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Title: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by BarbaraD on Dec 17th, 2007, 12:43pm Just heard where the NJ Governor sign the death penalty OUT... and commuted all the death row inmates to life without parole.... Anyone wanna argue fer or agin?? Hugs BD |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by vietvet2tours on Dec 17th, 2007, 12:47pm I'm against the death penalty. I think they should hire jonny to weld all of the death row inmates in their cells. Ya die in there Sorry bout yer luck. Potter |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by Kirk on Dec 17th, 2007, 12:58pm Depends on which is cheaper. Keeping them in prison for the rest of their lives? Or all the appeals before they assume room temperature? [smiley=smokin.gif] |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by vietvet2tours on Dec 17th, 2007, 1:21pm Ya get oatmeal an toast fer breakfast 365. B'loney sanky fer lunch 365. Fer dinner we got critter burgers, or critterloaf and I do mean critter 365. All the water ya want tho. Did I mention health care. Nope. Potter |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by aprilbee on Dec 17th, 2007, 1:31pm I'm FOR the Death Penalty...that's all I'll say. |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by BarbaraD on Dec 17th, 2007, 1:34pm I used to be against it, but after knowing two victims (two nice little ladies in their 70s who never did a damn thing to anyone but be nice) who were brutally murdered - I changed my mind. One murderer is in for life in OK (with probably a chance for parole someday). The other one happened in my hometown of Gladewater. It took 2 trials (which he admitted he'd killed the woman both times) 2 convictions with the death penalty - 9 stays and 25 years before they FINALLY put him to sleep. But under the laws in Texas HAD they commuted his sentence (as the bleeding hearts were wont to do) he could have walked out of prison the day they did it. The laws are on the side of the bad guys. And yes, sometimes there are mistakes made and an innocent gets convicted, and if I were sitting on a jury I'd have a tuff time handing out the death penalty, but some crimes warrant it I think. Hugs BD |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by NJRik on Dec 17th, 2007, 2:19pm I'm against the death penalty. |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by AlienSpaceGuy on Dec 17th, 2007, 2:22pm Do you like to see the USA in the same pot with Afghanistan, Bahrain, Belarus (the last dictatorship in Europe), Bangladesh, Botswana, Burundi, Chad, Cuba, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Ethiopia, India, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Japan, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Malaysia, Nigeria, North Korea, Pakistan, People's Republic of China, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Taiwan, Tajikistan, Thailand, Uganda, Uzbekistan, Vietnam, Yemen, Zimbabwe, the other countries that still cling to this barbaric custom in the third millennium? How about "Thou Shall Not Kill" ? Congratulations to the NJ Governor, that's a hopeful start. BTW, what about the alleged rapists, murdered by the state before a DNA test could prove their innocence? |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by thebbz on Dec 17th, 2007, 2:23pm I'm against the death penalty, but I'm all for cruel and unusual punishment. thebb ;;D |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by Monty on Dec 17th, 2007, 2:25pm Nope. Not gonna argue. I am not against all use of the death penalty. But I think that life in prison with no parole protects society as much as the death penalty. And it is up to the states to decide - if the people of Jersey feel strongly about it, they can take it up as an issue. Most people that get the death penalty were not rational people when they committed their crime. So I don't see much of a deterent. Nothing the state can do will bring anyone back. The government can only approximate an appropriate punishment (loss of life or loss of liberty) and protect other people from the perp. |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by brewcrew on Dec 17th, 2007, 2:40pm on 12/17/07 at 14:22:50, AlienSpaceGuy wrote:
Looks like you've got it all figured out. If you or somebody who subscribes to this is willing to pay my share of taxes for keeping all these scumbags alive and living better than a whole shitload of throw-away kids, by all means step up to the plate. I'll be happy to denounce the death penalty. The closer translation of the commandment is "Thou shalt not murder." |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by Maffumatt on Dec 17th, 2007, 2:55pm Some things are worth dieing for in this world, and some things are worth killing for. |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by Goblin on Dec 17th, 2007, 3:20pm So how many thousands of murderers and rapist have been wrongfully convicted? Also when looking for that how many have walked because of a clerical error in the warrant? 1 either way is to many but I for one have not been able to develope a better system. Should I pay to house them ... nope maybe there families should, abd if the loose all there appeals then there families should pay all court costs and attournies fees. Maybe they should also pay for the law enforcement man hours from start to finish and all equipment used? Most of these hardened felons may have a problem with that because it would be undue stress on there families ... like them chopping up a body or killing and raping a child was due stress? Maybe the victims and there families should have a say in it too, maybe they would feel better to hand out justice themselves. How many murders have we witnessed here? how many bodies have we recovered? I refuse to see the felon as a victim. |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by seasonalboomer on Dec 17th, 2007, 3:33pm I wish I knew the answer. There's no way to know if the death penalty works. From all appearances it appears that evil still finds a way to lurk and destroy and extend its tentacles whether we off a few of the worst perpetrators or not. So many horrible crimes it seems this year. Another one from our area last night: http://www.charlotte.com/109/story/409016.html Senseless, brutal and horrible in its cold blooded-ness. Scott |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by Linda_Howell on Dec 17th, 2007, 3:43pm Ueli, you know I love ya. Quote:
Rapists don't get the death penalty in the U.S. |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by artonio7 on Dec 17th, 2007, 4:11pm ummm... I like the tagline that Potter has "kill 'em all and let God sort them out." with warm regards, Tony |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by M.R. on Dec 17th, 2007, 4:22pm Ueli It usually takes years to get to the point that the death penalty is carried out. Plenty of time for all the evidence to be looked at. Interesting link for above N.J. choice http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/17/death.penalty/index.html?eref=rss_topstories If they don't kill them, I would look on it as free labor (or close to free). Ya wanna eat, you work. If ya don't wanna work, ya don't eat. If you try to escaped, they have the right to shoot you (as many times as they feel necessary). No TV, no weight equipment (if you want to lift weights when you get back, you didn't work hard enough). You can have books to read. And no pictures of women in bikinis... http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,317100,00.html Strangely enough, this happened in N.J, also. This would be for people that got life. People that received less of a sentence get to work on road gangs. My 1.37 cents. Mike Edit for spelling spasm. |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by vietvet2tours on Dec 17th, 2007, 5:02pm on 12/17/07 at 16:11:17, artonio7 wrote:
Same feelings now cept'n I want it slow. Potter |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by chewy on Dec 17th, 2007, 6:07pm on 12/17/07 at 17:02:27, vietvet2tours wrote:
And public |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by vietvet2tours on Dec 17th, 2007, 6:41pm on 12/17/07 at 18:07:37, chewy wrote:
No just welded in their cell. Potter |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by Linda_Howell on Dec 17th, 2007, 6:59pm Currently there are 390 inmates on death row in the U.S. Jonny, if he took the job of welding them in their cell....would be one very busy S.O.B. |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by artonio7 on Dec 17th, 2007, 7:34pm on 12/17/07 at 18:59:10, Linda_Howell wrote:
This other source cites the number as a bit higher. (http://www.ncadp.org/index.cfm?content=5) Total Number of Death Row Inmates as of January 1st, 2007: 3,350 with warm regards, Tony |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by Linda_Howell on Dec 17th, 2007, 7:39pm Great. Whatever I googled Tony is lost. I didn't save it, but it clearly said 390. I do believe yours is a more accurate figure however. The fact still remains though. Jonny would be one busy person. ;;D Look at the banners beneath this thread. LOL |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by deltadarlin on Dec 17th, 2007, 8:02pm on 12/17/07 at 18:59:10, Linda_Howell wrote:
According to the Bureau of Justice, there are 3,228 on death row. Jonny and I could split that number and that would be 1614 for each of us (I can TOO weld, and it doesn't have to be pretty anyway). I'm sure there are a few more people on here who would be amenable to lending a hand. As far as free labor, where would they work? I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want murderers and rapists working outside of the prison. Plus the cost to guard those prisoners would be astronimical. Oh hell, if someone breaks in my house, we dont' have to worry about a trial anyway. I'll just introduce them to my good buddies, Smith and Wesson. While the death penalty may not act as a deterrent to some, at least the sob that died won't think about doing it again. |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by Melissa on Dec 17th, 2007, 8:07pm I know how to solder, does that count?? |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by Charlie on Dec 17th, 2007, 8:09pm on 12/17/07 at 12:47:18, vietvet2tours wrote:
Perfect. Suits me fine so long as they get stuck eating no better or worse than the rest. I hate the death penalty....misnomer as well. Someone somewhere, said that it might be nice to allow the survivors to come in and beat the shit out of the convict several times a year. :o Charlie |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by chewy on Dec 17th, 2007, 8:12pm Quote:
How about "An Eye For an Eye" ? |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by brewcrew on Dec 17th, 2007, 9:42pm on 12/17/07 at 20:12:31, chewy wrote:
Or even "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and unto God what is God's." *And that's NEW Testament stuff. |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by thebbz on Dec 17th, 2007, 9:52pm An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind...Ghandi ;) thebb |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by brewcrew on Dec 17th, 2007, 9:56pm on 12/17/07 at 21:52:58, thebbz wrote:
I don't remember Ghandi claiming to speak the word of God. |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by thebbz on Dec 17th, 2007, 10:01pm Dont know about all that brew, I was just throwin gas on the fire ;;D thebb ;;D edit:I am Christian I am Muslim I am Jew...Ghandi |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by BarbaraD on Dec 18th, 2007, 7:07am And what about Charles Manson? How much has it cost to keep him in prison? And how much damage has he done while BEHIND bars? And he STILL comes up for parole periodically - gets denied, but still comes up for it because of the damn law. He was paroled when he went on his killing spree last time..... Back when I was in school we learned that when someone was convicted they lost their civil rights, yet today the ACLU gets into it and tries to give them MORE civil rights than most of us (law abiding citizens) have. Victims have lost THEIR rights. Ok, you want to give them life without parole - put 'em to work - take away the frills in the prisons (no TV - no playrooms - no frills at all). They work 12 hours a day and prisons become self-supporting so our tax money doesn't have to go to take care of them. We shouldn't have to PAY for their crimes. Let 'em grow their own food, raise their own meat (cows, pigs), do their own laundry, etc. Prisons are not a place to "reform" criminals - it's a place of "punishment" for their crimes. Unfortunately someone has forgotten that and screams "cruel and unhumane punishment" (mainly the ACLU). Well, what the hell did they do to their victims? The ACLU needs to get behind VICTIMS rights instead of the criminals. Hugs BD |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by jimmers on Dec 18th, 2007, 7:59am on 12/17/07 at 20:07:23, Melissa wrote:
If you going to make stained glass windows for their prison cells ;;D There shouldn't be "Death Row" There should be "Death Week!" |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by Kevin_M on Dec 18th, 2007, 8:05am on 12/18/07 at 07:07:18, BarbaraD wrote:
Though a rather nominal fee in comparison when convicted, along with court costs, fines, supervision fees (probation), there is a CVRF fee for victim relief fund. I don't know who established it or what it goes for though. You're right though, very nominal and improportioned in comparison to some crimes. |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by deltadarlin on Dec 18th, 2007, 9:22am on 12/17/07 at 20:07:23, Melissa wrote:
Hey, we can teach you to weld in no time! As far as being self-supporting, if I'm not mistaken, Angola State Prison (right here in Louisiana) is almost completely self-supporting. It is also the largest prison in the US. Escape from Angola is really not much of an option either, considering it's surrounded on three sides by the MS river. Of LSP's inmates, 86% are violent offenders. Fifty-two percent (52%) of the inmate population are serving a life sentence and will never be released from prison. There are currently 84 male inmates at LSP and 1 woman inmate at Louisiana Correctional Institute for Women on Louisiana's Death Row. I believe Parchman State Penitentiary in MS is fairly self supporting... During FY 2006, inmates worked a total of 716,160 hours in the agricultural program. Inmates planted approximately 1,620 acres of vegetables, 360 acres of rice, 2500 acres of soybeans, and 1,220 acres of corn. During FY 2006, 89,520 inmate man-days were expended. During FY 2006, 4,141,381 pounds of vegetables were harvested. The swine operation weaned 806 litters averaging 7.99 pigs per litter with 6,439 weaned. Feeder hogs marketed totaled 5,159 for $583,603.98. The breeding herd received 253 raised gilts into the herd. The current inventory for breeding, farrowing, nursery, and finishing is 4,449. There were 640,050 dozen eggs produced ($360,842 cash value). Of course we could take the worst offenders and put them in ADX in Colorado. I remember watching a show on the prison system in the US, where they showed the 10 worst prisons to be incarcerated in (not the lack of care, but witht he worst of the prison pop), and ADX was at the top. Angola was in there too. Here's a partial list of some of the *guests* at ADX prison. Ted KACZYNSKI, the unibomber, Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols, Eric Rudolph, ZACARIAS MOUSSAOUI, RICHARD REID, and other various and assorted criminals. Most prisoners don't come to ADX when first convicted, they make it there because other prisons cannot handle them. Oh and I forgot Pelican Bay in California. |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by Racer1_NC on Dec 18th, 2007, 10:29am Timothy McVeigh was put to death in 2001. Rightfully so. B |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by BarbaraD on Dec 18th, 2007, 10:46am Carolyn, I like your statitics and think LA has the right idea. Now if we could teach the idea to the rest of the prisons.... Unfortunately Texas still hasn't gotten that idea... I don't have the stats handy but it "costs" way too much to support one prisoner for one day. More than it would on the outside. Some of them have it better on the inside. Great deterient to crime! is that one in CO the one with the concrete cots? I saw something on TV about that. Economical, won't rust, won't have to be replaced - not a bad idea.... |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by Monty on Dec 18th, 2007, 10:47am on 12/18/07 at 10:29:43, Racer1_NC wrote:
I have no doubt that McVeigh was involved, and that the death penalty is a fitting punishment for that. I find it rather strange that his execution was carried out so quickly - there are still major questions about who (other than Terry Nichols) may have been involved. If you want to reduce the costs of the prison system, how about ending the 'war' on drugs? Why should pot-heads and people with cancer that want medical mary jane be locked up? I don't think they pose a threat to society. |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by Maffumatt on Dec 18th, 2007, 1:00pm Its not hard to stay off Death Row. I's a personal choice of mine not to kill anyone or rape a kid under 6 years of age. |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by Bob P on Dec 18th, 2007, 1:40pm Quote:
Crap!!!! I've been in prison for the last 25 years and didn't even know it! "Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made man." Gen. 9:6 |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by Paul98 on Dec 18th, 2007, 3:14pm Gary Leon Ridgway, Randy Steven Kraft, John Wayne Gacy, David Berkowitz, Jeffery Dahmer, Ted Bundy... Throw the switch and get rid of these types of people. The death penalty is not a deterrent, it is an absolute. They absolutely will not harm anyone again. -P. |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by Charlie on Dec 18th, 2007, 9:36pm on 12/18/07 at 07:07:18, BarbaraD wrote:
We try not to kill psychotics is all. Charlie |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by BarbaraD on Dec 19th, 2007, 7:51am Ok, Charlie -- they kill someone - they get off because of "Mental Defect" - get to go to a Mental Facility until such time as they're fit to be put back in society (maybe 6 months or so). Get released - get off meds - go back out and kill someone else. How MANY times has this happened? Excuse: Well, they should have stayed on their meds. Duh? Somehow this just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. But in most states (all for all I know) you can't convict someone who commited a crime when they were mentally defective. All in all, there are way too many loopholes in our legal system to get criminals off and we're headed for more and more 'frontier judgice" and people taking the law into thier own hands because the "law" won't protect them. |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by Kevin_M on Dec 19th, 2007, 8:16am on 12/19/07 at 07:51:48, BarbaraD wrote:
Barb, six months??? ;;D No, even for less than murder, as a threat and until determined not, I've seen eight years. Inside there are still problems, you just don't see them, meds aren't consistently effective but they can do well enough for long whiles. However, even with eight years, being released due to state mental health cuts and still taking meds can mean a lot of possible serious trouble. We release prisoners here too though by the hundreds because of overcrowding and some have again gone on to very serious crimes, and including murder. |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by Ghost on Dec 19th, 2007, 8:20am That gives one more reason to thin the heard! ;;D Mike |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by Charlie on Dec 19th, 2007, 10:12pm Everybody knows that you don't return Albert DeSalvo, Charles Manson, and the Jeffery Daumers of the world back into to society. You just don't kill them for things over which they have no control. It's unsatisfactory but it's what western and the vast majority of societies do. Charlie |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by BarbaraD on Dec 20th, 2007, 8:28am But the bad part, Charlie, was that Manson, WAS released back into society AFTER telling the parole board NOT to release him because he would commit more crimes. They went right ahead and let him out and he went right ahead and did those horrendous things. That tells me he's not crazy -- he's just BAD. And what's even worse - our prison systems have to PROTECT these monsters while they're in prison - at an extra cost to the taxpayers. Can't let the other prisoners at 'em. See what happened to Daumer when we let him in General Population? Gotta protect these others.... BS!!!! Ok, I've got another solution, if ya don't want to put them to sleep. Work them to death. Put them in a enclosed yard with a BIG rock with a little pick axe (a small one) and let them chop the rock into little pieces - 12-14 hours a day would be good). If the area is enclosed a guard wouldn't be necessary - solitary is good. Instead of sitting in a cell all day reading magaizines, watching TV and whatever - let 'em WORK all day at hard labor 7 days a week. Give 'em a quota of rock to chop in a day and if they don't reach the quota - let 'em work overtime. Make 'em wish they were dead. |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by Maffumatt on Dec 20th, 2007, 12:44pm People are animals, and those people are no different than a rabid dog. Its the humane thing to do. Hows that for an argument for evolution? |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by Sandy_C on Dec 20th, 2007, 2:01pm I am with ya, Barb! 100%. Back in the "olden" days, DNA testing either didn't exist, or was still in it's infancy and considered unreliable. Well, now we know that DNA testing can either eliminate, or prove that somebody did something, or didn't do something, with pretty darned good accuracy. Not 100%, but pretty darned close. Here's my thoughts. OK, we have a vile, brutal murder. The first thing the cops do is DNA testing on both the vic and the accused perp. DNA testing will show one of four things. 1. He didn't do it - not possible - % match too low to convict. 2. He might have done it - not sure, % match too low, but there are some similarities. 3. He probably did it - but also not sure, % match very high but not 99%. 4. He absolutely did it - 99% match. At trial, the perp gets convicted. 1 & 2, No death penalty, as many appeals, re-trials as possible. 3. Death penalty sentence with as many appeals, re-trials as possible. 4. Death penalty. One appeal, if that fails, immediate execution. Just my 1.23 cents. Sandy |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by Annette on Dec 20th, 2007, 5:19pm Prisoners under Communist regime dont get any benefit. They have to work 12 hours a day doing hard labour in exchange for 3 meals, no work no food. There is no entertainment of any type. No TV, no books ( only newspapers ) and they stay in the most primitive cells. If they try to escape, they will be shot on sight, no question asked. If they get sick and die then its bad luck. There is no such thing as parole. Is that what we want in here too ? |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by Maffumatt on Dec 20th, 2007, 5:27pm For those that deserve it....yes. |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by Groov on Dec 20th, 2007, 5:54pm No point in me trying to make y'all's minds. I think if my son is ever murdered, I will not care either way. I will serve justice as I see fit. Dont like my politics, too bad. |
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Title: Re: Anyone wanna argue???? Post by Charlie on Dec 21st, 2007, 10:26pm The way societies treat prisoners...even the worst... indicates just how serious they are in practicing what they preach. No matter how difficult. I have to admire Catholics. At least they are consistent. Charlie |
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