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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Cluster Headache Specific >> CH pain ? post hits
        
(Message started by: BB on Jan 13^th, 2007, 7:04pm)

Title: CH pain ? post hits
Post by BB on Jan 13^th, 2007, 7:04pm

Hello everyone, :)

From the literature it says that CH pain starts suddenly and can ram up from nothing to excruciating in matters of minutes, then will drop back down to zero again just as suddenly and completely.

However, from talking to my Daniel and others here, it doesnt seem to be that clear cut. There appears to be lingering pain in various forms quite often after a hit has gone, and the pain may reduce gradually instead of stopping suddenly.

My question is do all of you experience post hit pain sometimes? and how often would that happen ? What would you say is the percentage of zero post hit pain to moderately severe post hit pain ? Is there anything you can take for it? Would OTC meds help? Would oxygen/Red Bull help? Do they occur more often with higher kip hits ?

Thank you very much.

Painfree wishes to all.

Annette

Title: Re: CH pain ? post hits
Post by AussieBrian on Jan 13^th, 2007, 7:46pm

If you're referring to what can only be described as the pain of severe bruising, I can certainly put my hand up for that. Another interesting one that I dislike intensely is, after a real biggie, it's like a worm crawling around under the skin of my temple.

Yukkky!!!

Title: Re: CH pain ? post hits
Post by BB on Jan 13^th, 2007, 7:56pm

Thats interesting Brian, Daniel doesnt have that "wormy" sensation but I guess its nerve irritation ? Is it in the distribution of the trigeminal nerve ? Would applying ice on the skin help ?

The bruised feeling that you described, is that just in/around the head or is that a general feeling?

I have been told that after a hit one often feels exhausted as if have been " beaten up on the inside". Apparently triptans can give this feeling too. I wonder if its due to change/effect of the serotonin levels ?

Hope you are feeling better today Brian :-*

Annette

Title: Re: CH pain ? post hits
Post by AussieBrian on Jan 13^th, 2007, 8:14pm

The feeling of bruising is solely around the affected area and you'd really expect to look in the mirror and see it just black and blue. (Which would be nice, might get some sympathy.)

As to feeling 'beaten up on the inside' I think can we can all attest to that. Like going ten rounds with Mike Tyson to escape with just your ears and parole.

Title: Re: CH pain ? post hits
Post by Charlotte on Jan 13^th, 2007, 8:22pm

I think the wormy feeling is the blood vessels swelling upward across the temple.

Charlotte

Title: Re: CH pain ? post hits
Post by BB on Jan 13^th, 2007, 8:37pm

Thanks Charlotte,

I think you have a good point there. During a CH hit, the extracranial ( outside the skull ) blood vessels are swollen too and there are a lot of pain nerve supplying these blood vessels so I guess there would be considerable amount of pain sensation from them.

Annette

Title: Re: CH pain ? post hits
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Jan 13^th, 2007, 10:47pm

Hi Annette,
Sometimes an attack can happen in a matter of minutes, other times for me it can take a while of shadowing and general discomfort before I really get whacked. Today, for example, my cluster lump has been hurting and I have been restless like when getting hit, and also have some minor pain since i woke up this morning. So far today, i really havent gotten 'hit'.

Course, the beast probably wont hit until later when i get some private time with the wif. :-/

damn beast................

Title: Re: CH pain ? post hits
Post by georgej on Jan 14^th, 2007, 12:11am

Yep.

Post-CH pain, at least for me, seems to be related to how long the hit was and how severe. Fairly short, low-grade hits have almost no aftereffects, and disappear quickly. Long, nasty ones seem to have the ugliest aftereffects. The description of feeling as if I've been beaten up on the inside is a good one--a powerful, dull ache in the area that was affected. It gradually subsides. It's not so bad at all, compared to what was going on before, but I suspect that a lot of people might consider it pretty horrible.

I don't consider the after-effect part of the hit--it's like a hangover. The hit itself subsides quite rapidly--I know when it's ending, because I get a sensation as if ice has been suddenly run through the veins in my head, there are one or more rapid stabs of intense pain, and it's as if something is suddenly "released". The sweating and tearing immediately stops, and I go from overheated to cold in a minute or so.

All in all, the whole experience (and it sucks big time) is so outlandish and bizarre, so unlike anything an average person can compare it to, that the word "headache" doesn't really describe it at all.

Best,

George

Title: Re: CH pain ? post hits
Post by Pinkfloyd on Jan 14^th, 2007, 1:02am

on 01/13/07 at 20:37:37, BB wrote:

During a CH hit, the extracranial ( outside the skull ) blood vessels are swollen too and there are a lot of pain nerve supplying these blood vessels
Annette

Well, the pain is certainly not coming from swelling of intracranial blood vessels.

Bobw

Title: Re: CH pain ? post hits
Post by artonio7 on Jan 14^th, 2007, 1:41am

After a severe hit there is some residual discomfort... but it's like a walk on a sunny beach compared to the hit. The discomfort is best described as a dull, dull ache and the muscle tension in my neck is usually bothersome as well. What is more noticeable is being totally drained. There is also a sense of emptiness which is hard to explain.

I don't know if anyone else ever experiences this as well and it may or may not be related to CH as I have been experiencing this long before ch.
It feels as though a pencil point is being pressed against my temple. It's not an agonizing intolerable pain but annoying. When the sensation occurs it's always on the surface of the skin and only lasts for a few moments at a time.

Title: Re: CH pain ? post hits
Post by BarbaraD on Jan 14^th, 2007, 6:53am

The "shadow" is minor pain, not a full blown hit. Usually Red Bull or three Excedrin ES (with coffee) and O2 will stop this.

A "full blown" hit can hit without warning -- 1-10 in seconds (well it seems like seconds). Then it's MEDICINE time, head banging, wishing for a lightning bolt to hit. It usually stops as suddenly as it started.

An "exhausted" feeling lasts for hours after a hit. Most of the time you can write me off for the rest of the day after a hit. I'm just too tired to do anything and can't think very clearly.

Hugs BD

Title: Re: CH pain ? post hits
Post by bigred on Jan 14^th, 2007, 10:45am

Lets answer this in my experiances.
1. meds free; defininite residule pain, felt like I was in a fight, after going from the ufora of feeling the beast come on at 2-4 to a full blown 10 cryer with no meds before I was diagnosed, It was the worst feeling in my life, and ive been burnt and in a head on car crash.
2. with meds; You feel the ufora coming so you now you have your trex handy, you wait till it gets to were he makes you mad enough to use it, Just about 7-9, in about 5min(for me) its all gone and I have NO risidual pain at all, BUT my problem is I think I rely on the trex injextions so much that I have more REBOUNDS then Shacquil Oniel from the Miami Heat!!!
Im in the proccess of trying to change my prevents to shorten my usage of the Trex!!
Good Topic:
BIGRED ;;D

Title: Re: CH pain ? post hits
Post by BB on Jan 14^th, 2007, 12:03pm

Thanks all for replying :)

BMoney,
Have you tried applying ice on your cluster lump when it starts to hurt, prior to a full blown hit to see if it would clear it up? What you described there is known as shadow, right ? So would a Redbull prevent it from becoming full blown at a later inconvenient time?

George,
Thank you for a very detailed description. Its very important for me as a doctor and supporter to try to understand what happens before/during and after a hit. Although I will never be able to physically feel the event, having a clear mental picture of various sensations help a lot.

Pinkfloyd,
Sorry you lost me there. I was talking about extra cranial blood vessels and you mentioned intra cranial ones? Would you please clarify ? Thanks

Artonio,
I have heard few people talking about the pencil pressure point that you described. Not sure what it is though.

Barbara,
Apart from the exhausted feeling, do you get any residual pain in the head itself?

BigRed,
So you get NO residual pain at all after using trex shots? Doesnt the Trex give you sort of a "washed out" feeling itself? How many are you using a day? Have you looked at the Trex tip ( left hand side column ) as it can help cut down the total number of injections used per day.

Thanks again everyone :-*

Painfree wishes to all.

Annette

Title: Re: CH pain ? post hits
Post by bigred on Jan 14^th, 2007, 12:24pm

Thanks for asking Annette, Almost all my hits are at night, once a day, I get an occassional twice daily but that is usualy brought on by head colds or sinus infections messing with my sysytem!! (6every 2 weeks is my average CH for the last two years)
For the hits at night, after I use the Trex I sleep like a baby,right after a cigarrette. No problems.
I tried the lighter dose it dont work on me! I weigh 205lbs, Like my doc says, hit it with a hammer dummy,
Why suffer when ya dont have to!!!
I use the 6ml shots,they came out with either a 3 or 4 ml shot I tried and it was not worth my time to get relief.
Every minute in the 10 zone is DEATH, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN!!!
LOL
BIGRED ::)

Title: Re: CH pain ? post hits
Post by MorDog on Jan 14^th, 2007, 12:58pm

I don't get any side effects from the Imitrex (nasal spray) other than the taste. However, I dont always use it to abort every hit. Mostly use it on the nighttime hits so I can get back to sleep sooner. The times when I don't abort I just grin and bear it.

The residual pain after a hit that I didn't abort feels much like what has been described already. Bruised feeling, dull ache, icy feeling in my veins in the exact area where the hit occured. I do also feel a bit worn out after the bad ones. Kinda like working out if your not used to it.

I also feel a fair amount of shadowing. Times inbetween hits where you have, about a 1 on the pain scale, feeling of discomfort. Not really a headache just discomfort in the CH area.

Title: Re: CH pain ? post hits
Post by edbeek on Jan 14^th, 2007, 9:16pm

My CH start and finish very quickly.
I'm episodic and usually get them at night, so by the time I wake, it has already got a hold. When it finishes, it is just a matter of 1-2 minutes from when I feel it weakening to when I am completely PF. I get no after effects at all, but most of my CH are kip7-8 and maybe a few 9's/ cycle.
I only used coffee last cycle and a week on prednisone. The prednisone disrupted the regularity of the Hits and gave me several daytime CH which would wane and come back again, but after it was 'gone' it was completely gone with no after effects.

Title: Re: CH pain ? post hits
Post by gonz2112 on Jan 14^th, 2007, 10:34pm

on 01/14/07 at 10:45:10, bigred wrote:

in about 5min(for me) its all gone and I have NO risidual pain at all, BUT my problem is I think I rely on the trex injextions so much that I have more REBOUNDS then Shacquil Oniel from the Miami Heat!!!

Ditto for me. If I abort with O2 I often have shadows right afterwards and sometimes it wasn't aborted at all and comes backs in 5 -10 mins.

If I abort w/trex jabs, the pain is completely gone and the HA is aborted 100% of the time. That doesn't mean I won't have shadows later on, but not right afterwards. I am more worn out than if I had used O2, but it's a tradeoff I can deal with.

I too try to limit the use of trex as much as possible despite not really experiencing many rebounds the best I can tell. I seem get 2 - 4 a day whether I use trex or O2. Since I have not charted the HA's and abortives used I can not be certain that there isn't an increase of hits when I use more trex, but it doesn't seem that way. Perhaps I am in denial because like I too refuse to suffer if I don't have too. If I can't abort with Red Bull and O2 then I am reaching for the trex everytime. I'll take my chances on more rebounds and extended cycles.

Mark

Title: Re: CH pain ? post hits
Post by starlight on Jan 17^th, 2007, 10:00am

Severe hits give me a "hangover" which amounts to pain and light sensitivity in my left eye--sometimes pretty extreme where I worse sunglasses inside and hung out in a dark room. But that was 2 cycles ago. This past cycle, at peak of cycle, the beast favored giving me some eye pain next day combined with swollen half a head/shadow feeling next day. It's the real big ones that leave this lingering hangover pain at least for me. Star

Title: Re: CH pain ? post hits
Post by Shedz on Jan 17^th, 2007, 10:15am

I feel some residual pain after a major hit and can only liken it to a very bad hangover or like the side of my head is bruised :(

Title: Re: CH pain ? post hits
Post by burnt-toast on Jan 17^th, 2007, 11:24am

I experience two types of residual issues that are often referred to.

Hypersensitivity - In my case, hair, scalp, eye, etc. often remain hypersensitive following severe attacks. This may last half the following day. It's an irritating sensitivity to touch in affected areas and not what I consider residual pain (although our concept of pain is somewhat skewed).

Shadows - In my case persistent, very low grade CH attacks that for some reason never evolve into full blown attacks. Discomfort in all the familiar CH places with fear of a developing attack that never happens. I go for long periods (sometimes months) without experiencing them only to have a few days where they are a nuisence. They don't seem to be a prelude to increased CH activity or the result of high CH activity.

Tom