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Title: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Annette on Nov 27th, 2007, 2:29pm The 17 years old boy, son of an old good friend of mine, came to see me at home but for a medical reason had given me a professional/ethical dilemma, for which I would like your opinion please. His parents and I used to be good close friends but about 5 years ago they moved to another state and we sort of lost contact. However I remember their eldest son very well, a beautiful polite boy who was doing extremely well at school and was well loved by all who knew him. The boy who came to see me now is troubled, hurt and completely lost. He told me his parents splitted soon after they moved away. His mother took the children to another state and since then had had several relationships. She developed major depression and got first into alcohol then later pot and other drugs. The children had been mistreated physically and verbally by some of her partners, with him being the worst one off because he was trying to protect his younger brother and sister. A few months ago he ran away from home and went to stay at the house of one of his friends. The mother of this friend is a single woman in her late 30s. She took him in and treated him well for a couple of weeks. However, one day when her own children were away, she suddenly grabbed him, fondled him then took him by the hand to her bedroom. He was too shocked and scared to protest. He was confused and didnt know what to think or do, hoping that it would be only a one off. Unfortunately a few days later she did it again. By the time he came to see me this had happened 8-9 times. He told me that he hated it but felt he had no choice as he didnt want to go back home and didnt want his parents to know. The reason he came to see me was he wanted to know if he should get tested for STD because she never used a condom. I have kept him at my place and I have told him that he is most welcome to stay as long as he wants to. I have not yet done any test for him because I am not sure if I should be his doctor. My dilemma is, in my opinion, this is child abuse. This woman had abused his trust and took advantage of a lost and troubled boy who was in her care. What she did could be constituted as rape. However in the state she lives in, the legal consenting age is 17, unless if the perpetrator is the carer ( guardian, teacher etc ) then the legal consenting age is 18. Personally I am furious and really want to put this woman behind bars. However, this poor frightened boy has been so emotionally damaged that he is too scared to do it. He did not want his parents to know ( his father did not know the mother is into drugs and alcohol and that her partners had beaten his children up on occasions ). He didnt want to go see any other doctor but me and he didnt want to go see a counsellor either. Legally I have to respect the wish of this 17 years old boy if I am to be his doctor. I will be able to treat him but I wont be able to tell his parents or anyone else. Furthermore I wont be able to continue caring for him in my home because that would violate the professional relationship with the patient. I have consulted my solicitor who told me I should do as he requested, ie treat him as a patient according to his wish and not tell anyone else, and let him go live whereever and with whomever he chooses. I am not happy with this solution because I believe that he has been too emotionally damaged to be able to choose wisely. He needs help but he also need protection. How can I help and protect him at the same time? Should I just keep him at my house and nurse him until he is well enough to be able to make the right decision? Should I act as a family friend and contact his dad against his wish? What about the possibility of STD, I cant really waste too much time in case he has contracted something? ( there is no symptom yet ). I am sorry for the long post but I believe you all would need to see the whole picture to be able to help me with your opinion. Please share your thoughts and help me with suggestions as to how best I can help this young boy. Thank you very much and God bless us all. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by thebbz on Nov 27th, 2007, 2:38pm Lucky young man. All shit aside....he is the one that should use protection. For his protection. It is normal to worry when one has not taken prudent precaution. The bigger picture...where should this young man go? At 17 he is almost an adult. Someone should point him to the future. Wishing for good outcome thebb |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by thomas on Nov 27th, 2007, 2:43pm Do you have a colleague who could see him, pro-bono while he stays with you for a bit? Then perhaps see if he can find some viable employment and get started on his path. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by George_J on Nov 27th, 2007, 2:48pm Joe (Guiseppi) is probably the best person here to discuss the situation with--that I know of. There are probably others here who've worked with abused juveniles in one capacity or another. I don't know. Although the legal status of this young boy, and the things that happened to him are probably going to be very different viewed through the respective lenses of American and Australian law, kids are kids the world over. I don't have any experience at all with juveniles (other than my own). but it sounds as if you have the legal requirements covered. (Good move discussing it with your solicitor. ) It seems to me that you're now searching for what is the ethical--or at least best-case--direction to proceed. Am I correct? Best wishes always, George |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Annette on Nov 27th, 2007, 2:53pm Thanks John for your thought :) He knows very well from teaching at school about STD and using protection. The problem here is he was too frightened and emotionally damaged to act against this womans demand. Even adults can be put into a compromised position and not able to fight back. I can certainly point him into the right direction but I am worried that unless he has regained enough strength, the minute he walks out my door he is going to walk into all sorts of trouble again. I dont want to lose this opportunity to turn his life around. He could be heading for a life of drugs and problems. :-/ . Short of becoming his mother how can I do this? |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Rosybabe on Nov 27th, 2007, 3:02pm Annette, I don't know the legal procedures on this case but I would think getting another Doctor to check him for diseases would be a good idea, that way you stay out of it in case he decides to take that lady to court and you don't compromised any evidence. Keeping him in your place until he is ready to move on is a very sweet gesture of you but also a huge responsability. I wish you all the best :-* Rosy. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Annette on Nov 27th, 2007, 3:04pm Hi Thomas I have many colleagues who would be more than happy to give him medical care but he refuses to go. He is too shy and too frighten to see anyone else but me at the moment. I am hoping that in a few days he will settle and will feel better about seeing someone else but I am not sure. He is quite lost. Hi George Yes, I am sure if he decides to charge this woman it can be still be seen by the Court as sexual assault or at least violation. Obviously if and when he wants to do this I will do everything I can to help him win the case. Yes again that I am searching for the best ethical way to care for him, not just right now but for his future as well. I also would like to know should I and how to let his father know. His mother sounds like a lost case herself but his dad is a decent caring person. He was just kept in the dark by his ex wife all these years. The children usually go to see him twice a year during school breaks but none of them dared tell him anything out of fear. Now I am also worried about the other 2 kids still in her care :-/ |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by thebbz on Nov 27th, 2007, 3:05pm You should know I was on my own at 13 due to an abusive stepfather. This young man is scared. You need to help him with an initial plan for adulthood. This would include information about these indescreet situations that adulthood will present. I would not overlook a visit with a counselor. This will help qualify and quantify his situation in his own mind. Help him with his options to move forward from the present. Let him know what to watch for and stay away from. That will help give him some confidence. all the best thebb |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Karla on Nov 27th, 2007, 3:07pm I would contact his father and let him know what has been going on at the house of his mother. IE the physcial and emotional abuse. What about his other two syblings left in that environment without his protection there. If the father knows he can sue for custody. He is the one who should take his son to the dr. He is the one who should find councel and help for his son to get over the physical abuse by the lady that raped him and took advantage of him. I know he doesn't want his Dad to know but his Dad loves him and must be better off than his Mother I would hope. I would break the confidence off and talk to the father. But if the father doesn't want him in his life or if the father isn't finantially able to get custody of his kids then let him know he can stay with you. You should report the abuse to social services if you have such an agency where you live to invesigate the abuse. It has to stop for the protection of the two remaining children. The father and you are the only ones who can persue this and help them. Good luck no matter what you decide to do. I will be praying for you for I am sure this is no easy decision. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Annette on Nov 27th, 2007, 3:09pm Thanks Rosy. I thought so too thats why I hadnt agreed to treat him as a doctor but I am worried that if I push him to go see someone else against his wish he will run away from me too. I cant afford to risk his trust here. He is happy to stay with me for now but I am sure if I push him too much he will stop trusting me and will run somewhere else and get into worse trouble. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by thebbz on Nov 27th, 2007, 3:10pm Yea!!! Karla!! Good advice. thebb |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by chewy on Nov 27th, 2007, 3:26pm In this country you would be legally madated to report. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Annette on Nov 27th, 2007, 3:30pm Thanks Karla, that would be the ideal situation and I had thought about it. One thing that made me hesitated which I hadnt posted yet is that his father had remarried and apparently his new wife and the children dont get on very well. They have 2 other children and they are not well off. I think she wont be too happy to suddenly have to care for 3 extra emotionally damaged children if he gets custody. I do believe that it is his responsibility to care for his children one way or another but I have a bad feeling that the 2 younger children will end up in foster care. If only I am a millionaire, I would be able to save 3 souls from destruction! Sigh ! |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by George_J on Nov 27th, 2007, 3:37pm If Annette is his doctor, she may be unable to violate confidentiality and inform the father what has happened. I don't know what Australian law says about that. If she is not his doctor, and is acting as a friend of the family, then she can certainly do so. If Annette tells him that she will not be his doctor and that he must see someone else, he may move on and get into further trouble. If Annette acts as his doctor, she may very well be bound by confidentiality not to say anything to anyone without his consent. I presume that he's of the age of majority in Australia, and can decide to live with whomever he chooses, including Annette's family. No ideal solution that I can see. Perhaps the best-case choice would be to attempt, (gently, and without pressure--to which kids respond badly) to persuade him once again that it might be best to see a colleague of Annette's as his doctor, and continue to stay with Annette's family for the time being as a family friend. Personally, I would attempt to persuade him that it might be best that his father be informed, if for no other reason than to protect the other two kids who are still with their mother. Again, I don't think using pressure or acting without his consent is the best move--but he has to try to understand that it's certainly in the best interests of everyone involved that he cannot let things remain as they are. Kids can make reasonable and informed choices if we talk to them about the choices to be made. I'm relatively sure that this young man can do what is right if it's presented in the right way, and he does not feel as if he's being compelled. Just my opinion, for what it's worth. George |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Annette on Nov 27th, 2007, 3:38pm Chewy, I am all for reporting and I will definitely report about the other 2 younger kids. I want to talk to him again and see if I could gently persuade him to agree to me ringing his father. It looks like its the best way anyway even if its against his wish. I just dont want to hurt him further. It breaks my heart to see how frighten he is :'( Should I do this now or should I wait a few days and give him a chance to settle more. I also want to give him a taste of a normal loving home, is it wrong? |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by thebbz on Nov 27th, 2007, 3:45pm Did you get the PM? Digital dumbass I am. Let him calm down. He'll come around to fact and logic once he is thinking clearly. (Hopefully) thebb |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Ghost on Nov 27th, 2007, 3:48pm Now correct me if I am wrong and I may be but.... you are obligated to not revial(sp) medical info but not a felony you are not a priest. I would double check and see if you can report all counts of abuse but not disclose the medical problems or treatments. Mike Please help if you can. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Rosybabe on Nov 27th, 2007, 3:54pm it is a ticking bomb situation there in your hands Annette, but more for the other two children. I don't know if there is such a thing as Child Protection Services in Australia but I think is now the time to contact them even if is an anonimity status to try to protect the ones that are still under the mother's care, they then will contact the father and the young boy under your care would not have to worry about being you who call his father. He is of legal age to choose who he wants to live with but the others don't and they deserve better also. Sometimes foster care is a way better option than the situation they are in right now. Explain your situation to the boy, the fact that will be better for both of you to get another Doctor to see him so he can stay with you if he desires but that you also need to help his siblings and for that matter you can't provide the medical care he needs right now if he wants to stay under your roof. I will pray for you ... Rosy. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by LindaM on Nov 27th, 2007, 4:09pm on 11/27/07 at 15:38:52, Annette wrote:
Be careful. You seem to be too emotionally involved with him. Something doesn't compute-do you really think that a 17 y.o. young man can be forced to have sex with an older woman so many times??? You have only heard his side of the storey-who knows if he is telling the truth. To me it seems that he is manipulating you by telling you that you are the ONLY doctor/person that he can trust; this is commonly done with people who have personality disorders or other psychiatric problems; don't be surpised if he threatens to harm himself if you push him going to the authorities. I may be wrong, but in any case I would contact social services and turn him over to them to resolve whatever problems he has. I think that you are a person with a good heart, but I think that you have gotten too emotionally involved too quickly and need to step back and let others deal with his problems. Be careful-again, something is not quite right. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by john_d on Nov 27th, 2007, 4:14pm I would call it exploitation since he is of the age of consent. Lots of self-serving people out there, it always suprises me to find out who is willing to exploit other people and knowlingly cause that kind of harm. Hopefully he can learn the skill of saying 'no' sometime soon. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Annette on Nov 27th, 2007, 4:21pm George is right that if I act as his medical doctor I cant divulge any information at all to anyone without his consent, not just medical but personal information too. The dilemma here is his age. Its an grey area. What that woman did to him is rape in my opinion and it seems like many of you here would agree with me. However, that wont be taken automatically as such in the face of the laws, it has to be argued out in Court. If she is taken to Court there is no saying which way it may turn out. He may or may not win the case against her. Therefore its not automatically a felony. In fact, he is in denial about the whole thing. He didnt want to admit or accept that he was raped. He said he didnt want it at all but right now he refuses to think that he was raped. I believe that he is in denial about a lot of things now because he cant cope with it all. Being physically abused is horrible enough, but to be sexually abused too is just too much for him. I really dont want to pressure him. I feel that he is too fragile for it. I am worried that I seem to be his last chance here and if I do this wrong I will blow it big time and I may end up doing more damage to him ( emotionally ). What my heart really wants to do is to take him in and care for him until he regains enough strength. He is in year 11 and I really want to see him complete school or else his future will be severely affected. I can care for him until he does and then help him find employment. However I cant do this for his two sibblings as well. All I can do for his sibblings is to inform DOCS ( Department of Social Services ) anonimously and expect them to do the right thing, thanks Rosy. But then as a friend would his father gets mad at me if I dont tell him first ? Personally I dont feel good about it either, I have seen DOCS mishandling cases often and I have also seen children being just as damaged shuffled from one foster home to another. However, I have to accept that I cant do it all. My primary concern here is this young boy who has come to my home seeking help. So much I want to do but so limited in resources :'( |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Annette on Nov 27th, 2007, 4:24pm on 11/27/07 at 16:09:27, LindaM wrote:
OMG Linda ! Now what am I to think ? :-/ |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by vietvet2tours on Nov 27th, 2007, 4:55pm Mind your own business. Potter |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Redd on Nov 27th, 2007, 5:06pm Not sure about laws in Australia, but in the USA if a doctor is aware or suspects child abuse/neglect, they are mandatory reporters. They MUST contact law enforcement, or face prosecution for failing to report if evidence shows probable cause that they knew. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Annette on Nov 27th, 2007, 5:17pm Yes Redd, its mandatory here too. Thats why I will definitely report about the 2 younger kids but this young boy here is 17, he is not considered a child in the face of laws. Potter, how do I mind my own business? Push him out the door and tell him I wont help him ? Have you even got a heart? |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Sean_C on Nov 27th, 2007, 5:25pm on 11/27/07 at 16:09:27, LindaM wrote:
I agree here. Annette, I personally know no fact from fiction here, however, there were alot of "moms" I wouldn't of minded knockin the bottom out of. Sex is something young "adults" do. No woman would of taken me in the bedroom without my consent because I was "frightened" that was total bullshit. He's playing you, watch your money, and lock the bathroom door when you take a shower. This kid is playing you hard. I'm sorry for the reality check, like the others said, your a very nice/kind person, but I don't think you can help this kid, there's an emotional attachment there. He needs a biased opinion from someonelse. I apologise again, the only person to lose here is you, thats what I see. Sean................................... |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by vietvet2tours on Nov 27th, 2007, 5:26pm on 11/27/07 at 17:17:22, Annette wrote:
Last couple of months youve saved two lives in the E.R. by giving cpr and now you're gonna save a man from a horny woman. Stick to the cpr. Potter |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by fubar on Nov 27th, 2007, 5:26pm Annette, It sounds like the boy needed to tell somebody he got laid, and he framed it in a way that let's him off the hook. Yep, the mother took advantage. Was it rape? I doubt it. No 17 year old boy is going to complain about getting laid, and the fact that he did it repeatedly is telling. If it was rape (i.e. undesired) he could have said/done something sooner. I'm guessing he (like every teenager) is quite enthralled with the orgasm part of it, and would gladly keep doing it. He might feel *a little* guilty and dirty, but I doubt he would refuse the sex if he was really put to the test. It's not just about the friend's mother abusing her position of power, the boy is participating willingly (it seems.) But what do I know? Maybe she should be given 90 lashes. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by George_J on Nov 27th, 2007, 5:38pm on 11/27/07 at 16:21:40, Annette wrote:
That's why the young man needs to understand that his father ought to be told. At some point (whether now or later) you will have to inform the authorities about the verbal and physical abuse that the two younger siblings are allegedly suffering. That is your single choice as far as that goes. If the young man does not want his father to be told about the physical abuse by the biological mother by you, then he must understand that the father will certainly hear about it from Social Services. The sexual abuse of the young man is a separate issue, and was committed by a third party. Perhaps it can be considered separately. George |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Sean_C on Nov 27th, 2007, 5:44pm There was no sexual abuse!!! The kid got laid, NINE TIMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This kid was not 8 years old, his dick got hard because he LIKED it LOL. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Annette on Nov 27th, 2007, 5:46pm Thanks guys for a different perspective. BTW, Daniel knows and he is actually out with the boy right now trying to talk to him "man to man ". So I dont think I am in any kind of danger. Thank you very much for your concern. Maybe I am letting myself being too emotionally involved here but I had known him since he was a toddler and saw him grew up. I thought of him as my nephew until the family moved away. He was such a beautiful kid it breaks my heart to hear his story and to see the frightened look in his eyes. I can understand that most young men enjoy the physical side of sex, even with a much older woman but is it possible for one who had been emotionally damaged to be led into such a situation completely against his will ? I want to be able to do the best thing for him, within legal and ethical reasons. I am not sure which way is the best way and I am mindful that I dont cause him more damage. Thats why I thank you all very much for sharing your thoughts. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Sean_C on Nov 27th, 2007, 5:53pm Annette, good luck. I'm outta this thread. ;;D Cheers, Sean............................ |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Annette on Nov 27th, 2007, 6:01pm Thanks Sean very much for your thoughts and for your concern. :-* I am going to step away for a little while to clear my head and to think more carefully about all that you have shared with me. Thanks all again :) |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by George_J on Nov 27th, 2007, 6:14pm on 11/27/07 at 17:44:21, Sean_C wrote:
Nine times or not, 17 or not, around here he's underage, and it's sexual abuse by a much-older adult. Nine counts. Sounds like 17 is a gray area for Australian law, however. Best wishes, George |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Ree on Nov 27th, 2007, 6:17pm oh boy... Annette you have a very kind heart... Though you do know this "child" from when he was very young you need to close your eyes and remember being 17...I had my first child a month before my 18th birthday. This woman shouldn't have taken advantage yes... but rape... I think not. Gods love to you on your journey... I for one after hearing his tale wouldn't be alone with him without others around. Have you talked to the "other party"? ree |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Annette on Nov 27th, 2007, 6:32pm Thanks Ree for your prayers ! I need it ! But I dont think I am in danger from him. It doesnt help though for me to close my eyes and picture me at 17. Being brought up under strict Asian morals and sent to private Catholic school meant that I didnt even hold a boys hand until I got to University at the age of 20 ! :P Yes George, 17 is the grey area here. The laws here varies from State to State. In Queensland where the incidents occured, the age of consent is 17, unless the perpetrator is acting in the position of a carer, then the age of consent becomes 18. In my opinion the woman was acting as a carer because she took him in as a friend of her own child, so as far as I am concerned, that puts her into the same category as his mother. If this would have happened in NSW, the consent age is 18 and it would have constituted sexual abuse. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Jackie on Nov 27th, 2007, 6:50pm I don't know about Australian law but here, in this state, a 17 year old male is not emancipated and is therefore a minor. Sex with a minor is considered abuse and is required by law to be reported.....by doctors, teachers, etc. Good grief, Annette, your life reads like a soap....friends who try to committ suicide....you find them...... and their family doesn't seem to give a damn.....old friends children who get into 'situations'....and come to you for help...... There's more but I forget it all.....You should really write it down....would make for a good series some day.... :P Good Luck Jackie |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by purpleydog on Nov 27th, 2007, 6:55pm Annette, Here's what I see. You know of 3 children being abused. You don't seem to be too worried about the younger siblings, but instead, you are fawning over and focusing on the "beautiful" 17 year old boy. You are required, by law, to report the abuse. This means now. For all 3 children. It seems to me that the boy staying at his friends for weeks constitutes a place to live, and the mother (rapist) to be the carer. This means he is not of legal age until he is 18. The father cares for the children, you say, but you also say he is married with step children, who do not get along. It is not up to you to say what the situation would be if the children lived with their father, you don't have the slightest clue. My advice? REPORT THE ABUSE NOW, for all 3 children. Including the boy. You have no choice in the matter. This way, all THREE children will be investigated, and medical care provided for them. This leaves you out of the loop. You cannot file reports on two of the children, you need to include all three, and let the courts decide if the boy is of legal age or not. The police will inform the father, and I imagine the father will want to see his kids right away. That problem is solved, you didn't tell his father. Filing an abuse report will bring up counseling in some way, so problem 2 solved there. And if he was a consenting adult, and was having a good time, you can bet that will come out right away. This leaves you knowing the situation, but able to let the proper authorities handle it. If the boy wants to come by to talk to you, fine. But you aren't going to "save" him from anything, including himself. This paragraph bothers me: Quote:
If he ran away a few months ago, and this happened after a couple of weeks, then where has he been all this time? Still living with them? Maybe the old lady and he were getting it on, and the husband came home and found them. Maybe that is why he is so scared. Because of the husband.And if he is truly worried about having an STD, then the authorities will test him for one. But he should know better, if in fact he was having an affair. You file the abuse report, and I bet it all comes out in the open. But if you don't file the report, and something happens, you are legally liable. Be careful. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Tiannia on Nov 27th, 2007, 7:27pm Annette, here is one way to deal with a teen. Follow his wishes. This Means : That you will treat him as a doctor. Report the allegations of abuse regarding his mother. You do not need to call his Dad. The investigators will do that, as it sounds like he has joint custody. This also means that you report the allegations of underage sexual encounters. He does not bring charges, the state does. (Now here is another point of view here for you. Everything with his mom could be total BS and he ran away from home because mom would not let him do this or that. So he came up with this sob story to explain why he left home. none fo the kids have told Dad cause they are too scared. Maybe, or there is nothing to tell. To be honest, if he ran away a couple of months ago, wouldn't the mom have contacted the dad?) Tellthe investigators come to the house to take him into custody, for his own well being. That he came to your house as an old family friend and told you about all of these things. Then he does not have a chance to run and you have covered yourself. All 3 kids are taken care of. Tia |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by deltadarlin on Nov 27th, 2007, 7:30pm Under Australian law, the boy is of legal age to consent to sex. The age of consent for homosexual and hetereosexual sex in ACT, NSW NT, Victoria and WA is 16 and in SOuth Australia and Tasmania it is 17. I do agree with Chris here though, my focus would be on the little ones, not the 17 year old who is basically old enough to hold a job and take care of himself. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by chewy on Nov 27th, 2007, 9:35pm Frued himself would run in terror if he read ch.com message boards. This thread smells funny. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Annette on Nov 27th, 2007, 9:53pm He is not here Chewy, he cant read this. He doesnt have access to the computer nor my study. I think I am going to ring my solicitor again to ask him about legal obligation and I am going to ring a colleague who has experience with child psychology and get their advices. I will go with what they suggest. In the meantime, your opinions have driven home to me that this is really bigger than I can handle and I should be doing what is right based on the laws, not what I believe personally, as hard as it may be. I am glad that I had not chosen to act as his doctor. This has made things a lot easier for me. Hopefully Daniel would have managed to persuade him to agree to us calling his dad. Ultimately its his dad's responsibility to care and to protect his children. I will just be a good friend and support his dad in any way I can but I should really be out of the picture. Thanks everyone for your input. It has helped me see things more clearly from a more independent angle. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by MR_FLOOR on Nov 27th, 2007, 11:52pm on 11/27/07 at 16:55:00, vietvet2tours wrote:
Whats that supposed to mean,should she not help a family friend,and what about the young ones. Sorry Potter you lost me on that one. Dave |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by nani on Nov 27th, 2007, 11:54pm on 11/27/07 at 21:35:50, chewy wrote:
Yes, it does. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Annette on Nov 28th, 2007, 3:02am Sorry Nani and Chewy, thats my dirty feet ! How bad of me, I will go wash them now. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by BarbaraD on Nov 28th, 2007, 7:25am My heart goes out to you Annette. The father definitely needs to know what's going on, but I'm not sure you're the one to tell him. The younger kids need to come out of that enviroment. You might try stressing this to the boy and let it be his idea to let the authorities know so they'll remove the kids. Let him make the call to the authorities. You might also try "explaining" that he needs to see another doctor because he lives with you and you're his "surgoate" mother now and you can't treat "family" members, but that you'll go with him to see another doctor. But something needs to be done soon cause he needs to get back in school. Hugs BD |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by dougW on Nov 28th, 2007, 8:41am Sad story. When you need advice regarding a clinical situation, look not on a message board, but to your professional governing body, in this case the RACGP. http://www.racgp.org.au/Content/NavigationMenu/Publications/AustralianFamilyPhys/2005Issues/SeptemberGrowth/200509bird.htm This is the article in pdf format: http://www.racgp.org.au/Content/NavigationMenu/Publications/AustralianFamilyPhys/2005Issues/SeptemberGrowth/200509bird.pdf Note this from that page: "The legislative requirements for mandatory reporting vary from state to state and are summarised in the Table 1. If a GP is uncertain from a clinical point of view about whether or not to report, they should contact the local child protection unit or a paediatrician for advice." Not simple, but there is your answer. Call the local child protection unit. Regards Doug Wright |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by chewy on Nov 28th, 2007, 9:01am on 11/28/07 at 03:02:23, Annette wrote:
Its not your feet. Its the storyline. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by vietvet2tours on Nov 28th, 2007, 9:49am on 11/27/07 at 23:52:14, MR_FLOOR wrote:
English your first language? Potter |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by midwestbeth on Nov 28th, 2007, 11:30am Annette, I am around kids this age everyday. Something does not sound right. I think you are being manipulated by a troubled kid. I would call the athorities and the kids father and end all involvement at that point. Beth |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Annette on Nov 28th, 2007, 4:47pm on 11/28/07 at 08:41:22, dougW wrote:
Thanks Doug, but this isnt a clinical situation. Had he come to see me at the surgery I would have no choice but to act as his GP and I wouldnt need advices, I know what to do. He came to see me at home as a friend of his parents and since I decided not to start treating him medically it remains a domestic situation. Therefore I sought the advices of my solicitor and a colleague who is a child psychologist to make sure I was doing everything right legally. What I was asking here was peoples opinions as to what they would do if in a similar situation. It was very helpful as well as interesting to hear different views. We have the best outcome here in the end. BBZ was spot on with his advices, thanks John. Once the boy was allowed to settle and was assured that he and his sibblings will be taken care of properly, that he has us to come to anytime for anything, he relaxed and listened to suggestions. He was just too frighten before. He agreed to us calling his dad and to go see another GP for check up. His father was very relieved that I called him before reporting to DOCS. He is coming to pick all 3 children up and taking them back to his place for now while trying to sort out the problems with his ex wife. I told him I would help him in any way I can but I will leave the decision making up to him. He was very grateful for that. I am glad I didnt rush anything. I felt that calling the authority immediately could have caused more trauma to the boy. Maybe this is why many abused children and even adults hesitate to ask for help, they are worried that they could be judged and not believed or accepted? Thank you all for your opinions, all was appreciated. :) |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by nani on Nov 28th, 2007, 4:51pm So, did you report the abuse to Child Protective Services, or not? |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Rosybabe on Nov 28th, 2007, 4:52pm I am happy this situation had a resonable ending, maybe not a happy one, that will come with time but now the father has to step up and watch over his kids. You did good Annette :-* Rosy. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Emily on Nov 28th, 2007, 5:04pm Annette, You really are amazing to react in such a calm and professional manner (even though you may not have felt that way). I am slightly troubled by people suggesting that he is manipulating and it can't be classed as 'rape' because he is 17 and can consent. Not having been subjected to abuse myself (thank god), but the friend of 2 girls who have been (one as a child and one as an adult), it's shocking to say that just because he's grown up and can consent that it's not rape! At 17, the hormones and usual teenage confusion is bad enough for those of us lucky enough to grow up in stable family homes, let alone in an environment in which Annette is describing. He may well be a troubled teen, but if his story is true, are any of us really surprised? Subjected to enotional and physical abuse, he went to someone he thought he could trust. If that was then abused, whether he was 17 or 47, it still isn't right. Even if he wasn't abused and there are other issues, such as personality disorders, this is clearly a cry for help and CANNOT be ignored. When people don't get help, they can become a danger to themselves and members of the public. This couldn't have been ignored. I only hope that I can react with integrity and compassion like you Annette, should I ever have to deal with something on this level. Em x |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Jonny on Nov 28th, 2007, 5:13pm on 11/28/07 at 16:51:26, nani wrote:
on 11/28/07 at 16:47:21, Annette wrote:
Black and white to me....LOL ;) |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by nani on Nov 28th, 2007, 5:16pm It doesn't say she reported it. That's what I'm asking. My understanding is that she is in the same position that any of us here in the US is in. She is legally obligated to report it. Leaving it up to the Dad isn't reporting it. So...my question is still grey and still stands. :P |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Jonny on Nov 28th, 2007, 5:23pm on 11/28/07 at 17:16:09, nani wrote:
So? |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by nani on Nov 28th, 2007, 5:25pm on 11/28/07 at 17:23:03, Jonny wrote:
Um...I'm not asking you. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Jonny on Nov 28th, 2007, 5:36pm on 11/28/07 at 17:25:32, nani wrote:
In other words your having trouble reading Annettes post? Man, you four never give up do you? Edit to add: How come only four of you are out for her? Check link! http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=general;action=display;num=1195929590 |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by nani on Nov 28th, 2007, 5:40pm Four? I just looked all around the room...and it's just me. Do I ever give up? No. Not when there are people here that I really care about (including you). Besides... what's so hard about a yes or no answer? |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Jonny on Nov 28th, 2007, 5:44pm Gang of four and you know what im talking about. ;;D Yes or no?.....depends on if the viagara is working. ;) |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by nani on Nov 28th, 2007, 5:46pm :-* butthead ;) |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Jonny on Nov 28th, 2007, 5:52pm It beats dickhead. ;;D :-* |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by purpleydog on Nov 28th, 2007, 6:10pm And on and on and on the Of course she hasn't called Child Protective Services. This thread is a vain attempt to get our attention, and for Annette to show the world (the people at CH.com) how she has saved another person. If this was for real, she wouldn't have posted looking for our OPINIONS on what we would do if we were Annette. She would have done what was required by law to do, and be done with it. This thread is bullcrap. If the kids were being abused, hell Annette, what would you have done if one of them had gotten beat to death, while you posted on a message board, getting peoples opinions? That would be one hell of a liability suit for you. Because you didn't do your job. I can see you take your responsibility as a doctor seriously. ::) |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Jonny on Nov 28th, 2007, 6:17pm NICE....here comes the second of the four.....you guys make the rest of us laugh at how much you attack this woman.....its to funny....LOL ;;D Heres how 95% of us feel. ;) http://www.clusterheadaches.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=general;action=display;num=1195929590 Edit to add: Tell Bob to come do his dirty work because the dirt was splashed on his face a long time ago.....Fuckin wannabes... ;) |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by artonio7 on Nov 28th, 2007, 6:26pm Once again Annette you have shown that you are a caring, responsible and upstanding human. Thank you for being the kick ass kind of friend that you are, and the type of human that many of us aspire to be..... YOU ROCK!!!!!! with warm regards, Tony |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Jackie on Nov 28th, 2007, 6:28pm on 11/27/07 at 21:35:50, chewy wrote:
I hate to admit to such but......Gotta agree with 'the chew' on this one.... :) I find it strange that a doctor, any doctor, would be asking for an opinion.....Hell, they all think they know it all... ;;D Jackie Oh....95% might be a tad bit high..... |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Lizzie2 on Nov 28th, 2007, 6:32pm on 11/28/07 at 18:28:02, Jackie wrote:
You said it well.... |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by purpleydog on Nov 28th, 2007, 6:42pm on 11/28/07 at 18:28:02, Jackie wrote:
[smiley=crackup.gif] Jackie, you're a pretty good straight man for a woman. ;) Edit to add: What, did you take a poll of the people on that thread, Jonny? Because that sure as hell isn't 95% of the people on this board who post or read regularly. Methinks you need a course in mathamatics. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by fubar on Nov 28th, 2007, 6:52pm on 11/28/07 at 18:10:57, purpleydog wrote:
A bit harsh, don't you think? Even if it's all BS, what is to be gained by attacking her? It's like eating rat poison and expecting the rat to die. I'll never understand why people get so offended about stuff that doesn't affect them in any way whatsoever. ...and if you *are* affected* so much, *you* have issues. Think about it... are you offended because the story is fake, or are you offended because the kids aren't getting proper care? It can't be both, yet you attack her on both issues. Attacking trolls, I understand. Attacking Annette? Go do some breathing exercises or meditation. You'll live longer. The Fu has spoken. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by vietvet2tours on Nov 28th, 2007, 6:53pm on 11/28/07 at 18:42:52, purpleydog wrote:
Actually under a dozen. Potter |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Jonny on Nov 28th, 2007, 7:00pm on 11/28/07 at 18:52:57, fubar wrote:
Fubar......LMMFAO! ;;D [smiley=laugh.gif] So true! |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by nani on Nov 28th, 2007, 7:10pm on 11/28/07 at 18:52:57, fubar wrote:
Under most circumstances, I agree with you. In this case...I absolutely don't. First of all, I am accused of attacking at times when I am simply asking for clarification. Giving bad advice or incorrect information to people who are suffering definitely affects me, in that I care deeply about those people. Does this mean Annette is always wrong? No. But when I think she is, I'm gonna say so. Splitting up these long, deep friendships that we have here affects me, too. I think Annette would prefer we all worship the ground she walks on, but in lieu of that, she's happy to have her camp of defenders. I think there is likely a side to her that really enjoys all this attention. If nothing dramatic has happened in a while that requires us to praise/sympathize/lavish her with compliments...suddenly there's a new "situation" where she's the heroine. I think she makes these things up and it affects me because of the good, trusting people she is trying to fool/use. This of course, is MHO. But you wanted to know how it affects me and I felt obliged to tell you. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Jonny on Nov 28th, 2007, 7:18pm Com'on pinkfloyd, why send your clusterbuster friends to bust Annettets balls because she made you look like a fucking fool. on 11/28/07 at 19:10:18, nani wrote:
Thats the biggest joke I have heard in years.....LOL ;;D You just hate her for making Pink an ass.hole....and thats it! Why else would the "Gang of four" keep attacking her? |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by nani on Nov 28th, 2007, 7:22pm Jonny, please show me quotes where I've attacked her. Do you think so little of me, after all this time, where I would behave in the way you are suggesting? Sorry, bro... it's not my thing. I call bullshit when I see it, though. This is between you and I, more so between myself and Annette... why the need to drag others into it? |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by purpleydog on Nov 28th, 2007, 7:24pm on 11/28/07 at 18:52:57, fubar wrote:
I'm not attacking her on either issue, Shawn. My issue is that a big long thread is started, because she doesn't know what to do (she says), and runs it for three days, getting opinions, when she knows exactly what actions should be taken, wastes mine and others time posting what we think to be helpful replies, and suddenly the story changes. You know, I never even thought the story was a fake. I just think it's interesting how long this thread has gone on, while she still seeks advice from Americans about what she should do in another country. But I'm not pissed. I'm sad for her. :'( Besides, when was the last time you told someone about a good deed you did for another person? |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Jonny on Nov 28th, 2007, 7:28pm on 11/28/07 at 19:22:31, nani wrote:
You show me where you had a problem with Annette before she made Pink....Bob look like a fucking fool? Can you? |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Jonny on Nov 28th, 2007, 7:36pm on 11/28/07 at 19:24:42, purpleydog wrote:
When you have to type that....we all know better, you are one of the four AGAIN! Edit to add: Most of can see through this shit. ;) |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by purpleydog on Nov 28th, 2007, 7:37pm on 11/28/07 at 19:10:18, nani wrote:
This is how I feel too. However, I don't feel obliged to tell you, I only do because nani put it so well. And it's too bad friendships are being broken up. The family has been divided, and it has still not recovered. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by nani on Nov 28th, 2007, 7:38pm I started paying attention to things she would post. I asked her opinion on my own health issues, and found she had misinformed me. You even saw my discussion with her on the alum board. I told her exactly what my issues were. And...the longer she's here... the more Bob looks like he was right. She may be a dr, she may still be practising (that was never confirmed), but she definitley has some psyche issues. Here is a post that spent a few hours on the Getting to Know Ya board. When no one replied to it, it was pulled. Do I think this person exists? Not a chance. BTW, charlottesveil is no longer a member. More need for praise... on 11/11/07 at 07:53:31, Charlottesveil wrote:
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Melissa on Nov 28th, 2007, 7:43pm Read this thread since it started and I hadn't replied to it because I felt it wasn't any of my business. Somethin don't feel right... Sorry. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by purpleydog on Nov 28th, 2007, 7:46pm on 11/28/07 at 19:28:40, Jonny wrote:
nani, please forgive me for entering into your business here. Jonny, what business is this of yours? "You SHOW me?" WTF does that mean? No one has to show you anything, Jonny, it's none of your business. Butt out or butt up. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by deltadarlin on Nov 28th, 2007, 7:49pm on 11/27/07 at 14:29:45, Annette wrote:
on 11/28/07 at 16:47:21, Annette wrote:
Which is which here? Your statements contradict each other. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Sean_C on Nov 28th, 2007, 8:03pm This thread bothered me all day, I'll be pissed if it was all fantasy. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by fubar on Nov 28th, 2007, 8:11pm Whatever is going on with Annette, real or not, I just don't see how or why anybody needs to be offended by her posts. Everybody has different needs here. Supporters need to feel needed... that's a big reason they end up as supporters. How does it help *anybody* *anywhere* to call BS, even if it is BS? It wastes your time? It steals attention away from your problems? What? For cryin' out loud! Friendships breaking up over this kind of crap? Get over yourselves. "Take what you need and leave the rest" <== good advice |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by nani on Nov 28th, 2007, 8:16pm Shawn, did you know that morphine makes you go chronic? That verapamil is a mental health drug? That's just 2 off the top of my head. Both on the meds board. Should a newbie take that and leave the rest? ::) I still love all my friends here, but they don't still love me, LOL. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by purpleydog on Nov 28th, 2007, 8:24pm on 11/28/07 at 20:11:54, fubar wrote:
Yer right Shawn, some people have different needs. And some have Munchausens. Wouldn't you prefer to see a sick person get help for their problem? I sure would. And believe me, there is plenty of BS on this board, not just on this thread, and I'm sure you've called people on it. Thanks for the opine though. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Linda_Howell on Nov 28th, 2007, 8:28pm BULL O.K. I've stayed out of this as long as I could.. I love you Nani, you are a good and caring friend to everyone here. I agree with you. . . Personality conflicts have nothing to do with this. When someone who says they're a doctor and people who are desperate.. believe what this person says and it's BAD advice, well then it behooves us to say...WTF?????? |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Jonny on Nov 28th, 2007, 8:34pm on 11/28/07 at 19:46:06, purpleydog wrote:
I rest my case! |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by JDH on Nov 28th, 2007, 8:43pm on 11/28/07 at 18:28:02, Jackie wrote:
Jackie has spoken, 'nuff said [smiley=bow.gif] on 11/28/07 at 19:38:40, nani wrote:
Yup |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Linda_Howell on Nov 28th, 2007, 8:46pm Yup on both counts JDH. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Maffumatt on Nov 28th, 2007, 8:57pm I disagree. I have seen nothing but kindness, compassion and respect from this woman. I can not believe the way you people have treated her from day one. If she said the sky was blue you would wait until night, point to the sky and say "Look ! She was Wrong ! See how important I am ! " If i was her, I would have left when the first bandwagon of hatcheteers came around. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by purpleydog on Nov 28th, 2007, 8:58pm Oh, and pregnant women don't get CH. And this one... You can't OD on Imitrex. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by E-Double on Nov 28th, 2007, 9:12pm on 11/28/07 at 19:43:20, Melissa wrote:
as a mandated reporter one must report regardless. it sucks that you may be in a situation but ultimatley one has to do what is right for the child. good on ya for Matt. not diggin this one though hun. good luck |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by brewcrew on Nov 28th, 2007, 9:16pm on 11/28/07 at 21:12:14, E-Double wrote:
Did you attend the L.L. Cool J. School of Linguistics? |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by purpleydog on Nov 28th, 2007, 9:18pm on 11/28/07 at 20:57:09, Maffumatt wrote:
Matt, there was not a gang trying to run her or anyone out. But when you state that you are indeed a medical professional, namely a doctor, an MD, then start trying to practice medicine on a message board, and practice it incorrectly by giving the wrong information on drugs in particular, and CH specifically, and new people are listening to her because she is a doctor, there is a big problem with that. It's ethically not right, any legit doc would tell people they can't give advice here because of liability issues. When the wrong info is given by a doctor who knows little of what they talk about, and someone ends up in the hospital, or worse... That is not right. We need to take care and monitor the safety of our members here. That's what we do when Ali comes around. He's a doc. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by nani on Nov 28th, 2007, 9:21pm on 11/28/07 at 20:57:09, Maffumatt wrote:
Wow. I never said she was not kind, compassionate or respectful. Matt, you know how much I love you. I'm happy that she has been there for you during this very difficult time. You need that kind of support right now. I just wish, and I wish this for you, that I was sure of her sincerity. I never said she was a bad person, I just think she is self serving. Which means I think she has been so wonderful to you so she can feel important to herself. You know, of course, that you, Pops, and the family will continue to be in my thoughts and prayers. I'm finished with this. All I did was ask a yes or no question. While Annette was still online. :-/ |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by purpleydog on Nov 28th, 2007, 9:30pm on 11/28/07 at 21:16:28, brewcrew wrote:
Surely you understand this Bill. ;) |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Sean_C on Nov 28th, 2007, 9:36pm on 11/28/07 at 21:21:33, nani wrote:
I agree, this thread isn't going anywhere. Thats what happens with threads like this, we canabolize. I think we need a group hug. [smiley=hug.gif] |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by chewy on Nov 28th, 2007, 9:38pm Quote:
Your a sick man Clancey. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Peppermint on Nov 28th, 2007, 9:41pm on 11/28/07 at 19:43:20, Melissa wrote:
Got to agree with Melo. And - a little misinformation can go a long, wrong, way. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by brewcrew on Nov 28th, 2007, 9:41pm on 11/28/07 at 21:30:45, purpleydog wrote:
Sorta, maybe, I guess. :-/ This thread has caused half of my grey matter to drain out my ear. By the end of the week I should be sitting comfortably in the corner contemplating my navel, not a care in the world. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Maffumatt on Nov 28th, 2007, 9:45pm on 11/28/07 at 21:21:33, nani wrote:
She hasn't been there for me. She has been there for my mom and my dad, and on several occasions. She has asked for nothing in return, nothing. She never publicized it, nor did she appreciate the fact that I did. Do me a favor and ask DJ why he keeps this site up. He will tell you the same thing he told me. He does it for self serving reasons. Helping others makes people feel good. That is self serving, at least she isn't tearing people down to make herself feel good. And Nani, you know how I feel about you, you too Chris. Which is why I am so confused here. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Sean_C on Nov 28th, 2007, 9:48pm on 11/28/07 at 21:38:42, chewy wrote:
LOL damn straight ;;D ;;D |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by chewy on Nov 28th, 2007, 9:54pm Quote:
I fixed the little slogan under your Avater for ya. Thank me later. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Linda_Howell on Nov 28th, 2007, 9:57pm Sean...instead of sheep I have some rreal cute pics of Koala bears. Let me know and I'll send you the link. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by purpleydog on Nov 28th, 2007, 9:59pm Sean_Clancey? I never woulda guessed! |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by chewy on Nov 28th, 2007, 10:01pm Quote:
Them little guys have enough social problems now you want to turn Sean loose on them? Linda get help! |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Sean_C on Nov 28th, 2007, 10:14pm on 11/28/07 at 21:54:55, chewy wrote:
ROTFLMMFAO you bastard LOL ;;D ;;D ;;D |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by chewy on Nov 28th, 2007, 10:17pm Quote:
When did you move to Cambridge? Pass me the Globe will ya? Just the sports section thanks. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Sean_C on Nov 28th, 2007, 10:17pm on 11/28/07 at 21:59:08, purpleydog wrote:
http://www.irishsurnames.com/coatsofarms/c/clancy.gif Chewy spells it in midget ;;D |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by purpleydog on Nov 28th, 2007, 10:20pm on 11/28/07 at 22:17:31, Sean_C wrote:
Ahhh, I see! I didn't realize the name, I recognize it's a family symbol(can't think of the word). Cool! (sorry about the midget) |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by chewy on Nov 28th, 2007, 10:20pm My clan lion is bigger than your clan lion. Size matters. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v388/bgull2/145_web.gif?t=1196306374 |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Annette on Nov 28th, 2007, 11:33pm Sorry! Didnt realise Nani wanted an answer. Yes, I did report anonymously about the 2 younger children and no I didnt report about the 17 years old. I reported the 2 younger children well before I contacted the father. I was going to report about the 17 years old too if the father wasnt going to do anything. However, since he was ready to take actions I left the rest up to him. I didnt start the thread because I didnt know what to do as a GP. I wasnt sure how best to proceed as a family friend because I had never been in a similar situation before. I chose to ask on this Board because I know there are many wise people here, some have had experiences with such cases, like LindaM and BBZ. I wanted to do it in a compassionate way, not just to cover my own back. I definitely did not want to draw attention to myself nor trying to advertise what good deeds I have done. If some people here choose to think that, its their choice. What one thinks reflects how ones is. However, we all have the right to believe in whatever we choose. I am not here to prove anything and I dont need to conform to anyones expectation but God. I am here because of the few wonderful friendships that I have made and I dont want to lose them. If it makes you feel better to voice anger and suspicions and whatever else you feel then please go ahead. I will decide when and how to respond if I see the need to do so. If I can respond with something positive I will, if not I wont. Thank you very much to Jonny, Matt, Fu and anyone else who have spoken up on my behalf. You all know that I have never asked you to but I really appreciate your kindness. However, may I publically ask you all here not to respond to flames thrown my way anymore, that way a little spark will not burn into a bush fire. Let whoever have doubts voice their doubts, let whoever have hatred voice their hatred, let whoever think I am wrong prove themselves right .... and let the rest of the members decide what they want to decide. I have only one person I need to answer to, and that is not anyone of you here. Peace and painfree wishes to you all. :-* |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by purpleydog on Nov 28th, 2007, 11:43pm ::) |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Annette on Nov 28th, 2007, 11:53pm :-* |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Annette on Nov 29th, 2007, 12:28am Just one more thing, to all the people who have taken their time and energy to reply to the thread, whatever your opinion was I appreciated them all and I also owe you this I SWEAR ON MY FATHERS GRAVE THAT THIS IS NOT A FANTASY AND I DID NOT POST THIS TO GAIN ATTENTION FOR MYSELF Thank you :-* |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by john_d on Nov 29th, 2007, 7:23am Listen, it was dumb of you to come on here and tell people on the board you were a doctor and then dispense advice. People get rode out on a rail here for giving bad advice even if they are not a doctor. But sense most folks here rely on doctors and look up to good ones, to hear a doctor giving bad advice is going to really get them upset. I am a computer scientist with years of experience, but I would not even think about trying to help someone without seeing their computer. I don't know the whole situation and they could take my advice wrong and really, really mess it up. I've actually seen that happen on this board. Besides that in computers everything has become specialized and I specialize in one aspect and just fiddle in the others. How much more so for a human body? Maybe you should ask your 'collegues' how wise it is to go on a medical board as a user and tell people you are a doctor and then give advice? |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by LindaM on Nov 29th, 2007, 7:44am Maybe if you would post a copy of your current medical license here, Annette, it would dispel any doubts as to whether or not you are a genuine MD. Since the license is public record, there should be no problem in posting it. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Charlotte on Nov 29th, 2007, 8:06am Hi, Linda. I haven't met you, but we have been through Annette credentials before, and they are not in question. She is not here in the role of a Dr. She is here as a supporter, and she's good. Been good to me. There is no reason for her to go through that, again. Charlotte |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by BarbaraD on Nov 29th, 2007, 8:28am on 11/29/07 at 07:44:53, LindaM wrote:
Now I'm getting into it -- This was done a LONG time ago -- I have a COPY of Annette's crenditials as does another person. One man on this board even called her hospital and "confirmed" that she worked there -- so let's not hear another damn word about her being a doctor -- that's been established. And what the hell is wrong with a person coming to this board with a problem - seems that a lot of us do. Helps clear out the old cobwebs of our thinking a lot of times. Lordy, my mama always said, "If you can't say something nice - shut the hell up!" She was a wise woman..... Hugs BD |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by artonio7 on Nov 29th, 2007, 9:01am What "qualifies" any of us to give out medical advice... all we can do is talk about our experience with CH and what has worked or not worked for us. I don't see a disclaimer on the bottom of EVERY post that states... "The content of this post is opinion and is not meant to be construed as medical fact. SEE A DOCTOR BEFORE TRYING ANY TREATMENT OR MEDICATION." I also have never seen in a public forum... people being asked to show their work credentials... is this going to be the standard practice for all of us who wish to post here? with warm regards, Tony |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by john_d on Nov 29th, 2007, 9:28am on 11/29/07 at 09:01:07, artonio7 wrote:
No qualifiers, but if we gave wrong information you can bet we would not get away with it. I know she's really a doctor, I am just suprised she wants to state it here. Those credentials are double-edged sword, on one hand it gains you respect, on the other it gains you enormously high expections. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by KingOfPain on Nov 29th, 2007, 9:38am http://i10.tinypic.com/7274mc9.jpg http://tinyurl.com/2cb66w |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by thebbz on Nov 29th, 2007, 2:25pm Holy crap I dropped my oar. :o OOps wrong thread. [smiley=laugh.gif] when in doubt whip it out. thebb |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by chewy on Nov 29th, 2007, 2:53pm Quote:
Then she needs to cease giving medical advice and opinions. Pretty simple. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by artonio7 on Nov 29th, 2007, 2:59pm on 11/29/07 at 14:53:45, chewy wrote:
I guess if that were the case... 87% of everyone else on the board should do the same. with warm regards, Not Doctor Tony |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by fubar on Nov 29th, 2007, 3:14pm Yeah, let's run off all the doctors. They shouldn't interfere in our club. God forbid. WTF? So, let me get this straight... if you're a doctor, you better not admit it, or you better not participate in discussions... How does this benefit anybody? Are you saying that people here are stupid enought to put 100% faith in a persona here that claims to be a doctor? If so, then those people need to be removed from the gene pool anyway. For fucks sake, people are smarter than that. All this attacking sure makes this site a lot less valuable... it has a chilling effect on participation, and doctors in particular are discouraged from dealing with our cranky lot. Go Team! Run away Annette, come back as a regular joe supporter. Maybe you'll be appreciated by the council, and you'll be permitted to participate. Wow. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by M.R. on Nov 29th, 2007, 3:26pm I blame Canada. First global warming....http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,313844,00.html now this. They should be forced to annex Detroit (and surrounding areas). That will teach 'em. We should invade them now. Mike P.S. And take their beer and store it somewhere safe. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by LeLimey on Nov 29th, 2007, 3:36pm When personal feelings are involved you need someone from the outside looking in. I give plenty of advice to others on all sorts of things but when I have a problem myself I become less confident of my own opinion because I'm aware how highly involved I am. It can make me too narrow minded to do that right thing and being aware of that in myself I will ask others for their opinions. I want the advice from others who can think straighter than me. If you don't like it when I do it ignore me! It seems to me that's exactly what happend here. Just because someone is a doctor, lawyer or indian chief it doesn't mean they are any different to anyone else when their own families and friends are involved. You need to be sure you are acting for the right reasons and not from an emotional standpoint. Simple as that. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Grandma_Sweet_Boy on Nov 29th, 2007, 4:11pm Quote:
Oh no, ya don't!!!!! We won't stand for that! ;;D |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by M.R. on Nov 29th, 2007, 4:15pm That's it....give us your beer....or ya get detroit..... [smiley=laugh.gif] Mike |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by BarbaraD on Nov 29th, 2007, 4:36pm on 11/29/07 at 15:36:46, LeLimey wrote:
Thank you Helen for saying that a lot nicer than I would have. We all need a "sounding board" ever now and again just to put our thinking straight. We ALL do it here at one time or another. Annette has already made a decision and done what she thinks is right so why don't we all go on to another subject and let this one die a natural death.... Hugs BD |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by john_d on Nov 29th, 2007, 4:37pm on 11/29/07 at 15:14:25, fubar wrote:
Did you get that from my post? I don't want to run anyone off, and I regret posting to this dumb thread, you simply can't post to it without dropping a bomb on somebody. My opinion is that it's dumb to post to a medical board and tell folks you are a doctor. Like I said, those credentials are a double-edged sword of respect and ridiculous expectations and that's why she gets so much flak. I can see how it came off and it was probably hurtful to post it, expecially after all the others. Frankly, there is nothing constructive to post to this general message board, period. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by brewcrew on Nov 29th, 2007, 4:39pm on 11/29/07 at 16:37:09, john_d wrote:
Mmmm-kay. ::) |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by M.R. on Nov 29th, 2007, 4:40pm "Annette has already made a decision and done what she thinks is right so why don't we all go on to another subject and let this one die a natural death.... " I'm tryin' for an unnatural death.....and Canada's beer Mike P.S. and to get rid of Detroit |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Annette on Nov 29th, 2007, 4:55pm Well, I am a bit confused here as to what some people are suggesting to be the right thing to do ? Are you saying that 1- If you join this board because you are either a sufferer or a supporter and you are not a doctor then its fine, you can say whatever you want, it will be taken the right way. You can give advices, opinions ..... anything. Its OK. 2- But if you are a doctor then either you dont tell anyone you are, or if you do, then you shouldnt give advices/opinions on anything to anyone at all, because whatever you say will be constituted as legal medical advices and thats bad ! When this Board was first set up there was a Dr Greg who was a member who had CH. There is even a section on "Ask Dr Greg " here. He hasnt been here for a long time, I wonder why. However, it seemed that when he was here he was welcomed and his "advices" were more than accepted. Why is that? Is that because he was a sufferer? If he was only a supporter, would you still "ask Dr Greg" ? So does that mean that if you are a doctor and a CHer then your opinions are welcomed but if you are a doctor but only a supporter then you should shut your mouth? Chewy said that since I am not here in the role of a doctor but a supporter I should never give any medical advice or opinion, does that apply to all supporters or just those who happen to be doctors? I read from everyone on the Board that one of the biggest wish is to educate as many doctors as possible about CH because most dont have a clue of what it is and as the result people with CH all over the world are suffering needlessly. However, if a doctor joins the Board and is willing to learn and to participate in various discussions then that is a bad ?? Or do you mean doctors should join and read the Board to learn as long as they dont ever speak up here? Other people are saying that I give bad advices and wrong information. Well, as you all know, I am learning just like any of you. If you want to help me and therefore help others then gently point out to me what I have said wrong, I would be grateful and would correct it if it is indeed wrong. Its ridiculous to say that because I make mistakes sometimes that I am either not a doctor or a bad one. Who here hasnt made mistake? On one hand some complain that doctors are idiots and need to be educated more, on the other hand the same ones expect that doctors should know everything and should never be wrong. Isnt that hypocrite? What I find irony is that if you are any Dick, Tom and Harry you can say whatever you want. I have seen relatively newbie here being told that if shroom doesnt work try LSD, without knowing anything about that persons medical background, it then turned out that the person wasnt even suffering from CH at the time! But that wasnt dangerous or even inappropriate ! I have also seen people here quoting someone that during a CH hit cranial blood vessels swell up to 20 times their normal size. If the normal average size is about 2mm then 20 times that will be 4 cms ! Twice the size of your thumb! How big will your head be ? But all of the above are fine, because they were not from a doctor and possibly most importantly not from a supporter. I have 22 doctors working with me in the medical centre and I have told and urged ALL of them to read this board to learn about CH and they all do. When I first told them about a chat forum on the topic, they all responded " chat room? we dont have time for that ! Most of the stuffs on chat room are rubbish, how can you learn medicine from a chatroom ? " but when I told them I am an active member here because my husband has CH and that I have learnt a lot from the board, more than from any other sources they got curious and they have all had a look. I wonder if and when they come across this thread what will they think? I am expecting some will come to tell me to " get the hell out of there, these people are not right, why do you subject yourself to this? " Some people here have said they gave the link of this website to their own GPs and neurologists. I wonder what those will think of the site as a whole and what sort of impression will they form on CHers. The impression I got here is that many CHers hate doctors, they think that most doctors are idiots, yet they want doctors to understand them and help them and treat them with respect. Well, I believe respect goes both ways. Another thing I dont understand is some people here seem to want to make rules for the site. Dont you think that shows disrespect to DeeJ? This is his personal website and he does with it as he pleases, if you dont like it then leave and dont come back please, to quote him exactly. He has never said that doctors shouldnt join the Board if they are either a sufferer or a supporter, he never said that anyone here who is a doctor is not allowed to give advices or opinions, he never said advices and opinions from any particular member here are to be taken any differently from others. If he thinks that me speaking here is a bad thing then he would have said it. So far, the only type of people he doesnt welcome here are people who come seeking/selling drugs, who advertise their wares to make money or those who personally abuse others. About a year ago, someone here started a thread attacking me personally, demanded that I posted my personal details and credentials just so that I could prove that I am indeed a doctor. That thread was deleted by DeeJ because he wouldnt tolerate that type of personal attack, so please dont start another one now. I am always mindful of what I post here and I always believe them to be correct to my best knowledge at the time, it doesnt mean I can never be wrong. If any of you think I am then just tap me on the shoulder and let me know, I will be more than grateful and I will endeavour to listen. However, I do not appreciate personal attack. I hope we can all put personal feelings aside and do what we are all here for, to learn and to get/give support to fellow CHers and their supporters. Back to rowing. Best wishes and painfree wishes to you all. :-* |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Annette on Nov 29th, 2007, 5:23pm on 11/29/07 at 16:37:09, john_d wrote:
John, you didnt seem to know the history. When I first came to this board I came as a supporter. My husband just started his very first CH cycle and although I diagnosed him I knew very little about the condition. So I came here asking a lot of questions and learned a lot about it. I didnt come here advertising that I was a doctor. I did get the impression on the Board that in general doctors arent liked here because so many have had bad experiences with doctors. I didnt tell anyone here that I was a doctor for a very long time. Eventually people befriended me and they asked me what work I do. I didnt want to lie so I told them. Once I tell one person the rest eventually know. Some people then asked me publically on the Board if I was, and they were suspicious whether I really was a doctor and why was I "hiding" that fact, was I here to "snoop" on someone? I decided then that I had nothing to hide and that I could see no problem with being a doctor whose husband has CH so I admitted to it openly. Little did I know it was a case of your damn if you do and your still damn if you dont, and it has continued that way ever since. You said that you are a computer specialist, if you get on an IT forum would you tell people that you are trained in computer? Would people then tell you that you are not allowed to post your opinions there because you shouldnt be "practising" there? I doubt it. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by chewy on Nov 29th, 2007, 5:32pm Quote:
Nope, thats not it at all. If your a Doc and your going to give professional advice to countless people on a message board then you need to be real sure your advice is sound. In many cases it has not been. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by purpleydog on Nov 29th, 2007, 5:43pm The story changes again. Annette, let me just explain one thing to you that you mentioned in your post, before slamming john_d. You say you are here to learn, and we all make mistakes. This is what's unforgivable: The fact that you are a doctor, and you are practicing medicine on this board. It's not the cluster info mistakes we have a problem with, it's the medical mistakes, especially when it comes to drugs, and their uses. You are clueless. Saying things like: You can't overdose on Imitrex, (wrong!!) verapamil is a psychiatric drug (way wrong), telling people using morphine will turn you chronic... (I don't know where that came from... it has not been shown that ANY drug will turn an episodic chronic). Asking John_d about being on an IT forum and posting about computers is comparing apples to oranges in your case. You aren't posting to a doctors message board, you are posting to a clusterheadache message board. Huge difference. Get it? Tell me something, Annette. Do you know the meaning of Munchausen's Syndrome and Munchausen's by Proxy? Do you know the meaning of Factitious Disorder? Do you know what the Factitious Disorders are? Why don't you Google it? |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by fubar on Nov 29th, 2007, 5:44pm At least you're consistent, Chewy. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by chewy on Nov 29th, 2007, 5:45pm About what ? |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Kirk on Nov 29th, 2007, 6:10pm on 11/29/07 at 16:15:25, M.R. wrote:
You actually want the Canadian's beer? You've got to be in some dire straights to want to drink their pale watered down excuse for beer. [smiley=smokin.gif] |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Annette on Nov 29th, 2007, 6:38pm Chris, So I was wrong on od on imitrex? the recommended dose is 2 injections per day, since then we have heard accounts of people using 7-8 per day as advised by their neurologists. Is 7-8 a day considered overdosing? Now there are new articles relaxing the rule on 2 a day because after the drugs have been out for a while, people realised that it is not that bad. BTW, knowledge of high dosage of imitrex is highly related to migraines and CH, its not general knowledge. How often does a GP have to prescribe such large quantity of imitrex injections if it isnt for CH? If a dr refuses to prescribe more than 2 a day because he/she is concerned that the patient will OD on more than 2, then that dr is an idiot and has no idea how to treat CH. But if a dr says that its OK to use more than 2 occasionally on a very bad day, then that doctor is also an idiot because he/she doesnt know anything about OD on Imitrex ! So what do you want? You want doctors to walk around telling everyone that more than 2 imitrex a day is OD but to be happy to prescribe whatever amount to a CHer, because all CHers know exactly what to do? So you think Verapamil has never been used as an adjunct to psych drugs because it has a relaxation effect on some people? Why dont you ask your psychiatrist if this is true or not? If you dont ask a psychiatrist and you cant prove that it has never been used that way then it doesnt mean that I was wrong. I read it here that a CHer strongly believed that taking morphine long term was what caused him to go chronic. Someone's wife read that post also and was furious that her husband's doctor wasnt aware of that. She said the doctor was an idiot because he didnt tell them that there is a possibility that some meds can prolong a cycle and maybe even make them go chronic. She said had he told her that he heard someone even just one person with CH believed that he had gone chronic because of narcotics then she should be told, because she then wouldnt let her husband touch that stuff. Now he seemed to have a really long cycle and she worried that he was going chronic and that would be the doctors fault! That wasnt general knowledge either, that is very highly CH related. However, I never said it would for sure, I said at the time that it might. On one hand you are urging doctors to learn from direct patients experiences because its their bodies and they know what works and what dont work more than any doctor can ever know. However, you are also demanding quotes from medical sources such as clinical trials to prove any point I make. We all know due to the rareness of the condition, there isnt that many clinical trials there on every nitty gritty little thing. You are all expecting doctors who havent come across clinical trials on the use of 100% oxgyen, to read print outs from here and to go ahead and prescribe. If that doctor refuses to then that doctor is an idiot. Yet when a doctor quotes someone's personal experience here as a possible outcome then that doctor is expected to back it up with clinical trials, if she cant then she is also an idiot! You also think that I have Munchauson Syndrome? then I think you have Schizophrenia with major Paranoia. Which one of us is wrong? who knows .... At it stands now, we are both potentially correct. So what? I remembered someone here posted that because I use Google to find information, that means I am not a doctor. Doctors dont use Google ! What a laugh ! I never commented on it because it would show how ignorant that statement is. All doctors use Google to find information that are rare or difficult to find. Each type of doctors have allocated access to their own specialty site, for which they have to pay a membership fee for. I have access to GP sites where I can find anything and almost everything that has to do with a GP work there. A neurologist has access to their own site on neurology stuff. If I want to search for stuff on neurology on these specialised sites, then I will have to pay an annual membership fee to gain access. These fees are not cheap, they are anything upwards of US$700 per year. I dont get tax rebate on that either because its not directly related to my work. I actually did join one last year but to my dismay, since there isnt that many articles on CH, I only found a few in there which werent even helpful. I wasted $700 and I wasnt going to do that again. I then learnt that since CH is so diverse and it involves so many different faculties, from neurology to psychiatry to biochemistry to pharmacology ... CH related articles are everywhere but there might be only 1 or 2 in any given year, most arent even useful. So am I going to pay thousands of dollars to join all of those specialised sites? No way. The smart way to do it is to Google it first, then if something interesting come up then I will consider buying that particular article for much lower price, mostly US$45 per article. Apart from that I go to the medical libraries and do searches there. However, since I have a family and I work fulltime, I dont often have time to go to the libraries. The thing is all of the most recent articles are copy righted ie I cant post it on a public board. I have many in my reservoir here but I had to keep them to myself because I cant break the laws. The only ones that I can post here for all to see is the free ones, since they are free, anyone can access them using Google. Do all or any of the above explain that I am either not a doctor or am I an idiot of one? You are all free to judge for yourself. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Annette on Nov 29th, 2007, 6:59pm Chewy, first you said on 11/29/07 at 14:53:45, chewy wrote:
Then you said on 11/29/07 at 17:32:55, chewy wrote:
Please tell me what is the difference between "professional" medical advices and "normal" medical advices? When does an advice/opinion on a medical matter switched from being "normal" to "professional"? Are you saying that if the person gives his/her advice/opinion on a medical matter as a lay person that is a "normal" advice, and it doesnt matter whether its inaccurate or not? but if the same advice comes from a doctor then it becomes a "professional" advice? There are people here who are nurses and physiotherapists and social workers and policemen .... does that mean their advices would also become "professional" advices and therefore they should also stop giving that here? By laws, a doctor is only giving professional advices if that advices are to be given in his/her work environment. If you come to see me in my surgery as a patient and I give you an advice then it becomes professional and I can get sued for getting it wrong. I have professional indemnity insurance for that. However, if my neighbour stops me on my driveway in my PJ and asks me what do I think of that mole on her hand then whatever I tell her cant be instituted as professional advices. If she wants to take it seriously then that is her choice, if she thinks what I says is a load of ... then that is her choice too. Whichever way she is totally responsible for her own decision. She cant take me to court if it turns out to be wrong. The case wont even get heard. She will only be told that its her own fault for being so ignorant. I dont think anyone here is that ignorant. Having said that, I have always taken every caution to be as accurate as possible in everything I have posted here. Can you quote me somewhere giving advices that turn out to be totally inaccurate, irresponsible or harmful? |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Annette on Nov 29th, 2007, 7:15pm on 11/29/07 at 17:43:46, purpleydog wrote:
I wasnt slamming John, stop interpreting things in ways that add oils to a flame. I simply answered his comment as to why I admitted to being a doctor here. John himself calls this a medical board. Clusterheadaches is a medical condition, people discuss quite serious medical matters here everyday. Edited to add: John called me dumb twice for admitting here that I am a doctor, you didnt have a problem with that, but as soon as I answered him and asked him a question, in a very polite manner, then I was "slammimg" him ! How fair is that? |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by vietvet2tours on Nov 29th, 2007, 7:22pm Let's cut to the chase here You're Dr.Annette(insert name)M.D. and you work at (insert name)medical center.Hows bout ya fill in the blanks.I was under the impression that Doctor became your first name once ya got that piece of paper.So why not sign as Doctor Annette.....? Potter |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by fubar on Nov 29th, 2007, 7:50pm on 11/29/07 at 17:45:40, chewy wrote:
Impervious to reason. |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Annette on Nov 29th, 2007, 8:03pm on 11/29/07 at 19:22:53, vietvet2tours wrote:
That is the weirdest thing I have ever heard ! I sign as anything I please here. How many times do I have to state that I am here as a supporter and not as a doctor? This is not my work place. Does that mean that everyone who has a title should sign themselves as such here? Does that mean DeeJ should sign himself as whatever rank he is in? The same goes for Guiseppi ? If you have a PhD in whatever faculty and earned the doctor title, once you join here you should sign yourself as doctor too? Heck, many people here dont even sign their real names. Is that wrong too? |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Ree on Nov 29th, 2007, 8:06pm I came in late and have to catch up on this board... I am very happy that Annette is here... doctor or not... and I worry about her giving advice for her own sake... BECAUSE she is a doctor and should cover herself so that someone doesn't hold her accountable for what she says... just incase... The rest of us give advice all the time, but could not be held accountable... but could Annette if someone got sick, hurt or was just an ass and wanted to sue someone???? Take care out there annette... people are just looking for a reason to sue someone... Curious. What kind of a doctor are you Annette...? Ree |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Charlie on Nov 29th, 2007, 8:22pm http://www.netsync.net/users/charlies/gifs/tic tac.gif Charlie |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by vietvet2tours on Nov 29th, 2007, 8:33pm on 11/29/07 at 20:03:33, Annette wrote:
She doth protest too much. Potter |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Jonny on Nov 29th, 2007, 8:38pm This is really getting fucking old....dont ya think? |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Annette on Nov 29th, 2007, 8:40pm Thanks Ree for you kind words ! I am a GP, also known as family doctor or primary care doctor. Thanks for your concern but I am fine. As I explained above, unless people come to see me in my surgery as a patient, or I formally have an agreement with someone that I am now their doctor and I am treating them as a patient and I do so with their consent, then whatever I say cant be taken as professional advices. DeeJ has a disclaimer on the home page of the website. It actually covers everything that is posted here by anyone and everyone. If DeeJ thinks that me being here giving advices is a bad or risky thing, do you believe he would allow it to go on? If someone goes to Court saying that " I suffered this and that because I listened to an advice given on a message board by someone I have never met who said she was a doctor , now I want to sue her ", do you think that person will be taken seriously? |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Annette on Nov 29th, 2007, 8:46pm on 11/29/07 at 20:33:19, vietvet2tours wrote:
LOL ! So if I dont argue back then I am a coward and not an adult who can take care of myself, if I answered back and asked a question then I am slamming someone, if I give my opinions then I am practising medicine, if people come here posting their own views on the matter then I have dragged my "defenders" in to divide the board, if people agree with me then I am splitting up deep friendships, if I post a joke then its not funny, if I try to help someone then I am self serving and drawing attention to myself, if I disagree with a suggestion then I protest too much .... [smiley=laugh.gif] Sorry, this is making me laugh ! |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Jonny on Nov 29th, 2007, 8:48pm Ok, here goes....im about to save you people! Annette and all of you STFU! The last time this happened DJ completely shut this website down for a whole weekend. If he reads this thread he may decide to shut the fucker down again and someone that needs help wont get it, due to this petty bickering! God damn it.....STFU! Feel free to keep posting if you want to risk this site being shut down. ASS.HOLES! |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by cash5542 on Nov 29th, 2007, 9:49pm I have refrained from posting but as someone fairly new to this board yet old enough to see the value I wish this would stop. I came to all of you LOST and listened to your various opinions. Sometimes your advice was more acurate then Lisa's doctors were. Sometimes it wasn't. We explored all of the options and made our own decisons, regardless of who it came from. Please don't let this get shut down. This board needs to be here especially for the new people who are looking for comfort and advice. Charlotte |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by john_d on Nov 29th, 2007, 9:55pm on 11/29/07 at 16:39:58, brewcrew wrote:
Brew, There's plenty of quality, thoughtful posts on the general message board, I was just annoyed. I don't think you're dumb Annette and I don't fault you for your response to me. Peace |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by rolo65 on Nov 29th, 2007, 9:56pm This thread started on a warm note and morphed into a personal attack fest! WTF? [smiley=referee.gif] PS: be thankful that you are not stuck on the O2 and have time to waste on attacking and defending your positions. Helpful = good and destructive = bad! :( |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by artonio7 on Nov 29th, 2007, 10:07pm on 11/29/07 at 21:56:58, rolo65 wrote:
this thread is making my nipples raw... and not in the warm fuzzy way that i enjoy. with warm regards, tony |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Jonny on Nov 29th, 2007, 10:15pm What dont you people get? The site will be down if you fucks keep posting to this thread, are you fucking retarded? Thats the last I have to say! |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by Donna_D. on Nov 30th, 2007, 2:03am I think this thread needs a warm, fuzzy end that will make everyone smile. http://newmedia.funnyjunk.com/pictures/happyhairyass.jpg [smiley=laugh.gif] DD Thread Hijack in progress |
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Title: Re: Your opinion please-to help a 17 yrs old boy Post by purpleydog on Nov 30th, 2007, 4:51pm And the attention getting just won't stop. Twist it all, Annette, and keep on posting. Seems to me you've got all the attention you need to last for at least a week now. |
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