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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Cluster Headache Specific >> SMOKING AND CH
        
(Message started by: BB on Aug 20^th, 2006, 12:41am)

Title: SMOKING AND CH
Post by BB on Aug 20^th, 2006, 12:41am

Its a well known fact that most CH sufferers are smokers. My DH has been a smoker since his teenage years and he usually smokes anywhere between 5 to 50 a day. I am a non smoker.

Since being diagnosed with CH, he was advised by the nuerologist to stop smoking but he is finding it extremely difficult to do so. Apart from the nicotine withdrawal, its his only vice for relaxation so to speak.

Is anyone here a non smoker or has anyone managed to quit/stop smoking with CH and whether it has made a difference?

Smoking doesnt seem to trigger an attack with my DH but I wonder whether it has a more subtle effect?

Thanks for your input, much appreciated.

Painfree wishes to you all.

Take care.

Annette

Title: Re: SMOKING AND CH
Post by georgej on Aug 20^th, 2006, 2:47am

Hi again, Annette.

A large proportion, if not a majority, of CH'rs are smokers. But I wonder if smoking is a contributing factor, or perhaps it's something that CH'rs naturally gravitate towards. Nicotine is a potent vasoconstrictor, after all.

As for myself, yes, I smoke--moderately. At most, 10 cigs a day. But my CH started years before I started smoking. I remember that when I started, I was twenty--much later than most smokers start. I embraced it from the start. I'd like to quit, though, and I think that most likely now would be the best time to do it. I'm not expecting another cycle until 2009. I cycled this spring. I cannot quit in cycle, so it's best I do it fairly soon. I'm nerving myself up for it. ;)

Urk. Just thought of this, but I hope quitting doesn't trigger a cycle. It makes me a little paranoid.

As Mark Twain said, "Quitting smoking is easy. I've done it hundreds of times."

If I do it and post about it here, expect a certain amount of weirdness from me for about 48 hours....

Best,

George

Title: Re: SMOKING AND CH
Post by BB on Aug 20^th, 2006, 2:59am

Hi George,

I am glad that you are now PF and I hope that the next cycle wont come for a loooong time, way past 2009 if at all possible.

Its interesting that you werent smoking when your CH started and thanks for letting me know that nicotine is a vasoconstrictor, didnt know that before. I will research more into it then.

I wonder if you are right in that CHers actually ( maybe even unknowingly ) enjoy smoking because nicotine vasoconstricts and so helps clear a few low grade headaches/shadows ? In that case, maybe the neuro should have looked into the pharmacokinetic of it more before advising my DH to quit.

I honestly dont think he can quit now being in the middle of the cycle. He tried but the stress and the withdrawal on top of the attacks are just too much atm.

I will research more into the topic and post here if I find something interesting.

Please share anyone , any thoughts/ideas on this, much appreciated.

Painfree wishes to you all.

Annette

Title: Re: SMOKING AND CH
Post by aka. Jobette on Aug 20^th, 2006, 4:20am

I have heard that there are alot of "Smokin Clusterhead" and I can believe it because I am one. My dr has said that I should quit and so has alot of other people, but now IS NOT the time, because I feel like I need them.
Melissa ::)

Title: Re: SMOKING AND CH
Post by BB on Aug 20^th, 2006, 4:56am

Hello Melissa,

Did you start smoking before or after being diagnosed with CH ?

Just curious to see what is the link between the two.

Annette

Title: Re: SMOKING AND CH
Post by aka. Jobette on Aug 20^th, 2006, 6:02am

Before. 8) In highschool. I never had a headache back then, but as I think I has several earaches.? This thing is like being married for 20 + yrs and still just finding out about him! :-/

Title: Re: SMOKING AND CH
Post by big_guy on Aug 20^th, 2006, 6:14am

I am a CHer and never smoked however my father smoked so I did grow up with second hand smoke and later had friends that smoked so was exposed at least some to smoke.

Big Guy

Title: Re: SMOKING AND CH
Post by BB on Aug 20^th, 2006, 7:48am

Apparently its the nicotine that has something to do with CH as it binds to a receptor in the hypothalamus similar to the 5HT receptors and releases dopamine as well as serotonin, so I am not sure if passive smoking would carry the same "risk factors" as active smoking, if cigarette smoking can be considered as a risk factor for developing CH ?

Annette

Title: Re: SMOKING AND CH
Post by Charlotte on Aug 20^th, 2006, 10:57am

I've never been a smoker. I tried it but it didn't do anyting for me after I got used to being dizzy. (Yes, I've always enjoyed being dizzy.)

My Dad is not a smoker, but my mom & adopted father were, and I usually have friends who are, married a guy who was but quit, and every once in awhile I ask someone to exhale in my direction and, you know, they just can't.

I think quitting smoking would be the worst thing to do, right now. It can't be any worse than the medication most of us take.

Charlotte

Title: Re: SMOKING AND CH
Post by BobG on Aug 20^th, 2006, 12:52pm

I've been reading this board for a few years now and have never seen anything that connects smoking with cluster headaches. Good or bad.

But, for all of us that do smoke it would be best if we all quit.

Tommorrow.

Title: Re: SMOKING AND CH
Post by DavidEH on Aug 20^th, 2006, 1:55pm

I've been a smoker since I was 19...

I got my first reconizable ch hit when I was 24 (2 years ago).

If my math is correct, and believe me since I'm in cycle now, my brain is on vacation, thats 5 years of smoking before a reconizable class 10 kipper cluster hit. If smoking causes them, it took awhile...

So in short, I am smoker. I will say that I try to cut down during cycle... I do experience shadows after smoking a cig..

Title: Re: SMOKING AND CH
Post by aka. Jobette on Aug 20^th, 2006, 9:22pm

I try not to have to defend my smoking because we are people of free choose. But when in a cycle that really is not an option to me. As a matter of fact I smoke more while in a cycle. You hear alot about smokers and second hand smoke, but the very air that we breathe is contaminated. And as Charlotte said, it can't be any worse than the meds that we are taking. :-/

Title: Re: SMOKING AND CH
Post by BB on Aug 20^th, 2006, 10:25pm

My DH definitely smokes more during his cycle. When out of cycle he can be quite happy with 5 cugs a day but during cycle he would need to smoke up to 50 a day although its usually about 20.

He says its his only vice for relaxation.

I guess we will just have to ignore the neuro advice to stop smoking now and address it later once he is out of cycle.

So far, it doesnt sound like smoking does much to CH at least not in the short term or as a trigger.

Annette

Title: Re: SMOKING AND CH
Post by aka. Jobette on Aug 21^st, 2006, 12:34am

If he only smokes 5 in a day he seems to be in control of this BAD habit, and could probably quit if he had to, but... I do find that my cigarette kind of calms me down after the battle. [smiley=huh.gif]
These things take alot out of you before during and after, and it does not compare to an after sex smoke (ha ha) ;;D it is better after a CH.
As for the docs, I think that it is easier for them to say for you to quit smoking because that is the one thing that they can see that is wrong in their eyes, but why can't they tell us where this thing comes from and help us to stop THE PAIN? ::)

Title: Re: SMOKING AND CH
Post by BB on Aug 21^st, 2006, 2:27am

Next time we go to see the neuro I will ask him if there is any medical evidence whether smoking cigs does anything bad for CH or was it he just told my DH to stop smoking because its the "right " thing to do.

Gee, I think the neuro is not going to like me much :P

Annette

Title: Re: SMOKING AND CH
Post by Jobette on Aug 21^st, 2006, 4:00am

Sometimes my neuro probably doesn't like me much either :-/, but as long as they make me think that they are trying to help me that is all that matters, but just think about it [smiley=huh.gif], it is their job to tell us not to smoke, drink or overeat, but if you go to their houses you will find smokers, drinkers, and people just like us, people with issues.
If it were the cigs causing the headaches would not there be more of us. Do people not think, that if we thought it were the cigarettes that causes these headaches, that we would throw these cigarettes down never to pick them up again? :P
My husband stays on me about chocolate, and to humor him I stayed away from my favorite treat :( but when we found that I would get the headaches anyway, he felt more hopeless than me. It is great that your husband has you to help him try and fight this beast called CLUSTER HEADACHES. ;;D
Keep up the good work.

Title: Re: SMOKING AND CH
Post by chopmyheadoff on Aug 21^st, 2006, 4:09am

i have a damn good neuro who actually does know more than me about ch.

and he said that although smoking may be related to the onset of CH - giving up would unfortunately have no impact at all on the CH.

sorry to be the bearer of bad news =/

althiough giving up would be a good idea anyway :P

chop

Title: Re: SMOKING AND CH
Post by Jobette on Aug 21^st, 2006, 5:38am

Have your headaches changed any since you quit smoking? [smiley=huh.gif]

Title: Re: SMOKING AND CH
Post by Charlotte on Aug 21^st, 2006, 7:56am

Annette, there is no need to antongonize a neurologist. If he asks if DH quit, nicely tell him it caused more stress so DH is waiting to quit. Then nicely ask if he has statistics that actually prove quitting smoking would help and continue to be your lovely, caring self when he says no. If he says yes, please share with us here, but I am sure it will be no. Then continue on with whatever you need from the neurologist and dont let him or her stop on that point.

Address it when the neuro brings it up. Don't let the neuro use it as an excuse or stopping point.

Good luck to you & DH, sweetheart.

Charlotte

Title: Re: SMOKING AND CH
Post by BB on Aug 21^st, 2006, 8:17am

Thank you very much Charlotte, :-*

Actually we are thinking of changing neurologist. He is a nice man but he doesnt seem to know much about CH. I had to suggest to him the use of 02 and the non rebreather mask after reading about it here , he knew about them but didnt think to tell us!

The problem is we dont know which neurologist is a good one for CH. There is no headache centre or CH centre in Sydney so we may need to do the round to find one with CH experience. Bit frustrating while DH is suffering 3-4 hits KIP 9-10 per day waiting for the right medication regiment to work.

Thank you all and painfree wishes to everyone, for both physical pain as well as emotional pain.

Annette

Title: Re: SMOKING AND CH
Post by chopmyheadoff on Aug 21^st, 2006, 9:58am

what meds does he use at the moment ??

chop

Title: Re: SMOKING AND CH
Post by seasonalboomer on Aug 21^st, 2006, 10:11am

I quit 9 years ago. Never saw a noticeable difference in my CH after quitting although I can tell you that being a nonsmoker does feel better in SO many ways.

I would offer you this perspective on the doc. If I went to the dentist and they started to tell me not to worry about flossing if it would be easier to skip that step of your dental care each day, I would question whether my dentist hadn't lost his marbles. (I hate flossing).

In the same respect, any doctor, upon reading a chart that says you're a smoker, should be run out of town if he doesn't at least find a reason to tell you to quit. It's not good for your health.

that's all.

Scott

Title: Re: SMOKING AND CH
Post by Bob_Johnson on Aug 21^st, 2006, 11:00am

No comment needed:

Title: Global Study Shows All Tobacco Bad for The Heart

"Global Study Shows All Tobacco Bad for The Heart"

HAMILTON, CANADA -- August 18, 2006 -- A major Canadian-led global study has found all forms of tobacco exposure, whether that be smoking, chewing or inhaling second hand smoke, increase the risk of heart attack. The study by professors Salim Yusuf and Koon Teo of the Michael G. DeGroote School of Medicine at McMaster University and Hamilton Health Sciences in Hamilton, is published in this week's issue of The Lancet. In collaboration with colleagues from 52 countries, they calculated the risk of heart attack for various forms of active tobacco use (both smoking and non-smoking) and second hand smoking in all areas of the world. The INTERHEART study included data from more than 27,000 people in 52 countries. In their calculations, the investigators accounted for other lifestyle factors that could affect the heart attack risk, such as diet and age. They found that tobacco use in any form, including sheesha smoking popular in the Middle East and beedie smoking common in South Asia, was harmful. Compared to people who had never smoked, smokers had a three-fold increased risk of a heart attack. Even those with relatively low levels of exposure of eight to 10 cigarettes a day doubled their risk of heart attack. Each cigarette smoked per day, increased the risk by 5.6%. However, the researchers did find that the risk of heart attack decreased with time after stopping smoking. Light smokers, those who consume fewer than 10 cigarettes a day, benefit the most. They have no excess risk three to five years after quitting. By contrast, moderate and heavy smokers of 20 or more cigarettes a day still had an excess risk of around 22%, 20 years after quitting.

Title: Re: SMOKING AND CH
Post by Sandy_C on Aug 21^st, 2006, 1:51pm

I started smoking while in college, because "everybody did it". I had my first ever in my life CH at the ripe old age of 53, (you do the math) so nobody will ever convince me that smoking CAUSES CH.

Your DH has enough to worry about right now while he's in cycle. Trying to stop smoking now, in my opinion, will not stop his CH cycle, won't even make a difference in the levels of his hits. To go through a CH cycle is bad enough but why add the pain of withdrawal to the mix right now? For me, after a 30 minute visit in sheer Hell, a cigarette calms me back down, relaxes me, and actually helps to warm me back up (during hit - I'm hotter than a pancake - right after hit - I'm an ice cube)

When his cycle is done, of course, he should try to quit smoking - we all should - and we all know this - it's just not good for you.

But even when he is smoke free, he most probably will still have CH.

Two cents!

Sandy

Title: Re: SMOKING AND CH
Post by E-Double on Aug 21^st, 2006, 2:12pm

I've had clusters while a smoker and when I was not.

In fact when my current cycle began over 2 yrs ago, I was trying to quit.

Cya off to grab a butt ;;D

Title: Re: SMOKING AND CH
Post by Sandy_C on Aug 21^st, 2006, 5:29pm

on 08/21/06 at 14:12:48, E-Double wrote:

I've had clusters while a smoker and when I was not.

In fact when my current cycle began over 2 yrs ago, I was trying to quit.

Cya off to grab a butt ;;D

Grab a butt???
;;D ;;D ;;D ;;D And what kind of butt might that be, may we politely, and oooh so discretely ask?

When you get back, you got some splainin to do!

Sandy

Title: Re: SMOKING AND CH
Post by mr.c on Aug 21^st, 2006, 9:28pm

I find it interesting that many people said that taking imitrex was bad for people with heart problems...

However, when I looked at the pictures from the convention and matched faces with names. Many of the faces with cigarettes also are people that have mentioned heart problems...

Just an observation...

There are other vasoconstrictors that won't kill you.

Title: Re: SMOKING AND CH
Post by Charlotte on Aug 21^st, 2006, 9:44pm

O2

but it doesn't work for every one, I hear. and smoking does not cause ch or half my relatives would have it.

Title: Re: SMOKING AND CH
Post by BB on Aug 21^st, 2006, 10:49pm

My DH is on prednisone ( tapering ), verapamil and just starting on lithium. He uses 02 and imigran to abort. 02 is good but recently imigran doesnt seem to work quite as quickly as it used to, even the injections.

I read that nicotine binds to a receptor similar to 5HT and releases dopamine, similar to what serotonin does, but no one seems to know what does that mean in relation to CH.

What concerns me though is that smoking increases risk of heart disease and heart disease will prevent one from being able to use various medications for CH.

I guess I will leave DH's smoking alone for now and then try to encourage him to stop it once the cycle finishes, if not for CH then for other health risks.

Thank you all for your input. Much appreciated.

Annette