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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Cluster Headache Specific >> Caffeine
        
(Message started by: theimage on Nov 18^th, 2006, 10:10am)

Title: Caffeine
Post by theimage on Nov 18^th, 2006, 10:10am

I visit this forum periodically and each time I visit there's a new development. This time Caffeine. I'd always assumed that caffeine would make a CH worse. So what's the score with caffeine then and why can it abort a CH?

I've always made a connection with CH and tiredness although not sure which causes which but maybe this caffeine theory has something to do with that. Same with the red bull.

But why?

Title: Re: Caffeine
Post by MJ on Nov 18^th, 2006, 11:27am

Relaxation or tiredness go hand in hand with CH and me as well.

And I have allways been of the belief that any compound, be it caffeine, energy drinks etc.., that cause stimulation of the nervous system is beneficial in the battle against CH.

WHY? Dont know.

Title: Re: Caffeine
Post by Bob_Johnson on Nov 18^th, 2006, 11:34am

A drug loaded with paradox! Over the years, we have seen multiple messages supporting both responses to exposure to caffeine. Seems to me a matter of timing: It can provoke an attack but, if taken when an attack is starting, it aborts or reduces it for some people.

I'll guess that it has to do with the vasoconstricting impact of caffeine. Since, when an attack is in process, arteries dilate, then there (we assume) some benefit from the constricting action. (However, see the message "Triptans: Peter Goadsby on mode of action" in the Medications section.)

But I also suspect there are more assumptions operating around caffeine than well established knowledge. Nonetheless, the variety of responses, pro & con, to many products you see discussed here, leads one to conclude that some personal trials are worth doing. Individual responses only tell us that we are a long way from finding universal causes/treatments.

Title: Re: Caffeine
Post by pattik on Nov 18^th, 2006, 11:35am

During CH attacks, blood vessels in the affected area can swell up to 20 times their normal size. Caffeine is a known vasoconstrictor, and when used early, can have a positive effect on aborting CH attacks.

Patk

Title: Re: Caffeine
Post by thebbz on Nov 18^th, 2006, 11:50am

Ergotamine tablets have a wonderful 200+ mg. of caffeine in each tab. Many years ago one my the first treatments included ergotamine tabs. I found that the ergot made me sick and the caffeine aborted the HA. Since then, 20 years or so, I have aborted more CH attacks with caffeine than anything.
It can be a paradox as Bob said though. In using the caffeine one tends to get on an ever increasing daily amount of caffeine intake. This will end in the caffeine actually triggering or causing rebounds unless one is mindful of it.
Of course this is just one example, it can come in handy to abort in some instances. For example using caffeine to help conserve on other aborts, or when getting hit first thing in the morning.(need java then anyway) [smiley=twocents.gif]
;) Oh the memories
jb

Title: Re: Caffeine
Post by jon019 on Nov 18^th, 2006, 1:03pm

on 11/18/06 at 11:34:28, Bob_Johnson wrote:

A drug loaded with paradox! Over the years, we have seen multiple messages supporting both responses to exposure to caffeine. Seems to me a matter of timing: It can provoke an attack but, if taken when an attack is starting, it aborts or reduces it for some people.

Bang on, Bob! Timing and dosage. My brother the ex pharmacist calls it titration. In my case, a morning dose will inevitably CAUSE a hit(s) later in the day, which caffeine then may or may not help. Yet if I wait til the actual hit, if it aint a big one, caffeine works wonders.
The proper amount is also critical and only you can determine how much is enough or NOT enough.

But I also suspect there are more assumptions operating around caffeine than well established knowledge. Nonetheless, the variety of responses, pro & con, to many products you see discussed here, leads one to conclude that some personal trials are worth doing. Individual responses only tell us that we are a long way from finding universal causes/treatments.

Yup, Thomas Edison said we don't know one millionth of 1 percent about ANYTHING. He was into personal trials. You should be too. Nothing does or doesn't work for everyone here, there's only one way to find out. Think like a good pro athlete, not too high with success, not too low with failure.

Best,

Jon

Title: Re: Caffeine
Post by theimage on Nov 18^th, 2006, 3:05pm

I'm off out to buy some coffee and red bull.
Thanks for all of that.

Title: Re: Caffeine
Post by BB on Nov 18^th, 2006, 3:58pm

Funny thing is, with Daniel, he has gone off the taste of both cigs and coffee half way into this cycle !

He wasnt diagnosed properly with his previous cycles and for years he smoked heaps and drank heaps of coffee, I am sure as a way to medicate himself without even knowing.

But in a cycle, he says that the taste of his fav ciggies and coffee have changed and he is not enjoying them as he used to [smiley=huh.gif]

Anyone else experiences a big change in taste ?

Annette

Title: Re: Caffeine
Post by jon019 on Nov 18^th, 2006, 4:17pm

on 11/18/06 at 15:58:17, BB wrote:

Anyone else experiences a big change in taste ?

Annette

Just the opposite BB. I crave what I can't have.

Jon

Title: Re: Caffeine
Post by thebbz on Nov 18^th, 2006, 4:22pm

One of the basic symtoms of CH is autonomic nervous reactions. Many have changes in sensory nerves as well.
This includes optic,olfactory,sensory, ect...
When in cycle these become more sensative.(sp?)http://www.miqel.com/clusterheadaches/clusterheadaches.html#cluster-headache-cause
http://www.ion.ucl.ac.uk/research/hbir/hbir_headache.htm
read read read
all the best
jb

Title: Re: Caffeine
Post by The Image on Nov 18^th, 2006, 7:02pm

Brings a whole new meaning to the phrase 'Wake up and smell the coffee'.

Title: Re: Caffeine
Post by sandie99 on Nov 19^th, 2006, 3:19am

Now, ice cold Red Bull is my ch treatmement no 1, because it works fast - I'm PF with minutes. I believe that the secret behind its success is in the combo - caffeine and taurine. But I have to take it as soon as I feel the hit coming.

Image, let us know if coffee and/or red bull works for you. :)

PF days,
Sanna

Title: Re: Caffeine
Post by Spoticus on Nov 24^th, 2006, 6:38am

on 11/18/06 at 15:58:17, BB wrote:

Anyone else experiences a big change in taste ?

Personally I find my appetite in general disappears during a cycle. Yet I often find myself trying to force food or drink down during an attack as a distractive technique.

Title: Re: Caffeine
Post by Charlie on Nov 24^th, 2006, 9:06pm

It's probably coincidental but about the time I began to drink coffee so strong that it needed to be consumed with a fork, my CH took a powder for the last 15 years.

My guess is that age had something to do with it.

Charlie

Title: Re: Caffeine
Post by jcline871 on Dec 5^th, 2006, 2:17am

One interesting observation. While I was in Vegas on my bachelor party, my cycle decided to start up (beautiful timing). I was unable to consume any alcohol and wanting an alternative kick, I downed two redbulls before heading out to dinner with the guys. This maybe was too much and appears to have acted as a trigger (much the same a glass of wine would have) and I spent the entire dinner in the bathroom at the expensive restaurant leaning over a sink pouring cold water over my head. Ah, people must have thought I had too much to drink.. how sad. At least the other 9 guys enjoyed the meal. I got back in time to have a piece of tiramisu.

-John

Title: Re: Caffeine
Post by Hoping on Dec 12^th, 2006, 9:53am

He seems to have a bit of luck with drinking Pixie Mate everyday, instead of coffee. If you are one of those who drinks caffeine and it helps, this might help you.
I didn't see much of a discussion on yerba mate, which is why I am mentioning it.

Here's more info on Pixie Mate that I put in my myspace blog. I'm a research librarian, so I'm a bit thorough.

Also, pixie mate is actually pretty mild. I just prefer its taste. If you do more research on google with yerba mate, you will find more info. I think if you use a specific type of gourd called a bombilla with the stronger tea leaves, you get a stronger hit of caffeine.

http://www.noborders.net/mate/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yerba_mate

Pixie Mate tea. It gives you energy, 800% more antioxidants than tea, helps with metabolism, and all kinds of good stuff. Check it out at:
www.pixiemate.com

http://www.pixiemate.com/paparazzi.html
http://www.pixiemate.com/antioxidants.html

So far I've found it at Whole Foods market ($5) and online.
My favorite flavors are Green Tea Mate and Limon Mate
Here are some store links:
http://www.amazon.com/Pixie-Mate-Bags-Authentic-20-Count/dp/B000I64M2I/s r=1-10/qid=1163430738/ref=sr_1_10/002-2539657-6281632?ie=UTF8&s=gourmet-food

http://www.herbtrader.com/shop-brands-pixie-mate-20-tea-bags.html

Pass this email on to those you know are addicted to caffeine.... God Bless!

Title: Re: Caffeine
Post by phillyfrank on Dec 12^th, 2006, 9:47pm

:D :D i use red bull, always works for me.

Title: Re: Caffeine
Post by TonyG1 on Dec 15^th, 2006, 8:37am

on 11/18/06 at 15:58:17, BB wrote:

Annette - I'm currently starting a new cycle -- my sense of smell goes out the roof when I'm in the hell zone... this a.m. had a CH -- finally got it to abort ... I could smell the coffee (literally) with my bedroom door shut ... kitchen is at the far end of the house from my bedroom...

Title: Re: Caffeine
Post by Ob1kanobee on Dec 29^th, 2006, 12:28am

Several months ago I began to tapor off caffiene, soda, smokes, sweets, pastas, I cleaned up my diet in general. I said well I'm 36 Y.O. now and I need to start taking care of myself. Probably why I came across this site. Got these headaches again and figured I would investigate further.

I also suffer from anxiety, so when you folks are up in the morning drinking your coffee (which I love), I'm drinking sleepy time tea or something along those lines and having a clonazepam.

For most people, they would want to go right back to bed. I think that by eliminating as much of those bad foods out of my diet ( I cheat here and there) it is gonna help with the CH.

For instance, a Redd Bull along with other things (see my other posts) has successfully stopped two of these headaches from escalating. If I had all that junk in my system already, I don't know if this would be as successful.
It's probaly still in my system somewhat fro years of abuse, but do you get what I am saying?

There is no doubt in my mind that there is a link between lifestyle and diet when treating CH or any ailment for that matter. I have viewed some of the pictures from the conventions for CH and I see many smokers :o That surely can't be good for CH.

I am a social smoker, meaning if I am out, it is hard for me not to have some smokes if my friends are smoking. Call it peer preasure or feeling the need to blend in with the crowd or whatever. Not anymore, I am done with that too. I might add that I smoked for the previous 17 years quiting a few times only to start again. However I only smoked at work and rarely at the house.

I am also just starting to drink more fluids (water). I have seen where people have posted you can die from too much water or get sick ect., but I think this is rare. It depends on many things. Is there a reason medically you can't drink too much? How active are you? Fact is most people don't drink enough water. If you are in doubt, ask your Doctor or qualified health proffesional, maybe a good nutrionist.

Keep in mind too that I am trying to approach this the most natural way I can without the use of drugs (if possible). If you read the posts on this site, you will come accross many who are now trying to get off the meds and go more natural. The argument could probably be made that there are many who are trying natural and it is not working and they want meds.

There are so many variables when dealing with this, one really needs to examine theirselves and see if they are missing something or if they can make any lifestyle changes or habbits. Remember, whatever you decide to do , exercise moderation. lmost every doctor or health professional, when they want you to make changes, you are told to do it gradually.

For instance if you just quite smoking cold turkey, that can cause health problems as well as a pissed off angry person. I try to do all things gradually amd exercise moderation. I am not perfect at it (moderation) but I try hard.

Title: Re: Caffeine
Post by lskilly on Jan 1^st, 2007, 12:40pm

Like Charlie my coffee is so strong I am the only one that touches it.

Skilly

Title: Re: Caffeine
Post by taraann on Jan 1^st, 2007, 2:56pm

I don't know if this is condusive to this thread or not but I felt the need to add something to this thread....

My grandpa had clusters (back then called histamine headaches) and he used to drink "kettle coffee" at the onset of an attack. This consists of a large amt. of coffee at the bottom of a coffee can with hot boiling water poured over it. Then the hot water/coffee and grounds are drank as quickly as possible. I tried, got most of it down, and it didn't help me. But then again I am the worst comparison, pretty much nothing really works for me. (not o2, not trex, not jack shit)

Title: Re: Caffeine
Post by TonyG1 on Jan 2^nd, 2007, 8:55am

on 01/01/07 at 12:40:14, lskilly wrote:

Like Charlie my coffee is so strong I am the only one that touches it.

Skilly

Ditto -- Count me in that killer coffee club ... ;)

Title: Re: Caffeine
Post by TonyG1 on Jan 2^nd, 2007, 9:29am

On the coffee question - someone was very thoughtful for X-Mas and bought me a coffee maker that I can brew a cup of steaming java in around 5 seconds.... very cool stuff (Not advertising, just sharing info)

http://www.keurig.com/brewers.asp?mscsid=2RKRRGPKXX3N8MCLB92KC4QV2JEEB555