Clusterheadaches.com Message Board
        (http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi)
      

        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Cluster Headache Specific >> My Cluster Cure
        
(Message started by: ghostwriter on Oct 13th, 2006, 12:47am)
Title: My Cluster Cure
Post by ghostwriter on Oct 13th, 2006, 12:47am
Post deleted by poster.
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by ghostwriter on Oct 13th, 2006, 1:20am
Post deleted by poster.
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by georgej on Oct 13th, 2006, 1:31am

on 10/13/06 at 01:20:47, ghostwriter wrote:
Hi again, I have been reading some of the posts in the thread and I hope none of you think I am trying to sell anything here. LOL...

Maybe I will be flamed for posting what I did, but after teo years of no episodes I thought I waited long enough. (my cycles average 10-14 months between and the last was Spring/Summer 2004.)

Like I said, I will get a translator and post the recipe and if any of you try it I pray it brings you the relief it has brought me. (Assuming it was the brew and not some temporary respite. << Now, there's cynical for ya!!)


I'm listening, but you'll pardon me if I reserve having an opinion about this until some other people try it, and there comes a reasonable explanation why it might work.  Fair enough?

After all, it is entirely possible on the basis of one anecdotal experience that the reason your cycle came to a halt could be something other than the brew.

Sound reasonable?

Best,

George
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by BB on Oct 13th, 2006, 1:48am

Just a thought :

If some Chinese medicine brew can cure CH, I thought that someone in China would have been a billionaire by now patenting and selling it!

CH and medication for CH are being studied in many universities and hospitals in China. I dont think the Chinese doctors and specialists would bother to do so if they already have the cure in their backyard.

Your lovely wife would have bought the herbal ingredients from a Chinese herbalist shop, why dont you go there and talk to the dispenser and ask for more details as to whats in there, how do they work and what are the side effects and long term effects please before recommending it as a "cure" for CH in a public forum?

I have no intention to flame anyone but whoever wishes to post medical and pharmaceutical advices on a public board , especially as a "cure", should do so with caution in case your good intention bring unexpected harm to others.

Painfree wishes to all

Annette
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by Chillrmn1 on Oct 13th, 2006, 6:35am
Interested to see the ingredients of your brew and hopefully Flo will be by to offer his analysis.

Glad it seems to be working for you!
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by Giovanni on Oct 13th, 2006, 8:06am

on 10/13/06 at 06:35:17, Chillrmn1 wrote:
Interested to see the ingredients of your brew and hopefully Flo will be by to offer his analysis.

Glad it seems to be working for you!


If it works for you great :D  Let us know what the brew is when you can.

John
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by Sandy_C on Oct 13th, 2006, 2:43pm
Welcome to the boards.  I'm glad your wife's "medicine" seems to have helped you.  I think it might be a little too early to use the "cure" word, which you've learned from reading these boards, makes all us us somewhat skeptical.

I would be very interested in learning her recipe, as I am sure many of the rest of us are too.  Please try to post it here as soon as you can translate it.

Again, welcome.

Sandy
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by floridian on Oct 13th, 2006, 4:13pm

on 10/13/06 at 01:48:47, BB wrote:
Just a thought :

If some Chinese medicine brew can cure CH, I thought that someone in China would have been a billionaire by now patenting and selling it!

Annette


My take is a little different - if kudzu has been used for treating headache in Asia for thousands of years, why did we only learn of it 2 years ago?  Maybe since it has been used for so long, it isn't eligible for a patent, and there is a financial dis-incentive for any western company to even consider it??  

I was in Chinatown-Orlando a while back and got some herbal migraine stuff ... angelica was a key herb, don't remember the other ingredients.  

I'm also curious to see what was in the brew that ghostwriter quaffed.
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by Jonny on Oct 13th, 2006, 4:49pm
Some how the word "Cure" does not fit here  ;)
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by no-one on Oct 13th, 2006, 6:16pm
Hi,

Look here this might interest you.
http://www.med-owl.com/clusterheadaches/tiki-index.php?page=Keishi-bukuryo-gan
Good luck with keeping them at bay, let us know what is in the tea, as soon as you find out
PF wishes
b
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by BikerBob on Oct 13th, 2006, 6:46pm

on 10/13/06 at 16:13:19, floridian wrote:
My take is a little different - if kudzu has been used for treating headache in Asia for thousands of years, why did we only learn of it 2 years ago?  Maybe since it has been used for so long, it isn't eligible for a patent, and there is a financial dis-incentive for any western company to even consider it??  

I was in Chinatown-Orlando a while back and got some herbal migraine stuff ... angelica was a key herb, don't remember the other ingredients.  

I'm also curious to see what was in the brew that ghostwriter quaffed.


Good points, Floridian. I agree.

There's a huge Chinese medicine store in central Chinatown, San Francisco. It has thousands of jars/bottles/boxes of stuff. I'll stop in some time next week, describe CH in detail, and see what the Chinese "pharmacist" has to say. I'll also ask about the ingredients in ghostwriters brew and what they're used for if he posts them by then.

BB
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by BB on Oct 13th, 2006, 8:56pm

on 10/13/06 at 16:13:19, floridian wrote:
My take is a little different - if kudzu has been used for treating headache in Asia for thousands of years, why did we only learn of it 2 years ago?  Maybe since it has been used for so long, it isn't eligible for a patent, and there is a financial dis-incentive for any western company to even consider it??  




My DH has not tried kudzu so I am not sure of how well it works.

People who have used Kudzu can you please advise whether or not it can block or stop a cycle from developing as our new friend's herbal brew described as above?

Thanks and painfree wishes to all.

Annette
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by kcopelin on Oct 13th, 2006, 9:03pm
I'm sorry Annette, kudzu didn't work for me, and it gave me such bad gas that I  drove my husband and son outside one night ::)
but it helps some folks-let's hear from them...
kathy
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by Melissa on Oct 13th, 2006, 9:16pm
Annette, if you look on the Medications & Treatments section of the website, you can read about peoples experiences with Kudzu.

I had bumped up the threads earlier.
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by Jonny on Oct 13th, 2006, 9:19pm
What works (If it does) for one dont work for all.

Calling anything a cure is pure BS.......tell me about a cure when it has worked for YOU for twenty years!!!!

Dr Goadsby has not worked for years to be out done by some herb......LOL ;;D

Good luck to you, Ghost dude.
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by Charlotte on Oct 13th, 2006, 9:39pm

on 10/13/06 at 20:56:49, BB wrote:
My DH has not tried kudzu so I am not sure of how well it works.

People who have used Kudzu can you please advise whether or not it can block or stop a cycle from developing as our new friend's herbal brew described as above?

Thanks and painfree wishes to all.

Annette


I will PM you, but I won't discuss kudzu on this thread.

Charlotte
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by BikerBob on Oct 13th, 2006, 9:48pm

on 10/13/06 at 21:19:28, Jonny wrote:
Dr Goadsby has not worked for years to be out done by some herb......LOL ;;D


He already got outdone by a mushroom   LOL  ;;D

BB
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by Jonny on Oct 13th, 2006, 9:52pm

on 10/13/06 at 21:48:22, BikerBob wrote:
He already got outdone by a mushroom   LOL  ;;D


Big diff between a prevent and an a cure.......No? ;;D
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by BB on Oct 14th, 2006, 1:53am

Hi everyone,

I went to the biggest Chinese herbal shop in Chinatown in Sydney and asked for some remedy for clusterheadache. This led to a most interesting experience to say the least.

By the way, I am half Chinese and my dear Chinese mother had cooked and fed me various Chinese herbs through the years so I am not that unfamiliar with them.
( Maybe thats why I studied medicine so that she could stop giving me these awful tasting brews?  :P ) So I am not looking at this from a racist point of view by any mean.

I got to see the "doctor" who by the way has no recognisable qualification. Upon questioning he told me that his great grandfather was a physician in China and his various " medicinal secrets" have been handed down through the generations now to him. He has never studied medicine. Also the secret formulae can only be passed onto sons and not daughters so he is trying very hard to "get" a son so that the business can continue! He was quite reluctant when asked about what are the ingredients and how they work. He was suspicious that I had been sent from one of his competitors to "steal" his great grandfather 's secret formulae!

Anyhow, we got to the examination part. I told him that its for my DH and explained the symptoms. I asked him if he should see and talk to and examine my husband to get a better idea of the general health and of his condition. I was told no, there is no need to see the patient !  ::) I gather Ghostwriter wasnt seen by whoever prescribed his wife the herbs either. To me this is quite irresponsible and potentially dangerous. What if my DH has a deadly allergy to some of the ingredients in the herbs?

After listening to my description of CH, the "doctor" went off and collected from the various jars and drawers bundles of dried herbs and weighed them and put them into a paper bad for me. Again he evaded my questions of whats in them and how they work. All that I could get out of him was that they lower blood pressure and some are pain killers and muscle relaxants. The main ingredients thats going to "cure" the headache must remain a family secret!

I was then taught how to cook them in an earthern urn, a special one that I needed to buy from him as cooking in metal utensils will render the herbs useless  [smiley=huh.gif]. I was to add 1.2 L of water, bring it to the boil then simmer until most of the water has vaporised and only 1 smal bowl of the brew is left. He also stressed that I must give it to my DH to drink while its still hot, as once its gone cold it wont work anymore.  ::)

My last question to him was is this only for clusterheadache or can I use it myself in case I get a really bad headache. To this, without asking me what sort of headache I have or whether or not I may be pregnant, he cheerfully said that I indeed could use it too, its very good for all "bad" headaches but I would need to buy another dose. What he had sold me was for one dose only and people often need several doses before they are "cured".

I have the paper bag with all its ingredients here if anyone would like to try. My DH decided he would pass!

If anyone else takes a trip to your Chinese herbalist in the same quest, would you please be so kind as to post your experience here? I hope someone else will get better information than I did.

Thank you all for reading. Sorry about the long post.

Painfree wishes to us all.

Annette
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by georgej on Oct 14th, 2006, 2:21am

on 10/14/06 at 01:53:40, BB wrote:
I went to the biggest Chinese herbal shop in Chinatown in Sydney and asked for some remedy for clusterheadache. This led to a most interesting experience to say the least.


Hmm.

Interesting, indeed.
;)

Thank you, Annette.

Best wishes,

George
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by BikerBob on Oct 14th, 2006, 3:37am

on 10/14/06 at 01:53:40, BB wrote:
To me this is quite irresponsible and potentially dangerous.

What he had sold me........

I have the paper bag with all its ingredients here if anyone would like to try. My DH decided he would pass!

Annette


Why did you buy it and offer it to your DH if you didn't know what it was? Are you really a doctor?

BB
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by BB on Oct 14th, 2006, 4:25am

on 10/14/06 at 03:37:15, BikerBob wrote:
Why did you buy it and offer it to your DH if you didn't know what it was? Are you really a doctor?

BB



You really like me dont you Bob ? You seem to follow me around the board posting the most ridiculous questions trying to get my attention.

Dont know what you want but if you are trying to upset me or flame me then you need to try much much much harder than that !

Annette
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by sandie99 on Oct 14th, 2006, 6:26am
Ghostwriter, welcome. I am glad that you've come across something which helped you with your ch. Like it has been said, one thing does not work on us all. But personally I'm always ready to read about new success stories. I hope that your wife's receipe keeps on working for you!

best wishes,
Sanna
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by brewcrew on Oct 14th, 2006, 8:39am

Quote:
The main ingredients thats going to "cure" the headache must remain a family secret!


Ancient Chinese secrect, eh? Calgon? ;;D

(for those over the age of about 45 or so)
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by kcopelin on Oct 14th, 2006, 10:09am
Wow Annette, now that was real detective work there.  Dang interesting that he wouldn't tell ya what was in the concoction.  I am not one to bash Chinese medicine since it has been around longer than"western medicine". And I guess, truth be told, I don't know the ingredients in my zomig-well I can read them but that doesn't mean I know what I'm reading. How much did one dose cost ya?  Anyway to have it analyzed?
Could you send it to ghostwriter and see if its the same stuff?
Annette, thank you for being here!
kathy
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by LeLimey on Oct 14th, 2006, 10:26am

on 10/14/06 at 03:37:15, BikerBob wrote:
Why did you buy it and offer it to your DH if you didn't know what it was? Are you really a doctor?

BB



Where did she say she had actually offered it to her DH?
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by Charlotte on Oct 14th, 2006, 11:05am
"I have the paper bag with all its ingredients here if anyone would like to try. My DH decided he would pass!"

Annette offered it to DH and he apparently evaluated his situation and decided to pass.  

That is something we all do, evaluate and decide, based on the situation at that moment.

c

ps  sorry, I assumed you offered it to him but you just told him about it.
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by BB on Oct 14th, 2006, 11:13am

Hi Kathy,

Yes I did it to see if I can get to know what ingredients were used but wasnt able to.

That one dose costs me $25.

I could send it to Ghostwriter if he wants to compare but I dont know if it would pass custom or not.

I would be interested to hear anyone else's experience at their local Chinese herbal shop though.



Helen,

Thank you! I didnt offer it to my DH, of course. Just told him what happened and he was flabbergasted!

Annette
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by Charlotte on Oct 14th, 2006, 11:17am
BB, i am uncomfortable with the title of this thread.  I wish you had started a different thread related to the pertinent evolved discussion.

love, c
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by BB on Oct 14th, 2006, 11:46am

I am sorry Charlotte, didnt mean to make you feel uncomfortable. I apologise.

I will stop here, I have learnt what I needed to on the subject.

Annette
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by BMoneeTheMoneeMan on Oct 14th, 2006, 11:47am

on 10/14/06 at 08:39:05, brewcrew wrote:
Ancient Chinese secrect, eh? Calgon? ;;D

(for those over the age of about 45 or so)


No way, Bill, that was still quite popular 25 and 30 years ago.  I remember I said that to a Chinese Ex-Girlfriend once, she didnt know what the hell was so funny.

I would be interested in hearing the herbs in that cocktail, too.  Some foods or whatnot can have pretty crazy effects on the body, it wouldnt surprise me if there were some herbs in that cocktail that worked to constrict blood vessles, or even worked in the way that clusterbusters work......receptor blocking or whatever.  

B$
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by Racer1_NC on Oct 14th, 2006, 12:34pm

on 10/14/06 at 11:13:14, BB wrote:
Yes I did it to see if I can get to know what ingredients were used but wasnt able to.


You might consider sending it to a lab.....I'd be interested to know what it really is.

Bill
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by Pinkfloyd on Oct 14th, 2006, 12:49pm

on 10/14/06 at 12:34:07, Racer1_NC wrote:
You might consider sending it to a lab.....I'd be interested to know what it really is.

Bill


Sounds like a good idea to me. Leave no stone unturned is my motto.

The trip to the Chinese herbalist didn't sound strange to me. No reason he should be any different than the manufacturers of Coke or Grandma's Apple Pie or Mrs. Fields Cookies.

BB, I'm sorry if you've answered this before but, what type of doctor are you, if you don't mind answering.

Can you bring it to your lab and have it tested? Shouldn't be too difficult.
If the stuff worked at all, it would be worth analyzing. I'm pretty sure I could get it checked out. Maybe if the originator of this thread can't find out what was in his, we could get his concoction checked out.

Why did your husband turn it down? Is he pregnant?  ;;D

Bobw
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by BB on Oct 14th, 2006, 12:58pm
Thats a good point to try to send it to a lab, I am not sure which lab will do this type of analysis though and how much it will cost.

I will make a few phone calls and find out.

I am a General Practitioner, not a specialist , yet !  ;) So I know a little about everything. When I become a specialist then I will know everything about very little!  ;;D

The lab that we use only does blood and human body tissue analysis, they dont deal with botanical materials. I may need to contact the University Labs.


Annette


PS: I wish my DH is pregnant !  ;) That may abort this whole cycle AND give us a cute looking daughter  ;;D

PS2: Out of respect to my wonderful friend Charlotte, when I get more info I will start another thread.
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by mynm156 on Oct 14th, 2006, 4:41pm
:-/  
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by Bethany1 on Oct 14th, 2006, 7:54pm

on 10/14/06 at 08:39:05, brewcrew wrote:
Ancient Chinese secrect, eh? Calgon? ;;D

(for those over the age of about 45 or so)


I'm 32 bucco... and it was WISK... ring around the collar...... (I think)

;)
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by brewcrew on Oct 14th, 2006, 8:06pm

on 10/14/06 at 11:47:21, BMoneeTheMoneeMan wrote:
No way, Bill, that was still quite popular 25 and 30 years ago.  I remember I said that to a Chinese Ex-Girlfriend once, she didnt know what the hell was so funny.

Okay, so I was off by a decade, bro. ;;D

Saying that to a Chinese ex-girlfriend - that takes big ones of steel, my friend.
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by brewcrew on Oct 14th, 2006, 8:11pm

on 10/14/06 at 19:54:55, Bethany1 wrote:
I'm 32 bucco... and it was WISK... ring around the collar...... (I think)

;)

From Wikipedia:

Quote:
This commercial was for Calgon water softener.

A Caucasian woman with an American accent asks "Mr. Lee", a laundry shop owner, how he gets her shirts so clean. He replies, with what appears to be a Chinese accent, "Ancient Chinese secret."

The scene changes to Mrs. Lee, who is in an adjoining room. Mrs. Lee is also ethnically Chinese, but she speaks English with a thoroughly American accent, and explains to the audience that her husband's "ancient Chinese secret" is that he uses Calgon water softener.

Mrs. Lee ultimately gives the secret away by sticking her head into the front room where Mr. Lee and the customer are standing, and shouts "We need more Calgon!" To which the customer replies "Ancient Chinese secret, huh?"

This commercial is one also remembered by people many years after it has aired. It has been viewed by some groups as continuing a stereotype that all laundry services are run by Chinese immigrants, but it could equally be viewed as a satire of that stereotype.
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by Bethany1 on Oct 14th, 2006, 8:17pm
I swore it was ring around the collar. Well, gimme a break... I was 2.  
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by Barry_T_Coles on Oct 14th, 2006, 10:06pm

on 10/14/06 at 08:39:05, brewcrew wrote:
Ancient Chinese secrect, eh? Calgon? ;;D

(for those over the age of about 45 or so)


Calgon eh!

I work for the water utility here in West Oz and we use Calgon in bore water sources where calcium is a problem; it keeps the calcium in suspension so that it doesn’t clog up your hot water system, kettle or any appliance where the water is heated, and it works a treat.
Spose in a strange way you could call it a calcium blocker. ;)

Regards
Barry
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by AussieBrian on Oct 14th, 2006, 10:33pm

on 10/14/06 at 11:17:46, Charlotte wrote:
BB, i am uncomfortable with the title of this thread.  

I'm still with ghostwriter on this, it was just an unfortunate choice of words in the topic.  He's found something that works for him and has passed it on in the best of faith.

If I found that putting a black snake under my pillow avoided my 2am hit it be the first let evryone know, same as I hope would anybody else.

BB, talk to Choice magazine, they do heaps of stuff like this.

Cheers and snakes,

Brian.
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by unsolved1 on Oct 14th, 2006, 11:25pm
I think that word, "CURE", should be banned from this website!! Everytime someone types "CURE" ... it should be replaced with "helpful thing" or something !!


Maybe it's a little overboard, but we all know there is NO CURE !!

Glad to hear that the concoction may have helped someone though.

PF Wishes
UNsolved
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by kcopelin on Oct 14th, 2006, 11:49pm
A thread by any other name is still a thread-lighten up-geez.  This is a very interesting thread (cept I got lost on the whole calgon thing) and all the discussion about the herbal ingredients was pertinent.  Thank you Annette, again.  And you're probably right-wouldn't get through customs.
kathy
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by jon019 on Oct 15th, 2006, 3:05am
I am still waiting to know what was in the "tea". Based on what Annette said, we may never know.

Testing sounds great, BUT, botanicals contain dozens of compounds. Drug companies spend millions of dollars searching for the next viagra or such (clusterheadache? never heard of it!). It's a real bitch and success is rare.

Anyway, testing is just the beginning:

You gotta know what you are looking for. What is the active ingredient?

bioavailability in humans? associated toxins? contaminants (eg lead)?, concentration of active ingredient (if it can be found)? can it even be isolated from all the other compounds?

are aging or fermentation critical?

is it water extracted, alcohol, not at all, hot extraction, cold extraction, no extraction?

is the herb air dried, mechanically dried or not dried at all? powdered, crushed, chopped?

from mature plant, immature plant, or somewhere in between? anything unique about growth, productivity, climate, soil, altitude, growing region (available only in small area)?

dosage, timing, taper, side effects, contraindications, interactions with foods, liquids or other drugs?

does it need to be alkaline, acid or neural based?

delivery method, absorbed in stomach, intestines, or by vapor?

ultimate production cost?

and, and, and, and...

Herbs have an ancient history of usefulness. I do not mean to disparage that. Anyone heard of kudzu? Just be careful, know what you are taking. The answer is in the science and the science don't come easy.

Regards

Jon
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by Chillrmn1 on Oct 15th, 2006, 7:51am

on 10/13/06 at 01:48:47, BB wrote:
Just a thought :

If some Chinese medicine brew can cure CH, I thought that someone in China would have been a billionaire by now patenting and selling it!


BB -This is not a flame but I disagree with this statement and your thinking on this, but I also consider your posts very intelligent and informative.

Consider the positive responses some sufferers have realized with Kudzu. Consider the positive results that many sufferers have reported efficacy by using LSA hydrolyzed from HBWR and RC seeds, and from psilocybin. Albeit all these are anecdotal reports but these reports come from highly respected people that post in this very forum. All these mentioned above are natural ingredients and by the way I happen to be one that responds to these substances better that any conventional medicines prescribed me by medical professionals. No patents have been applied for the above mentioned.

I'm very open to and like hearing of natural, Chinese or otherwise, herbs, concoctions, whatever others report in providing relief with this disease.

Also very much looking forward to the day when clinical studies will be approved by the government so the "scientific proof" label will be applied to these and further research may be undertaken.

No offense intended, just my 2 cents.

Take care and have a wonderful day!

Edited for spelling.
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by Jonny on Oct 15th, 2006, 8:12am
THERES NO FUCKING CURE!!!!!
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by BB on Oct 15th, 2006, 8:16am

Hi Chilrmmn1,

No offense taken. You are absolutely right. I have overeacted a little bit with that statement. I tend to get a bit over protective when trying to be safe.

I am also very interested in alternative medicine. I have a degree in acupuncture and I practice it regularly in my surgery. I have also used various herbs and natural products myself.

My only caution is : do your homework well and get to know as much as possible about the products and its effects as well as side effects. With prescription medicine, something goes wrong and someone is responsible. With alternative medicine, something goes wrong and you are the only one responsible.

I tried to get the information regarding whats in the brew but unfortunately was unable to.

I am in the process of trying to have it analysed if possible.

Thanks and painfree wishes to you.

Annette
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by Chillrmn1 on Oct 15th, 2006, 8:18am

on 10/15/06 at 08:12:53, Jonny wrote:
THERES NO FUCKING CURE!!!!!


I agree with you Jonny there is no cure. The thread should have been titled differently.
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by thebbz on Oct 15th, 2006, 3:44pm
;)

Quote:
THERES NO FUCKING CURE!!!!!

Well said. I would settle for a decent treatment..
I do wonder about the botanicals. Ancient chinese secret, snakes, and herbs. I'm game let me try all of these at least once.
Snakes and frogs first.
all the best
jb
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by kcopelin on Oct 15th, 2006, 5:07pm
BBZ,
Just remember-you lick the frogs BACK- after you have annoyed it.  Although licking its back might be annoying.  For those who have no idea what we are talking about-or who think we are off topic-I am referring to other potential treatments for clusterheadaches found in nature. Here is a brief summary:
It all began at a CalOUCH meet and Greet when someone mentioned that they saw on the Simpsons something about Homer (a paragon of intellectual curiosity) chasing down and licking toads because they secrete a hallucinogen when annoyed.

If you saw it on the Simpsons it must be true.

In this case...there really are some research projects going on with neuro toxins found in the wild.  Not to be confused with oxymorons found in captivity.

I have found info about the giant monkey frog, who secretes a toxin through his skin when "annoyed" by mild electrical currents.  They are milking these frogs and studying the use of the toxin in treating deep vein thrombosis and some mental health disorders.  Hmmm, very interesting....

There is the golden poison frog.  Never, I repeat, never lick or kiss that one.  Got enough toxin on its skin to kill 8-10 people.  The aboriginal peoples of South America used to rub the tips of their darts on the frog-that way it didn't matter if they were good aims, just had to nick their prey.  The toxin that many of these critters have in common is TTX.  Then there's the blow fish...

So lest anyone get huffy bout this-its not exactly a hijack-just mentioning that there are more things in heaven and on earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy. ( has a nice ring to it, that line.   Must have come from the Simpsons)

And all that aside-there is really still no CURE for CH, and in the service of clarity, perhaps the thread could have been called something else.
Have a groovy, pain free day y'all,
Kathy

edited to add: I realize after reading this that I really sound like a total nerd and should probably get a life.
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by georgej on Oct 15th, 2006, 7:00pm

on 10/15/06 at 17:07:32, kcopelin wrote:
It all began at a CalOUCH meet and Greet when someone mentioned that they saw on the Simpsons something about Homer (a paragon of intellectual curiosity) chasing down and licking toads because they secrete a hallucinogen when annoyed.


Bufotenin, also known as 5-hydroxy-DMT.  It's a tryptamine related to the neurotransmitter, serotonin.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bufotenin

Chemical structure bears a close relationship to that of LSD and psylocybin.  

This is off-topic, though, certainly.  It probably deserves its own toad-licking thread.  
;;D

Best,

George
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by kcopelin on Oct 15th, 2006, 7:59pm
George, my brother, I am somewhat concerned about you...you actually looked this up!?! ;;D [smiley=laugh.gif]
So what say you, another thread?
kathy
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by BB on Oct 15th, 2006, 8:01pm


Kathy,

I am NOT going to test licking toads for you ...  :P


Oops, get that tongue back in !  ;;D


Annette
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by thebbz on Oct 16th, 2006, 8:27pm
;;D
See I knew frogs had some good stuff for the CH.
Still it's a treatment not a cure. The snake one will be fun with the wifey.
:-X Told ya Gueseppi.
jb [smiley=laugh.gif]
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by ghostwriter on Oct 17th, 2006, 7:13pm
Post deleted by poster.
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by BB on Oct 17th, 2006, 9:12pm

Hello Ghostwriter,

Thank you very much for comming back and clarify a few things for us. I can see that you are serious in your claim and not trying to take us for a ride. I appreciate it very much and would like the opportunity to be able to sit and work at this with you seriously if you are prepared to do so.

First of all, I can understand that you took offense to the way your post was responded to. But please take one step back and look at it from our point of view.

Most people are here because they are being hit really bad with CH and are still suffering. They are here because they need the support and the advice that they may not be getting elsewhere. Many people come and go. I have only been here a short time but I have noticed many came, got what they needed and left when their CH was ( temporarily) gone. There are only a few who are committed to helping others that stay around even when they are not in pain, to continue giving support and advice. They stay and provide as much support and care and advice as they can, withstanding at times being flamed and ridiculed. They are the true spirit of the board.

Therefore if your real motive for posting the thread is to help other fellow sufferers then please understand that it is extremely frustrating to read that someone may have a "cure" and then not being able to find out what it is and how to get it to try. Your post would have been welcomed if you had taken the time to learn a bit more about it like what it is, how it works, where to get it and how to prepare it before posting it as a cure.

I believe the best way to approach this now is that you post as much information about it as possible. I suggest

1- Post a pictures of what the herbs look like.
2- Post a copy of the Chinese names of the herbs.
3- Post any English name of the herbs that you may know.
4- Post the weight of each herbs.
5- Post the recipe of how its cooked/prepared.
6- Post the way its advised to be taken, how much, when , how often etc.
7- If you can ask the person in China to write the script exactly as it is then please post that here too, I have Chinese relatives who can read and translate if necessary.

There are many quite savvy people here who are currently doing a lot of research on CH and posssible cures/treatments for it. I am sure they will be more than interested to look at it seriously and try to work it out. Please do not think that you are the only one with an open mind regarding possible cures for the condition. However, its important to know exactly what one is taking. You should trust your wife for sure, but wouldnt you be more cautious if it was suggested by a perfect stranger?

Enough said from me now, sorry about the long post folks! Lets see if we can put our heads together and shine some light on this. Who knows, we might come up with a cure this time ? Lets think positive , shall we?

Painfree wishes to all.

Annette
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by BB on Oct 17th, 2006, 9:17pm


On my part, I will go back to the Chinese herbal store to ask the prescriber to write the names in Chinese , if he would be prepared to do so, then I will post the same here as well, then we can compare the two recipes.

What do you think ? Sounds like a good idea?

Annette
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by Jonny on Oct 17th, 2006, 9:27pm

on 10/17/06 at 19:13:14, ghostwriter wrote:
I believe I entitled this thread correctly. As it states, this is my cure and it is working for me.  I am living it to the fullest just in case he decides to bite me in the ass later.


I guess we can trash the word "Cure" huh?

When you are on your death bed and can say you are still pain free, then we can say its YOUR cure  ;)
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by Cathi04 on Oct 17th, 2006, 9:54pm
SEMANTICS!
That damn C word!!!
There is so much GOOD information in this thread, if we could possibly get off the title, and absorb the meat that is here......oh, my, something could come of this thread!

Instead of shutting Ghostwriter down, can we simply call it....err, let's see Scrabble.....and see if there is HELP inside this concoction??!!

Don't throw the babies out with the bathwater, gang........
keep this thread moving forward. Thank you, BTW, for those who are working to logic this thru.
Remember, you just never know what is around the corner, so keep your eyes peeled!!

Fervently hoping for PFDAN for everyone,
Cathi
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by georgej on Oct 17th, 2006, 9:55pm

on 10/17/06 at 19:13:14, ghostwriter wrote:
I now know why I stopped visiting the site after I registered. This community is supposed to be supportive and friendly according to the site, but that is as accurate as my $2.97 watch from Wal-Mart. Still, I will post the recipe for anyone interested.


Well, good.  And I am interested.  

Look at this from another perspective:  Someone posts that they have a "cure" for CH that involves an herbal melange.  An extraordinary claim that ought to require extraordinary evidence.  But we don't know what's in this herbal brew, and no one else has tried it.  It has not been tested or evaluated in any way.  There is one person who describes it as a "cure", but that's it.  There is no objective information that allows us to even formulate an opinion.
How should this be responded to?  In view of this, I think the responses you received were remarkably civil and friendly.  How are people supposed to be "supportive", if we don't even know what we're talking about here?

Yes, please.  Post the ingredients and other information about this herbal treatment, and any other information you have.  It's the only way that we can discuss this in any productive fashion at all.

As I said in my original response, I'm reserving my opinion about this until I see something comprehensible.  

"Cure" is a large claim for us to swallow.  It requires very strong evidence, and as much information as we can get.

George
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by Charlotte on Oct 17th, 2006, 10:13pm
This is the most responsivbe group you will ever meet.  That is why you had 3 pages going on and I never expected you to come back, at all.

So, welcome back.  Are you interested in us or did you just want to post your statement and leave again?

Charlotte
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by ghostwriter on Oct 17th, 2006, 10:30pm
Post deleted by poster.
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by Charlotte on Oct 17th, 2006, 10:33pm
Do you want to know us?  
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by BB on Oct 17th, 2006, 10:45pm

Ghostwriter,

I cant open your zip file to look at the pics of the herbs.

Can you please just post the pics here ?

Thanks

Annette
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by georgej on Oct 18th, 2006, 12:47am
I've opened your zip files and seen the photos of the herbs your wife uses.  Naturally, I don't know what any of them are.   :)  Will be interested to hear what they are, and will also be interested to see what preparations are involved.

I've taken the liberty of posting the photos here so everyone can see them.  I hope you don't mind. :

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l22/georgeboise/100_0478.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l22/georgeboise/100_0477.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l22/georgeboise/100_0474.jpg

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l22/georgeboise/100_0475.jpg

If you have video to show us, could you post it to a video hosting site as an mpg or wmv?  Thanks.

George
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by Charlotte on Oct 18th, 2006, 2:13am
two things look familiar from other photographs I've seen elsewhere -  the root looks like pictures of ginseng, and the thin flat slices of a starchy tuber-like substance resembles kudzu photos.

Charlotte
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by chopmyheadoff on Oct 18th, 2006, 4:11am
lol just been reading this thread !!

i went to a chinese herbal doctor in desperation about 6 years ago when i was undiagnosed and at the end of my teather !!

He looked at me, and just like bb says he toddled off round his shop filling brown paper bags with sticks and roots.

migrane will never come back he said.
needless to say his shop didnt last long !!
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by ghostwriter on Oct 18th, 2006, 4:30am
Post deleted by poster.
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by Giovanni on Oct 18th, 2006, 4:57am
Thanks for all the hard work :)

What was the amount in grams of the Pinyin?

John
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by Chillrmn1 on Oct 18th, 2006, 5:38am

on 10/17/06 at 21:54:18, Cathi04 wrote:
SEMANTICS!
That damn C word!!!
There is so much GOOD information in this thread, if we could possibly get off the title, and absorb the meat that is here......oh, my, something could come of this thread!

Instead of shutting Ghostwriter down, can we simply call it....err, let's see Scrabble.....and see if there is HELP inside this concoction??!!
Cathi


Great post Cathi, my sentiments exactly. I feel ghostwriter was sharing information on something that he feels helped him with his CH and I thank him for that. My thinking on prescription medications has changed drastically since my successful treatment with clusterbusters, all of which I used being natural ingredients. I am more receptive than ever to believe other plants, fungi, etc., may hold benefits in providing relief from this disease.

So Flo if you will, what's your take on the therapeutic values of these ingredients?

Bob
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by Giovanni on Oct 18th, 2006, 5:59am

on 10/18/06 at 04:57:25, Giovanni wrote:
Thanks for all the hard work :)

What was the amount in grams of the Pinyin?

John



Oops, I see that "Pinyin" is not an herb, but Mandarin phonetic transcription.

John
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by LeeS on Oct 18th, 2006, 12:52pm
Fascinating subject.  I did a quick google on each of the said ingredients.  Can't vouch for the accuracy of each source (which I varied as much as possible), but it's fascinating nonetheless. (Apologies – this is likely to spread over to more than one post).

-Lee


Quote:
chai hu

Medicinal Uses
Alterative; Analgesic; Antibacterial; Antiinflammatory; Antiperiodic; Antipyretic; Antiviral; Carminative; Diaphoretic; Emmenagogue; Haemolytic; Pectoral; Sedative.

Bei chai hu root has been used in traditional Chinese medicine for at least 2,000 years[238]. It is a bitter herb that is used to harmonize the body, balancing the different organs and energies within the body[254]. It strengthens the digestive tract, acts as a tonic for the liver and circulatory system, lowers fevers and has anti-viral effects[238].

The root is alterative, analgesic, antibacterial, anti-inflammatory, antiperiodic, antipyretic, antiviral, carminative, diaphoretic, emmenagogue, haemolytic, hepatic, pectoral, sedative[116, 147, 174. 176, 178, 218, 238, 254]. It is taken internally in the treatment of malaria, blackwater fever, uterine and rectal prolapse, haemorrhoids, sluggish liver, menstrual disorders, abdominal bloating etc[238]. The roots are harvested in the autumn and can be used fresh or dried[238].

The root contains saikosides[254]. These saponin-like substances have been shown to protect the liver from toxicity whilst also strengthening its function, even in people with immune system disorders[254]. These saikosides also stimulate the body's production of corticosteroids and increase their anti-inflammatory affect[254].

Source: http://www.ibiblio.org/pfaf/cgi-bin/arr_html?Bupleurum+chinense&CAN=COMIND



Quote:
bai shao

anti-spastic
lowers blood pressure, dilates peripheral blood vessels, lower resistant
dilates coronary arteries
anticonvulsant, analgesic, sedative effect
antipyretic, anti-inflammatory, antibiotic
neutralizes the carcinogenic effect of aflatoxins

Source: http://alternativehealing.org/bai_shao.htm



Quote:
man jing zi

Main Uses: Treatment of heat and cold between tendons and bones, damp bi
type cramps, brightens the eyes, and strengthens the teeth. It regulates
the nine orifices and expels "bai chong" ["chong" as indicated by the
Chinese character indicates some kind of worm, bug, parasite etc. All I can
find on that is "bai chong bing" in a medical dictionary which translates
as "teniasis" whatever that is.] Prolonged use of this herb can prevent
aging. Both Xiao Jing and Man Jing can treat headache caused by wind,
ringing in the head, lacrimation and benefit qi. It can enliven and
brighten the spirit, and has been said to be able to expel pathogenic qi
and help the hair [head hair] to grow. It has also been said to be able to
free up the joints, treat epilepsy, red eyes, tai yang type headache

It can treat heaviness in the head [and implies some state bordering on
unconsciousness]brighten the eyes, disperse pathogenic wind, cool menstrual
blood, treat aching eyes, soothe liver wind, treat headache caused by wind,
darken head hair and treats mastitis in the early stages.

Source: http://www.chineseherbacademy.org/articles/manjing.shtml



Quote:
Ju Hua

Also Known As:
Florist's Chrysanthemum, Ju Hua, Mum. Anthemis grandiflorum; Anthemis stipulacea; Chrysanthemum morifolium; Chrysanthemum sinense; Chrysanthemum stipulaceum; Dendranthema morifolium; Matricaria morifolia.
Family: Asteraceae or Compositae.

Hua               Properties: SWEET, BITTER   - COOL                    Dosage:4.5 – 15g.

Chrysanthemum Flower  Meridian: LIVER, LUNG

                 -disperse wind, clear heat – headache,  fever
                 -clears liver – red-painful-dry eyes, excessive tearing, floaters
                 -calms liver – dizziness, headache, deafness, blurred vision

Also Used For:

Orally, Ju Hua/Chrysanthemum is used to treat angina, hypertension, type 2 diabetes, fever, cold, headache, dizziness, and swelling.
In combination with other herbs, chrysanthemum is used orally to treat prostate cancer. In combination with licorice (Gan Cao) (Glycyrrhiza uralensis) and (Ren Shen) Panax notoginseng, it is used to treat precancerous lesions.
As a beverage, Ju Hua/Chrysanthemum is very popular as a summertime tea in southern China.

Source: http://tcm.health-info.org/Herbology.Materia.Medica/juhua-properties.htm
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by LeeS on Oct 18th, 2006, 12:55pm

Quote:
chuan xiong

Biological Name: Rhizoma Chuanxiong

Common Name: Szechwan Lovage Rhizome

Description of plant:

A perennial growing to 40-70 cm, with white flowers. Flowers in July-August and bears fruit in August-September. Found in Sichuan, Jiangxi, Hubei, Xiaxi, Gansu, Guizhou and Yunnan.

Part(s) of plant used:
Root.

Key Constituents:
Ferulic acid, 4-hydroxy-3-butylphthalide, senkyunolide, ligustilide, tetramethylpyrazine, chuanxiongol, sedanic acid.

Nature:
Bitter taste, warm in nature.

Key Actions:

Promote flow of blood and qi , dispel wind and relieve pain.
Indications:

Menstrual disorders, amenorrhoea, dysmenorrhoea
Abdominal pain with mass formation
Pricking pain in the chest and costal regions,
Swelling and pain due to traumatic injury
Headache
Rheumatic arthralgia

Source: http://www.heritage.com.sg/monograph/prod28.htm



Quote:
fang feng

Traditional Chinese uses
Resolves the exterior and dispels wind (both wind-heat and wind-cold); dispels wind-damp and alleviates pain; antispasmodic
Traditional Chinese applications
Exterior syndromes, particularly those that involve headache, muscle, or joint pain; itching skin rashes; spasms
Possible unwanted effects
None noted
Herb drug interactions
None reported
TCM and other contraindications
Blood deficiency with spasms; yin deficiency with heat signs
Formulas
Nepeta +12 (Changing Seasons)
Ligusticum +8 (Changing Seasons) Astragalus +2 (Changing Seasons) Eucommia +14 (Older)
Peony +9 (Woman's Health)  

Source: http://www.senhealth.com/vsite/vcontent/page/xmlcontent/0,11740,4822-129108-130416-19197-68231-xmlcontent-item,00.html



Quote:
gan cao

tonifies pi (spleen), enhances qi, clears heat, rids of toxins, expels phlegm and stops cough, stops pain, synergizes other herbs. Being used in spleen and stomach weakness, tired and lack of strength, palpitation and short of breath, cough with abundance of phlegm, stomach and solar plexus pain, spastic painful limbs, boils, to reduce toxicity of other herbs.

Medical Function:
1. adrenocortical hormone function

   As early as 1946 gan cao extract showed the characteristics of mineralcorticoid.

  Glycyrrhiza is metabolically converted to glycyrrhetic acid (GA). GA, when incubated in-vitro with adrenal gland cells increases DHEA production.

2. effects on digestive system

  a. anti ulcer
  b. anti convulsion
  c.  promotes secretion of insulin
  d. protects liver from toxin

3. anti inflammation
4. anti allergy
5. anti cancer
    Saponins stimulate the immune system and inhibit Epstein-Barr virus expression and possess in-vitro (in the test tube) anti-cancer activities. Epstein_Barr virus is associated in certain cancer development. Glycyrrhiza also contains quercetin that has anticancer effects. Glycyrrhiza lowers serum testosterone levels and correspondingly increases estrogen levels by inducing two enzymes called 17-ß-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase and aromatase thus inhibit prostate cancer cells.

6. anti virus and bacteria
  a. anti HIV
  b. anti amoeba and bacteria

7. effect on blood vessels
  a. lower blood lipids

      Both saponins and licoflavones are known to bind to cholesterol and bile acids and have surfactant properties.

Source: http://alternativehealing.org/gan_cao.htm



Quote:
fu ling

Taste: bland
Energy: neutral
Channels: Heart, Spleen, Kidneys.
Actions: drain Dampness, resolve oedema, strengthen the Spleen, calm the Mind.
Indications: urinary difficulty, oedema, "Dampness" in all its manifestations ("it resolves oedema without harming Qi because it is bland and neutral" ), tiredness, poor appetite, loose stools, insomnia.

Pharmacology (Hobbs, 1995)
Polysaccharides have anti-tumour effect
Stimulate phagocytosis
Immuno-stimulating
Antiviral
Anti-mutagenic activity

Source: http://www.phytochemistry.freeserve.co.uk/mushroom/maciocia/fuling.htm



Quote:
shi jue ming

Shi Jue Ming      Properties: SALTY - COLD                                                         Dosage:  9 – 30g.

Abolone Shell                  Meridian: KIDNEY, LIVER

                 -drains liver fire and ascending yang – headache, dizziness, red eyes
                 -liver heat disturbing vision – photophobia, pterygium, visual obstruction

Source: http://tcm.health-info.org/Herbology.Materia.Medica/shijueming-properties.htm



Few! ;;D

-Lee
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by georgej on Oct 18th, 2006, 1:02pm
Many thanks, Lee.

Best wishes,

George
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by BB on Oct 18th, 2006, 1:45pm


Just a note, while Googling the herbs, I came across an article in July 2006 warning against the use of Rhizoma, a particular one called Cimicifugae Racemosae Rhizoma , which is widely used in Chinese medicine, as it has been found to cause quite serious liver toxicity.

In this recipe, there is Chuan Xiong which is Rhizoma Chuanxiong.

Dont know if  Rhizoma Chuan Xiong have the same toxicity or not ?  [smiley=huh.gif]

They are both used for exactly the same thing : Menstrual pain, Headache and Arthralgia ... among other things.

I expect being in the same family they must share the main chemicals ?



European Medicines Agency
Press office
7 Westferry Circus, Canary Wharf, London, E14 4HB, UK
Tel. (44-20) 74 18 84 00 Fax (44-20) 74 18 85 45
E-mail: mail@emea.eu.int www.emea.eu.int
London, 18 July 2006
Doc. Ref.: EMEA/269259/2006


EMEA PUBLIC STATEMENT ON HERBAL MEDICINAL PRODUCTS CONTAINING CIMICIFUGAE RACEMOSAE RHIZOMA (BLACK COHOSH, ROOT)
- SERIOUS HEPATIC REACTIONS -


The European Medicines Agency (EMEA) and the Committee on Herbal Medicinal Products (HMPC) have been made aware of a number of case reports of hepatotoxicity (liver injuries) in patients using Cimicifugae racemosae rhizoma (Black Cohosh, root).
Following review of all available data, the HMPC considered that there is a potential connection between herbal medicinal products containing Cimicifugae racemosae rhizoma (Black Cohosh, root) and hepatotoxicity.
The EMEA therefore wishes to give the following advice to patients and healthcare professionals:
Advice to patients:
• Patients should stop taking Cimicifugae racemosae rhizoma (Black Cohosh, root) and consult their doctor immediately if they develop signs and symptoms suggestive of liver injury (tiredness, loss of appetite, yellowing of the skin and eyes or severe upper stomach pain with nausea and vomiting or dark urine).
• Patients using herbal medicinal products should tell their doctor about it.
Advice to healthcare professionals:
• Health care professionals are encouraged to ask patients about use of products containing Cimicifugae racemosae rhizoma (Black Cohosh, root).
• Suspected hepatic reactions should be reported to the national adverse reaction reporting schemes.
Within the EU, Cimicifugae racemosae rhizoma (Black Cohosh, root) is widely used, sometimes in combination with other plants, in different licensed and unlicensed herbal medicinal products. The licensed products have a wide range of indications but Cimicifugae racemosae rhizoma (Black Cohosh, root) is currently most commonly used to treat minor climacteric (peri- and post-menopausal) symptoms such as hotflushes, sweating, sleep disturbances and nervous tension. In some Member States, Cimicifugae racemosae rhizoma (Black Cohosh, root) is also used in a range of other indications, such as: symptomatic relief of rheumatic pain, cough, stomach cramps, period pains/bloatedness, tenseness/irritability. The number of unlicensed herbal medicinal products containing Cimicifugae racemosae rhizoma (Black Cohosh, root) marketed in the Europe is not known.
The HMPC evaluated 42 case reports of hepatotoxicity, collected from European National Competent Authorities (34 cases) as well as literature case reports (8 cases). Of these, only 16 cases were considered sufficiently documented1 to allow the Committee to assess if use of Cimicifugae racemosae rhizoma (Black Cohosh, root) could be linked to the liver injuries. As a result of the assessment, 5 cases were excluded and 7 cases were considered unlikely to be related. In the remaining 4 cases (2 autoimmune hepatitis, 1 hepatocellular liver injury and 1 fulminant hepatic failure), there was a temporal association
1 Case reports evaluated according to RUCAM score (Roussel UCLAF causality assessment method), a well-established method used to assess cases of hepatotoxicity. [Danan G. and Benichou C. (1993) J Clin Epidemiology Vol.46 (11): 1323-1330] . [Benichou C. et al (1993) J Clin Epidemiology Vol.46 (11): 1331-1336]
between the start of treatment with Cimicifugae racemosae rhizoma (Black Cohosh, root) and the occurrence of hepatic reaction.
The HMPC will continue to review all new safety information relating to this issue and if necessary will release a further updated statement. Further details regarding the case reports are provided in the Annex 1: “Assessment of case reports connected to herbal medicinal product containing Cimicifugae racemosae rhizoma (Black Cohosh, root)”, which can be found here.
For further information contact:
Mr Martin Harvey
Press Office (Tel: +44 20 74 18 86 99, Fax: + 44 20 74 18 84 09) 2/2


Annette
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by seasonalboomer on Oct 18th, 2006, 1:54pm

on 10/18/06 at 13:45:23, BB wrote:
while Googling the herbs


just an aside, but I remember a day when if one my friends would have said he was "googling the herbs" I would have thought he came up with a new word for, well, you know what I mean......  
[smiley=smokin.gif]

scott
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by BB on Oct 18th, 2006, 1:58pm


Scott, welcome to my Annglish !  ;;D


Annette
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by seasonalboomer on Oct 18th, 2006, 1:59pm
"dude, you googled the herb man" -- wasn't that a line from a Cheech and Chong movie?

;;D
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by BB on Oct 18th, 2006, 2:04pm


;;D ! Keep reading my posts, folks ! I will come up with more beauties like that above  8) , guarantee a good laugh at least  ;;D


Annette
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by ghostwriter on Oct 18th, 2006, 3:52pm
Post deleted by poster.
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by floridian on Oct 18th, 2006, 4:26pm

on 10/18/06 at 13:45:23, BB wrote:
Just a note, while Googling the herbs, I came across an article in July 2006 warning against the use of Rhizoma, a particular one called Cimicifugae Racemosae Rhizoma , which is widely used in Chinese medicine, as it has been found to cause quite serious liver toxicity.


Rhizoma means underground stem (rhizome).  Radix is for root.  Flos indicates flower.  The fact that black cohosh rhizome might be associated with a few cases of liver problems doesn't mean that all rhizomes are unsafe - ginger is a rhizome, for example.

From the picture, I would say licorice root, white peony root, and chrysanthemum, plus some other things I don't recognize.

Licorice has corticosteroid like activity - it might bring down the nerve inflammation like prednisone, and might also cause high blood pressure in some people as pred can do - its good to keep an eye on the bp when taking licorice.  I think 5 grams a day of licorice is the concern level, although there is genetic variability. Not sure if the other ingredients could counter-act this tendency of licorice ... they do in some formulas.

Peony and chrysanthemum are milder - Chrysanthemum is another good cooling herb, similar to chamomile in many ways.  The biggest known problem with chrysanthemum is the occasional allergic reaction, which is possible with any food, spice, or cosmetic.  Peony is one ingredient in the anti-CGRP herb formula KBG, mentioned in another thread previously.
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by Giovanni on Oct 18th, 2006, 4:54pm
Question here for anybody.  This quantity:

chai hu     10 (grams)
bai shao   15
man jing zi    12
ju hua      15
chuan xiong  06
fang feng      10
gan cao    03
fu ling       06
shi jue ming  30


Makes 10 seperate brews (cups) that can be used twice.........right?

John

BTW Ghostwriter.  If I croak no one will sue....the meds should have killed me a long time ago.

I for one appreciated your time putting this together.
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by Chillrmn1 on Oct 18th, 2006, 5:42pm

on 10/18/06 at 16:54:33, Giovanni wrote:
I for one appreciated your time putting this together.


Same here Ghostwriter and I wish you continued painfree time.

I am saving this recipe for future use. Any other sufferers trying this please report your results.  

Thanks & PFDANS To All!
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by rhino on Oct 24th, 2006, 9:36pm
Gostwriter
 You got a wife that cannot talk to you, that is really cool. I am trying to imagin how it would be around my house.
 You got to be one very smart guy.
 
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by ghostwriter on Nov 9th, 2006, 4:22pm
Post deleted by poster.
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by Giovanni on Nov 9th, 2006, 4:53pm
As a footnote here.  I have tried the Ghostwriter's brew and so far so good.  It's too early for me to proclaim victory--don't want to jinx myself or give others false hope.  

I will give a report in a couple of weeks when the time is appropriate.

Thanks Ghostwriter.

John  :)
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by Chillrmn1 on Nov 9th, 2006, 5:15pm
Giovanni,

Where or what kind of store were you able to purchase the ingredients?

Thanks,

Bob

Edit to add: Reason I ask is I don't have any chinese shops in my local area.
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by Giovanni on Nov 9th, 2006, 5:39pm

on 11/09/06 at 17:15:48, Chillrmn1 wrote:
Giovanni,

Where or what kind of store were you able to purchase the ingredients?

Thanks,

Bob

Edit to add: Reason I ask is I don't have any chinese shops in my local area.


Bob

I used the store that was recommended by Floridian in his cluster headache book--the one he uses.
http://www.med-owl.com/clusterheadaches/tiki-index.php?page=Keishi-bukuryo-gan  

I hope you folks don't mind me posting the web site?

Anyway, I do not have any financial connections with this organization.

http://www.healingwatersclinic.com/

I found that the herbs are really fresh and appears to be of good quality.  Their prices are very competitive and service good.  The one ingredient that was changed was mother-of-pearl was substitued for Ablone.  The people there said it had the same properties.  It cost me about $50 and enough to make 3 gallons of the brew.  You could probably cut the order that I made in half and have plenty.  I used a gram scale to measure out the proper ratios to make one quart of the brew.

The formula there is in my name in order to expedite future orders.  I will P.M. you my name.
You'll need to call them instead of email if you're interested.

John
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by Chillrmn1 on Nov 9th, 2006, 6:01pm
John,

Thanks for sharing the info.

Bob
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by ghostwriter on Nov 10th, 2006, 2:29pm
Post deleted by poster.
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by Giovanni on Nov 10th, 2006, 5:46pm

on 11/10/06 at 14:29:58, ghostwriter wrote:
My wife got the herbs from china from her sister. Don't ask how she got them through customs, I didn't ask and never will. LOL.

Good luck to all!

Note to moderator: If possible, change the thread title to my ch treatment instead of using the C word, maybe that will satisfy those put off ny my choice of title.


Ghostwriter,

Perhaps you can start a new thread in a couple weeks--at that time I can add my report.

Hope my good fortunes continue  :P

pf/

John  :)
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by ghostwriter on Jan 20th, 2007, 5:20am
Post deleted by poster.
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by froggy on Jan 20th, 2007, 1:55pm
Thank you for starting this thread.
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by kcopelin on Jan 21st, 2007, 10:18am
Thank you!  
Wishing you continuous pain free time!
kathy
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by BB on Jan 21st, 2007, 9:53pm

on 01/20/07 at 05:20:31, ghostwriter wrote:
Post deleted by poster.



What happened ? ???  [smiley=huh.gif]  [smiley=huh.gif]

Ghost writer went back in and deleted every single one of his posts ????

Annette
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by brewcrew on Jan 21st, 2007, 10:01pm
Couldn't stand the heat, so he got out of the kitchen, I guess.
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by BB on Jan 21st, 2007, 10:32pm

He didnt need to delete ALL the posts though as some people would like to read the information.

Furthermore from what I can see here, after he came back and posted on 20/01 he got two thank you replies and no flame so where did the heat come from ?

[smiley=huh.gif]


Annette
Title: Re: My Cluster Cure
Post by brewcrew on Jan 22nd, 2007, 7:15am

on 01/21/07 at 22:32:20, BB wrote:
He didnt need to delete ALL the posts though as some people would like to read the information.

Furthermore from what I can see here, after he came back and posted on 20/01 he got two thank you replies and no flame so where did the heat come from ?

[smiley=huh.gif]


Annette

I was being a bit sarcastic, Annette. I don't know what motivates people sometimes.


Clusterheadaches.com Message Board » Powered by YaBB 1 Gold - SP 1.3.1!
YaBB © 2000-2003. All Rights Reserved.