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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Cluster Headache Specific >> Coincidental CHs and HSV1/2/3?
        
(Message started by: Phil the Desert Rat on Jan 18^th, 2006, 10:16pm)

Title: Coincidental CHs and HSV1/2/3?
Post by Phil the Desert Rat on Jan 18^th, 2006, 10:16pm

Me again. Earlier today, a fellow "member of the family" questioned the possible relationship between CHs and HSV1/2/3 outbreaks.

In my recent and new personal experience with CH, my first round began Jan 1, and coincided with the worst HSV2 outbreak I have had in several years. Now that CH Round One appears to be over, I am already into another HSV2 outbreak. I bring this up because I typically have two to three HSV2 outbreaks per year now, not this frequent by any stretch, and not this severe. I do not take any preventative HSV2 meds (Valtrex, etc.), as these did not work for me early on, and thought, "Why bother?"

I realize that this is first and foremost a deeply personal subject and question, and I guess it is primarily for my own curiosity, but as the other member considered earlier, there may be a coincidence between the two that may lead to some better understanding of CH Syndrom in general. So here's my question:

Does anyone else have CHs that coincide with HSV1/2/3 outbreaks? If so, are HSV1/2/3 outbreaks worse in conjunction with CHs? More frequent?

Again, please forgive if my question offends some of you. But if there is a fair number of us with this coincidence, then perhaps it is a valid course of research to be pursued by the medical community.

I appreciate any and all responses. PF days and nights, my friends.

--Phil

Title: Re: Coincidental CHs and HSV1/2/3?
Post by Karla on Jan 18^th, 2006, 10:34pm

I certainly don't have it. I have never heard it mentioned on the board in several years of being here until you brought it up. CH is caused by a brain abnormality in the hypathumus(?sp).

Title: Re: Coincidental CHs and HSV1/2/3?
Post by burnt-toast on Jan 19^th, 2006, 3:15am

I do not have any form of HSV and can find nothing in my research linking the two conditions, or referencing "potential" links between CH and HSV outbreaks.

Tom

Title: Re: Coincidental CHs and HSV1/2/3?
Post by CrazyDog on Jan 19^th, 2006, 3:44am

Ok so here is how I understood things to be. There are several viruses in the herpes family that we all commonly have.

Typically when you are talking about herpes everyone thinks of the sexually transmitted ones. But if you have ever had chickenpox, had a cold sore in your mouth or a cold sore on or around your lips then your body is infected with a herpes virus.

So can any of the herpes virus actually cause CH? Well probably not.

But because CH has a neural vascular action and viruses can quite often cause vascular swelling or have neurological effects then it would seem reasonable that in some individuals with CH the herpes virus may complicate the condition.

So I think the question being asked is if others have noticed any link between CH cycles and their herpes.

For some there may be an obvious answer while others not.

Consider the herpes virus that causes cold sores. In most people that have it they never know because they never get a cold sore.

On the other hand perhaps the one symptom they do get is raised body temperature.

Now that should get your mind working. Think of all the post about high body temperature before an attack or a cycle. Was that the CH or was that the virus?

Getting tired must go to bed.

Title: Re: Coincidental CHs and HSV1/2/3?
Post by BoSoxFan on Jan 19^th, 2006, 10:03am

Not sure how this is related or not....

I am a chronic CH'r... I have the intensity and number of headaches under control with various combinations of meds (Indocin 50mg 3x's a day) and switch anti-convulsants every 2 months or so (currently on Keppra now). I take a prednisone CH holiday with a 12 days 60mg taper every 2 months as well.

Anyway, regardless of my meds, I ALWAYS end up with terrible and multiple CH per day when I get canker sores. I always get them in hte same area (lower lip, same side as CH (left) near my gum. When the canker sore is gone, my CH returns to normal (2 every other day - one 1 hour after falling asleep and 1 between 1pm and 3pm) - again, every other day without fail.

By the way, I do not have herpes of any kind, but canker sores are typically mistake/put in the same category. Just though I would throw it out there.

Title: Re: Coincidental CHs and HSV1/2/3?
Post by E-Double on Jan 19^th, 2006, 10:09am

The prednisone will decrease your immunity which can bring on herpes if you are already susceptible to them.
Lack of sleep will do the same.

I have gotten canker soars and cold soars since I was a toddler.

I have not noticed an increase in outbreaks while in cycle.

Title: Re: Coincidental CHs and HSV1/2/3?
Post by CrazyDog on Jan 20^th, 2006, 12:45am

Well CH will certainly put stress on us and every doctor I have ever talked to about it says that stress is a common trigger for cold sores.

So perhaps we could have it all backwards.

You ever wonder how much internal stress is going on due to CH that we are not aware of. For example metabolically even before we feel the pain maybe something happens that creates an internal stress.

Sometimes I wonder if I get headaches because I think too much, no but it could be a trigger, or maybe it’s the OCD, but then again do I really have OCD.

Title: Re: Coincidental CHs and HSV1/2/3?
Post by Phil the Desert Rat on Jan 20^th, 2006, 7:57pm

Yeah, CrazyDog, I was thinking too that it might have simply been the stress associated with the CHs that contributed to the HSV. As far as OCD? CHs more than anything inspired me to be OC. >:( Thanks for your responses, CD and everyone else.

--Phil

Title: Re: Coincidental CHs and HSV1/2/3?
Post by floridian on Jan 20^th, 2006, 8:04pm

Researchers have noted an increased level of antibodies to various herpes virus and/or epstein-barr virus (mononucleosis, chronic fatigue) in cluster heads. For me its probably the epstein barr virus if its anything along those lines.

http://www.med-owl.com/clusterheadaches/tiki-index.php?page=Epstein-Barr%20Virus

Title: Re: Coincidental CHs and HSV1/2/3?
Post by BobG on Jan 21^st, 2006, 2:32am

Quote:

CrazyDog
Think of all the post about high body temperature before an attack or a cycle.

CH will certainly put stress on us and every doctor I have ever talked to about it says that stress is a common trigger for cold sores.

Quote:

E-Double
The prednisone will decrease your immunity which can bring on herpes if you are already susceptible to them.

Lack of sleep will do the same.

I have to agree with CrazyDog and E-Double.

For those that have said they do not have the herpes virus…………bet ya do and just don’t know it.

Title: Re: Coincidental CHs and HSV1/2/3?
Post by burnt-toast on Jan 21^st, 2006, 11:01am

on 01/21/06 at 02:32:58, BobG wrote:

I have to agree with CrazyDog and E-Double.

For those that have said they do not have the herpes virus…………bet ya do and just don’t know it.

Well aware that Chicken Pox, Shingles, canker/cold sores are forms of HSV and that even after the active virus has run its course it remains inactive/dormant in a suffers body. The same is true for sexually transmitted forms of the virus. The issue is dormant vs. active.

To technically clarify my response.

I do not suffer from any common active forms of the herpes virus - canker sores, cold sores, fever blisters, etc., (HSV1)

I do not have recurring chicken pox/shingles, etc. (Herpes Zoster)

I do not have a sexually transmitted form of the herpes virus (HSV2).

I don't have a rats ass clue what HSV3 is but didn't think it was important to point that out.

The key facts that I was highlighting are - that I do not suffer from any active form of HSV but still suffer from chronic CH. Secondly, the CH research I have compiled does not reference any relationship between HSV and CH.

Didn't think the technically correct version improved the response so I kept it simple.

Tom