many of them over an extended period of time can result in severe liver damage, if taken with Alcohol you could cause liver failure and give yourself a long slow death. You'd of been better off asking for use of the Plane O2 supply. [smiley=twocents.gif]
Cheers Roy :o

Title: Re: This pill just may help CH pain
Post by LeeS on Jan 22^nd, 2007, 12:58pm

Glad you got relief/missed your cycle - whatever.

I used to eat paracetamol by the bucket-full (when the ibuprofen ran out) and it took me a while to realise they were doing much more harm than good.

Maybe the Thai brand has interesting and efficacious additional ingredients - I have heard they make a wicked omelette over there {joke btw}

All the best with your PF status.

-Lee

Title: Re: This pill just may help CH pain
Post by JeffB on Jan 22^nd, 2007, 1:23pm

on 01/22/07 at 10:44:19, vietvet2tours wrote:

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y100/AlexisBrooke/BullshitMeter.gif

;;D
I think this said it all

Title: Re: This pill just may help CH pain
Post by BarbaraD on Jan 22^nd, 2007, 8:17pm

Ya know guys, before you jump to conclusions --

I take 3 Extra Strength Excedrin (sometimes) at the first sign of a hit and most of the time it will stop it. They're loaded with caffeine, but will cause rebounds if taken too often. But in a pinch, I'll take about anything.

cummuter - if it helps, I'll all for it. Glad you found something for relief.

Hugs BD

Title: Re: This pill just may help CH pain
Post by BB on Jan 22^nd, 2007, 9:09pm

CH wouldnt be called suicide headache, the most painful condition known to man, wouldnt hurt more than natural childbirth nor be compared to having a limb amputated without anaesthetic if 2 paracetamols can stop or prevent an attack, let alone prevent a whole cycle.

Get real!

Please do not undermine the incredible pain a CHer goes through by saying things like this. Two paracetamols wouldnt touch my normal migraine, let alone a cluster headache.

A CH attack is precipitated by abnormal levels of neurotransmitters in the brain such as serotonin and noradrenaline,etc in the brain, which lead to a cascade of neurovascular events where massive vasodilatation and severe nerve irritation/compression occur. There is nothing in 2 paracetamols that will be able to prevent/stop this.

Imagine giving 2 paracetamols to a woman giving birth or to someone whose limb is being ripped off for pain !

I dont lose my temper/patience often but this one takes the cake. >:(

Annette

Title: Re: This pill just may help CH pain
Post by thomas on Jan 23^rd, 2007, 6:25pm

on 01/22/07 at 20:17:20, BarbaraD wrote:

We go through a lot of excedrin migraine in my house too. It doesn't always work, and wont abort a full blown hit, but it can help if taken early enough and it works pretty good on shadows.

Title: Re: This pill just may help CH pain
Post by Pellsey on Jan 24^th, 2007, 3:20am

I've been known to drop 4 x neurofen extra strength (ibuprofen) and 5 x Mersyndol full strengeth (paracetamol 450mg, Codeine Phosphate 9.75mg and Doxylamine Succinate 5mg) all at once to try and prevent an attack at first sign and all it does is make me run out of puff quicker when it peaks, very rarely does it abort an attack so i'm with the majority on this one. Two paracetamol is either super lucky, full of shit or a really mild episode; or possibly a different condition.

Title: yeahRe: This pill just may help CH pain
Post by ozzyrocks36 on Jan 24^th, 2007, 10:51am

..Sounds like someone is on the wrong site..you're not haveing ch's I promise..you should thank GOD for that....If you were really haveing a ch then you would never have let acetaminefin cross your mind

Title: Re: This pill just may help CH pain
Post by floridian on Jan 24^th, 2007, 1:18pm

My first few cycles were stopped cold in their tracks by antibiotics. Do I think antibiotics will help everyone? No. But if an active sinus infection is inflamming the trigeminal nerve, they might have a good effect.

Other types of inflammation in the body might also be limited by something as simple as acetominophen, and that could limit CH activity. Not the cure for every one, and that med is up there with alcohol as a leading cause of liver failure. Might work one or two years, then no more (if other meds are any indication).

I'm guessing that if there are people are out there that really do have clusters, and if they really do respond to acetominophen, they don't get diagnosed very often. They simply treat themselves and if they go to the doctor, the doc writes it off to some other cause. It takes the average patient a few years and a few doctors to get a diagnosis of CH. If something simple works for a person, that could short-circuit the normal diagnosis/treatment process. Then we conclude that acetominophen is of no use.

Title: Re: This pill just may help CH pain
Post by gonz2112 on Jan 24^th, 2007, 2:09pm

A few years ago if someone told me, "Yeah, I get cluster headaches too and you know what gets rid of them for me? Red Bull! That's right, I slam 8oz. of Red Bull and it knocks it out in 5 minutes."

My response would have been,
"HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!
You don't get cluster headaches. Demerol won't knock these things out let alone an energy drink."

Now that I think about it, I've gone through a bunch of RB and Monster and I have not had one abort a HA by itself. Since I know I have clusters, does this mean that everyone who claims to abort their clusters with a Red Bull really doesn't have clusters?

Perhaps it is me who doesn't have CH.
Now I am really confused!

Title: Re: This pill just may help CH pain
Post by Pellsey on Jan 24^th, 2007, 4:53pm

I tried the Red Bull last night for the first time, two 320ml bottles straight after each other. The HA had worked its way to a number 7 by the time I get them into me but it seemed as though that is where it stoppped. The drinks didn't seem to abort the HA but i really think that they stopped it from ramping up to a 10. Last night was the first night in a week i haven't had a 10.

Was it the Red Bull or just pure luck. I'll let you know after tonights episode??????

Title: Re: This pill just may help CH pain
Post by BB on Jan 24^th, 2007, 6:08pm

When assessing the efficacy of a medication for a particular condition one needs to fully understand what chemicals are present in that medication that can act in favour of the condition.

If an episode of CH is caused by sinus infection then antibiotics will work , but only at that time. If another episode of CH is triggered by sleep apnoea then CPAP machine will help, but wont help the next person ....

Energy drinks that contain caffeine and taurine can help block CH as caffeine causes vasoconstriction and taurine has various neutopeptic activities such as lowering blood pressure, all these activities can help stop CH attack.

However, paracetamol is a mild and simple antipyretic and analgesic medication. It simply doesnt have anything that can in any way prevent or abort a CH attack, much less stopping a whole cycle.

Just my 2 cents.

Annette

Title: Re: This pill just may help CH pain
Post by chewy on Jan 24^th, 2007, 9:25pm

Quote:

That about says it all

Title: Re: This pill just may help CH pain
Post by BikerBob on Jan 24^th, 2007, 11:21pm

Quote:

CH wouldnt be called suicide headache, the most painful condition
known to man, wouldnt hurt more than natural childbirth nor be
compared to having a limb amputated without anaesthetic

Who compared CH to "having a limb amputated without anaesthetic"?

Quote:

Pain is difficult to quantify, and people's own subjective ratings are
hard to compare with those of other people--as anyone who's listened
to someone sitting comfortably on a bed describing their pain as
"fifteen out of ten" can attest!

Women with cluster headache who have given birth without anaesthetic
generally agree that the pain from cluster attacks is worse. Men with
cluster headache who have had kidney stones--generally considered to
be the worst pain that a man can experience-- also generally agree that
cluster attacks are worse. This is why cluster headache qualifies as
the most painful of the pain syndromes.

Traumatic limb amputations are generally much less painful than you
might expect.

Andrew Sewell MD

Title: Re: This pill just may help CH pain
Post by MJ on Jan 25^th, 2007, 12:59am

on 01/24/07 at 18:08:10, BB wrote:

When assessing the efficacy of a medication for a particular condition one needs to fully understand what chemicals are present in that medication that can act in favour of the condition.

Annette

I'm going to twist that statement a bit and say that first we have to understand the condition before we can determine the efficacy of a medication.

As yet the condition, CH, is not yet fully understood so therefore how can we determine what meds work for others.
Only by individual trial and error.

The medications most use for CH do nothing for me. Maybe I should lump them all with tylenol too. Oxygen for instance the most used med here is the worst possible for me. It increases the intensity.

Title: Re: This pill just may help CH pain
Post by BB on Jan 25^th, 2007, 1:47am

Thats interesting MJ

Wonder by what mechanism would oxygen increase the intensity of a CH hit ?

So do shrooms or seeds work best for you?

Annette

Title: Re: This pill just may help CH pain
Post by LeLimey on Jan 25^th, 2007, 5:32am

Actually on the occasions that O2 HASN'T worked for me I have to say that with the hit ramping up as I was huffing O2 for all I was worth it DID feel like O2 was making it worse.
We do need to remember that while many of us, especially me, consider O2 to be our wonder "drug" - it doesn't work for all of us.
Helen

Title: Re: This pill just may help CH pain
Post by vietvet2tours on Jan 25^th, 2007, 11:49am

on 01/24/07 at 23:21:29, BikerBob wrote:

Who compared CH to "having a limb amputated without anaesthetic"?

BB

I'm guessin that I'm the only person here that would be an expert in the traumatic amputation category.Both hurt like the dickens but the pain is completly different.Ain't nuthin hurts like clusters.Of course I never gave birth so I can't speak for the women.

Title: Re: This pill just may help CH pain
Post by thebbz on Jan 25^th, 2007, 10:07pm

The first neuro that I saw told me to take two aspirin and drink them with a coke. [smiley=huh.gif] He also was fired. [smiley=laugh.gif]
Who compared CH to "having a limb amputated without anaesthetic"?
I remember reading this somewhere. I think it was Goadsby. Now I have to go find it. :P
jb

Title: Re: This pill just may help CH pain
Post by swimchica623 on Jan 26^th, 2007, 2:32pm

geeee i saw this post and i thought it was a joke or something. Makes me kinda mad and irritated. I do keep some extra strength tylenol around....mildly numbs pain AFTER the CH has left that I get from hitting my arms/legs/head against things but doesn't even completely get rid of that. I'm just kinda dumbfounded really......

ooh i tried redbull combined with a tript. for my first time. i was shocked that it worked but it stoped my kip 7 after about 10 or 15 minutes...im at the end of a cycle so maybe it ended on its own but maybe not who knows. maybe it would have gotten worse, maybe it would have lasted longer..i think it did a little something though.

Title: Re: This pill just may help CH pain
Post by Bob P on Jan 26^th, 2007, 2:55pm

Quote:

I think it was Goadsby

It was Goadsby. It may be in one of his articles on the OUCH site but he also used it in the video on ch.com where is talking about the scans of the hypothalamus.