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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Cluster Headache Specific >> Clusters and sleep apnea
        
(Message started by: big_guy on Aug 27^th, 2006, 10:12am)

Title: Clusters and sleep apnea
Post by big_guy on Aug 27^th, 2006, 10:12am

I haven't mentioned it before but in addition to clusters I also have obstructive sleep apnea, and I am supposed to use a cpap machine. Are there other CH sufferers that also have OSA? If so, do you find as I do that the cpap is unbearable during your cycle? Almost as soon as I put on the cpap I get a shadow and not willing to see if it gets worse I take off the cpap. Since most of my CH are at night my sleep is often interupted, and without the cpap the time I do sleep is not quality sleep.
Just wondered if others share this combo and if they have any insights.

wishing pain free lives to all

Big Guy

Title: Re: Clusters and sleep apnea
Post by BobG on Aug 27^th, 2006, 2:22pm

I do not suffer apnea but some folks here have reported that they do. I'm not a doctor and I can't say if there is a connection between the two but lean toward the side that says no connection.
Someone with your condition will be along soon with better info.

Title: Re: Clusters and sleep apnea
Post by Garys_Girl on Aug 27^th, 2006, 2:58pm

Actually, Doctors do think there's a connection between sleep apnea and cluster headaches. In a study that was published in Neurology magazine in 2000, it was shown that 80% of people with CH suffer from some form of sleep apnea. Before the study, none of the CHers knew they had any problem with sleep apnea.

More info:

http://www.talkaboutsleep.com/sleep-disorders/archives/Snoring_apnea_cluster.htm

http://www.respiratoryreviews.com/sep00/rr_sep00_clusterheadaches.html

Sleep apnea is a very serious condition that many, like hubby who has it (not diagnosed, but he constantly stops breathing during his sleep (literally, though his lungs still go in and out like he's breathing, but no air goes in) - and constantly wakes himself back up from starting to breathe again), do not take seriously. However, he isn't aware it's happening - just knows he wakes up a lot when he manages to get some sleep.

Untreated sleep apnea increases your risk of heart attacks, high blood pressure, heart disease, and it increases your risk of stroke by 80% - among other things.

I'm sorry to hear the CPAP machine seems like it's going to trigger an attack. I would have thought the continuous air would help with the CH problem. I wonder if there's any way to have a higher mix of oxygen or something? I don't know anything about those machines, but I would definitely discuss it with the Doc.

Laurie

Title: Re: Clusters and sleep apnea
Post by big_guy on Aug 27^th, 2006, 7:20pm

I don't know about a connection between apnea and CH. I have had clusters most of my life, except for me just ended 19 year remission, during which I was diagnosed with apnea. I think a lot of people have undiagnosed apnea. I was diagnosed with sleep apnea about 5 years ago and the treatment (constant positive airway pressure or cpap) made a huge difference in my quality of life. If you think you might have apnea, get treated. Since this is my first cluster since starting on cpap, it has been a new experience. The pressure into my nose does feel like it might start a CH, and since a cluster headache is a lot worse in the short term, I have been going without the cpap. As soon as my clusters are under control, i'll be back on the cpap

Big Guy

Title: Re: Clusters and sleep apnea
Post by BlueMeanie on Aug 27^th, 2006, 7:42pm

on 08/27/06 at 14:58:10, Garys_Girl wrote:

In a study that was published in Neurology magazine in 2000, it was shown that 80% of people with CH suffer from some form of sleep apnea.

Did they say what percentage of those 80% are either overweight, or have a large percent of bodyfat ? I had the sleep study done and the guy thought I was crazy because I have 4% bodyfat. He said there was no way I could have sleep apnea. I did wake a few times during the night, but apnea is not diagnosed until you have so many wake ups during the test.

Apnea is no more than a block of the airway when laying on your back while sleeping. The large mass of weight in your throat closes off the air passage while you sleep. It has nothing to do with Cluster Headaches in my opinion. If you are overweight and suspect apnea, you should definately get it checked out though.

Title: Re: Clusters and sleep apnea
Post by big_guy on Aug 27^th, 2006, 8:08pm

Sleep apnea is most often found in overweight people like myself, but I have met many people with sleep apnea and some were very thin, so being thin is no guarantee.
I didn't mean to get off on a discussion of sleep apnea, only wondered if anyone else had a similar experience

Big Guy

Title: Re: Clusters and sleep apnea
Post by BlueMeanie on Aug 27^th, 2006, 8:55pm

Hi Big Guy,

I was just pointing the apnea/Cluster correlation out because many have thought it may be the cause of CH's. That's why I had the test done just to rule it out. You know us Clusterheads, we'll try just about anything. ;)

Have you tried sleeping in a more upright position ? Most of the attacks occur while relaxed and horizontal. While in cycle, sleeping in a recliner seems to help alot. Just a thought.

Title: Re: Clusters and sleep apnea
Post by big_guy on Aug 27^th, 2006, 9:23pm

Hey BlueMeanie,
Yes I have. I've been sleeping in a recliner for several nights.
it does seem to help

PFDAN

Big Guy

Title: Re: Clusters and sleep apnea
Post by brewcrew on Aug 28^th, 2006, 1:31pm

I have both severe sleep apnea and CH (and not grossly overweight either - 5'11", 200 lbs. Okay, some of you might think that's grossly overweight!). My pulmonologist and I were extremely hopeful that treating the OSA would have a positive effect on the CH, but alas, no dice.

Even though when in mid-cycle I will be awakened 90 minutes after I fall asleep, I would never even consider not using my CPAP. I've moved up to the nasal pillows, which I find to be by far the most comfortable of the available apparatus. The CPAP has given me most of my life back (CH is still holding the rest hostage). You see, during my sleep study I was found to be waking myself to reinitiate breathing an average of 33 times per hour. No wonder I was such a zombie for so many years.

In examining my airway, my doc said that I had one of the narrowest openings she's ever seen. It wouldn't take a lot of body fat to close that sucker off. This could explain the few skinny folk that have diagnosed OSA (although I am admittedly not one of them).

Anyhoo, back to the question - I would never consider NOT using my CPAP. I don't find a connection between the two, and I've reaped so many benefits from it that I can't fathom going to sleep without it.

Bill

Title: Re: Clusters and sleep apnea
Post by paulc on Aug 28^th, 2006, 3:31pm

Has anyone with sleep anpnea asked their docs about prescribing a mild sleep drug to get you through the night? Just thinking out loud. J don't have sleep apnea, but do have chronic Ch and I sometimes use one to help me get through most of the night, like 4 or 5 hours, but limit my useage so that my body doesn't build up a tolerance too quickly. Oh how I long for those pre-CH days when I was a teenager and could sleep for 12 hours, non-stop ::)!

Title: Re: Clusters and sleep apnea
Post by brewcrew on Aug 28^th, 2006, 3:49pm

Treatment of apnea isn't just about sleeping through the night - it's about eliminating the problem in the first place and eliminating the health risks associated with it. Here's one way to look at it: Would Reggie White be alive today if he had taken a sleeping pill on Christmas night? No. All the really harmful aspects of OSA would still be present - elevated blood pressure, risk of heart attack, risk or stroke, etc.

Getting a decent night's sleep is merely the end byproduct of addressing a constantly collapsing airway. The more important byproduct is not being dead.

Does that make sense?

By the way - I often take 25-50mg of generic Benadryl as a sleep aid. Cheap, and works like a charm. But I ALWAYS use my CPAP.

Title: Re: Clusters and sleep apnea
Post by paulc on Aug 28^th, 2006, 4:03pm

on 08/28/06 at 15:49:43, brewcrew wrote:

Thanks for the information-I didn't realize all of the serious medical aspects of sleep apnea.

Title: Re: Clusters and sleep apnea
Post by big_guy on Aug 29^th, 2006, 5:52am

Hey Brewcrew,

I went back to using my cpap last night. I still got my early morning hit but the time I did sleep was much better. Thanks for the encouragement to get back to using the cpap. Sleep apnea and CH both. Sux doesn't it.

Big Guy

Title: Re: Clusters and sleep apnea
Post by brewcrew on Aug 29^th, 2006, 7:54am

on 08/29/06 at 05:52:21, big_guy wrote:

Good for you, Big Guy! I always remind myself that the time I'll sleep will be better with the CPAP, and since I've found no connection between the two, I should try to get some meaningful sleep, even if it is shortened by CH.

Re: having both OSA and CH, I keep telling myself that it's better than a sharp stick in the eye (wait....one of them IS like a sharp stick in the eye!) - okay, bad analogy. The point is that there are others who have it worse than I do, so I need to suck it up a bit. But yes, it does blow. I see many happy-go-lucky idiots who cannot fully appreciate what it means to get a good night's sleep, night after night.