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        Cluster Headache Help and Support >> Cluster Headache Specific >>  'The possible role of melatonin in cluster headac
        
(Message started by: Beastfodder on Dec 22^nd, 2005, 6:13am)

Title: 'The possible role of melatonin in cluster headac
Post by Beastfodder on Dec 22^nd, 2005, 6:13am

Just saw this on one of the medical sites and it's was really interesting to read - since it gave me at least one reason why I got hit like a train after a sauna when I was in cycle.

In September of last year researchers described a newly recognized trigger for cluster headache – increased body heat. In human beings, it’s been shown that increases in body temperature are related to decreases in the level of a hormone called melatonin.

Research has also revealed that lower levels of melatonin are found in patients with cluster headache than in patients who do not suffer from cluster headache. The levels of melatonin are lower in patients during their cluster period than during remissions.

This has led researchers from the Federal University of Sao Paulo, Brazil to believe that increased body heat may trigger cluster headache by lowering levels of melatonin as reported in the January 8th, 2000 edition of the Lancet. This suggests that there may be a future role for melatonin in the prevention and treatment of cluster headache.

So next time round definitely shall add Melatonin supplements to O2 and clusterbusters.

That apart I'll be away for a few days - so may you all have a fantastic Christmas and a brilliant New Year heralding loads more pain free days to us all.

Title: Re: 'The possible role of melatonin in clust
Post by floridian on Dec 22^nd, 2005, 11:40am

Yup. I am definitely more susceptible to heat exhaustion/heat stroke, and heat is a trigger for me. Serotonin increases body temp, and melatonin decreases it.

Title: Re: 'The possible role of melatonin in clust
Post by Orion on Dec 22^nd, 2005, 11:56am

Tough call for me. When I have late summer cycle (August, Septmeber) here in Florida I get an afternoon ch from going out or in from my car, so I am in for the heat angle.

But hey last night when it was cold I and I get a nice 8+ ch that O2 won't kill so it is trex to the rescue. I have been doing melatonin for about a week, at least 9 mg, and I have tried a major pharmacy brand, now using nutrition store brand, and unfortuneatley don't see complete relief, 3rd night of 8+, but at least no rebounds (knock on wood).

Title: Re: 'The possible role of melatonin in clust
Post by Redd715 on Dec 22^nd, 2005, 12:11pm

The heat angle is very interesting to me as well. High heat and/or humidity is a sure trigger for me. I've experimented this winter with the theory, and depending on the outside temperature I keep my bedroom window cracked overnight to allow for a constant flow of fresh cool air to circulate in the room as I sleep. Not enough to make the room too cold, just to have the cool fresh air to breathe.

May just be a mind over matter thing, but it does seem to help alot. My landlord won't be happy with the heating bills but I don't care...

Title: Re: 'The possible role of melatonin in clust
Post by Phil L on Dec 22^nd, 2005, 2:16pm

Makes sense to me as just about everything and anything can and will act as a trigger. In my case, it's chocolate, booze, stress, no stress, cycle of the moon and weather, plus whatever time of day it is and my astrological sky chart index.

Title: Re: 'The possible role of melatonin in clust
Post by mynm156 on Dec 22^nd, 2005, 2:19pm

Well temperature is also part of our circadian rhythm which may further explain night attacks..... Interesting very interesting.....

Title: Re: 'The possible role of melatonin in clust
Post by zanychef on Dec 22^nd, 2005, 2:36pm

maybe i shouldnt be a chef after all then............... :(
but its the job i love and giving up would be giving in wouldnt it?

Title: Re: 'The possible role of melatonin in clust
Post by floridian on Dec 22^nd, 2005, 3:06pm

on 12/22/05 at 14:36:02, zanychef wrote:

maybe i shouldnt be a chef after all then............... :(
but its the job i love and giving up would be giving in wouldnt it?

If you can't take the heat, get an air conditioner for the kitchen!!

Title: Re: 'The possible role of melatonin in clust
Post by cazman on Dec 22^nd, 2005, 10:35pm

lol good one yes ill bite on the heat thing the worst cycles appear to be in the hotest months ill have to read up on it thanks.

Title: Re: 'The possible role of melatonin in clust
Post by owk on Dec 23^rd, 2005, 11:44am

I'm convinced that 9mg of melatonin killed my cycle this year. This is only my third cycle, so things are still not at full blast, though.

But I'll surely try again next year.

Title: Re: 'The possible role of melatonin in clust
Post by snyder on Dec 23^rd, 2005, 6:47pm

I find, in regard to body temp, that getting too warm will trigger an attack when I am in cycle. I have also found that during a bad attack that cooling my lower body, feet, legs, etc., that it seems to draw blood flow away from my head and lessen the CH pain. I have been known to be out in the snow in my underwear (only), and barefoot, when I get a K7 or higher in the winter. It does help.

In the summer I always stand under, or near, a fan when a CH hits. That helps me, too.

Bill

Title: Re: 'The possible role of melatonin in clust
Post by Smartin on Dec 28^th, 2005, 5:04pm

Just posted the following in the thread about kudzu but it also has bearing here. Not given the heat thing much thought...here in Phoenix HA's haven't appeared until the temp falls below 100.

Last time I visited was last spring when Kudzu became all the rage. I had been taking verap for about 18 months and missed my fall episode...well I didn't really miss it, it just didn't appear...and thought I had found a wonder drug. Then I got a rare spring episode and started taking Zu per all of the wonderful recommendations. Immediate relief...for about 7 days then they came back with a vengence. During this period, I was also taking melatonin, the verap, and zomig and O2 for aborts. The I read a post about determining the effectiveness of treatements when we're all pumping so much into ourselves. So I stopped everything except the aborts for a week. A hard week. Then I went on the Melatonin, 5 mgs a night. the HA's stopped within a couple of days. Could have been the natural course of the cycle, but I never stopped so quickly before. I've been alternating 2.5 and 5 mgs every other night since and have been pf. I chose the Mela first because it seemed to have the least side affects. (grogginess in the am especially with the 5).

I've just passed my usual fall period without a shadow. Now hoping the spring does the same.

One other note: My doc gave me a year script for the zomig...6 doses per month is what my insurance pays for. I have gotten it filled several times and have amassed several months supply (always afraid that I won't have enough around if the monster shows his ugly head.) But some of them are getting ready to expire. Anyone have any suggestions what to do with it? I hate it to go to waste. (This is probably an illegal question but I thought I'd ask it anyway.)

Title: Re: 'The possible role of melatonin in clust
Post by Kris_in_SJ on Dec 28^th, 2005, 8:10pm

Makes total sense to me. For 2 cycles, I got hit in the winter/early spring months. Last time, it was during June/July. An avid gardener and yard laborer, I started getting hit whenever I was working hard in the flowers. Had to give up my stress-reducing hobby during mid-day hours.

Kris

Title: Re: 'The possible role of melatonin in clust
Post by chewy on Dec 30^th, 2005, 7:44am

Quote:

Federal University of Sao Paulo, Brazil

Quote:

there may be a future role for melatonin in the prevention and treatment of cluster headache.

Welcome to 2002. Your almost there!

Title: Re: 'The possible role of melatonin in clust
Post by BarbaraD on Dec 30^th, 2005, 10:05am

Melatonin at night is a staple for me. I get some sleep and it helps with the "exhaustion" part. I still get hit, but the sleep helps.

Heat is a trigger and I keep the house to meat hanging temps in the summer and winter (I'm chronic, so I don't get a break). My "hig cycles" hit in the sping and winter, so I have to have "cold" and ice (keep frozen peas handy at all times).

Can't take a lot of things because of low blood pressure. But the melatonin is a godsend. No hangovers that I've ever noticed. If I can get some rest, I can handle the headaches (well, as much as can be expected - I'd druther do without them, but.......).

Hugs BD

Title: Re: 'The possible role of melatonin in clust
Post by Guiseppi on Dec 30^th, 2005, 10:15am

Makes sense to me, when I'm at work and get hit, I do the 02 with my air conditioning on full and all of the vents blowing in my face, seems to help with the stabbing pains.

Guiseppi

Title: Re: 'The possible role of melatonin in clust
Post by Melissa on Dec 30^th, 2005, 10:37am

Ok, maybe I'm just a weird one here, but of the times I took Melatonin an hour before bedtime, I got slammed harder and more often than when I didn't....

Does that mean I don't have clusters? Cause that would be AWESOME!! ;)

Title: Re: 'The possible role of melatonin in clust
Post by burnt-toast on Dec 30^th, 2005, 10:45am

Increased body temp. may explain why I find excessive physical exertion to be a trigger.

Melatonin added to my med. mix seems to have helped with my night attacks so this information may be of merit.

Tom

Title: Re: 'The possible role of melatonin in clust
Post by kim on Dec 30^th, 2005, 10:16pm

This really helped to explain why d/h complains of being to hot while in or starting acycle he has been cronic for 4 years now with only a couple weeks relief a year (if you can call it relief) he als suffers from migrains at the same time> I'll get him some mel. to try and some kudzu

Title: Re: 'The possible role of melatonin in clust
Post by FramCire on Dec 31^st, 2005, 1:36am

on 12/30/05 at 10:37:43, Melissa wrote:

You and I both. When I took melatonin, I would sleep Ok for a short time and wake up in worse shape than usual. It was suggested to try a higher dose (is that the right word) but I am a bit scared to even try it as you can understand.

So far I haven't found a good way to get sleep at night outside of sleeping in a room with lights on and a TV on and I can exhaust a few hours of sleep. Now, during the day, I can sleep.... if someone will watch my kids for me. ;)

Title: Re: 'The possible role of melatonin in clust
Post by nancyc on Jan 1^st, 2006, 1:12am

I have noticed that my body temp seems to GO up when I am starting to get hit too...this has let me know the beast is about to rear his ugly head many a times...I, too, keep my house cool..I can not take the heat at all
On the subject of melatonin, isnt there some antidepressants that you cant mix with melatonin? smiles,nancyc

Title: Re: 'The possible role of melatonin in clust
Post by llreed on Jan 1^st, 2006, 8:33pm

I get a warm flush feeling before the hit, not sure what my temp is but I do know when I come down I cool off quick.... Just started the Melatonin last night - got a PF night. :) - May have a connection for me?
llreed

Title: Re: 'The possible role of melatonin in clust
Post by djsound on Jan 3^rd, 2006, 11:59pm

I just began a cycle after more than three years free. My last cycle was stopped midway when I tried several doses of melatonin. My doctor who treats me with Pred and corgard does not believe this could have happened. However, it ended almost imediately. This cycle has just begun and I have started taking a few of the melatonin and it has reduced the intensity, but has not ended it like the last time. I am only taking 3g a night. Can a person take too much melatonin? [smiley=huh.gif]

Title: Re: 'The possible role of melatonin in clust
Post by BarbaraD on Jan 4^th, 2006, 7:17am

I take about 9-12mg at night. My neuro recommends it highly. He's had a lot of success with it with CH as well as migraines. He takes it for migraines and tells his CH patients to take it at bedtime for sleep.

I don't know what the "high" dose is, but most of us take 6-12mg.

Hugs BD

Title: Re: 'The possible role of melatonin in clust
Post by StressFree on Jan 5^th, 2006, 5:40pm

DJSound,
I hope you meant 3mg! 3 grams of anything is probably going to do bad things to your system.

I tried medium doses of melatonin during a cycle, and like a couple of others here seemed to get hit extra hard because of it. I won't take melatonin or antihistamines because they had the same effect. I'm happy it helps many though!!!
Rich

Title: Re: 'The possible role of melatonin in clust
Post by GFP on Jan 7^th, 2006, 12:12am

Hello, what about a step backward?

I'm spanish so sorry for my english. Melatonin is synthetized directly from serotonin so low levels of M. can obviosly derive from low levels of serotonin. SumaTriptan acts over 5HT1 receptor to compress the carotyd and abort attacks, because serotonin does not (there's not enough). So, if you take M. you spend less S. in producing M. and you get higher levels of S., and you abort the real problem.

The heat will help produce Cortisol, and C. increases plattelets captation of S. and induces production of T-Pyrrolasa, who breaks down 5HTP, base of serotonin production. So heat will help raise Serotonin levels and initiate an attack.

... I'm sure M. helps and not to be heat, too...

Of course, I'm not M.D. Hello again.

Title: Re: 'The possible role of melatonin in clust
Post by Jasmyn on Jan 7^th, 2006, 6:16am

http://www.geocities.com/hairybobby2000/dreamcircadian.html

MELATONIN and CIRCADIAN RHYTHMS

Melatonin is one of the main chemicals the body produces which is used in dreams. It is produced by the Pineal gland. It is important not to have too much of this chemical as too much can lead to manic depression and too little can lead to withdrawal. So in some ways we suffer from withdrawal symptoms if we produce too much. So in this way levels of Melatonin are extremely important in helping us regulate our own bodies.

One feature to note is that the bodies production of Melatonin is quite strongly connected with the time of year. Melatonin is know as the vampire drug as it only comes out at nighttime. And during the winter months it can be overproduced and in the summer months it can be under produced.

The main function of Melatonin is to make us feel sleepy. So in winter our body is over producing because of the longer hours of nighttime. This leaves us in an almost drugged up state. That can leave us tired and withdrawn. In areas near the north and south Poles this can be an extreme problem and is linked with SAD (Seasonal Affected Disorder).

So during the winter are brains are switching off and we are really attempting to hibernate.

MELATONIN AND DREAMS
Melatonin then is also said to enhance the vividness of dreams. So what can you do to enhance the bodies production of Melatonin?

Diet is an obvious start. Several foods are associated with Melatonin production. They include oats, rice, milk, seafood's, Soya, sweet corn, bananas, and tomatoes. Some people take Melatonin supplements but no studies have been done on the safety of this.

However Melatonin is quickly flushed out of the body within an hour of production so it is better to take the food last thing at night otherwise it will have no effect.

You can also enhance Melatonin levels with actions. As discussed earlier it is associated with the rhythms of the body. And meditation is said to enhance production along with Yoga. Dimmed lights can also encourage Melatonin. After all Melatonin only comes out at night after 9PM. It does not come out during the day at all. It is associated with daylight so a darkened room will enhance its production.

SERATONIN and HALLUCINATIONS
Melatonin is associated with the production of some of the strongest hallucinogens known to man. Seratonin is also made in the Pineal gland. Seratonin though has similarities with smoked drugs such as DMT. It is therefor associated with the hallucinogenic aspects of dreaming. It can produce extremely vivid dreams. It can make you feel extreme levels of love and can enhance the sense that everything is connected. It can also enhance noises and colors.

Many people have associated seratonin - along with other drugs as of beneficial effect. A low seratonin metabolism is connected with depression, crime, drug abuse, reckless behavior and suicides.
Clearly the body cannot do without seratonin. It is essential. And low levels seem to be connected with bad and poor behavior. It leads to poor judgment. And it is clear the brain craves DMT and seratonin. It stimulates the mind. But perhaps over stimulation can lead to a different set of problems. High levels can be associated with schizophrenia, psychosis, mania, mood disorders, brain disease, autism , Alzheimer's disease as well as blood disorders. So it is clear that too much can lead to people being more withdrawn.

Title: Re: 'The possible role of melatonin in clust
Post by kcopelin on Jan 7^th, 2006, 10:36pm

on 12/23/05 at 18:47:02, snyder wrote:

I have been known to be out in the snow in my underwear (only), and barefoot, when I get a K7 or higher in the winter. It does help.

Bill

I can't help it. :o.. I have to say something here. [smiley=laugh.gif] [smiley=laugh.gif][smiley=laugh.gif]..
And then, when they've hauled your butt off to jail for indecent exposure, the CH returns, right?
Sorry I couldn't help myself.
Melatonin seems to have helped mynight time hits big time...
hope y'all are pain free soon and forever!
kathy

Title: Re: 'The possible role of melatonin in clust
Post by ScottEinDC on Jan 11^th, 2006, 10:21am

What are the experiences of melatonin helping with day hits?