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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Cluster Headache Specific >> Two Stage Hit?
        
(Message started by: georgej on Aug 9^th, 2006, 9:54pm)

Title: Two Stage Hit?
Post by georgej on Aug 9^th, 2006, 9:54pm

While wading through the swamp over in Re: Clusters (sorry about your thread, Hank) I did stumble across something interesting and somewhat familiar. BB wrote:

>>What we have come to notice though that he has 2 types of attacks.

One is the classical CH which starts either on the back of his head or behind his left ear, he tells me it starts out like someone using a hand drill on his skull and slowly drilling through. At this point he could stay relatively still, whether sitting or lying. Once the drill is through the skull into his brain, which takes only a min or two , it picks up the speed and the intensity very very quickly , especially if the shadow comes too, then it drills very fast through his brain into the back of his left eye, pushing it out and at the same time setting fire to his eye and the left side of his brain. By this stage he is on the floor, can not stand or sit , rolling and screaming through clenched teeth, sweating profusely. Thank God an Imgran ( Imitrex ) injection can stop it fairly quickly.

The other type is a little bit slower. It starts out as if someone punches him really really hard on the left temple and on his left eye, making his eye all watery and blurry, then no drilling but the burning starts inside the brain and behind the left eye. The fire gets hotter and hotter together with a vice like grip that tightens around his head, as if someone trying to crack his skull open, all the while his left brain and left eye were burning. With this one he could lie down a little bit longer until the fire is hot enough and the vice grip tight enough for him to again starts rolling and cursing and hyperventilate.

We discussed the two with our neurologist and were told that both are CH, it depends on the level of inflammation of the trigeminal nerves that which one he would be experiencing.<<

George again.

I get long "dirty" hits.

I've noticed something like this in the center of my cycle--a hit will start high on the head and behind the eye, radiating across my temple and down the back of my neck where it settles into a knot at the base of my neck. Tears, snot, sweat, etc. You know the drill. This will go on for a while, peaking a couple of times, then a second stage will occur.

It's like a fist that strikes just above the zygomatic arch, below my eye, then it explodes into the stuff going on behind my eye, and it extends straight back until it meets the pain radiating down the back of my neck. I don't know how to explain it, other than to say it's "deeper" and "lower" than the first pain.

Several more peaks, complete with new rounds of tears and assorted wet stuff, and the first pain subsides. The second, lower, and deeper pain continues by itself for awhile, then dissipates. Usually leaving a shadow.

There's my private hell in a nutshell.

Has anyone else noticed this two-stage process? I haven't seen it discussed, but then again, I haven't read the posts from years ago, either.

Hope you didn't mind me quoting you to start a new thread, BB.

Best wishes,

George

Title: Re: Two Stage Hit?
Post by Sean_C on Aug 9^th, 2006, 11:20pm

My clusters don't happen in that way but thats just me. My cluster 90% of the time begins in my gums, then teeth, then nose, then eye, then temple, which all basically happens within seconds of each other. I've had tension in the back of my neck but I think that was stress related due to the attack.

I have never felt like I was "punched" in the eye when a hit began, although I have had my eye almost closed from the attack itself. The closest I can relate personally from that analogy iss I've had attacks come almost instantly, maybe minutes into a kip 8. I also have no drilling, I definately don't feel the drill.

Give it time, others will post George ;)

Cheers,

Sean....................................

Title: Re: Two Stage Hit?
Post by MJ on Aug 9^th, 2006, 11:53pm

Hi George and BB

Pardon my ignorance here but this thread confuses me a bit.

BB's description of a classical CH does not seem correct and personally I never experience back of head pain. Knowing that we are all different hopefully someone can set me straight on this.

The other type seems more CH to me but it sounds odd.

Question, are the occipital and trigeminal nerve clusters considered one and the same as it seems both are in play with BB??

George as far as 2 stage clusters yes at times and either radiating into or from the neck are not uncommon.
This is where I say my blood hurts deep inside. Its hard to describe as a separate event.

For me a hit generally gives very little warning and usually last 1-2 hrs.

I must say I havent had a hit in a few months now so I dont totally remember how it feels its just something I have to block out.

Title: Re: Two Stage Hit?
Post by kevinpix on Aug 10^th, 2006, 10:47am

I believe the tn nerve goes from the temple down the jaw line down to the lip area. For me, it feels like a freezing cold ice pick going into my temple, slowly and preceisly. Then it feels like one hair being pulled out at the same time, a kind of pulling and pressure together. Then, the pain takes hold and I have only minutes to get oxygen and ice packs. The ocular nerve is more around the back of the eye, and it too is affected during a hit. Feels like it's going to pop out! Hope all goes well with you, keep us posted!!!

Title: Re: Two Stage Hit?
Post by Tattoo on Aug 10^th, 2006, 3:48pm

I went for my first month or so with what has been called a normal CH .But for the last week or so the HA went away for almost three days but they are back . Any ways the HA I had last night was sorta like the 2 stage you wrote about . I found myself walking downtown at 3 am untill it hit again so hard I almost had to lay down on the sidewalk . The only thing that kept me walking was the fear of a policeman with his VERY bright lights stoping me to ask if I was drunk .
I hope everything works out for you painfree wishes

Ron

Title: Re: Two Stage Hit?
Post by georgej on Aug 10^th, 2006, 3:52pm

on 08/10/06 at 15:48:20, Tattoo wrote:

I hope everything works out for you painfree wishes

Ron

Thanks for askin', Ron, but I'm fine. I'm out of cycle right now, and should be for quite a while. Something about BB's post rang a bell, and I'm just following up on it.

Best,

George

Title: Re: Two Stage Hit?
Post by BB on Aug 11^th, 2006, 7:06am

Hi George,

Sorry I havent been here for a couple of days as my DH has had a couple of bad days where the attacks were more severe.

And yes he is still getting the 2 types of attacks, sometimes separately but sometimes together in 2 stages as you described.

He says that the drilling and pushing of the eyeball is more intense painwise but the pressure and burning is more deep and much harder to cope with.

Imigran ( Imitrex ) injections always stop the drilling fairly quickly but the pressure and burning can go on for another 15 mins to 1 hr.

Does anybody else experience this?

Annette

Title: Re: Two Stage Hit?
Post by Thomas_Martin on Aug 14^th, 2006, 3:19pm

on 08/11/06 at 07:06:46, BB wrote:

hey annette.

My CH hits mainly where the jaw connects to the skull. Only if it goes beyond a Kip 6-7 does it differ from my usual patterns. It then "leaks" into my eye and makes it droopy and finally makes it close up. This is when I become hyper light sensitive and needs a lot of space.

When I was using Imigran it would make the attack go partially away, but still leave some symptomes behind. It was like I could still feel part of the attack still going on but the more intense pain removed. So perhaps that is what your DH still feels when using the imigran.

Just out of curiousity, does he use pills, nasal sprays or injection?

Title: Re: Two Stage Hit?
Post by BB on Aug 15^th, 2006, 11:23pm

Hello Thomas

Yes , what you described sounds like what my DH is experiencing.

He uses Imigran ( Imitrex ) injection and it would stop the drilling behind his left eye or at least dull it down a fair bit, but then he continues to feel a burning sensation behind his left eye and pressure vice like gripping his left forehead/temple for quite a while after. These burning senstion and pressure may wane and go by themselves but sometimes he needs to take strong pain killers for them to go.

His left eyelid then would swell and droop and the left cheek becomes numb.

Occasionally during an attack he says the burning behind his left eye can become unbearable, but mostly its less painful then the drilling of the eye.

Does anyone else have this lasting burning/pressure during or after an attack?

Thank you all so much

Annette