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        New Message Board Archives >> 2006-2007 Getting to Know Ya Posts >> sleeping patterns
        
(Message started by: kaz101 on Apr 7^th, 2006, 3:49pm)

Title: sleeping patterns
Post by kaz101 on Apr 7^th, 2006, 3:49pm

Hi my names Karen and I live in Birmingham england, I suffered from ch 15 years ago and they have returned this year, im a staff nurse on a adolescent unit for kids with mental illness and have just started a month of nights, but my ch have come with a vengence does anyone know if sleep patterns can affect them ? xx

Title: Re: sleeping patterns
Post by Jonny on Apr 7^th, 2006, 4:13pm

Hang tight, I will find Carrie (Lizzie2) and she may be able to help you. she is a nurse that works with babies on the night shift.

Title: Re: sleeping patterns
Post by Guiseppi on Apr 7^th, 2006, 5:29pm

I'm a 46 year old episodic. When I'm off cycle shift work doesn't bother me. When I'm on cycle, switching from days to graveyards revs the beast up big time.

Guiseppi

Title: Re: sleeping patterns
Post by AussieBrian on Apr 7^th, 2006, 7:13pm

I still want to know who put the 'f' in shift work.

Hated it with a vengeance and, like Guiseppi, found the switching to be the biggest problem. Fortunately I had a lot to do with writing the rosters so could put myself on straight graveyards or straight days or whatever. That helped a lot.

I also took all precautions to avoid armed duties.

Title: Re: sleeping patterns
Post by BobG on Apr 7^th, 2006, 7:40pm

I've worked rotating shifts for 35+ years. Change shifts every week.

Do sleep patterens affect cluster attacks? Yes.

Title: Re: sleeping patterns
Post by Lizzie2 on Apr 7^th, 2006, 8:41pm

Definitely they do. I actually just switched out of doing night shift. I was rotating day/night. I have had a lot of new medical problems come up in the last couple of months, however, and I have to go to appointments, tests, and treatments several times a week. So for now, I'm working day/evening for medical reasons. This is only the 2nd week since I switched off of rotating, however, and I still don't feel quite settled!

I agree with the rest above that switching was the worst of all. Switching from night to day hurt me far worse than switching from day to night. I also sometimes had a real problem with sleeping during the day.

Melatonin is a hormone that can really help CH'ers big time, but melatonin is not produced by the body in daylight. So for those of us who crash during daylight hours, we miss out on reaping the benefits of melatonin for our cluster attacks. You may try taking synthetic melatonin (most people take it in 3mg increments....somewhere from 3-12 mg should be the right dose, but I've heard some docs say you can go up to 21mg.) I take ativan and that sometimes helped me sleep during the day.

I think one of the important things about night shift is consistency - which is darn near impossible to maintain. If you can stay up and keep the same sleep schedule on your off days, that's the best thing. However, as you know it's almost impossible to stay up all night when you have nothing to do and there's nothing good on tv or nobody awake to talk to!! haha

Do you use oxygen? Is there any way you could get access to oxygen at work or be able to store an O2 tank in the locker room or lounge? I couldn't do that, but what I did do (and still do - even on day shift) was take Amerge or Frova before work, depending on if I was working 8 or 12 hours. They are the longest acting triptans, and they actually kept my CH away while I was at work for the most part. After work was a toss up however. I found I had to take it before going in to work because if I waited until I was working, inevitably I got hit while doing some kind of care that I absolutely could not abandon. Sometimes I'd just rest my head against the isolette while I was changing the diaper or finishing up other care. It's hard to escape and yet we don't want others to see the pain in our faces...

I wish you the best of luck with it and let us know how it is going!

Hugz,
Carrie :)

Title: Re: sleeping patterns
Post by Guiseppi on Apr 8^th, 2006, 6:28pm

"Who put the f in shift work?".......Oh Aussiebrian sir, I will be using that line in the future!

Guiseppi

Title: Re: sleeping patterns
Post by burnt-toast on Apr 9^th, 2006, 6:31am

Abnormal sleep patterns/sleep disorders are frequently referenced as a potential cause and/or triggers of CH attacks.

I believe that while in cycle - shift work and abnormal sleep patterns can increase CH activity. I've often noted that when tired/lacking sleep or after a long day of heavy physical exertion my CH activity/severity tends to increase.

But as many of us already know the disorder promotes abnormal sleep patterns. If abnormal sleep patterns/sleep disorders were key factors it would seem that CH would be a progressive disorder that feeds off of itself with the highest percentage of sufferers getting progressively worse without remission. We know this isn't the case, cyclical activity far exceeds chronic activity.

I further question the abnormal sleep idea in that for most suffers, CH returns when they are enjoying more normal sleep patterns and goes into remission when sufferers experience some of their highest levels of abnormal sleep activty.

Okay, where am I going with this rant?.

I believe that abnormal sleep patterns/sleep disorders have little or no effect on causing - and do not influence the return, remission or lenghth of cycles.

As contributing factors to increased CH activity during cycles - addressing/treating abnormal sleep patterns/sleep disorders may reduce a sufferers CH activity/severity levels during cycles.

As potential causes and cures - I believe abnormal sleep paterns/sleep disorders may be a dead end.

Tom

Title: Re: sleeping patterns
Post by Richr8 on Apr 9^th, 2006, 6:38pm

on 04/07/06 at 15:49:19, kaz101 wrote:

does anyone know if sleep patterns can affect them ? xx

It'll fire me right up.

Title: Re: sleeping patterns
Post by Lizzie2 on Apr 11^th, 2006, 11:38pm

Tom,

I don't look at the issue of abnormal sleep patterns as a method to a cure, but I do believe these sleep patterns play a very important role for most CH'ers.

We know that many sufferers are hit shortly after falling asleep - associating attacks with REM sleep.

Melatonin is not made by the body when daylight is present. Melatonin has been found to be quite useful to many CH'ers, and therefore those of us who do shift work are at a double disadvantage here. We already recognize the importance and need for melatonin in fighting our own condition, but due to the fact that we sleep during the daylight, we don't make this precious chemical on our own at the time when we need it most.

At this moment, I'm too tired to go into any more rants myself on sleep since I didn't sleep a minute last night and then worked a very long day today! I have to get up in about 4 hours and work another long one. Too many hits last night and the disordered sleep for me reached its peak last night. I hate nights like that.

I don't think that studying disordered sleep patterns and the relation to the hypothalamus and cluster headaches is going to necessarily lead to a cure, but I do believe it will lead to further understanding. And further understanding simply places more pieces of the puzzle together. That makes it easier to find a "cure."

Had to end on an optimistic note... 8)

Hugz,
Carrie :)

Title: Re: sleeping patterns
Post by kaz101 on Apr 12^th, 2006, 3:48am

Thanks to all of you who have posted stuff about, sleep patterns its been most usefull, Iv just had a night off so slept durning the night last night and didnt get a hit which was great, another 9 nights to go so we will see.
Karen xx

Title: Re: sleeping patterns
Post by burnt-toast on Apr 12^th, 2006, 6:10am

on 04/11/06 at 23:38:11, Lizzie2 wrote:

Tom,

I don't look at the issue of abnormal sleep patterns as a method to a cure, but I do believe these sleep patterns play a very important role for most CH'ers.

We know that many sufferers are hit shortly after falling asleep - associating attacks with REM sleep.

Melatonin is not made by the body when daylight is present. Melatonin has been found to be quite useful to many CH'ers, and therefore those of us who do shift work are at a double disadvantage here. We already recognize the importance and need for melatonin in fighting our own condition, but due to the fact that we sleep during the daylight, we don't make this precious chemical on our own at the time when we need it most.

I don't think that studying disordered sleep patterns and the relation to the hypothalamus and cluster headaches is going to necessarily lead to a cure, but I do believe it will lead to further understanding. And further understanding simply places more pieces of the puzzle together. That makes it easier to find a "cure."

Had to end on an optimistic note... 8)

Hugz,
Carrie :)

Carrie,

On your first three statements - I agree while noteing that only when CH'rs are in cycle.

In cycle CH activity increases with lack of sleep or physical tiredness. Nearing REM sleep is one of the primary periods for experiencing high in cycle CH activity and disrupts sleep. Production of Melatonin is inhibited by daylight and even artificial light.

So absolutely - shift workers and those experiencing sleep deprivation are truely at a double disadvantage when they are in cycle. However no amount of personal or professional schedule reform seems to stop the cycle - only reduce the frequency/severity of attacks.

But then - remission. Suddenly none of these previous issues will be issues again until a new cycle begins. Our enlarged hypothalamus', their overactivity during attacks and our pineal glands inability to produce Melatonin? No problem until a new cycle begins.

Eat, drink, stay up late, work too hard, work too long, sleep all day - no amount of over-indulgence seems to induce a cycle.

If everyone experienced cycles in low light periods of the fall/winter or higher light periods of spring/summer a seasonal light connection between our hypothalamus and/or pineal gland could be made - but everyone can begin and end cycles at any time of the year.

It's these factors that lead me to belive that abnormal sleep habits may only be triggers for attacks when in cycle and may not be keys to understanding the disorder.

Dinged up Hypothalamus' and/or Pinial Glands affecting our body clocks? I think there may be a relationship. If all sufferers were chrinic I would be more comfortable saying this - but I have difficutly incorporating the on/off cycle swith that most sufferers have into the equation. Unfortuantely these may also only be relevent issues while in cycle.

I want to trade for a disorder that isn't so damned fickle.

Tom

Title: Re: sleeping patterns
Post by Dragnlance on Apr 24^th, 2006, 10:41am

Switching shifts is a surefire way to make the moster rend my brains to mush. The monster likes routine, and if you change the routine, it gets even with you. The monster has double standards, because it will change on you without notice :-/

Hope things settle down for you soon!!

Dragn

Title: Re: sleeping patterns
Post by floridian on Apr 24^th, 2006, 12:31pm

Several researchers have described cluster headaches as a circadian disorder, though it is case of the blind men and the elephant, others focus on serotonin, others on the anatomy and hypothalamus, etc.

Melatonin production is low in clusterheads, year round, regardless of if they are in cycle or remission. Change in sleep for work, caffeine in the evening, psuedoephedrine for sinus problems - they all mess up melatonin and circadian cycles. I have improved greatly since getting a 8-5 job and eliminating pseudofed, cutting back on pm caffeine and keeping regular sleep patterns. Usually in July and August, I start waking up early and am completely alert at 5:30 or 6 am, regardless of when I go to bed ... and I get a twitch in the affected eye. That is a signal that the beast is approaching. I start a regular sleep plan, with melatonin at 9:30 and sleep at 10:00, plus magnesium and B-vitamins. That has kept the pain away for the past few years, although I still get 'phantom' clusters with all the other signs of CH, just no headache.